Boghos Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Ladies, gentlemen, I am afraid that we have here another case of hagaragitis.Sassun just wants attention.What he needs is a girlfriend or boyfriend, or both, as hagarag would say.He should take off his jalabya and go back to civilization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 This isn't a rule of Chirstianity because it isn't written anywhere in the Bible. It is not Jesus' fault if some Christian leaders distorted the message of Christianity. Where is it written that killing a Christian is the duty of every Muslim and the path to heaven ? Is Islam innocent of Bin Laden's acts ? Or no ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 (edited) Ladies, gentlemen, I am afraid that we have here another case of hagaragitis.Sassun just wants attention.What he needs is a girlfriend or boyfriend, or both, as hagarag would say.He should take off his jalabya and go back to civilization. Who/what is hagarag ? I need a boyfriend ?!?!?!?! That is sick!!!! (I'd much rather stick to having 4 zokanches hahaha) I do not wear jalabiyah. I hope you did not all think that I wear one........... i wear regular stuff... like jeans / dress pants and shirt .. I do not care for attention from anyone, only from God. And speaking of civilization , I live in the "mahd al hadarat" , cradle of civilizations, the fertile crescent. And you live in the jungle. Maybe you should move here. Edited June 1, 2007 by Sassun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annannimusss Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I am not happy, but since you are a traitor, you are now considered a Turk and not an Armenian. Your topic title, Muslim Armenian? No such thing, the reason any Armenian who calls himself a muslim is not a Armenian after all, just another Turk, not an arab, but a Turk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 (edited) I am not happy, but since you are a traitor, you are now considered a Turk and not an Armenian. Your topic title, Muslim Armenian? No such thing, the reason any Armenian who calls himself a muslim is not a Armenian after all, just another Turk, not an arab, but a Turk. ٍSo now after you decide that I am not Armenian , you also decide the specifics of what I am and should be ? So since I am a Muslim , and "not an Armenian" , and despite living in Lebanon and speaking Arabic , I end up being considered "more accurately" a Turk , rather than an Arab? Interesting. Or is it, I wonder, because your admission that I might be considered Arab , would be equal to an admission that being a Muslim is not necessarily automatically equal to being a traitor to my people (since I think you yourself said that Arabs took us in and treated us well, etc. ) ? Btw, if you are going to be a Der Hayr and give such treatment to those who might stray from the official line a bit (for whatever reason, especially personal issues ) , continuing in the tradition of shooting-ourselves-in-the-foot by our rejection of anything tiny that might violate our fixed mindsets, then is it any wonder we lost the Avarairi jagadamard (but let me guess, it was a paroyagan haghtanag ) ? One last thing, doesn't your equation also imply that Anoushik would have to be considered a Turk? (note that it is not I who is throwing accusations of treason left and right, everyone is entitled to believe in whatever religion they want , or not believe at all, and for me that would not have any implications on their loyalty to their nation and people ). You are defining Armenianness in much the same way as the Jews define Jewishness. How more backward could that be ? Do you not have any idea about the modern concept of nationalism , of belonging to the nation-state (and whither secularism ? Is your conceptualization of Armenia one wherein there would be only religious zealots as citizens or members of the nation , and only zealots nothing else ? ) ? What about the concept equality regardless of religious beliefs ? Your restricted notion of what Armenianness must mean and be defined as , borders on fascism . Good luck to you, and bye! Edited June 1, 2007 by Sassun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Circles , circles and more circles. IMO anything and everything that needed to be said about this topic is said and done with, let us move on and give this thread a rest. We don't need Islam 101 to complete the semester so please Sassun stop the preaching and the rest let it be. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 what is the world coming to ....oh man sassun (apsos vor et anunne unes) listen buddy, buy a ticket and go to Hayastan, stop at surp Gayaneh church in Etchmiatsin and in the back there is a cemetery, take a hard look.. and if your still convinced you want islam then your no Armenian, just someone who is here for purpose other wise this senseless thread has gone to far and long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Your topic title, Muslim Armenian? No such thing, the reason any Armenian who calls himself a muslim is not a Armenian after all, just another Turk, not an arab, but a Turk. Amen. Case closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 (edited) Circles , circles and more circles. IMO anything and everything that needed to be said about this topic is said and done with, let us move on and give this thread a rest. We don't need Islam 101 to complete the semester so please Sassun stop the preaching and the rest let it be. Thanks Yes, isn't it sad that it has gone round and round in circles ? That is what happens when people evade a real discussion on this very important issue (to me, personally ) ,, and continue repeating the age old argument, that a convert to Islam is a traitor. If I had seen one good argument on this issue , I would