War In The Middle East

[Verginne]

Nasrallah Will Give Tel Aviv Residents One Hour to Flee

Ma'an: Nasrallah Will Give Tel Aviv Residents One Hour to Flee

01:00 Jul 19, '06 / 23 Tammuz 5766

by Nissan Ratzlav-Katz

 

Arab press sources close to the Hizbullah say that residents of Tel Aviv will be given one hour to flee before the terrorist group launches a barrage of missiles at the city.

 

 

The unnamed sources are quoted by the Palestinian Authority-based news agency Ma'an as saying:

 

"The Lebanese resistance is preparing a retaliation parallel to Israel's military actions. Hassan Nasrallah will address the people of Tel Aviv and warn them to evacuate the city within one hour. As soon as the delay ends, hundreds of heavy missiles will start landing in the city, which has been divided into squares in order to let damage reach every inch of the city. An estimated 500 missiles are expected to land in Tel Aviv in a short period of time."

 

The Arab sources further said that the Hizbullah has been very careful in cultivating its public image, in order to increase the surprise effect of the planned barrage on Tel Aviv.

 

The war, from the perspective of Nasrallah, has not yet begun, the sources said, adding that other "surprises" planned by the Hizbullah include more kidnappings of Israeli soldiers from along the Lebanese border.

 

Also claiming to have "surprises" in store for Israel is the Gaza-based Islamic Jihad. On Tuesday night, the terrorist organization claimed to have fired a Katyusha rocket at Sderot. The Katyusha is a more deadly rocket than the Kassam, and is being deployed against Israel in the north of the country by the Hizbullah.

 

 

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=107746

[vava]

Amalekites

 

"Armenia is also sometimes called Amalek in some sources, and Jews often referred to Armenians as Amalekites. This is the Byzantine term for the Armenians. It was adopted by the Jews from the Josippon chronicle (tenth century, ch. 64)."

 

.......

 

 

"The Armenians are not Jews, and according to folk tradition the Armenians are nothing more than Amaleks!" Yair Auron. The Banality of Indifference: Zionism and the Armenian Genocide. P. 126.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Give it up vergine,

 

Despite whatever you try and copy-paste here, no one here is buying it.

So what if Yair Auron says that the jews traditional thought of Armenians as Amalekites - who cares?

 

Your entire (long) post was completely irrelevant here, plus, many of the links were not working.

I removed it.

[Verginne]

israel is an artificially created entity just like turkey and has no more right to exist than turkey, both were created on the blood and bones of

Christian people, Armenians for one.

 

 

ANY ARMENIAN SUPPORTING israel NEEDS A SERIOUS REALITY CHECK.

[vava]

ANY ARMENIAN SUPPORTING israel NEEDS A SERIOUS REALITY CHECK.

 

You're entitled to your opinion. I, for one, have a problem with "supporting" either side of the useless, god-forsaken war. The only victims here are the poor Lebanese civilians, who have somehow become the targets of the terrorists on BOTH sides.

[Verginne]

Give it up vergine,

 

Despite whatever you try and copy-paste here, no one here is buying it.

So what if Yair Auron says that the jews traditional thought of Armenians as Amalekites - who cares?

 

Your entire (long) post was completely irrelevant here, plus, many of the links were not working.

I removed it.

 

 

Nonsense and LIES. My post was a completely relevant reply to that post and I am not the one who brought up Amaleks but Armenians HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW that jews consider them

Amaleks. You cannot censor the truth forever.

[vava]

Nonsense and LIES. My post was a completely relevant reply to that post and I am not the one who brought up Amaleks but Armenians HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW that jews consider them

Amaleks. You cannot censor the truth forever.

 

Only some sources consider Armenians as Amelakites - regardless, whether it's true or not has little bearing. This stuff is thousands of years old, are you trying to tell me that a 'story' from the Old testament (in Deuteronomy, no less) is actually relevant to the conflict that's currently ongoing?

[kakachik77]

who are amaleks and who cares what someone else considers me

[skhara]

Only some sources consider Armenians as Amelakites - regardless, whether it's true or not has little bearing. This stuff is thousands of years old, are you trying to tell me that a 'story' from the Old testament (in Deuteronomy, no less) is actually relevant to the conflict that's currently ongoing?

