Muslim Armenian?

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Aratta-Kingdom

 

"Yes, I do not know Monte personally."

 

 

 

You made it sound you do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Most communists did not know Lenin or Marx personally. They knew their views. THey had read their writings or heard them talk."

 

 

That's why communism has failed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I have heard Monte Melkonian talk and not once has he talked about Christian vs Muslim , he has talk about the right of Armenian people to self-determination , he has talked about liberation , he has talked about how the Azeris do not feel connectedness to the land and that is why they are running away because they do not think it worthwhile to fight for what is not theirs."

 

 

That's something everyone has seen on TV

 

 

 

 

 

"But never has he said that the fight has been against Muslims."

 

 

 

The parasite turks also say Charles Aznavour doesn't speak about the Armenian Genocide. Does it mean he's not for the recognition of AG? Beside, you try to make a case based on predictions to advance your own interests. You simply use his name to get the confidence of the Armenians.

 

 

 

 

 

"He also has talked about the Azeris' maltreatment of other ethnic minorities , which are MUSLIM. like the Talysh. So I am not making 'predictions'."

 

You are again using his name to build a case. Since he hasn't spoken about it, you have no right speak from his name.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Now, will you answer my question , please ?"

 

Please? W W

 

 

 

 

 

"How do you know Monte?

You know him personally????

Can you tell me more about him?"

 

I'ts in the muslim culture to use words like a toilet paper. The answer to your question is in my previous post. Like a brainless cat who keeps playing with her tail, you keep circling around the same point. Why don't you instead go back and quote my words...?

 

 

 

 

 

 

"and on what basis you are saying he would not have accepted me ?"

 

What a typical muslim you are. You do like to play with words, don't you? I know for fact Monte had muslim-Armenian friends. But it got nothing to do with your case.

 

 

1. I wan't you to quote my words saying I accepted you as an armenian.

 

2. I want you to quote me saying Monte would not have accepted you as a "muslim-Armenian".

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

"By the way , when you doubt my Armenianness , what is your alternate theory ? that I am a Turk ? Arab"

 

I already told you i don't respect people who make predictions. Don't forget I could have called you an azeri turk who have lived among the armenians and learned to speak armenian just like the other azeri bastards. Just like aliyev, the bitchoglu, they were born in Armenian and have learned to speak armenian in the same schools the armenian children went to.

 

 

 

 

 

"Actually it is funny, I was never expecting to be called a Turk , I knew that people would not accept me as Armenian and would call me traitor , but a Turk ?"

 

Last time I heard, the filthy turks called everyone who doesn't agree with them a traitor. That's the language the turks use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I mean that is some big conspiracy theory, a Turk who has learned Armenian and Arabic and lives in Lebanon , and comes onto an Armenian forum to post about Muslim Armenians ?"

 

 

Welcome to earth my muslim Armenian friend LOL

 

 

 

 

"Anyway it is funny that when all run out of arguments that would convince people that one cannot be Muslim and Armenian at the same time ,"

 

In an Armenian culture you can't have more then one wife and look at woman as a baby making machine. Even the forcefully islamized Armenians of turkey don't live the life you claim to have.

 

 

 

"people start turning things personal ,"

 

 

they have followed your footsteps.

 

 

 

 

"even those who were at one point respectful and were discussing normally."

 

Can't live a life blaming others for your own problems.

 

 

 

 

 

"Actually it is not funny , it is sad.

All I wanted was acceptance. I did not badmouth anyone. I wanted people to hear me out and to accept me. I am not a parasite. I love my people and my language and my homeland. But you want to convince me that I don't."

 

 

I know muslim Armeians from turkey who laugh at you for the way you behave. Just because you speak armenian and claim to be one, der che nshanakum vor qo xosq@ halats yugi pes petq a @ndhunvi.

 

 

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

SIPAN

THIS is what I mean. You misunderstood me. ISLAM does not consider Christianity to be an illegitimate religion. Plus , besides the fact that Islam considers Christianity to be a LEGITIMATE RELIGION , it is not up to me to recognize Christianity as legitimate or not. Who am I to say it is not ? Everyone is free to believe in whatever they want, and for them that would be LEGITIMATE.

 

The official religion of Armenia is Christian, and it must remain so. I do not want to change it. But I want to be able to be accepted for my choice by fellow Armenians. And to be considered as an Armenian. Is that too much to ask for?