have accepted it and admitted I was in the wrong , and converted back. But all I have seen is robot-like repetition of the same sentence. That is the outcome of brainwashing in our schools . Oh well. It seems that Artsakhtsis, who have suffered PERSONALLY (as opposed to the new generations , grandchildren of survivors of the Genocide ) at the hands of the azeri-turks are far more accepting of this issue . Maybe one day our youth will learn to broaden their horizons . Maybe. And as for me, i am done with this thread. I got my response, and accept , as I said, that you will not accept me as an Armenian. If anyone feels the urge to add their 2 cents , and accuse me yet again of being a traitor , feel free to do so , but do not expect a response from me. Anyway , you do not deserve one ,in my opinion. I have gone on for too long pampering you and your hateful responses. God is the ultimate Judge and he knows what is in people's hearts . That is my only consolation. And for you, your consolation has nothing to do with the religion in whose name you are waging a 'holy' battle against me. I only wish you knew more about Christianity , but it seems people often forget (conveniently ) that Christianity is about acceptance, forgiveness and tolerance . Perhaps you should read some of the responses in this thread, to see what kind of responses I was hoping to read. Too bad that most of what I ended up hearing is the same line repeated over and over again at the mouth of different people . Makes one wonder if our education system prepares us for critical thinking , or for accepting only what we are spoonfed. I must add here my thanks to some of the people who truly wanted to discuss this issue , Yervant1 , Ak-47 , Armenak , Arpa (though you are very aggressive for me sometimes ) , Sip (you scared me with your 4 zokanches post ) , Johannes etc. Edited June 2, 2007 by Sassun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 ..and continue repeating the age old argument, that a convert to Islam is a traitor. If I had seen one good argument on this issue.. How about this argument: I-slam has been the bane of Armenias existence for over a thousand years. Time and time again our ancestors have been put to the sword under the cry of "Allah'u'Abkar!!". Saudi Arabia and Pakistan still have not recognised Armenia in solidarity with their Azeri brothers and sisters. Are they your brothers too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoPhil Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Sassun, would you ever re-convert to Christianity to be accepted by your own people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoPhil Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Yes, isn't it sad that it has gone round and round in circles ? That is what happens when people evade a real discussion on this very important issue (to me, personally ) ,, and continue repeating the age old argument, that a convert to Islam is a traitor. If I had seen one good argument on this issue , I would have accepted it and admitted I was in the wrong , and converted back. But all I have seen is robot-like repetition of the same sentence. That is the outcome of brainwashing in our schools . Oh well. It seems that Artsakhtsis, who have suffered PERSONALLY (as opposed to the new generations , grandchildren of survivors of the Genocide ) at the hands of the azeri-turks are far more accepting of this issue . Maybe one day our youth will learn to broaden their horizons . Maybe. And as for me, i am done with this thread. I got my response, and accept , as I said, that you will not accept me as an Armenian. If anyone feels the urge to add their 2 cents , and accuse me yet again of being a traitor , feel free to do so , but do not expect a response from me. Anyway , you do not deserve one ,in my opinion. I have gone on for too long pampering you and your hateful responses. God is the ultimate Judge and he knows what is in people's hearts . That is my only consolation. And for you, your consolation has nothing to do with the religion in whose name you are waging a 'holy' battle against me. I only wish you knew more about Christianity , but it seems people often forget (conveniently ) that Christianity is about acceptance, forgiveness and tolerance . Perhaps you should read some of the responses in this thread, to see what kind of responses I was hoping to read. Too bad that most of what I ended up hearing is the same line repeated over and over again at the mouth of different people . Makes one wonder if our education system prepares us for critical thinking , or for accepting only what we are spoonfed. I must add here my thanks to some of the people who truly wanted to discuss this issue , Yervant1 , Ak-47 , Armenak , Arpa (though you are very aggressive for me sometimes ) , Sip (you scared me with your 4 zokanches post ) , Johannes etc. The Ultimate Judge says we all go to Hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annannimusss Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Something happened to this guy for him to convert to Islam. Too bad he does not see what we see in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoPhil Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Something happened to this guy for him to convert to Islam. Too bad he does not see what we see in him. He says Islam makes him feel different than Christianity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Circles , circles and more circles. Yes Yervant, Yes. I only sincerely hope that our dear friend Sassun will eventually find that if there is ever an "answer" to be found, it sure isn't Islam or any human system for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Something happened to this guy for him to convert to Islam. Too bad he does not see what we see in him. He