ArmoPhil Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 He did not killl a Tashnag member !!!!!!!! Or any Armenian !!! Monte was a real TASHNAGTSAGAN , he was critical of the defeatist methods of the A.R. F and the faction of the ASALA that he split from !! I'm not the one who said he did.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Alright just because Monte killed 1 Dashnak Member we have to start blaming him for the deaths of Christian Armenians? Send me a reference if you can, I've been trying to find any sources that say Monte has killed a Dashnak Member. Not that I don't believe you, I just want to make sure. I didn't blame him on the death of Armenians, I was just pointing out that you shouldn't glorify him like that. He is not the only one who fought in Lebanon.. Dashnak members were the one who organized most of the thing and young people took turns to hold guns everyday to act as guards. And i'm not sure about any of the stuff on Monte and killing of Armenians as I am basing myself pretty much on a few AYF members but I am pretty sure ASALA as a whole killed some fellow Armenians. If Monte was included in the planning or not, i have no clue. As for a source to ASALA's targeting of Dashnak officials, I know this http://www.tkb.org/Incident.jsp?incID=4505 . For the Iran vs Jewistan + America subject, I'm confident that the IDF would stand their ground against Iran. They have an overwhelming technical lead over Iran, and the almost unconditional support of the US. They'd do just fine. The state of Israel won't go into direct combat with Iran. Maybe a few airstrikes but nothing serious. America will try and do the dirty work IF it happens (highly unlikely so far as I and others have previously explained to why). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 he was critical of the defeatist methods of the A.R. F Actually, the ARF is anything but defeatist. It always aims for the most extreme goals and is against anything that looks like a defeat (return of Azeri regions outside Artsakh for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) Actually, the ARF is anything but defeatist. It always aims for the most extreme goals and is against anything that looks like a defeat (return of Azeri regions outside Artsakh for example). that was not the point AK-47 . by defeatism i meant a whole different thing , and that is , the policy at one point that Armenians should try to change international opinion and expect the world to give us our rights rather than take our rights by ourselves. in this sense he was the pioneer in reformulating ARF position re : Artsakh ! Btw i am talking about the A.R.F in Lebanon at that particular point in time !! re : the hagopian gang !! Edited June 10, 2007 by Sassun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 that was not the point AK-47 . by defeatism i meant a whole different thing , and that is , the policy at one point that Armenians should try to change international opinion and expect the world to give us our rights rather than take our rights by ourselves. in this sense he was the pioneer in reformulating ARF position re : Artsakh ! Oh alright, then I agree with if you mean it that way. While i find it important to have a positive international opinion about our actions, no one truly cares about us on the base of realpolitik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Oh alright, then I agree with if you mean it that way. While i find it important to have a positive international opinion about our actions, no one truly cares about us on the base of realpolitik. yes. anyway , the split in ASALA was party based on this (and also the idea of killing innocent people,aside from the bad image it gave ) and Monte was against indiscriminate attacks , while the hagopian gang went on rampage , including against dissidents . if those AYF guys are truly AYF then this is worrisome , i was not aware that the hagopian trend is still there ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) You have been completely brain washed by the anti-semitic media. You are making all that up. LOL. Visit Lebanon and see for yourself. Hezbollah is a popular and legitimate social organization. Criticizing Zionism and Israel does not make one anti-semitic. Think twice before you slap "anti-Semitic" on a person, group, or media outlet. Edited June 10, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) Criticizing Zionism and Israel does not make one anti-semitic. Think twice before you slap "anti-Semitic" on a person, group, or media outlet. Speaking of that word, another minor work of Zionism includes the word "Anti-Semitism". They have made sure to monopolize the word, yet last I heard of, Arabs were Semites as well. Why do they deserve the monopoly of the word "anti-Semitism"...why can't it be "Anti-Judaism" or "Judeophobia"? Why do they have to have a "special word"? So many questions that the world turns a blind eye to. Edited June 10, 2007 by AK-47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Criticizing Zionism and Israel does not make one anti-semitic. Oh but criticizing Hezb Allah makes one a "Zionist", right? You are very quick to throw lables at people but it isn't so much fun when they fire back in your own style, is it? Hopefully my posts have made you realize how stupid your own posts sound when you go around and call people "Zionist" and brain washed just because they don't particularly care for your Hezb Allah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) Oh but criticizing Hezb Allah makes one a "Zionist", right? You are very quick to throw lables at people but it isn't so much fun when they fire back in your own style, is it? Hopefully my posts have made you realize how stupid your own posts sound when you go around and call people "Zionist" and brain washed just because they don't particularly care for your Hezb Allah. Here is a quote from a comment you made earlier: "Hezb Allah didn't win anything. They use civilians as their shields and hide among innocent people..." The reason why I said you shouldn't believe everything the Zionist media tells you is that the claim you make (that Hezbollah used human shields) is complete wartime propaganda and untrue. The civilians ARE the Hezbollah. You have no idea what media I read. But the fact that you made the above claim made it clear