 

Islam does not denounce Christianity. That is a misconception.

 

That is what I have been trying to say all along. Sadly, while I do know quite a bit about Christianity , not many here know about Islam except what is commonly repeated (and is more often than not, simply wrong) and I think that is the major problem. People are paranoid based on their misconceptions and misrepresentation of Islam. People fear Islam because of what they see around them (but frankly , there is all the more reason to "fear" Judaism , but not many Armenians do so).

 

 

 

Please someone tell me this IDIOT is joking. For hundreds of years the Christian Armenians were massacred, heavely taxed, and were fored to change their religion my the muslim turks, and this moron is willing to teach us what we sould think about the muslims? The young turks(Zionists) have used that same tool to massacre the Christians by the hands of muslim turks, kurds, lezgis, chechens, and all the others... .

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

"Because they have nothing to do with what I was saying."

 

 

What exactly are you saying? What is the point of all this nonsense. Even if we accept you as an armenian, you are still deprived from speaking your mind since you have no respect for the others. You have turned everyone against you with your aggressiveness. Even if you were an armenians(i'm not saying you are) you still wouldn't be accepted by your way of life. You can't claim islam is a religion of peace and at the same time massacre people by millions and then turn and try to justify your bloody acts. You have a record that speaks louder...!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Actually I have not , no.

The internet is a great tool for learning.

I got my first computer in 1993, and the internet a few years later, and it has been a tremendous learning experience ever since. And actually the school I went to is the best Armenian school in terms of the level of the English language (but miserable in Arabic and below zero in French ) . Our education in other topics like math, science and so on , was in English .

 

 

That's something that still needs to be chacked. You didn't answer the question I have asked you before. Were you always known by this name in that armenian school you claim you went to?

 

 

 

And as for the "American English" , probably part of it is thanks to Mr. Haig Kendirjian my English teacher in michnagark (intermediate level).

 

 

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Sassun, as usual you have posted a lot of fluff but from what I gather:

 

Welcome to the muslim world Sip jan

 

 

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

I read somewhere (don't remember where) that in Artsakh there are some mixed Muslim-Armenian families and they are still in Artsakh after the war . I'll try to find the link for you .

 

Mixed muslim armenian families? How many armenian women married to azeri turks were killed by their husbands? Do you have that list too?

 

[ArmoPhil]

There's no such thing. Only the assimilated ones marry Muslims. We need to get rid of this "Assimilation plague" and make our Armenians be proud of what they are, who they are, and most important, be proud of their IDENTITY.

[Armena]

Hi guys,

Long time no see.

 

I wanted to discuss the question of whether or not as Armenians you would consider an Armenian convert to Islam as an Armenian? If yes, why, and if no, why not?

 

(I wanted to add a poll but I don't know why it didn't work.)

Yes I would. If he puts the importance of his nation and folk first and then the religion he follows, I will consider him as an Armenian.

[Anonymouse]

Armenian musulman? Oxymoron.

 

Islam is the least philosophically advanced of the 3 monotheistic babbles of religions.

 

I agree with the famous economist and political philosopher, Ludwig von Mises when he said that Islam is a despiritualized religion that has never had an idea of a separation of church and state, it has never known about the idea of a free market, or the right of the individual.

 

"The religion of Islam has not changed since the days of the Arab conquests. Their literature, their philosophies continue to repeat the old ideas and do not penetrate beyond the circle of theology. One looks in vain among them for men and movements such as Western Christianity has produced in each century. They maintain their identity only by rejecting everything foreign and ‘different,’ by traditionalism and conservatism. Only their hatred of everything foreign rouses them to great deeds from time to time. All new sects, even the new doctrines which arise with them, are nothing more than echoes of this fight against the foreign, the new, the infidel."

Edited June 9, 2007 by Anonymouse

[gamavor]

Sassun, the question is not whether or not we will consider an individual professing Islam as Armenian, but whether an Armenian accepting Islam would consider himself Armenian? I definitely think HE WILL NOT for obvious reasons! You have few thousand examples just 30 miles west of Yerevan.

[Dave]

Are you talking about the Hamshenis ?

