Muslim Armenian?

[phantom22]

So Yervant 1, the spirits from the "other side" communicate with you as well.

 

In a gold clock that sat in my grandmother's childhood home were the ancestral papers of her family attesting to the fact that they were the direct descendants of the younger brother of the last king, King Levon of Armenia. Her family did not look at all Armenian, but from northern France or Germany.

 

Hey phantom my ancestors from the 12th century told me that you are full of it.

Edited May 30, 2007 by phantom22

[annannimusss]

Sassun, maybe I missed it, but how did you become Muslim? And why did you become muslim? Are you going to take a muslim wife? And if you do how will this wife of yours be a Armenian and Muslim. Your kids will not be Armenian, but they will be Muslim and more than likely Arab.

[Arpa]

So Yervant 1, the spirits from the "other side" communicate with you as well.

 

In a gold clock that sat in my grandmother's childhood home were the ancestral papers of her family attesting to the fact that they were the direct descendants of the younger brother of the last king, King Levon of Armenia. Her family did not look at all Armenian, but from northern France or Germany.

Yeah, yeah right!

The CATHOLIC-OS is also CATHOLIC.

DUUUUUHHHH!

[Yervant1]

So Yervant 1, the spirits from the "other side" communicate with you as well.

 

In a gold clock that sat in my grandmother's childhood home were the ancestral papers of her family attesting to the fact that they were the direct descendants of the younger brother of the last king, King Levon of Armenia. Her family did not look at all Armenian, but from northern France or Germany.

I love this forget Islam forget Sassun this is the real topic for now, my clock was silver and no papers it was more like an animal skin that I read the writings from my ancestors they still say you are full of it.

BTW my ancestors were from the other brother of the last king, King of levon who's name was King Yervant.

[Sassun]

Sassun, maybe I missed it, but how did you become Muslim? And why did you become muslim?

Hi Sako

I told the story here.

 

Are you going to take a muslim wife?

No , I want to marry an Armenian , and our kids would learn about both Christianity and Islam , and when they grow up they can choose what they want to be. And I would like my kids to go to Armenian school.

 

[phantom22]

Arpa,

 

What kind of bigoted comment is that? I think that we shall send your comment to Kirk Kerkorian, a Hye Catholic. Perhaps he will instruct one of your neighbors in the Albany region to give you a tongue lashing!

 

 

Yeah, yeah right!

The CATHOLIC-OS is also CATHOLIC.

DUUUUUHHHH!

 

[Sassun]

Sassun I support you man, you can be a Satanist for all care, you said its a personal thing, well, keep it personal then, why do you need the approval of your fellow Armenians? If you are so sure you made the right choice? Why defend so staunchly in this forum? something isn’t right and you know it, I don’t think you had a good upbringing by you parents, and I'm 100% sure in a near future you going to jump the wagon again begging to let you back to the church (Armenian community) but one thing always remember, a men without a past is no men, it isn’t to late, there is always a room for redemption!

Am I wrong with what I said? I don’t think so, seen many like you and will yet see them, becerful and don’t play with your head, your life is ahead of you!

Just an advice or read my signature

Edward, why do I need the approval of your fellow Armenians ? Because I am a human being and human beings look for approval , acceptance , and so on. That is part of why people seek company , if they could get fulfillment in life by only being by themselves , there will be 6 billion hermits or something. We are social beings , we want to be part of society , a community (or more than one ) , we have identities , and some of the things we have grown up on , like patriotism , remain with us until our death . We are talking about human beings and not robots. Human beings have experiences that shape their perceptions and feelings.