your sources are the likes of CNN or Fox News. I never called anyone in this forum a Zionist. I called Wolf Blitzer a Zionist (CNN anchor); I called Wolfowitz a Zionist (US secretary of Defense) ; I called Richard Perle (lobbyist and "political adviser) a Zionist. (Check out the biography of Wolfowitz on Wikipedia to give you an idea of his personal history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wolfowitz) Edited June 10, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I never called anyone in this forum a Zionist. I called Wolf Blitzer a Zionist (CNN anchor); I called Wolfowitz a Zionist (US secretary of Defense) ; I called Richard Perle (lobbyist and "political adviser) a Zionist. Speaking of Mr. Wolfy, check this out. It's an old clip where Wolfboy reveals his Zionist views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I never called anyone in this forum a Zionist. For the record, I never called you an anti-semite either. I was very careful to use the same kinds of words that you have been using (i.e. "You have been completely brain washed by the anti-semitic media.") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 For those of you that are not too familiar with the US, "CNN" is not exactly a "respected" news media around here. The more intelligent liberal minded people definitely know a lot better than get their news from Fox or CNN, and the red-neck hick types have a huge distrust of these "liberal" media outlets. What's funny is what you arabized types call "zionist media", a lot of people here in the US call "liberal media" (with very negative connotations). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 For those of you that are not too familiar with the US, "CNN" is not exactly a "respected" news media around here. The more intelligent liberal minded people definitely know a lot better than get their news from Fox or CNN, and the red-neck hick types have a huge distrust of these "liberal" media outlets. What's funny is what you arabized types call "zionist media", a lot of people here in the US call "liberal media" (with very negative connotations). LOL. "Arabized" types. You are now starting to throw insults. Don't know why you're getting personal in defending Zionist wartime propaganda... Tell us, then: if not CNN or Fox News where did you get your information that the Hezbollah uses "human shields"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Speaking of Mr. Wolfy, check this out. It's an old clip where Wolfboy reveals his Zionist views. Nice, thanks for sharing that Քլաշին: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoPhil Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) Who cares about CNN? You don't even know if we watch CNN and you blame us for watching Zionistic news. Like I have mentioned earlier. You can have a political group WITHOUT having a militia. What's with the bull shit "Hezbollah is the people of Lebanon"? That's bullcrap. They only help the Muslim families in Southern Lebanon. Not the Christian ones. Have your own political party, show your ideology, see if people agree with you, then you may get your votes and get elected. There's no need for Armed Guerillas. Hezbollah is undemocratic. They are as racist as the Israelis. I don't see Hezbollah donating money to Christian Hospitals or helping Christian families. It's all about helping Muslim families only. They want to Islamize everything. Women to be forced to wear the Hijab like in Iran and all. So much for Lebanon being the Switzerland of the Middle East. Edited June 10, 2007 by ArmoPhil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) Who cares about CNN? You don't even know if we watch CNN and you blame us for watching Zionistic news. Like I have mentioned earlier. You can have a political group WITHOUT having a militia. What's with the bull shit "Hezbollah is the people of Lebanon"? That's bullcrap. I never said the Hezbollah represent ALL of the Lebanese people; but they represent a significant PART of the Lebanese people. Have your own political party, show your ideology, see if people agree with you, then you may get your votes and get elected. They're already passed that stage... There's no need for Armed Guerillas. Of course there is. Only a standing army can secure the PHYSICAL existence of a people. Without a standing army, you get something like 1915. Hezbollah is undemocratic. Who are you/we to dictate how another group of people organizes themselves? Only the people can decide what form of government they want. They are as racist as the Israelis. I don't see Hezbollah donating money to Christian Hospitals or helping Christian families. It's all about helping Muslim families only. Do Americans build schools in France? Don't Armenians build schools for Armenians in Lebanon? Don't Jews build Jewish school, Hebrew universities, even "Museums of Tolerance" in the U.S.? What is wrong with Hezbollah providing to their own? They want to Islamize everything. Women to be forced to wear the Hijab like in Iran and all. Every culture has their own traditions. That you want Muslims NOT to wear a Hijab is imposing YOUR traditions on another group of people, and hence you're trying to "Westernize" everything. GOLDEN RULE! So much for Lebanon being the Switzerland of the Middle East. It's still an awesome place; and will be better once we install those video-surveillance to catch the Zionist spies in action planting those bombs! A video camera in every corner of Beirut! Edited June 10, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoPhil Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I never said the Hezbollah represent ALL of the Lebanese people; but they represent a significant PART of the Lebanese people. They're already passed that stage... Of course there is. Only a standing army can secure the PHYSICAL existence of a people. Who are you to dictate how another group of people organizes themselves? Only the people can decide what form of government they want. Do Americans build schools in France? Don't Armenians build schools for Armenians in Lebanon? Don't Jews build Jewish school, Hebrew universities, even "Museums of Tolerance" in the U.S.? What is wrong with Hezbollah providing to their own? Every culture has their own traditions. That you want Muslims NOT to wear a Hijab is imposing YOUR traditions on another