ArmoPhil Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 ArmoPhil , by putting the Armenian flag , I am showing that I am Armenian. If I put the cross , or the picture of Mary or Jesus , I would be SHOWING that I am Christian. Maybe you should add a cross in the middle of the flag , to seal this issue once and for all , since Armenian and Christian are inseparable to you. Then I would be, de jure, non-Armenian. For every Armenians, Christianity and Armenia is inseparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Sexuality is not so much taboo in Islam ... Sassun, if nothing else, you do crack me up with your choice of words. "not so much taboo?" http://www.californiaconservative.org/images/images2/_muslimvacation.jpg I really think with your talents, you could even find a way to portray even a "prostate exam" as a "positive experience" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoPhil Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Hayr Mer, vor hergines yes, soorp yeghitsi anoon ko. Yegestse arkayootyoon ko. Yeghitsin gamk ko vorbes hergines yev hergri. Ez-hats mer hanabazort dour mez aysor. Yev togh mez ezbardis mer, vorbes yev mek toghoomk merots bardabanats. Yev mee danir ezmez ee portsootyoon, ayl pergya ee charen. Zee ko eh arkayootyoon yev zorootyoon yev park havidyanes. Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted May 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Sassun, if nothing else, you do crack me up with your choice of words. "not so much taboo?" http://www.californiaconservative.org/images/images2/_muslimvacation.jpg I really think with your talents, you could even find a way to portray even a "prostate exam" as a "positive experience" So sexuality is about having people look at your wife's body and admire her features ? What is the point of this photo ? Btw it is photoshopped... (and the background is in downtown Beirut ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 In conclusion. Sassun, you are confusd beyond the limit of any one here can help. Please seek professional counseling and help. That's what I was thinking as well in the beginning when I thought he's Armenian. Sassun, at first I thought very sorry for you. Imagine, being a young Armenian and in your position, confused, not knowing what to believe anymore, and desperately trying to get back into the Armenian community. I truly did feel so sorry for you. And I thought your parents had failed in their upbringing of their son. But now, as you've kept this topic alive and keep pushing like you do I no longer believe that you're an Armenian. You don't act like one. Your reasoning that you're as much Armenian as before doesn't make sense. It's like saying 1+1=3. You're not an Armenian. Whatever agenda you had about opening this thread hasn't worked. You will never convince us that an Armenian can voluntarily convert to Islam and yet retain his Armenian identity. It's impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Sassun, I think the picture I posted is more than self explanatory in response to your "sexuality not so much taboo" claim. You are not going to make me explain trivial things ALL the time when they are this obvious. However, if other people see my post and are still confused about the point, I will be more than happy to explain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 So sexuality is about having people look at your wife's body and admire her features ? I thought you said your parents were the ones who would rather talk about religion than sex. It seems you are more backward than they are, why don't you lock up your future wife in a room and don't let her see the sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted May 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 (edited) That's what I was thinking as well in the beginning when I thought he's Armenian. Sassun, at first I thought very sorry for you. Imagine, being a young Armenian and in your position, confused, not knowing what to believe anymore, and desperately trying to get back into the Armenian community. I truly did feel so sorry for you. And I thought your parents had failed in their upbringing of their son. But now, as you've kept this topic alive and keep pushing like you do I no longer believe that you're an Armenian. You don't act like one. Your reasoning that you're as much Armenian as before doesn't make sense. It's like saying 1+1=3. You're not an Armenian. Whatever agenda you had about opening this thread hasn't worked. You will never convince us that an Armenian can voluntarily convert to Islam and yet retain his Armenian identity. It's impossible. Anoushik, point well taken re: desperately trying to get back into the Armenian community. You are right, maybe I am too desperate. And maybe I know that it won't happen , maybe that is why I wanted to offset that by looking for some acceptance and 'consolation ' here. i thought that maybe Armenians in America or Europe will be more open minded and maybe, maybe accept me (even if they will try to change me back ) . Yeah , maybe I am pushing the thread, you have a point on that one too, but you don't realize what I am trying to say , and while you say I am desperate , i don't think you realize how desperate I am. It is not counselling that I need. If I needed it I would have sought it and found refuge in that , but it is not what I need. I always felt something was missing in my life and that was filled by Islam , but now I have something else missing in my life , and that is , my friends , my people . now tell me , if you (not only you , also others here , and Armenian community at large ) are the missing piece to the puzzle , why would i go to some stranger 'counsellor ' to set things right ? Anyway i rest my case. Edited May 30, 2007 by