aSoldier Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 I have to strongly disagree. What you are proposing is a form of thought eugenism which will hinder progress. You can not expect thought progress without a natural selection of thoughts. !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 (edited) tell me what Iran has done for us? Patrick, AK-47 and Shahan Araradian are right. Driven out of their best interest, the Iranians have taken the role of a shield against the turkish world. No one must be blamed for the job we fail to do ... it's up to us how we gonna build our country. We like it or not, it's the Iranians now who bridge us with our past. Find a way to read Avesta and you'll be surprised how much information it has about the origin of the armenians and their influence on the ancient world. Just the fact that the Armenian story of flood and Noah, and the first/original version of a boy in basked(similar to the story of Moses)can be found in Iranian sources, must tell you how important their role is in bringing the truth out in open. The Judeo-Turkish attempts to rewrite the history and steal it from us along with our territories can be stopped only by telling the truth. Let's not be blinded by the fact that they are muslims. Iranian, German, French, or Jupiterian makes no difference. The truth is, they hold the key in uncovering the truth and they are willing to help us. Why not take advantage of that instead of blaming others for the job we fail to do...? Edited July 1, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 I have to strongly disagree. What you are proposing is a form of thought eugenism which will hinder progress. You can not expect thought progress without a natural selection of thoughts. I don't understand what you mean in the first two sentences but I am definitely FOR natural selection of toughts. That's exactly the reason why I think religion has been a hinderance as it prevents natural selection of tought and FORCES a certain way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 yes, lets invite islam in. lets bring some exotic arabs into our armenia. our 1600 year old churches will be turned into mosques, wel be singing allah wakbar instead of Hair mer. yeah Patrick jan, i can imagine you getting married 3-4 times... just follow the link i hope you understand russian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sezen Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Hi guys, Long time no see. I wanted to discuss the question of whether or not as Armenians you would consider an Armenian convert to Islam as an Armenian? If yes, why, and if no, why not? (I wanted to add a poll but I don't know why it didn't work.) This thread popped up on a google search of Armenian convert to Islam, which arose due to my search for sources of the Karaman dynasty's Muslim Armenian founder, father of Karaman Bey who married a Seljuk princess. Why am I curious about the Karamanoglus? Well, my Dad is from a village on the Konya-Karaman border, and my Mom is from Konya as well. While we are Turkish, my little brother bares an uncanny resemblance to the youth of the "Color of Pomegrenates" actor. The resemblance is uncanny really, even when observing the entire growth from child to young man. The only difference, perhaps, is that my brother had curly yellow locks until he was three. In Konya, it is taken for granted that everybody might have some "Rum" in them. "Rum" is the generic, nondescript word for the Christian populace, derived from "of the Romans/Byzantines". The Seljuk sultanate, of course, was called, "Sultanate of Rum". I asked my relatives if there is any evidence of Armenian ancestry specifically, not just the possibility of "Rum" in general, but they did not know for certain. Of course, many of my relatives also have distinctly Turkic features, as is also the case with many rural Konyalis as well. But, more dominantly, *also* as is very much the case with Konyalis, my grandparents are pious Muslims. To a pious Muslim, religion supercedes nationality, ethnicity, and ancestry. And, so, they do not speak too much on potential forefathers and foremothers, whether they be Turk, Circassian, Arab, Persian, Mongol, Greek, Armenian, Gypsy, Kurd, Slav, or Jew. They figure it comes down to Adam and Eve in the end. Back to this topic... If you become a Muslim Armenian amidst Lebanese Muslim brothers and sisters, then maybe a few centuries years later you will have a "Lebanese" great great ... granddaughter with a curly yellow haired baby brother wondering who her great great ... grandfather might have been. Other than that, speaking as a Muslim who has in a real sense come "full circle", I can understand your belief in Islam. However, you do not need to alienate friends and family in order to worship God in your heart, no matter what language that worship takes. You may consider me "Muslim lite" on account of my Turkishness, or whatever, but you must know that you would be lacking in your own humility if you made such a judgement. And, if there is anything that Islam necessitates, that is Humility. An interesting thing this Humility is. The moment that a person becomes certain of his own humility, he immediately loses it. You clearly love your heritage, your family, your brethren. This is a very good thing, and it is also commendable in a Muslim. Whatever is the right religion, it will not ask you to alienate your family, your heritage, to whom you owe so much. Then what does it mean, "the right religion"? Is it a matter of the name of the religion, or rather in the way that you breathe as you pray? Is it possible that one who says "Hallelujah" with the right breath is truly praying correctly while the one who says "Bismillahirahmanirahim" with the wrong breath is not? It is true that "Bismillahirahmanirahim" has a certain rhythm, flow that is difficult to get wrong. But, it is not some kind of abracadabra just to say it. After all, I can program my computer to say it. About that which is Armenian and that which is Muslim: Although my family is from Konya of the Mevlevis, it was only last year that I chanced upon seeing the Dervishes whirl. And, it was only by an unlikely timing of chance. Prior to witnessing them, my mind was superbly cluttered. But, when you see the Dervishes Whirl, your mind dares not utter a single thought to interrupt the moment. There is such a perfect peace in that prayer, you are incapable of disrespect. My mind, soul, body was cleansed. In the "Color of Pomegrenates" the boy who so much resembled my brother wore a hat and flowing outfit, not unlike those whose whirls I so lately witnessed. He is a Christian boy, and a Dervish yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Sezen welcome to the forum, thank you for the interesting post... Good luck with more findings, and keep us informed as well!!! Need anything don't hesitate to ask!