 

I need the approval of my fellow Armenians because if they don't then it will not feel right, because I feel Armenian, and it is not right to be pushed away like this. Look, I can be Armenian and Muslim at the same time. Come on, why is it so hard for you to accept that? I told you about the manuscripts that my family has, they are Christian manuscripts, and I keep them for a reason, when I could have just handed them over to the Church or the Armenian Museum. I keep them because it is the only physical thing that is left of our homeland , and because it is part of my CHRISTIAN HERITAGE, and because it reminds me of who I am when I am blinded by the bitterness of being rejected by Armenians. One of the books is by KRIKOR NAREGATSI . Those books have witnessed the Genocide. If you will be able to force me to 'part' with the Armenian community for good, I will hold on to those books. Yeah, they witnessed the Genocide. So did my great-grandparents. Now you (not just you, but others too) can say I am not Armenian, you can try to hurt my feelings and accuse me of treason, but if I will give up on my Armenian identity based on these things , then I do not deserve to be called Armenian to begin with. Our great-grandparents suffered persecution and Genocide because they refused to be Turkified and refused to be subjugated, they walked the deserts and saw their loved ones butchered in front of their eyes . And they kept walking and they survived, no matter how painful it was. They kept their identity and passed it on to their children, to my parents, and my parents, to me. I have of course not met my great-grandparents nor any of my grandparents except my paternal grandmother Seta/Satenig, who told me the stories from the Genocide . Her father , who had survived the Genocide, had written a book , of his personal experiences , but I don't know where it is now, no one can find it.

 

I have grown up on tashnagtsagan / heghapokhagan songs. I cannot explain the feelings I have when I hear those songs , it makes me feel angry and sad (both for nationalistic reasons and also personal ones ) but also proud of our Fighters and Martyrs and hopeful that one day we will return to our land , and that one day I will go to where my great-grandparents used to live.

 

Maybe I have not had the best upbringing , but no one is perfect , and my parents are not to be blamed for it . My decisions are not those of my parents , they are mine , and I have reasons (aside from just believing in Islam ) for having converted. Will I 'convert back' ? I do not know what will happen in the future , but if I will, it will not be because people are rejecting me. Rejection will not push me away, neither from Islam nor from Armenianness. If I 'convert back' it would be for spiritual and religious reasons , and it is difficult for me to really identify with Christianity , spiritually/religiously , as 'my religion'. And who said the struggle to understand and identify with Christianity (when everyone my age seemed able to do so ) has been easy and painless ?

[Arpa]

Why do I write the way I do?

Is it because I don't give a rat's arse about religion and denomination?

Why can't everyone whatever the hell religion/mythology one believes in or don't, practice it in their inner sanctums and leave the public media alone?

I have, on many occasions told those damn Jehovah's to not knock at my door, as I don't give a damn what and how they believe, and they will not, no matter what, they will not get me interseted, as I am not looking to move from one mythology to another. My mythoogy is as good/bad as anyone else's. How does their shit smell any better than ours?

ThankYou!

For a young person to be so obsessed with religion?

Whatever happened to girls and sex, pursuit of that pot of honey?

Edited May 30, 2007 by Arpa

[Sip]

I have, on many occasions told those damn Jehovah's to not knock at my door, as I don't give a damn what and how they believe, and they will not, no matter what, they will not get me interseted ...

 

I kid you not! One time they showed up to my door ... I had been in Wisconsin for about 3 or 4 months. As soon as they said hello I said "Alllllaho Akbar not you guys again." ... they apologized, and never came back!!!!

[Sassun]

I kid you not! One time they showed up to my door ... I had been in Wisconsin for about 3 or 4 months. As soon as they said hello I said "Alllllaho Akbar not you guys again." ... they apologized, and never came back!!!!

:lol: See, at least it helped you with something.

 

Who/what are Jehovah's witnesses ? what do they believe in ??

Why does everyone hate them ?

Why do they go knocking on people's doors ?

How do you know they are Jehovah's witnesses (are they the only ones who go from door to door ) ?

 

 

[Sassun]

For a young person to be so obsessed with religion?

Whatever happened to girls and sex, pursuit of that pot of honey?

I think my parents would prefer if I stick to Islam than go after girls and (premarital?) sex.

Besides , i thought Armenian parents are conservative and dont approve of these things ?

Or is it just my parents ?