 

vava,

 

Are you trying to tell us that its not? If that were the case, how do you explain the establishment of Zionist entity in Palestine at the expense of the native population of Christians, Muslims, Budhists, Agnostics, etc? How do you explain the fact that the zionist jews consider it their "prophetic return"?

 

Why not set this up somewhere where they couldn't bother anyone instead of uprooting millions of people and setting in motion all the misery for more than half a century now?

Edited July 19, 2006 by skhara

[kakachik77]

this nonesense has to stop, really. I understand the frastration of the Lebanese or Syrians of Armenian origin on this forum whose families are being bombed, nonetheless the Mid East is in this crisis because nobody wants to cool off their heads and think rationally, instead they are wrapped up in endless religious nonesense that supposedly and only supposedly dates back thousands of years ago. The example of Ameluks bs is yet another demonstration of this nonesense.

 

On the note about Israelis and Armenians. I worked in Israel this winter for a month and I'll tell you there are a lot of people who don't even know who Armenians are, much less associate them to some ancient tribe. In addition, Israel absorbed close to one million of former Soviet immigrants from various republics (as well as Armenia), so the Israeli culture has been russianized a lot, and these people know and love Armenians like their own. There are Armenian restaurants in Tel Aviv today, I'll attach a picture of one.

 

Why are Zionists doing what they are doing? Why is any extremist organization/party doing what they are doing?

 

I think that what Armenians need to worry about is how Israel through all the wars and destruction managed to build such a great economy while their own little country is suffering from corrupt government, a

D rated airport, kisakand apartment buildings, environmental degradation and outmigration rates that is simply unacceptable (and I am not blaming the people who are trying to feed their families, rather Armenians as a whole). Let's stop the inferiority complex, people and let's stick to our problems which is plenty.

Edited July 19, 2006 by kakachik77

[vava]

For the record, I was referring to the Amelekites story. As to the establishment of a jewish state, I ws under the impression that much of that came about as a result of bungled british colonialism of the era, culminating in the Balfour declaration in 1917- behind which were not just traditional Zionists like Herzl or Weissman, but Christian, and even anti-semetic european influencers as well. Why palestine? Well, I suppose it's because the British controlled it at the time.... as for the jews, I believe they would have accepted any state. But that's a moot point; would it have been any better had they been granted a state anywhere else? Cypress, for example? I don't think 'misery' can be avoided in these kinds of things, unfortunately.

 

Let's at least try and look to the future or be minimally pragmatic: Peace can only be achieved from within - it cannot be imposed by force, else it will merely be transient. The Palestinians and their allies must reign-in their extremist elements, and establish a true authority that not only has credibility amongst the people, but recognises that peace can only be accomplished through co-existance. The Isreali people in turn must also reign-in their extremist factions; they must demand their governement to make true concessions to Palestinian peoples - concessions that will allow Palestine to grow into and economically viable, self-sufficient nation. Properity will lead to moderation & long-term peace. This is the only path that has any chance of success - sure there'll be bumps, but both nations will have to walk that path together.

 

Granted, the above doesn't much concern Lebanon - apart from the interwined relations/objectives of the Hesbollah and Palestinian 'freedom fighters'.

Edited July 19, 2006 by vava

[vava]

this nonesense has to stop, really.

 

.....

 

Why are Zionists doing what they are doing? Why is any extremist organization/party doing what they are doing?

 

I think that what Armenians need to worry about is how Israel through all the wars and destruction managed to build such a great economy while their own little country is suffering from corrupt government, a

D rated airport, kisakand apartment buildings, environmental degradation and outmigration rates that is simply unacceptable (and I am not blaming the people who are trying to feed their families, rather Armenians as a whole). Let's stop the inferiority complex, people and let's stick to our problems which is plenty.

 

I am in thorough agreement.

[Eurocentric]

They also called the Greeks Amlekites. That was during the Ottoman period and Jews hated Armenians simply because we are smarter than them hence they didn't like the competition

 

We need to be more concerned about Israel's efforts to suppress Armenian Genocide recognition around the world. Remember only a few states in the world deny the Genocide, Israel and Turkey among them. The other states that don't recognize it, do not deny it either, Israel denies it and works along with Turkey against its recognition worldwide.

 

Need I mention AIPAC?

[Sassun]

How did this turn into a discussion of Amelekites?? And who cares about it??