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 (edited) Welcome unboard sezen, there has been long time we didn'T have a new Turkish member here. Edited March 13, 2008 by DominO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoComment Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 (edited) Turkey´s Hidden Armenians: (FRIDAY, APRIL 27, 2007) "After the genocide of the early 20th century, Armenian identity in Turkey has been hidden or even pushed away for fear of discrimination." http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-335857292932517366 a video from the France24 channel, video which is not available today on this side, only the sound have a look to the comments http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/...n-Armenians.php Edited March 16, 2008 by NoComment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlandahay Posted August 14, 2008 Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 This thread popped up on a google search of Armenian convert to Islam, which arose due to my search for sources of the Karaman dynasty's Muslim Armenian founder, father of Karaman Bey who married a Seljuk princess. Why am I curious about the Karamanoglus? Well, my Dad is from a village on the Konya-Karaman border, and my Mom is from Konya as well. While we are Turkish, my little brother bares an uncanny resemblance to the youth of the "Color of Pomegrenates" actor. The resemblance is uncanny really, even when observing the entire growth from child to young man. The only difference, perhaps, is that my brother had curly yellow locks until he was three. In Konya, it is taken for granted that everybody might have some "Rum" in them. "Rum" is the generic, nondescript word for the Christian populace, derived from "of the Romans/Byzantines". The Seljuk sultanate, of course, was called, "Sultanate of Rum". I asked my relatives if there is any evidence of Armenian ancestry specifically, not just the possibility of "Rum" in general, but they did not know for certain. Of course, many of my relatives also have distinctly Turkic features, as is also the case with many rural Konyalis as well. But, more dominantly, *also* as is very much the case with Konyalis, my grandparents are pious Muslims. To a pious Muslim, religion supercedes nationality, ethnicity, and ancestry. And, so, they do not speak too much on potential forefathers and foremothers, whether they be Turk, Circassian, Arab, Persian, Mongol, Greek, Armenian, Gypsy, Kurd, Slav, or Jew. They figure it comes down to Adam and Eve in the end. Back to this topic... If you become a Muslim Armenian amidst Lebanese Muslim brothers and sisters, then maybe a few centuries years later you will have a "Lebanese" great great ... granddaughter with a curly yellow haired baby brother wondering who her great great ... grandfather might have been. Other than that, speaking as a Muslim who has in a real sense come "full circle", I can understand your belief in Islam. However, you do not need to alienate friends and family in order to worship God in your heart, no matter what language that worship takes. You may consider me "Muslim lite" on account of my Turkishness, or whatever, but you must know that you would be lacking in your own humility if you made such a judgement. And, if there is anything that Islam necessitates, that is Humility. An interesting thing this Humility is. The moment that a person becomes certain of his own humility, he immediately loses it. You clearly love your heritage, your family, your brethren. This is a very good thing, and it is also commendable in a Muslim. Whatever is the right religion, it will not ask you to alienate your family, your heritage, to whom you owe so much. Then what does it mean, "the right religion"? Is it a matter of the name of the religion, or rather in the way that you breathe as you pray? Is it possible that one who says "Hallelujah" with the right breath is truly praying correctly while the one who says "Bismillahirahmanirahim" with the wrong breath is not? It is true that "Bismillahirahmanirahim" has a certain rhythm, flow that is difficult to get wrong. But, it is not some kind of abracadabra just to say it. After all, I can program my computer to say it. About that which is Armenian and that which is Muslim: Although my family is from Konya of the Mevlevis, it was only last year that I chanced upon seeing the Dervishes whirl. And, it was only by an unlikely timing of chance. Prior to witnessing them, my mind was superbly cluttered. But, when you see the Dervishes Whirl, your mind dares not utter a single thought to interrupt the moment. There is such a perfect peace in that prayer, you are incapable of disrespect. My mind, soul, body was cleansed. In the "Color of Pomegrenates" the boy who so much resembled my brother wore a hat and flowing outfit, not unlike those whose whirls I so lately witnessed. He is a Christian boy, and a Dervish yet. I dont know what kind of Muslim humility you are talking about. I have seen white native europeans flee their homes because they just cant stand the muslims anymore. I have seen muslims take to the streets making threats in a homeland that doesnt belong to them. I have seen them murder people that dared speak up against them, I have seen Muslims form gangs to "protect" their people from "european racism". Humility? look again. Listen mate, let me tell you a story. It's about my cousin. She is half Armenian half dutch. We were having some family problems and she distanced herself from the family, preferring the company of an Iranian muslim student. They were dating for two years and by the time I found out they were talking about marriage. for reasons unknown to me my family didnt say anything...and these are the children of my grandfather, a genocide survivor. Now the way I see it, we all have a sacred duty left to us by our ancestors. That is to carry on! My grandfather crossed the desert at 4 years old and ate trash to stay fugin alive and hearing things like that brings tears in my eyes. Everyday I do my best to try and make him proud...why? Because I owe it to him. Because his effort and suffering was all so that today we can carry his name and why carry it if we stain it? Now my question is, how can an Armenian be so disrespectful and selfish to the sacrifice of his ancestors, how can an Armenian call himself an Armenian if hes actively participating in the extinction of his people. so to answer your question... No An Armenian convert to Islam is a traitor and as good as a Turk. Please understand that as much as I do hate Islam, its not so much out of hatred that I think like this but out of love for my people. PS: I told my cousin that I will not go to her wedding and if she goes through with it I will never consider her part of the family ever again. they broke up 1 month later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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