group of people, and hence you're trying to "Westernize" everything. GOLDEN RULE! It's still an awesome place; and will be better once we install those video-surveillance to catch the Zionist spies in action planting those bombs. If they already passed that stage, then the people don't want them. It finishes there. That's what democracy is. Not trying to overthrow your own government so you can take over like PMOI is trying to do in Iran. And also, you had NEVER mentioned that Hezbollah represented significantly a Part of the Lebanese people. Is the Lebanese government imposing any traditional stuff on the Muslims? The president himself is an Armenian/Lebanese Christian. Secularism is a key to peace. Try Islamizing Lebanon, see if their will not be a second Civil War. Watch the Maronites uprise if it ever happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) If they already passed that stage, then the people don't want them. It finishes there. What are you talking about? The Hezbollah ARE the Lebanese Shias. That's what democracy is. Not trying to overthrow your own government so you can take over like PMOI is trying to do in Iran. Don't know what you're talking about here. The Hezbollah is fighting the Zionist army attacking their homes, not the Lebanese Army. Hezbollah has elected MPs in government. Is the Lebanese government imposing any traditional stuff on the Muslims? No. Neither are imposing anything on the other! Armenians and Maronites I know in Lebanon are living without any imposing of anything on them by Muslims. There have not been any "forced conversions" of any kind. What are you talking about? Edited June 10, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 The misconceptions about Lebanon are unbelievable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) They only help the Muslim families in Southern Lebanon. Not the Christian ones. So tell me , when was the last time you were in Lebanon ??? HezbAllah services extend to everyone in the areas they are available in , including Christians. Many Christians prefer to use Hezb Allah founded hospitals , and Hezb Allah has paid Christians and Muslims equally for reparations for the war. They were handing over stacks of dollars (multiple 1000s ) to non-veiled women , many of them CHRISTIAN. I was THERE when they were doing that , and saw it with my own eyes. Now tell me who/what you are basing your information on. It is unbelievable how people try to market their false assumptions as facts. One would think , when one hears them out , that they have lived all their lives in Lebanon and interacted with Muslims . For example, they will talk about so-called conversions , so -called forceful Islamization of the country, so-called forcing Christians out of the country when any conversions are voluntary , the country is not Islamized (the political system is 50/50 and the Christians have the advantage of being far more homogenous than Muslims , and can therefore have a bigger coalition , if they have the spine not to sell out their people for their seats like the Kata'eb and LF have done ) , and no one is forcing Christians out of the country except the idiocy of the Christians and their unwillingness to live in the country ! When the entire South , Beqaa and South Beirut were being carpet bombed, it was the Christians , in untouched Christians areas , who lined up in hordes to "flee" the country. Countries are for those who will live in them. if the Christians care so much about the country let them stay , and stop blaming everything on , first the Palestinians, then "the Muslims ". This is typical Kata'eb / LF and in particular Samir Geagea rhetoric . The fascism is unbelievable . Aoun has transcended this type of rhetoric and mode of thinking , and has put his finger on the problem : the Christian leadership (including the Maronite Church / Patriarch ) have been responsible for the predicament of the Christians !!! But it seems people living oceans away are "more Papal than the Pope "! Edited June 10, 2007 by Sassun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) If they already passed that stage, then the people don't want them. It finishes there. That's what democracy is. Not trying to overthrow your own government so you can take over like PMOI is trying to do in Iran. And also, you had NEVER mentioned that Hezbollah represented significantly a Part of the Lebanese people. Is the Lebanese government imposing any traditional stuff on the Muslims? The president himself is an Armenian/Lebanese Christian. Secularism is a key to peace. Try Islamizing Lebanon, see if their will not be a second Civil War. Watch the Maronites uprise if it ever happens. Really ? So since you are sure the people don't want them , why don't you tell me more about the political system in Lebanon ? Also, define "Islamizing". Is the fact that a Muslim woman chooses to wear the Hijab or the Chador , or that Muslims pray 3/5 times a day , and go to Friday sermon , what you mean by "Islamizing"? So what you are saying is that Muslims should drop all that, and start going to pubs / bars / clubs ? Do you know what secularism means , by any chance ?? Edited June 10, 2007 by Sassun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) Btw it seems that the Israelis are getting ready to strike Iran. This proves my theory that they are stupid . Anyway , I cannot wait to see them commit another blunder , especially that this time around it will lead to the destruction of much of Tel Aviv , the pride of the greedy zionists . I think even the Iranians would be willing to make the tradeoff betw. Bushehr & Tel Aviv. Edited June 10, 2007 by Sassun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Btw it seems that the Israelis are getting ready to strike Iran. I know both sides have been getting "ready" but I really hope this "getting ready" you are referring to is only part of some usual fronting and nothing serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I know both sides have been getting "ready" but I really hope this "getting ready" you are referring to is only part of some usual fronting and nothing serious. I don't think so... We all know what happened in 1981 don't we. Except that, as the saying goes, Iran is not Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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