[Arpa]

I kid you not! One time they showed up to my door ... I had been in Wisconsin for about 3 or 4 months. As soon as they said hello I said "Alllllaho Akbar not you guys again." ... they apologized, and never came back!!!!

I have told them that they are too late by some 1700 years, and that we are coming back from that same road they think they have just discovered.

Go find some other morons/Mormons, Jehovah's/Jewhovah's whatever the sh**. As if on'e smells better than the other's

Edited May 30, 2007 by Arpa

[Sip]

Sassun, I don't know the answers to your jehova witness questions but I wanted to touch on something Arpa brought up earlier and to somewhat agree with you about Islam that is for a large part, a rather "rational" and practical religion. One of my fondest memories growing up in Iran was sitting in front of the TV for hours on end listening to the Mullahs' describe, in great detail, all the retaliation laws set forth in Islam.

 

Like if someone cuts your hand, you are allowed to cut their hand. But if they don't have a hand, you can remove a leg. But if they don't have arms or legs, you can remove some teeth etc etc.

 

I found it all fascinating (I still do).

Edited May 30, 2007 by Sip

[Arpa]

I think my parents would prefer if I stick to Islam than go after girls and (premarital?) sex.

Besides , i thought Armenian parents are conservative and dont approve of these things ?

Or is it just my parents ?

Your parents, just like many other parents are hypocrites.

What can be sweeter for a parent than to know that one's son's only and main dream is how to place his penis into a vagina.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Arpa

[Sassun]

Your parents, just like many other parents are hypocrites.

What can be sweeter for a parent than to know that one's son's only and main dream is hpw to place his penis into a vagina.

I did not get what you are trying to say.

Anyway , I do not care much about that. I'd much rather stick to religion and more 'intellectual' things.

[ArmoPhil]

Sassun, by putting the yeraguyn, you are showing that you are Christian. You wanna tell me why you do so? Edited May 30, 2007 by ArmoPhil

[Arpa]

I did not get what you are trying to say.

Anyway , I do not care much about that. I'd much rather stick to religion and more 'intellectual' things.

What you didn't get is your quote of "islam" v "premarital sex".

How does Islam or any other damn religion supersede a young man's urge of penetrating the aperture of the oppsite sex. I said" the opposite sex" mind you.

Long live hetero... down with all religions that deny our sons, and daughters the ecstasy of god/allah created SEX.

GET A LIFE!!!

Yes, yes I know. I diverted this thread to human nature. Not muslim, not christian, not catholic, not jehovah or moron, but HUMAN.

Shoot me if you will, but how does (normal) human nature differ between one or the other except that one insists that the penis is perfect as created by god/allah when the other insists it has to be modified.

This whole debate is not worth than if a f***ing penis is cut or whole.

How much ridiculously graphic and physical can a religion be?

Edited May 30, 2007 by Arpa

[Sassun]

Sassun, by putting the yeraguyn, you are showing that you are Christian. You wanna tell me why you do so?

ArmoPhil , by putting the Armenian flag , I am showing that I am Armenian.

If I put the cross , or the picture of Mary or Jesus , I would be SHOWING that I am Christian.

Maybe you should add a cross in the middle of the flag , to seal this issue once and for all , since Armenian and Christian are inseparable to you.

Then I would be, de jure, non-Armenian.

 

[ArmoPhil]

No , I want to marry an Armenian , and our kids would learn about both Christianity and Islam , and when they grow up they can choose what they want to be. And I would like my kids to go to Armenian school.

 

Your Kids will become Muslim. Following your footsteps. No Armenian woman would marry you. I have yet to see it happen. If it ever does, the plague has started. Slowly our community will eventually become Muslim. And I also have doubts that you live in Lebanon, it's the first time I see a Lebanese "Armenian" speak so well English..

Edited May 30, 2007 by ArmoPhil

[ArmoPhil]

ArmoPhil , by putting the Armenian flag , I am showing that I am Armenian.

If I put the cross , or the picture of Mary or Jesus , I would be SHOWING that I am Christian.