 

I think that we need to go beyond the Millet system that the Ottoman Empire created, which forced us to see Armenians as Christians only, and Muslims as Turks. Even though Islam isn't good...

[Anonymouse]

Sassun, the question is not whether or not we will consider an individual professing Islam as Armenian, but whether an Armenian accepting Islam would consider himself Armenian? I definitely think HE WILL NOT for obvious reasons! You have few thousand examples just 30 miles west of Yerevan.

 

The reason for this is because Islam as a religion does not care about race or culture. It accepts everyone as long, uniting under the banner of the Prophet Muhammed. In that sense, it is quite "egalitarian" in its effrontery. Malcolm X himself witnessed the "diversity" of Islam when he visited Mecca, and realized that Islam transcended national and ethnic boundaries. As lovey dovey it sounds, it is "globalesque" in its intents and purposes. In that sense, all ideologies, whether they be imperialism and secular humanism, or Islam and Christianity, seek the consumption and absorption of greater wholes on a global scale.

 

Armenians, however, are a race and culture. It is more localized. When causes of self-determination, and cultural creativity and racial or cultural preservation are supported, it is not an issue of globalization. In essence, what any true spirit of Armenian should be advocating is causes on a local level.

 

Why I consider Christianity important to Armenians is because of its interwoven history with us, and in relation to those around us. It is, however, ancillary to being Armenian, yet a pivotal part. Had it not been for the Christianity, perhaps our alphabet may not have even been there.

 

So the question of whether one is a Muslim or an Armenian first is paramount to understanding where it stands and the implications of the viral nature of promoting Islam. Then, marrying and intermarrying Turks, Arabs and Persians becomes only a matter of taste and conventions of which Muslim is better. Then if that's the case, we may as well have cursed our Armenianness and just accepted some variant of Islam and just mixed with the Mongoloids from the East and just thrown in the towel.

 

This is akin to how Charles Martel stopped the advance of Islam into France at the Battle of Tours in 732. However, anyone who knows someone from France or has been to France can say that the jokes on the French, as in 10 years, Martel may as well not have stopped the Saracens since it would have made no difference whether they came into France then or now.

 

 

[hijabbed]

WOW

yall need to relax..its not like Sassun is tryna convert you guys. The question is would you accept an Armeninan muslim, or not? Not is islam philisofical, is it real blah blah. Those questions you gota find out for yourself and if you're certain Islam/christianity/judaism etc is fake then you shouldnt hesitate to go research on those religions.

 

Peace out

[Anonymouse]

WOW

yall need to relax..its not like Sassun is tryna convert you guys. The question is would you accept an Armeninan muslim, or not? Not is islam philisofical, is it real blah blah. Those questions you gota find out for yourself and if you're certain Islam/christianity/judaism etc is fake then you shouldnt hesitate to go research on those religions.

 

Peace out

 

Strange that you defend Islam and with the words "Peace out" in one sentence. Irony.

[gamavor]

My answer is NO! And there is no way in the world I would consider anyone who is Moslem as an Armenian, at least not in the course of the present state of affairs in the realm of national consciousness. The so-called Moslem Armenian would not hesitate in a heart beat to call me INFIDEL. This is how "his" religion views those that do not follow his beliefs.

 

[Anoushik]

Sassun, maybe you've already written about this. If you have, please tell me where I can find your post. What is the difference between Christianity and Islam? I'm really interested, especially knowing your answer will have validity because of your knowledge of both religions. By differences I don't mean small details, but the big picture.

[Sip]

I have tried to ask him that MANY times but he keeps avoiding it. All he has really said is that he thinks Islam is the Universal Truth and that he feels good after reading the Qur'an. He has also said that he can't really explain it as some of the things cannot be translated from Arabic. So anoushik, unless you are willing to learn Arabic, or unless you are willing to just take his word that Islam is the Universal Truth, don't expect any good answers here Edited June 13, 2007 by Sip

[Anoushik]

Sassun, maybe you've already written about this. If you have, please tell me where I can find your post. What is the difference between Christianity and Islam? I'm really interested, especially knowing your answer will have validity because of your knowledge of both religions. By differences I don't mean small details, but the big picture.

Hi Sassun, just letting you know that I'll appreciate a response from.

