Armenian Contributions

[HyeFedayis]

Anyone know any contributions Armenians made through out the world here are some.

 

-After a great earthquake in 989 ruined the dome of Hagia Sophia, the Byzantine officials summoned Trdat to Byzantium to organize repairs. The restored dome was completed by 994.

 

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9745/300pxayasofyawv2.jpg

 

-Mikoyan a Russian military aircraft design bureau, the founder was Armenian and the creator of the jets.

 

http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/7971/350pxmig29launchingaa10ue9.jpg

 

German MiG-29 firing an R-27 missile

 

Those are some main ones (Maybe the only ones lol) theres alot during the ancient times though kings etc.

[Dave]

The Ottoman architect, Mimar Sinan, was of Armenian origin. He is often considered the best Islamic architect:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimar_Sinan

 

He build mosques such as the Suleymaniye:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/76/Suleiman_Mosque.jpg

 

The Balyan family was also notable in its mosques, churches, and palaces:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balyan_family

 

There are many, many other contributions that Armenians did and are still doing.

[irlandahay]

The Ottoman architect, Mimar Sinan, was of Armenian origin. He is often considered the best Islamic architect:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimar_Sinan

 

He build mosques such as the Suleymaniye:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/76/Suleiman_Mosque.jpg

 

The Balyan family was also notable in its mosques, churches, and palaces:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balyan_family

 

There are many, many other contributions that Armenians did and are still doing.

 

thats not all the balyan family did.

 

where do you think balyan in the hollywood movie kingdom of heaven comes from?

 

il give you a hint, hes sure as hell not french.

[zurderer]

I read some news about balyan family. It says balyan family is not architect but bussiness man who made these buildings.(I have some suspect about this news, It only comes from one man.)

 

Biggest armenian contribution to turkish culture is their help to clasic Turkish music. ironic.

 

Also calling mimar sinan as armenian is unnecessary. He was ottoman.

Edited January 3, 2007 by zurderer

[Boghos]

How about Agop Dilacar?

[phantom22]

There is proof that Mimar Sinan (AKA Hovsep) was in contact with his Armenian family in a small village outside of Kayseri long after he was Ottomanized. He was able to convince the Sultan not to transfer his Armenian family members to Cyprus with the rest of the Armenians scheduled to be transferred. The names of these persons are Armenian and not Greek names per an article in the Royal Asiatic Society Journal of Britain & Ireland, dated 1937, which is based upon research in the Ottoman Archives

 

 

I read some news about balyan family. It says balyan family is not architect but bussiness man who made these buildings.(I have some suspect about this news, It only comes from one man.)

 

Biggest armenian contribution to turkish culture is their help to clasic Turkish music. ironic.

 

Also calling mimar sinan as armenian is unnecessary. He was ottoman.

Edited January 3, 2007 by phantom22

[zurderer]

I am not saying he has not armenian blood.(It is know, armenians are good architects.) I am he was ottoman.

 

Like abdulhamit 2, he have armenian blood too, but I am sure that none of you will call him as armenian.

[Armenak]

Mikoyan aside, I don't consider any name mentioned in this thread so far as Armenian.

[phantom22]

Hey Zurderer,

 

The men of my family were Ottomans also, and had Turkish names not Armenian names. They were Catholic however. They were still they killed in 1915?

 

 

Mikoyan aside, I don't consider any name mentioned in this thread so far as Armenian.

[Arpa]

I am not saying he has not armenian blood.(It is know, armenians are good architects.) I am he was ottoman.

 

Like abdulhamit 2, he have armenian blood too, but I am sure that none of you will call him as armenian.

Get the f*** out of here!

Abdulhamid had Armenianblood alright! He had Armenian blood all over his UGLY FACE.

That myth of his "Armenian blood" comes from the hateful Turkish psyche, who realizing that Hamid was so ugly, only fitting an "Armenian/Ermeni" created that myth and dubbed the sonaofabitch with the nickname of "bedros".

Wait till the real "bedrosses" show you what the real "BEDROS" is really like when we make your Hamids and their f****n mothers ... cry.