[Dave]

Kakachik77,

 

Armenia is a young 14 year old republic and has no outlet to the sea, etc... Just give it some time.

 

Israel shouldn't be a role model though.

[Harut]

Kakachik77,

 

Armenia is a young 14 year old republic and has no outlet to the sea, etc... Just give it some time.

 

Israel shouldn't be a role model though.

 

off topic, but armenia is a mid-aged 88 year old republic...

[Eurocentric]

off topic, but armenia is a mid-aged 88 year old republic...

 

That doesn't count legally or realistically.

[Dave]

If you're talking about the first republic, then yes.

[hytga]

Turkey 'drawing up plans for northern Iraq incursion'

[Dave]

It's obvious where the inspiration comes from.

[Anonymouse]

this nonesense has to stop, really. I understand the frastration of the Lebanese or Syrians of Armenian origin on this forum whose families are being bombed, nonetheless the Mid East is in this crisis because nobody wants to cool off their heads and think rationally, instead they are wrapped up in endless religious nonesense that supposedly and only supposedly dates back thousands of years ago. The example of Ameluks bs is yet another demonstration of this nonesense.

 

On the note about Israelis and Armenians. I worked in Israel this winter for a month and I'll tell you there are a lot of people who don't even know who Armenians are, much less associate them to some ancient tribe. In addition, Israel absorbed close to one million of former Soviet immigrants from various republics (as well as Armenia), so the Israeli culture has been russianized a lot, and these people know and love Armenians like their own. There are Armenian restaurants in Tel Aviv today, I'll attach a picture of one.

 

Why are Zionists doing what they are doing? Why is any extremist organization/party doing what they are doing?

 

I think that what Armenians need to worry about is how Israel through all the wars and destruction managed to build such a great economy while their own little country is suffering from corrupt government, a

D rated airport, kisakand apartment buildings, environmental degradation and outmigration rates that is simply unacceptable (and I am not blaming the people who are trying to feed their families, rather Armenians as a whole). Let's stop the inferiority complex, people and let's stick to our problems which is plenty.

 

 

First of all, this is not a religious conflict. It may appear that way on the surface, but it is first and foremost a real estate dispute, as that is what has initially triggered all of this.

 

Second, if you go any more up Israel's ass you just might hit the intestines. Seriously. It's not hard to build such a 'great economy' when you are being subsidized by the greatest economic and military power and the most fertile stolen A-rabs lands and with access to port, and you compare that to Armenia?

 

Sitting here and turning this issue into yet another avenue of criticizing Armenia is a tiring drill. I think it is established beyond a shadow of a doubt that every Armenian is a critic and every Armenian has the answers to everything that could fix Armenia. This wasn't about that.

[hytga]

Monday, July 17, 2006

 

Bush: Lean on Syria

 

I cobbled the Bush-Blair exchange on Israel and Lebanon, accidentally caught at the G8 on mike, together fromWaPo and ABC News.

 

 

 

BUSH to Blair: "I think Condi is going to go (to the Middle East) pretty soon."

 

BLAIR: "Right, that's all that matters, it will take some time to get that together . . . See, if she goes out she's got to succeed as it were, where as I can just go out and talk."

 

BUSH: "See, the irony is what they need to do is get Syria to get Hizbollah to stop doing this shit and it's over."

 

BLAIR: "Who, Syria?"

 

BUSH: "Right . . . What about Kofi? That seems odd. I don't like the sequence of it. His attitude is basically ceasefire and everything else happens."

 

BLAIR: "I think the thing that is really difficult is you can't stop this unless you get this international presence agreed." . . .

 

BUSH: "I felt like telling Kofi to get on the phone with Assad and make something happen. We're not blaming Israel. We're not blaming the Lebanese government."

 

 

 

 

So, the whole blow-up is Syria's fault, for putting Hizbullah up to making mischief. No reference to Israeli actions in Gaza. No reference to, like, the wholesale destruction of Lebanon by the Israeli air force. And no blame for the Lebanese government of Fouad Siniora. And Bush thinks that Nasrullah of Hizbullah takes direct orders from Damascus. And he thinks that if Bashar al-Asad orders Hizbullah to stop firing its little katyushas and give back the two Israeli soldiers, everything will suddenly settle down.

