15levels Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Sassun, I listened to the whole speech from the first to the last word. If you managed to see a connection butween his words and the incident you claim to be a crashed f16 then you have a whild imagination. Time will answer the question if there was indeed a aircraft crash over Lebanon, which is also a possiblity of a technical malfunction. I saw the same footage you saw, and see no trace of a rocket nor any pieces of the large aircraft crumbling down. There was just a ball of fire, quite possible when lots of paper burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
15levels Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Here is quote from Haaretz: "The Israel Defense Forces on Monday said it believed Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon attempted to fire an Iranian-made missile with a range of 200 km at Israel which malfunctioned and fell onto Lebanese territory. The falling missile, described as a Zilzal, was the likely source of Lebanese reports that an Israel Defense Forces aircraft had been hit and brought down over Lebanon. The IDF denied that one of its aircraft had been downed over Lebanon, despite Lebanese media reports. "There was no such thing," a military source said. The IDF initially said the object seen being shot down on Hezbollah's Al Manar television station was a failed attempt to launch one of the Katyusha rockets that have battered Israel over the past six days. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 That was not the only "scene" from the F-16, we saw more of it, and we saw it on local TV not on Al-Jazeera or Al Manar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Man, the IDF must be really losing it. There is no HezbAllah in Wadi Kfarshima....................... it is not HezbAllah area............................. it's Christian area.... The area was a military area that was closed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
15levels Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 That was not the only "scene" from the F-16, we saw more of it, and we saw it on local TV not on Al-Jazeera or Al Manar. Watch Al-Jazzeera, they will explain to you that the fireball in the sky is a piece of ZilZal Iranian rocket which was hit on the ground by aircraft fire. There is a footage of the remains of that rocket, not israeli aircraft. Besides, its quite obvious if it was Israeli aircraft by now we would see pieces of it on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 I repeat, the area is Christian area and has absolutely NO HezbAllah presence, let alone Zilzal rockets!!! The area is under Lebanese Army control. Which also explains why we have not seen these pieces. The Army - as the official military representative of the Lebanese people- does not wish to get involved in this war. Especially not in terms of propaganda. Because it could only worsen the situation for the Lebanese people. It cannot risk such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 By the way, I do not wish to argue with you anymore. You seem to have taken on Jewish and Israeli traits of self-righteousness and moral high ground. We will see what your attitude will be 10 days from now when the Jews will come down on their knees and beg for unconditional ceasefire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 10 days ?? beg for unconditional ceasefire i just don;t see how this can happen 10 days it is - lets see haw this will work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 I repeat, the area is Christian area and has absolutely NO HezbAllah presence, let alone Zilzal rockets!!! If so, then how did Hezballah shoot that plane down? Or was it the Lebanese army that saw the plane and shot it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verginne Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 mr. 15 levels, what is your purpose here other than to give the unwanted israel version of events, i.e., lies??????? Are you even Armenian? Sure thing, yahoodistan denies the plane was shot down. Just like they denied shooting the Armenian monk. PUHLLLEEEEEEZZZZZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 mr. 15 levels, what is your purpose here other than to give the unwanted israel version of events, i.e., lies??????? Are you even Armenian? Sure thing, yahoodistan denies the plane was shot down. Just like they denied shooting the Armenian monk. PUHLLLEEEEEEZZZZZ. Cut it out Verginne Don't be a jerk. We have an excellent opportunity to see things from the eyes of Armenians on both sides of the conflict. Let's not let it get personal - neither of you (Ruben or Sassun) are personally responsible for any of these actions, so let's tone it down and try to remain as objective as the situation will allow. No accusations or insults please. I appreciate both perspectives, and I wish you both safety for yourselves and your families... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakachik77 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) By the way, I do not wish to argue with you anymore. You seem to have taken on Jewish and Israeli traits of self-righteousness and moral high ground. We will see what your attitude will be 10 days from now when the Jews will come down on their knees and beg for unconditional ceasefire. Sassun, the same way by living in Lebanon for 3-4 generation you have become 150% Lebanese, why do you think you care so hard, it is your land that's being bombed. I am an Armenian from Armenia and don't give a damn if Lebanon is leveled to nothing tomorrow, I really don't, I hope you got the point. Edited July 17, 2006 by kakachik77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skhara Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Hezbollah didn't just go and pick a random fight they couldn't win. They knew exactly what they were doing. In this conflict they are the meticulous and "cool-headed" force. Their rocket attacks against Israel are meticulous in nature and gradualy reach further into Israel. If you read the reports, you'll see that their attacks come off as responses to IDF targetting of civilians. Oh gams, Hezbolah aren't terrorists. And if they are "terrorists", then they are as terroristic as any other army. And Lebanese aren't Arabs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verginne Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Hezbollah, so far already, has done far better than Sadaam Hussein ever did during the first Gulf War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 If so, then how did Hezballah shoot that plane down? Or was it the Lebanese army that saw the plane and shot it? It was the Lebanese Army. Operations HQ in Meron and Command HQ in Safed hit. Haifa hit again. Safed hit again. Israel attempts to invade Lebanon at numerous locations but HezbAllah fighters push them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
