Muslim Armenian?

[Sip]

«Սիփ»ը (Սիփա՞ն) անունդ տուաւ այս նիւթին մէջ, ըսաւ որ կ'ուզէ տեսնել երկուքս կրօնքի նիւթը «ծեծենք»: Եթէ կը փափաքիս ես համացայն եմ:

 

 

Yah come on guys ... let's have a real discussion here once and for all. You can't both be right. Bible + Jesus vs Quran + Allah ... which one of you two got it right?

[Yervant1]

 

Yah come on guys ... let's have a real discussion here once and for all. You can't both be right. Bible + Jesus vs Quran + Allah ... which one of you two got it right?

I bet Hagarag will get it right.

[Sip]

Hagarag is going to explain how Jesus and Muhammad had a common Armenian ancestor who was gay and married to a jew in the higher echelons of the time. You just wait ...

[hijabbed]

As far as religion being "man-made", of course it is "man made". Why would Allah care how you wash your hands after wiping your ass with it? I mean come on.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuude man you got it all wrong! that made me laugh so badly though . its the purpose of life and the false evolution theory by Darwin (yes people its all a dumbass theory) which tends to be the reason why people look into religions and see if they are true.

 

[Dave]

Mleh Ishkhanabed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mleh_of_Armenia

[Sassun]

 

Yah come on guys ... let's have a real discussion here once and for all. You can't both be right. Bible + Jesus vs Quran + Allah ... which one of you two got it right?

And when (not if) I prove that the Qur'an is above all other 'holy' books ? What do I get? You all convert? (kidding).

Or how about this: when I do that , you will accept me as Armenian ?

[Sip]

And when (not if) I prove that the Qur'an is above all other 'holy' books ? What do I get? You all convert? (kidding).

Or how about this: when I do that , you will accept me as Armenian ?

 

If you can prove the Qur'an is above all other 'holy' books, being "Armenian" or not will be quite irrelevant. Obviously the whole point of this thread has been that the Qur'an is somehow leaving you unfulfilled .. there is something still lacking in your life even with the Qur'an and that's why you are in seek of your Armenianness.

 

So I don't have much hope that you will prove much about your Qur'an. What I am interested to see is the discussion about which is the Truth: Qur'an or the Bible and there are people on each side claiming one way or the other and they can't both be true.

[Sassun]

Sip

Not really. Islam gives me full satisfaction in my life. However, I am , other than being Muslim, also Armenian. I feel Armenian , and so I do not see why I should be pushed away in this way . Wanting to be accepted by one's own does not say anything about whether or not Islam and the Qur'an are lacking. That is like saying that if someone has a quarrel with his parents , then he should not want to make things right because if he does want it, then it means that his religion is not fulfilling his spiritual needs.

[Sassun]

And well, l et me actually correct myself: the correct word to be used is not 'prove' but 'demonstrate' / 'show' , because the proof is there and just needs to be shown to all those who have not yet seen it.

[ArmoPhil]

Alright, first of all, I would like to say to you Sassun, that if you ARE an Armenian, I am really disappointed to see that you VOLUNTARILY converted to Islam. I will not consider you Armenian since we have fought for many years for our identity, being Christian and fighting to remain Christian. We have been invaded so many times by the Turkish Army of Islam and yet we have saved our name. ARMENIANS are known to be the FIRST to have a Christian State. And I should also add, the Armenians in Turkey that are assimilated, that have no clue that they have Armenian blood in them. I pity them. It's not their fault but it's good to know that some Turks are noticing that they really are Armenians. They remain Muslim to fit in the community. But you, Sassun, you live in Lebanon where it is home to over 300 000 Armenians.. You voluntarily convert to Islam. I am really disappointed.

[ArmoPhil]

And I should also add, the yeraguyn you have... The Red emblematizes the Armenian Highland, the Armenian people's continued struggle for survival, maintenance of the CHRISTIAN FAITH, Armenia's independence and freedom. So you putting the flag is an insult to our country's name and the people of it.

 

And I also ask why you posted the lyrics of Hye Kacher? It's a hekhapokhagan song.. You are far from being Tashnagstagan.

Edited May 29, 2007 by ArmoPhil

[AK-47]

Ak-47

What if I am willing to fight and die for my people / homeland?