Sassun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted May 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 (edited) I thought you said your parents were the ones who would rather talk about religion than sex. It seems you are more backward than they are, why don't you lock up your future wife in a room and don't let her see the sun. Yervant , that was not the point , the point is that the pic does not say anything about 'sexuality' . sexuality is more than just what people wear , and by the way , Muslim women supposedly do not wear that way 'at home ' .... though that pic is photoshopped (just look at the lack of shadows on the Niqabs , and the proportionality) , but since we got into the topic of sexuality Edited May 30, 2007 by Sassun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoPhil Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 May I ask why are you people talking about Sex? The Subject is clearly if "Armenian Muslims" are considered to be Armenians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted May 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 May I ask why are you people talking about Sex? The Subject is clearly if "Armenian Muslims" are considered to be Armenians. I think it's because they want to 'show' how 'backwards' Muslims are in such matters, to show that I am voluntarily being 'part of this' and must abandon it... Probably though , they are more 'conservative' than even (yeah I said EVEN) me. (or maybe because we 've arrived at a dead end , you are trying to convince me to convert back and i am trying to convince you to accept me ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 (edited) In one of the threads here Domino (Quebecer, Domino, McFarty Analyst (sic??) stated that the mother of my late mother's boyfriend was a Moslem married to an Armenian. That was no "run of the mill" Armenian family. He was a famous author and his brother a US Congressman. Do any of you know if this is true and if there are any other Armenians married to Moslems? Your Kids will become Muslim. Following your footsteps. No Armenian woman would marry you. I have yet to see it happen. If it ever does, the plague has started. Slowly our community will eventually become Muslim. And I also have doubts that you live in Lebanon, it's the first time I see a Lebanese "Armenian" speak so well English.. Edited May 31, 2007 by phantom22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoPhil Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I think it's because they want to 'show' how 'backwards' Muslims are in such matters, to show that I am voluntarily being 'part of this' and must abandon it... Probably though , they are more 'conservative' than even (yeah I said EVEN) me. (or maybe because we 've arrived at a dead end , you are trying to convince me to convert back and i am trying to convince you to accept me ) Well Polygamism is a reason why people convert to Islam.. ie: Akon, Ice Cube, Dave Chapelle but hence, I do not see what feeling you get from Religion. There is no feeling. It's a belief, not a physical spirit making you feel amazing or I don't know what. And did you know, if you were already baptized, converting to another Religion after being Baptized is a major sin? Anyways, if you ever think of re-converting back to Christianity, I would be delightfully glad to hear so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) I will be delightful to see anyone re-converting back from religion. Edited May 31, 2007 by Zartonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoPhil Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I think it's because they want to 'show' how 'backwards' Muslims are in such matters, to show that I am voluntarily being 'part of this' and must abandon it... Probably though , they are more 'conservative' than even (yeah I said EVEN) me. (or maybe because we 've arrived at a dead end , you are trying to convince me to convert back and i am trying to convince you to accept me ) I wouldn't be able to accept a Muslim to be considered Armenian. The simple reason why is, our identity is Christianity. If you were to be considered Armenian, then your kids will be known Armenian Muslims. Therefor, by the time passes, we will be assimilated and the Muslims will be victorious for doing so. I don't want to see Armenia become like what is now Lebanon. 75% Muslim, 25% Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I always felt something was missing in my life and that was filled by Islam , but now I have something else missing in my life , and that is , my friends , my people . now tell me , if you (not only you , also others here , and Armenian community at large ) are the missing piece to the puzzle , why would i go to some stranger 'counsellor ' to set things right ? Anyway i rest my case. Sassun, Christianity is part of the Armenian identity. Turning the other cheek is part of the Armenian identity. How can you justify Islam with the Armenian identity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 May I ask why are you people talking about Sex? The Subject is clearly if "Armenian Muslims" are considered to be Armenians. Long story short, it came from the discussion from whether or not Sassun would marry an Armenian woman. And if he did, whether he would treat her like a posession (i.e. how Islam treats women) or like a real person with feelings, desires, etc. That's where the sex talk came about as far as I remember. Also Arpa was suggesting sex as an alternative to this fixation on religion as a passtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Pretty good summary, Sip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) Long story short, it came from the discussion from whether or not Sassun would marry an Armenian woman. And if