15levels Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 mr. 15 levels, what is your purpose here other than to give the unwanted israel version of events, i.e., lies??????? Are you even Armenian? Sure thing, yahoodistan denies the plane was shot down. Just like they denied shooting the Armenian monk. PUHLLLEEEEEEZZZZZ. If being Armenian means kissing Arab ass, then I guess I am not. Search my name on Google, see what comes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
15levels Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 It was the Lebanese Army. Operations HQ in Meron and Command HQ in Safed hit. Haifa hit again. Safed hit again. Israel attempts to invade Lebanon at numerous locations but HezbAllah fighters push them back. This thread slowly turns into Hizballah fan club and I have no interest in joining this empty polemic. If what I say is "israeli unwanted version of events . i.e. lies", then I guess you'll have to continue cheering for Nasrallah without my participation. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 As soon as a group begins attacking civilians, in my mind they are terrorrists. The IDF are terrorists, as are Hesbollah. Neither side has any moral ground in this war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 This thread slowly turns into Hizballah fan club and I have no interest in joining this empty polemic. If what I say is "israeli unwanted version of events . i.e. lies", then I guess you'll have to continue cheering for Nasrallah without my participation. Have fun. Ruben, please don't take the words of one hot-head so seriously. Vergin's political viewpoint is notorious and as a result has been the recipient of several warnings. Within any discussion you'll have those leaning towards one side or another - what's important here is that everyone realises that what is happening on the ground (or air fopr that matter) has nothing to do with the personalities on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Jamhour power station hit, as are army barracks near the area. All of Beirut is in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skhara Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Hezbollah actually doesn't have a history of targetting civilians. In the past, they fired Katushas on IDF military outposts. Right now they fire on Israeli cities -- but this is a perfectly legitimate response. They can't force a ceasefire without destroying the Israeli sense of security. The more they can make Jews suffer, the more they would be more inclined to tone down their demands for their ceasefire. I just saw Israeli ambassador to the US saying that it is "out of the question" that they would return Lebanese hostages in exchange for the IDF soldiers. So Hezbolah is perfectly correct in keeping the POWs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakachik77 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 If being Armenian means kissing Arab ass, then I guess I am not. Search my name on Google, see what comes up. 15 levels, you are dealin with a small group of lebanese armenians, the important word here is lebanese, obviously this is going to be there response, they are arabacized and don't even yet know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 15 levels, you are dealin with a small group of lebanese armenians, the important word here is lebanese, obviously this is going to be there response, they are arabacized and don't even yet know it. No it won't, I am(was) a Lebanese Armenian too, and during my young years, I did witness what those so-called hero's were up too. The civil war forced a large part of the intellectuals and moderates to leave Lebanon, and Lebanon is becoming more and more radicalised. One of my families there who we have contacted didn't even botherof the attacks, they are habituated on water cuts, electricity cuts. That person replied: "H@ryan kidé our bidi zarné." It is obvious that the news coverages in Lebanon and the West are both biased on eachs side. My opinion is the following. Both share the blame, no country, including Turkey, hit for no reason, regardless of if it is justified or not. And I repeat, they can eat whatever sh!t they want, but lets do it OUTSIDE of Lebanon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurocentric Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 Personally I wouldn't lose any sleep if all Arabs and Jews were wiped off the face of the earth. I'm very apathetic when it comes to either. Politically I support both Lebanon and Hezbollah for the very simple reason that Israel is anti-Armenian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 17, 2006 Report Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) mr. 15 levels, what is your purpose here other than to give the unwanted israel version of events, i.e., lies??????? Verginne is talking for himself regarding the "unwanted" part. 15levels, first of all, stay safe but please do continue to keep us updated from your side. For me, I think it's very valuable to have both Sassun's version and yours. Otherwise, I would be very reluctant to "believe" either one by itself. Sassun, the staying safe wishes applies to you as well! Edited July 17, 2006 by Sip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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