Would I be disallowed from doing so (or not respected if I am Martyred ) because Armenian Priests cannot bless me before going off? MONTE MELKONIAN did not fight AGAINST MUSLIMS. He fought against Azeris. He fought ALONGSIDE Muslims, in LEBANON (the Israelis knew him BY NAME, he, by himself, had done them that much damage. Just imagine for a moment, we are talking here about one of the world's most powerful armies, which defeated entire Arab armies in 6 days), and in Kurdistan. Should he have been disallowed from doing so because he prayed differently, and believed in another religion ?

 

And by the way, the Lebanese Armenians suffered during the civil war , but they did not suffer from Muslims any more than they suffered from Christians , ever heard of the Kata'eb / Phalange ? They were the ones who tried to attack Armenians. And if I were not just a kid during the Leb. civil war, you would know which side I would have fought on.

And no, that would not have been the Muslim, nor the Christian side. Take a wild guess.

I would welcome you with open arms if you are willing to put your Armenianness over Islam. But you should understand that Islam is viewed as the religion of the enemy, especially if and when Artsakh war breaks out again (we'd have the green light to take over Baku and burn their stinking oil field bahahah) You will be viewed as a traitor/spy/enemy by your own comrades, like it happened in Lebanon. You must understand that Armenians in general have a big dislike in regards to Islam. My friend uttered one Arabic word (yalla) in Armenia and he was frowned upon by random Armenians for using that "Islamic word" (even though the word is Arabic and not Turkic, the common enemy)

 

Lav urav Melkonian when he fought Israel (which you can clearly guess I am not a fan of, at all). But those same Muslims (mostly the PLO) who helped him out (i'd say used him) during the civil war sold him and ASALA out years later. Treacherous.

 

I have heard of the Phalangists and I mentioned them in an earlier post. Anyway I just want you to know that, down the line you have to chose between this religion you have embraced and being Armenian, I will be hoping you will make the correct choice, "insh'allah". Assimilation into the religion we have fought against for centuries or the ethnicity in which you take pride in. At this rate, you will be quickly losing your Armenianness.

 

(On a note, I saw your Armenian writing and I am happy that you still remember and it seems you are using "-gor" while writing. I see you hate the "no gor" rule too LOL )

Edited May 29, 2007 by AK-47

[Sassun]

Alright, first of all, I would like to say to you Sassun, that if you ARE an Armenian, I am really disappointed to see that you VOLUNTARILY converted to Islam. I will not consider you Armenian since we have fought for many years for our identity, being Christian and fighting to remain Christian. We have been invaded so many times by the Turkish Army of Islam and yet we have saved our name. ARMENIANS are known to be the FIRST to have a Christian State. And I should also add, the Armenians in Turkey that are assimilated, that have no clue that they have Armenian blood in them. I pity them. It's not their fault but it's good to know that some Turks are noticing that they really are Armenians. They remain Muslim to fit in the community. But you, Sassun, you live in Lebanon where it is home to over 300 000 Armenians.. You voluntarily convert to Islam. I am really disappointed.

Armophil

I ACCEPT Armenian history , with ALL its RELIGIOUS implications.

But YOU DO NOT ACCEPT ME as part of the Armenian people.

That is what is disappointing.

For me , religion is a personal thing , and I do not impose any identity on my people.

All I want is to be given the chance to be part of the Armenian nation "the way I am".

I am sorry you feel insulted that I put the Armenian flag. But no, I will not remove it.

I am sorry that your identity and strength are based on the weakness and exclusion of others.

 

Good day.

 

[Armenak]

Are you going to marry an Armenian?

[Sassun]

Are you going to marry an Armenian?

Yes, of course, I would like to.

 

[Sassun]

I would welcome you with open arms if you are willing to put your Armenianness over Islam.

Thanks AK-47. I do. That's why I call myself Muslim Armenian and not Armenian Muslim.