 

It is an astonishingly simple-minded view of the situation, painted in black and white and making assumptions about who is who's puppet and what the Israeli motivations are. Israel doesn't appear as a protagonist. It is purely reactive. Stop provoking it, and it suddenly stops its war.

 

Since Israel is just being provoked and has no ambitions of its own, in this reading, it is useless to begin with a ceasefire. That treats the two sides as both provoking one another. Here, only Hizbullah matters, so you lean on Syria to lean on it, and, presto, peace breaks out.

 

It is a little window into the superficial, one-sided mind of the man, who has for six years been way out of his depth.

 

I come away from it shaken and trembling.

http://www.juancole.com/

[15levels]

End it now

 

The government is conducting this war with no peripheral vision

Susie Becher

 

When a lone Qassam fell on the grounds of an Ashkelon school that was closed for summer vacation and caused some damage to the building, Prime Minister Olmert called the attack a "declaration of war." One wonders whether he was just being loose with his tongue or whether he really forgot the meaning of the word.

 

Since then, he has since gotten a very clear reminder: You think that's war? We'll show you what war is!

 

Analysts looking for the answer to how we got here ought to recall the initial demand from the Palestinian militias for the release of female prisoners and children in exchange for Gilad Shalit. In our rush not to negotiate with terrorists (never mind that we have done so in the past and will inevitably end up doing so again this time) no one bothered to consider how it came to be that hundreds of Palestinian women and children are languishing in Israeli jails.

 

Those who can't understand why the Palestinians haven't given up the struggle in the wake of Israel's withdrawal from Gaza might be surprised to learn that they don't share the distinction Israel draws between Gaza and the West Bank, and suffer daily reminders that the demolition of Gush Katif did not leave them a free people in their own land.

 

On Monday, the commander of the IDF Judea and Samaria Division said that terrorist organizations in the West Bank are attempting to open another front. Wrong! As far as the Palestinians are concerned, it is all one front.

 

Ever-more force

 

In November 2000, opposition leader Ariel Sharon addressed some 100,000 demonstrators who had gathered in Jerusalem's Zion Square under the banner "Let the IDF win." The IDF had not exercised its full potential in confronting the intifada, Sharon told the assembled crowd, and his promise to end the policy of military restraint helped win him the premiership a few months later.

 

Almost six years later and with no end to the fighting in sight, Olmert is still trying to sell the idea that there is a measure of force that has not yet been used but which, when unleashed, will deal what the prime minister called the "winning blow."

 

More force, he is telling us, will succeed where mere force failed. We must restore the Israel's deterrent power, he is saying, as if the IDF's military superiority has ever been in question and as if it stopped the stones of the first intifada from evolving into explosive belts and rockets.

 

Psychological warfare

 

Whether Hasan Nasrallah gave the order to attack Israel's northern border and take IDF soldiers prisoner because he wanted to come to the aid of the Palestinians, win the release of Sami Kuntar after almost 30 years in captivity, 'liberate' the Sheba Farms farms, or simply strike a blow at the Zionist enemy, Israel certainly had a right to respond.

 

But as the saying goes, it is better to be smart than right, and the government has been anything but smart from day one. It is proceeding militarily as it did diplomatically prior to this latest outbreak – with no peripheral vision.

 

Both Olmert and Defense Minister Peretz keep praising the public's stamina, with the not-so-hidden message being that to voice opposition is to play into the hands of the enemy. This glorification of consensus and de-legitimization of political or popular protest poses a greater threat to Israel than the missiles being fired from the north.

 

By making our ability to suffer in silence a test of our loyalty and bravado, the government is engaging in psychological warfare against its own citizens. The recent Dahaf poll that found that over 80% of the public supports continued military action might create the impression that this approach is working, but its success will be short-lived. The Israeli public's tolerance for military and civilian casualties is limited, and this is to our credit. It is not a sign of weakness; it is a sign of our humanity.

 

End it now

 

Yesterday Prime Minister Olmert told the nation that he is doing everything possible to bring the kidnapped soldiers home, but after meeting with a UN delegation today, his foreign minister hurried to dispel any notion that the opening of a diplomatic front would bring the military operation to a halt. Apparently the government is willing to do everything... except cease its fire.