he did, whether he would treat her like a posession (i.e. how Islam treats women) or like a real person with feelings, desires, etc. That's where the sex talk came about as far as I remember. Also Arpa was suggesting sex as an alternative to this fixation on religion as a passtime. Correct. And I maintain my point. In addition, I may have triggered the deviation when I likened conversion or looking for alternate psyche to seeking sex change surgery rather than looking for the real spiritual and psychological reason for the discontent with one's religious or gender identity. And, yes I do believe that a fixation and obsession of a young man(woman) with religion at that tender age is not healthy. They should rather be concerned with jobs, eventual marriage and leading a decent life for themselves and their potential family. Leave religion and obsession with afterlife to the over the 80 crowd. Another reason why I did not get into any theological debate, not that I know anything about it or even care less. Edited May 31, 2007 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) Hayr Mer, vor hergines yes, soorp yeghitsi anoon ko. Yegestse arkayootyoon ko. Yeghitsin gamk ko vorbes hergines yev hergri. Ez-hats mer hanabazort dour mez aysor. Yev togh mez ezbardis mer, vorbes yev mek toghoomk merots bardabanats. Yev mee danir ezmez ee portsootyoon, ayl pergya ee charen. Zee ko eh arkayootyoon yev zorootyoon yev park havidyanes. Amen. ՎԱՆԵՑՈՑ ՀԱՅՐ ՄԵՐԸ Հայր Մեր երկնավոր, սուրբ ըլլա քո անուն, Հային երկրավոր տուր արքայություն, Ամեն բանի մեջ քու կամքը թող ըլլա, Միայն թե հայը լուծի տակ չըլլա. Ոչ չոր, ոչ կակուղ հացդ մենք կուզենք, Միայն տուր ամեն հայի ձեռքը զենք: Չենք խնդրիլ թողնել մեր անձանց պարտքը, Միայն կատարե դու հայու կամքը, Գլորե մեզ Աստված մարտի փորձության, Որ շուտ ազատի ազգը քո Հայկյան: Սասուն, քո մեղքը՝ քո վիզը: Քո դեմ միշտ բաց են դռները վերադառնալու այնտեղ, որտեղից մի օր սկսվել ես: Ես չեմ ասում, թե իսլամը վատ է քրիստոնեությունից: Բայց քրիստոնեությունը ՄԵՐՆ է արդեն հազար յոթ հարյուր տարի , իսլամը՝ ՕՏԱՐ: Edited May 31, 2007 by SAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted May 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Long story short, it came from the discussion from whether or not Sassun would marry an Armenian woman. And if he did, whether he would treat her like a posession (i.e. how Islam treats women) or like a real person with feelings, desires, etc. That's where the sex talk came about as far as I remember. Also Arpa was suggesting sex as an alternative to this fixation on religion as a passtime. Sip no way!!!! Islam does not treat women like possessions... And of course I would treat my wife like a real person with feelings, desires, etc., is there any doubt about that? Also in Muslim homes , the wife is the one who 'rules' . Or so I am told by my other Muslim friends. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted May 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) And, yes I do believe that a fixation and obsession of a young man(woman) with religion at that tender age is not healthy. They should rather be concerned with jobs, eventual marriage and leading a decent life for themselves and their potential family. Arpa, who isn't concerned with job ,marriage, having a family, etc. ? Everyone is. Unless one is taking a strictly religious route , as in , studying to be a cleric or something , which I am not (or else I would be in Najaf or Qom ) Speaking of jobs , there are no jobs in this country and I do not have the ability to leave it . (where would I go anyway ? ) So I do not think I can worry myself much about getting a decent job , because it won't happen . And as for marriage , I do not know any girls , and of course I will not get married until I sort out my personal affairs , because I need to make final decisions before seriously thinking about getting married. So I am stuck with me , myself, and religion . Edited May 31, 2007 by Sassun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted May 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 ՎԱՆԵՑՈՑ ՀԱՅՐ ՄԵՐԸ Հայր Մեր երկնավոր, սուրբ ըլլա քո անուն, Հային երկրավոր տուր արքայություն, Ամեն բանի մեջ քու կամքը թող ըլլա, Միայն թե հայը լուծի տակ չըլլա. Ոչ չոր, ոչ կակուղ հացդ մենք կուզենք, Միայն տուր ամեն հայի ձեռքը զենք: Չենք խնդրիլ թողնել մեր անձանց պարտքը, Միայն կատարե դու հայու կամքը, Գլորե մեզ Աստված մարտի փորձության, Որ շուտ ազատի ազգը քո Հայկյան: Սասուն, քո մեղքը՝ քո վիզը: Քո դեմ միշտ բաց են դռները վերադառնալու այնտեղ, որտեղից մի օր սկսվել ես: Ես չեմ ասում, թե իսլամը վատ է քրիստոնեությունից: Բայց քրիստոնեությունը ՄԵՐՆ է արդեն հազար յոթհարյուր տարի , իսլամը՝ ՕՏԱՐ: Վանեցոց ի՞նչ կը նշանակէ: Այսինքն Վանեցիներո՞ւ: Բնաւ չեմ լսած այս աղօթքը: Չեմ յիշեր ինչպէս կ'աղօթէինք դպրոցը : Կարծեմ Հայր Մերն էր բայց արեւմտահայերէնով: Բայց միայն առաջին նախադասութիւնը կը յիշեմ կոր՝ Հայր մեր որ երկինքն ես: Շատ տարբեր էր կարծեմ գրաբառէն որովհետեւ կը յիշեմ երբ դպրոցս փոխեցի գրաբառով կ'աղօթէին նոր դպրոցս եւ ես չէի գիտեր: Եւ չեմ հասկնար անոր մէջի ամէն բառերը: Հարցում՝ եկեղեցին կիրակի օրուընէ զատ ուրիշ օր մէկը կրնա՞յ մտնել (Անթըլեասի եկեղեցիին մասին է խօսքս ՝ եթէ մէկը գիտէ պատասխանը): Ես չեմ կրնար կիրակի օր երթալ որովհետեւ ուրիշ մարդիք կ'ըլլան եւ չեմ ուզեր որ տեսնեն ինծի եթէ երթամ: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Sassun, Christianity is part of the Armenian identity. Turning the other cheek is part of the Armenian identity. How can you justify Islam with the Armenian identity? Great post, but does that mean you just admitted you are not Armenian, since you yourself are not Christian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoPhil Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Anoushik is Atheist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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