 

Well it is my dream to go and fight if another war breaks out. But that depends on whether or not I will be allowed to. I should be given a chance, don't you think? Although some might say that in war you cannot take such chances, but we are talking here about an ARMENIAN, raised ARMENIAN, feeling ARMENIAN, we are not talking about trusting some stranger or mercenary who offers his help. If you will not trust the person who is willing to walk to his death if it will serve the cause, then you are opening a pandorra's box , and you begin questioning others' loyalties too, and not just mine. Far more people have switched sides and betrayed for money and other such things, than for religion. If I take a position on something it means it is my position and I give my word of honor. In the end, there MUST be some element of unilateral trust, no matter if the fighter is Muslim or Christian.

 

AK-47

Please, do not underestimate Monte Melkonian's intelligence and abilities. I know you do not intend to do so. But let me tell you, all the stupid PLO leaders and fighters combined are not equal to Monte's fingernail. Nobody used Monte, Monte fought because that is what he believed in. The PLO did not even know what they wanted let alone being 'smart' enough to use others, and of all people OUR HERO MONTE MELKONIAN ,for their benefit (you know what Salah Khalaf/ Abu Iyad said ? He said that the path to Palestine passed through Jounieh... you know where Jounieh is? It is in the opposite direction).

Մոնթէն իրենց պէս միլիոն հատը գրպանը կը դնէ: Արդէն եթէ էշ չըլլային մինչեւ հիմա Իսրայէլին նշոյլը չեր մնացած:

 

I do not want to assimilate. I do not want to be anything other than Armenian. If I am accepted by people (and changes in individual's opinions do make a difference on the overall picture, though not overnight ) and can once more be part of the Armenian community, there will be no threat to assimilation at all. Eventually , the verdict is in the hands of you and others here and in the Armenian community at large. I have been fighting the temptation to just completely give up on this fight , but that is about all that I can do and not much more than that. I've tried to reach out but you can see most of the reactions here, they are scornful, intolerant, accusing me of betrayal, of being a Turk (I cannot imagine how blind people can be, after writing in Armenian , people come and say I am a Turk and am exposed. i mean what the hell ? how blind can one be ?)

 

Yeah I hate the no gor rule ... I always remember that I should not put it when I write in Armenian , but I put it in anyway because it doesn't look good otherwise.

Edited May 29, 2007 by Sassun

[Takoush]

I have heard numerous times my elders used the word "Tajik" for muslims. I was born and raised in the middle east; but although I was quite young when we moved to Canada; yet I haven't heard from my elders nor anyone from the vast Armenian community to voluntarily change their Armenian "Lousavorchagan" Christian religion into Islam or "TAJIK" religion as we put it.

 

When you become Islam, you automatically accept to be our enemy; "NOT OUR FRIEND AND CERTAINLY NOT ARMENIAN"!!!!!!

 

You want acceptance from people in this Forum or anywhere else that you'll go and meet an Armenian or an Armenian bunch of people or community; they will all say the same as most of us are saying to you on this thread. Worse yet; they may even show their disgust right to your face or may even be blunt enough to spit towards your direction.

 

Not to be islam and also not to be raped, during and beyond 1915 young and beautiful Armenian girls hand in hand have jumped in the Arax or Tikris rivers to kill themselves voluntarily NOT TO BECOME ISLAM OR "TAJIK". And you voluntarily have become Islam? I am going to ask you this; WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING HERE IN THIS FORUM?????

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi

[ArmoPhil]

Armophil

I ACCEPT Armenian history , with ALL its RELIGIOUS implications.

But YOU DO NOT ACCEPT ME as part of the Armenian people.

That is what is disappointing.

For me , religion is a personal thing , and I do not impose any identity on my people.

All I want is to be given the chance to be part of the Armenian nation "the way I am".

I am sorry you feel insulted that I put the Armenian flag. But no, I will not remove it.

I am sorry that your identity and strength are based on the weakness and exclusion of others.

 

Good day.

 

The Armenian people got their Identity by Christianity! It is an insult to see that not even death caused you to convert to Islam. It was voluntary. If you are Muslim, there is no point of putting the Armenian flag since it represents Christianity. If you don't believe me, here's a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_flag#_note-1 . Note also that the Symbolism is sourced. If you are really a "Armenian", I will never forget the fact that an "Armenian" voluntarily converted to Islam.. You just said you don't impose any identity on your people.. Don't consider yourself Armenian. You are basically joining the "team" that killed 1.5 million of OUR own people. ARMENIANS. Not to forget the massacres committed during the Artsakh war in Maraghar and the Sumgait Pogrom. You ARE the enemy now. You belong to the Arabic, Turkic, Persian, and every other Islamic Nation now. Think about it, you're that little virus that will make Armenian kids become Muslim. Your kids will become Muslim, and they will consider themselves Armenian.. You are basically a Tavajan.