Maybe you should add a cross in the middle of the flag , to seal this issue once and for all , since Armenian and Christian are inseparable to you.

Then I would be, de jure, non-Armenian.

The Armenian flag itself represents Christianity. There's no need for a Cross. Like I've posted previously, "The Red emblematizes the Armenian Highland, the Armenian people's continued struggle for survival, maintenance of the CHRISTIAN FAITH, Armenia's independence and freedom. The Blue emblematizes the will of the people of Armenia to live beneath peaceful skies. The Orange emblematizes the creative talent and hard-working nature of the people of Armenia."

[Sassun]

Your Kids will become Muslim. Following the footsteps of his dad. No Armenian woman would marry you. I have yet to see it happen. If it ever does, the plague has started. Slowly our community will eventually become Muslim. I'm sure in Lebanon, you are left out by the Armenian community. You're probably in the south smoking Shisha with the rest of the Muslims.

I read somewhere (don't remember where) that in Artsakh there are some mixed Muslim-Armenian families and they are still in Artsakh after the war . I'll try to find the link for you .

[Sassun]

The Armenian flag itself represents Christianity. There's no need for a Cross. Like I've posted previously, "The Red emblematizes the Armenian Highland, the Armenian people's continued struggle for survival, maintenance of the CHRISTIAN FAITH, Armenia's independence and freedom. The Blue emblematizes the will of the people of Armenia to live beneath peaceful skies. The Orange emblematizes the creative talent and hard-working nature of the people of Armenia."

Where did you see me call for the elimination of the Christian faith ?

In fact I said the opposite: I support the idea of Christianity as official state religion of Armenia.

So you can maintain the Christian faith. And I am proud of my Christian heritage.

And you can repeat that paragraph until time eternal but it will not say anything about whether or not I can be considered Armenian .

[Sip]

I said" the opposite sex" mind you. Long live hetero...

 

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/btb/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/GayHangingIran.jpg

 

Well at least as far as the hetero thing is concerned, they do try hard to encourage it. Maybe a bit too hard.

 

[Arpa]

ArmoPhil , by putting the Armenian flag , I am showing that I am Armenian.

If I put the cross , or the picture of Mary or Jesus , I would be SHOWING that I am Christian.

Maybe you should add a cross in the middle of the flag , to seal this issue once and for all , since Armenian and Christian are inseparable to you.

Then I would be, de jure, non-Armenian.

Yeah, yeah. You are Armenian.

We believe everything you say. How about you dispay the green flag of Islam with the sword, or the red flag of mehmet with the crescent and the star.

In conclusion.

Sassun, you are confusd beyond the limit of any one here can help.

Please seek professional counseling and help.

And please tell your counselor how you were taunted and tortured as a "sh'fet ermeni" and "beni basturma".

Who are those parents that don't celebrate the occasion when their son is caught masrurbating at a picture of a (nude) girl?

Edited May 30, 2007 by Arpa

[Sassun]

What you didn't get is your quote of "islam" v "premarital sex".

How does Islam or any other damn religion supersede a young man's urge of penetrating the aperture of the oppsite sex. I said" the opposite sex" mind you.

Long live hetero... down with all religions that deny our sons, and daughters the ecstasy of god/allah created SEX.

GET A LIFE!!!

Yes, yes I know. I diverted this thread to human nature. Not muslim, not christian, not catholic, not jehovah or moron, but HUMAN.

Shoot me if you will, but how does (normal) human nature differ between one or the other except that one insists that the penis is perfect as created by god/allah when the other insists it has to be modified.

This whole debate is not worth than if a f***ing penis is cut or whole.

How much ridiculously graphic and physical can a religion be?

Arpa

Human nature does not differ, of course.

We all have 'urges'. But some of us choose to curb them. Sexuality is not so much taboo in Islam , and I am sure you know this. But there are limits to everything .

Actually , Shi'ite Muslims have something called "zawaj mutaa" (marriage of pleasure) which is 'temporary' marriage between consenting adults . The Sunnis do not have this and say that we have created this out of the blue ..