might have attended this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Never get tired of THAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahan79 Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Hi guys, Long time no see. I wanted to discuss the question of whether or not as Armenians you would consider an Armenian convert to Islam as an Armenian? If yes, why, and if no, why not? (I wanted to add a poll but I don't know why it didn't work.) Sorry, but this question makes very little sense. Are you overcome with a belief in the Qur'an and the prophet Mohammad? If so, it seems you are already a Muslim. If not, you aren't. Conscious decisions to change religions (I am assuming you are Christian) seem odd and forced. Why Islam, anyway? Baha'i is much better if you are just trying to find another religion. I guess I'm saying that if these are your beliefs, why should you let your ethnicity prevent you from salvation? If they are NOT your beliefs, then you are making a conscience effort to force them to become your beliefs, which is odd (though common) and not recommendable. Either way, your question becomes moot. Which brings me to another point. Conversion usually happens for one of two reasons: (1) marriage [in which case it's disingenuous]; and (2) boredom with one's current faith [in which case it's just sad. how many whities run out and become Buddhist because it is "trendy" and "exotic". Is Islam your exotic "mix it up" choice, Sassun. If so, I'd say "no! don't do it!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahan79 Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 what is the world coming to ....oh man sassun (apsos vor et anunne unes) listen buddy, buy a ticket and go to Hayastan, stop at surp Gayaneh church in Etchmiatsin and in the back there is a cemetery, take a hard look.. and if your still convinced you want islam then your no Armenian, just someone who is here for purpose other wise this senseless thread has gone to far and long I don't agree with this. Armenians (according to our own legend) converted to Christianity because some king dude forced it upon us all because of a superstitutious belief that a saint cured him from being a pig (which by the way has NO Biblican support or relation to Christianity whatsoever). Bottom line: Tiridates III forced us all to convert to Christianity based on a superstitous encounter with a priest in 3rd century AD. Our history dates back WAY before that. Thus, there is nothing intrisically "Armenian" about "Christianity." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoPhil Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 He might have attended this. ROFLMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted June 3, 2007 Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 I don't agree with this. Armenians (according to our own legend) converted to Christianity because some king dude forced it upon us all because of a superstitutious belief that a saint cured him from being a pig (which by the way has NO Biblican support or relation to Christianity whatsoever). Bottom line: Tiridates III forced us all to convert to Christianity based on a superstitous encounter with a priest in 3rd century AD. Our history dates back WAY before that. Thus, there is nothing intrisically "Armenian" about "Christianity." lets not confuse our own brand of faith with any other chiristians, being uniqe in traditions, retuals and many other ways! today christianity amplifies both; todays, and that of pre-chrisian era (paganism). Adaptations through out in a very sort time are intigrated with-in our sociaity (Armenian) thus giving rise to unique blend of faith only identifies with us, evidence can been seen in most if not all sectors of our culture. I for one would have a very hard time imagining at 21st century without our church IE Christianity or vs-versa! if you think of vartavar, hambartsum, barikentan and many other observations are prove other then adopting Christianity for what ever reasons Trdat did, alternative would have been complete distraction of Armenia and her people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted June 3, 2007 Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 He might have attended this. LMAO!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annannimusss Posted June 3, 2007 Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 Vahan, the blood in your veins right now that makes you Armenian is there because of the church. How can you say what you say knowing that without the Armenian Church there wouldn't be any Armenians, only Persians or worse,Turks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahan79 Posted June 3, 2007 Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 Vahan, the blood in your veins right now that makes you Armenian is there because of the church. How can you say what you say knowing that without the Armenian Church there wouldn't be any Armenians, only Persians or worse,Turks. Hmm...I see your point, but I don't know that simply because the Church as an institution has been involved in our preservation that we should commit our souls to damnation if we don't believe that it is the true source of salvation by God. Don't get me wrong, I still go to the Armenian Church and believe in it. Also, it's annoying to me that there are two armenian church sects. we are becoming catholics/protestants/etc. has there been a post about that? I need to check.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annannimusss Posted June 3, 2007 Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 Vahan, here is one of those many conversations. http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=15950 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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