 

I'm sorry but this really made me become depressed..

[Anoushik]

The member with username Sassun is not an Armenian.

 

An Armenian Muslim is an oxymoron.

[Anoushik]

Thanks AK-47. I do. That's why I call myself Muslim Armenian and not Armenian Muslim.

You didn't like me calling you a Turk. Why were you so offended? Don't Turks share the same religion with you?

 

If you're not a Turk then either you had very bad Armenian parents who could care less about guiding their children in life and now you're rebelling because of that, or you're from some other nationality just having fun in this forum.

[ArmoPhil]

The only Muslim Armenians are the Hamshenis. None other. You are probably a Turk acting Armenian. Hence, no Armenians would change from Christianity to Muslim. Armenians are proud to be Christians and they remain so. Be an Atheist I don't care.. I see a "Armenian" Muslim in front of me and he'll get it. It is a disgrace to see our identity be plagued by your conversion to Islam. Hell I ask myself, why the hell would you chose Islam anyway? 90% of Islamic Countries have been invaded by the Islamic Army. Therefor, they have been forced to convert to Islam. Christianity spread out peacefully without any violence unlike Islam. Hell, it is hard for me to believe that you are an Armenian. I read an article the other day saying Turkey sent out a group of Turks knowing the Armenian language well to countries where there are strong Armenian Communities. You must be one of them trying to play with our minds.

[annannimusss]

Sassun, don't start talking crap about the Kataeb militia! You know nothing about the Kataeb.

 

A muslim Armenian, what?

Edited May 30, 2007 by SakoPasha

[Anoushik]

I read an article the other day saying Turkey sent out a group of Turks knowing the Armenian language well to countries where there are strong Armenian Communities.

Yes, I've heard about that as well.

[Sassun]

The member with username Sassun is not an Armenian.

 

An Armenian Muslim is an oxymoron.

Ես քեզի դիտմամբ Հայերէնով գրեցի որպէսզի խելքդ քլուխդ ժողուես եւ անիմաստ անկապ բաներ չըսես: Հիմա նոր անդրադարձայ որ դերեւս Հայերէն չես գիտեր: Եթէ գիտես շատ լաւ: Բայց եթէ չես գիտեր եւ տակաւին կը պնդես կոր որ ես թուրք եմ ՝ աներեւակայելիօրէն ցաւալի է , որովհետեւ եթէ ես իրապէս թուրք եմ կը նշանակէ թէ թուրք մը հայերէն գիտէ իսկ հայ մը՝ ոչ:

 

Անուշիկ՝ քեզի խրատ: Խելքդ գլուխդ ժողուէ: Եթէ հայերէն չես գիտեր քնայ հայերէն սորուիր որովհետեւ մենք հայերս դարերու ընդացքին պահպանած ենք մեր լեզուն իսկ դուն (եթէ չես գիտեր հայերէն) կը նկատուիս հայ լեզուի եւ հայ ազգի դշնամի հայ լեզուն չգիտնալովդ: Այնպէս որ ժամանակդ մի վատնէր ինծի թուրք անուանելով: Քնայ եւ հայերէն սորուիր: Եղա՞ւ: Եւ երբ որ սորուիս Հայերէն կը խրատեմ որ կարդաս Արշավիր Շիրակեանի (իմ հերոսներէս մին) «Կտակն էր Նահատակներուն»:

 

Ներողամիտ կը գտնուիմ եթէ արդէն գիտես հայերէն: Եթէ գիտես՝ թերեւս ընթերձանութեան մէջ տկար ես: Նորէն կարդայ հայերէնով գրածներս: Եւ գնայ եւ գիրքը սկսիր կարդալ:

[Anoushik]

Դու հայ չես։ Եվ դու ինձ ոչ մի խրատներ մի տուր։ Edited May 30, 2007 by anoushik