 

The chief of staff himself said that in the end it is not the army but the statesmen who will finish the job; the question is when. With hundreds of Palestinians and Lebanese – many of them civilians – killed in just a few short weeks, one might argue that we have already proven that we know how to wage war; now, for the sake of their children and ours, it is time to show that we know how to end it.

 

Susie Becher is a member of the Meretz-Yachad National Executive

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3278178,00.html

[15levels]

How I erred By Aluf Benn

 

I was mistaken.

 

Two weeks ago, I wrote here that Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah hates Israel but behaves responsibly, and that since he took control of south Lebanon, a stable balance of deterrence has been created on both sides of the border. "His behavior is rational and reasonably predictable. Under the present conditions, that's the best there is. Hezbollah is preserving quiet in the Galilee better than did the pro-Israeli South Lebanese Army," I wrote. But Nasrallah hastened to prove that his behavior is not predictable, when he gave instructions to attack an Israel Defense Forces patrol near Moshav Zarit and kill and kidnap its soldiers.

 

The mistake in my assessment stemmed, as always, from the idee fixe that what was is what will be. I believed that if Israel and Hezbollah had learned to live according to the "rules of the game" that had developed along their common border, they would be interested in maintaining the balance of power rather than violating it. The IDF, the intelligence services and the government, who have at at their disposal much better sources of information than mine, thought the same. Fact: They lowered the alert level in the north a few days before the attack in Zarit; that means that they expected quiet. But although I was in good company, the responsibility for the mistake is entirely mine.

 

But Nasrallah made a bigger mistake, and his mistakes are lethal. Not only because he had the same idee fixe and expected Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to behave like his predecessors, Ehud Barak and Ariel Sharon - in other words, to tolerate the incident in order avoid a second front in the north. And not because he did not make sure ahead of time, before he ordered the operation, that he had backing from the Arab world for a surprise attack across a recognized international border, on the pretext of "assisting the Palestinians." His principal mistake, which brought about the crisis, was that he was tempted to exploit an operational opportunity to kidnap soldiers.

 

Nasrallah did not resist the temptation to sting Israel and appear once again as the hero of the Arab world. He probably believed in his own rhetoric about the weakness of the "Zionist entity," and when he saw the Israeli failure in the face of the kidnappers of Corporal Gilad Shalit in Gaza, he wanted a similar success. It is hard to believe that he expected to cause such destruction, or a diplomatic process that would attempt to dismantle his organization.

 

The irony is that Nasrallah ought to know better than anyone that operational enticements invite dangers, and a tactical achievement is liable to be a strategic downfall. He rose to the leadership of Hezbollah in 1992 because Israel could not resist a temptation, and assassinated his predecessor, Abbas Musawi, by firing from a helicopter. Israel was punished twice for that: both by the appointment of Nasrallah, who turned out to be a more dangerous enemy that Musawi, and by the bombing of its embassy in Argentina a few weeks later.

 

Two years after the assassination of Musawi, Yitzhak Rabin was tempted to bomb a Hezbollah base for new recruits. Dozens of members of the organization were killed. The response was a massive terror attack on the Jewish community building in Buenos Aires. After that event, Rabin was convinced that sometimes it is a good idea to resist temptation, because the enemy is liable to hit in an unexpected place, and to cause greater pain. The bombing of the base for new recruits proved to be an own goal, and from that time until the present conflict, Israel has refrained from highly publicized operations against Hezbollah.

 

The present round of the conflict with Hezbollah has yet to end. But we can already learn a lesson from it. The most effective deterrence is achieved by walking on the brink, as Nasrallah has done until now. A barking and growling dog is more frightening than a dog that bites and attacks, as long as the neighbor has a pistol. And this lesson is worth remembering every time the temptation arises for another small operational achievement.

 

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/740429.html

[Sassun]

The Israelis better start talking about the irresponsible behaviour of their own leaders. As always, they are the angels and the enemies are the devils who always act irresponsibly. Guess what - the world is taking note of all that is happening, and if you think you can fool the world forever, then you are very, very wrong!

 

You know the Israelis are losing when they start appealing to the "Christian audience" by pointing to the HezbAllah rockets that fell on a "Christian holy city". Like the Jews ever cared about Christianity!

[Lev7]

I think we should stop talking about Jews and Israel and lets focus on our own country. Let their country get bombed, burned, destoryed, wiped off the map, who gives a SH#T, they never cared for us, why should we care for them?