[Anileve]

Get with it. Get out of that Allah, Jehovah, Astuac garbage and welcome to the 21st century of reason and science, not voodoo myths and mythology/voodoology, as like the "muron"/holy water will absolve all you sins, be they murder, thiievery or adultery..

 

 

Interesting that you say that... Recently I've read, listened and spoke to people regarding this new wave of religion. Apparently young people have recently found a feverish interest in "orthodox" religion, for the most part Jews and Muslims. Their parents are loosely practicing religion but kids are growing up with very strict values and even a stricter eye.

 

Having a conversation with a few Jewish mothers they have expressed their concern regarding their children. Apparently yeshiva's are doing a number on them. I think for the most part East Asian (Bukharian) Jews give their children to Bukharian Yeshiva's where the education level is low and prejudice against other religions is high. Kids are returning home with bad grades and poor basic skills in most subjects, and they are also criticizing their parents about not being in line with the religious practice. Being a Jew is tough, they have so many regulations that require serious spending, it's no wonder they go into jobs that pay up a lot of money, I think that it's mainly to support their religious lifestyle. That concept on its own is bizarre to me. The build these tremendous palaces (usually very ugly architecture, we are talking Spartans and Rome with pillars and other fru fru embellishments), but their decoration is very measly inside. Mostly they invest into a couple of refrigerators to separate foods, different sinks, cabinets for different china and so on. Most of them break down the houses bought and build new ones to accomodate their kitchen needs.

 

Muslims are also finding a new trend of being very proud of their religion by practicing it with vigor. More and more women are wearing scarves and long dresses, I don't remember this in the early 90's.

 

I am trying to understand what caused this crazy return to something we've been trying to leave behind with the progressive era, technology and certainly more information. It's like people of those groups are nostalgic for pre-industrial times. Their practices belong in times of Ramses. My only guess is that it's the war that's triggering this wave. But why not fight the war with logic and common sense? Isn't this why we have sciences and all these ineffective civil rights groups? Religion was the source at the time when education was scarce and people relied on God to call on the rain, now we can predict the rainy seasons and have satellites and other communication tools, why the need for burying the food in the back yard?

 

This is all very frightening, only for one reason, people are abandoning science, education and most importantly reason for some vague belief from the book written ages ago.

 

[Anileve]

I probably missed this somewhere in the thread, but is Sassun muslim?

 

To reply to your question, I would accept it. If someone accepts or doesn't accept it doesn't change the fact that you are what you are, so who cares. Whether I would want to associate myself with the person is a different question. I don't universally dislike Muslims or Jews, but I don't like their religion. Most importantly I really dislike converts, they seem to be more fanatical than people who are born into a certain religion. That category includes Jehova converts and Born Again Christians, I have nothing in common with them and they usually make me want to push their buttons.

[Arvestaked]

All religion is a stupid, illogical adherence to fairytales concocted by ancient stupid people uncomfortable with their inherent ignorance. It's a disgusting festering disease and a flagrant mockery of the potential of the human mind. And if you're going to believe in a religion keep it to yourself. It should be something that you are ashamed of for needing. Like a diaper. Edited June 13, 2007 by Arvestaked

[Anonymouse]

Let's see! You are in the 21st century, you have a cell phone yet you are dressed like a genie. Is there something wrong with that picture?

[Dave]

All religion is a stupid, illogical adherence to fairytales concocted by ancient stupid people uncomfortable with their inherent ignorance. It's a disgusting festering disease and a flagrant mockery of the potential of the human mind. And if you're going to believe in a religion keep it to yourself. It should be something that you are ashamed of for needing. Like a diaper.

 

And if you're NOT going to believe in a religion keep it to yourself too.

 

And here goes my 1000th post...

 

I think that Anonymouse made a very good point in regards to Christianity's influence in Armenia. The Armenian nation, culture, and even the Armenian language wouldn't have been the same without Christianity, and especially without our national derivative of the Christian religion. Giving up Christianity to something that won't even give importance to Armenianness (national identity) is sad. So many nations are jealous of our rich heritage and of the development that took place in Armenia and nowhere else. Why? Because Christianity allows such a development while other religions do not. The Armenian Apostolic Church is probably also the most liberal-minded of all the Christian Churches (allowing kahanas to marry, etc.) yet also stays true to its roots.

Edited June 14, 2007 by Dave

[Arvestaked]

Religion is out-dated and illogical.