Your mother, that kanli kanjik/bloody bitch has "Armenian blood".

You will only know when we make that kanli kanjik bleed to death.

Edited January 4, 2007 by Arpa

[Armenak]

Zurderer is Armenian too.

[Hellektor]

Like abdulhamit 2, he have armenian blood too, but I am sure that none of you will call him as armenian.

Abdulhamid's mother was Armenian alright but the thing is she died when the monster was still a whelp.

 

This is the bad luck of the Armenians. Had she lived longer, maybe she could raise him as a human being with feelings and even sympathetic to the Armenians.

 

The thing is, the sultan had dozens (even hundreds) of women in his harem and the dog didn't know its master (This is a saying that implies confusion in a crowd, it may also have a Turkish equivalent). This way the sultan might not even know how many whelps he had or which whelp came from which one of his sex slaves.

[Hellektor]

Anyone know any contributions Armenians made through out the world here are some.

I usually post this bit from an article by Şule Perinçek:

 

The first actress in Turkey was Arousiak Papazian.

The first musical organization, the Eastern Musical Company, was founded by Tigran Choukhajian who also wrote the first Turkish operetta.

The first orchestra in Istanbul was founded by Grigor Sinanian whose brother Haroutiuon Sinanian wrote the anthem for the Young Turks (how ironic...).

The first sculptor in Turkey is Yervand Oskan.

Edgar Manas, who arranged the "Hymn for independence" for the Turkish Republic founded the first female choir in Turkey.

Marie Louise, the daughter of Bogos Garagash who opened the first florist in Istanbul, is the first female Opera singer in Turkey.

Petros Kerestejian prepared the first (and the only) Turkish etymological dictionary. He translated Karl Marx's Manifesto in Turkish, in1847.

The first Turkish satirical monthly was published in 1852 by Hovsep Vardanian.

The first printing house in Izmir (Smyrna) was founded in 1759 by an Armenian named Markos.

The feminist movement in Turkey was pioneered be Haikanoush Mark.

Marie Pishmishian is the first female mathematician in Turkey.

The first female fighter plane pilot in the world was Ataturk's adopted daughter Sabiha Gökçe".

 

In addition to this:

About 40% of the export, 60% of the import and 80% of the "empire"'s commerce were run by Armenians.

Sinan literally built the 16th century Ottoman. There are 360 mosques, schools, bridges, hospitals... attributed to him.

Balians literally built Constantinople.

The list is endless and this is just the tip of the iceberg that your grandfathers turned into a mountain of skulls. Turkish gratitude one may say.

 

Go to this page and scroll down the posts to view some of the contributions of the Armenians to the barbarians.

[Hellektor]

Of course, Armenians everywhere have contributed to the country they live in.

 

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/photos/data/500/YepremKhan.jpg

 

Yeprem Khan, the one and only Sardar of Vatan

 

Yeprem Khan is one of the most prominent figures of the most important movement in Iran in the last couple of centuries, the Constitutional Revolution (1906). He, along with other Armenians like Kerry, fought for Iran’s freedom and gave their lives for their country.

The official currency of Iran is Rial, but every body uses the term Tooman (=10 Rials), the unofficial currency which comes from Toomanians who were pioneers of banking in Iran.

The first book printed in Iran was an Armenian Book of Psalms, printed by the very first press in Jugha in 1638, brought to Iran by Bishop Khachatour Kesaratsi.

The first Iranian movie (silent) was made by Hovhannes Ohanians.

The first school for actors was founded by Armenians. The same goes for theater, modern architecture, painting, music…

 

I have translated the following from BBC Persian. I have already posted this article in another thread. Note the difference of the treatment/acknowledgement by Iranians with thousands of years of civilization and the savages who gave us genocide for thank you.

 

 

Iranian Armenians, the Weight of a Minority Among a Nation, by Sirus Ali Nejad, from BBC Persian

 

Living four hundred years in Iran, that gave the Armenians their Iranian identity, and since accepting all that is good is in their nature, they took in as much as they could from Iranian culture and they influenced the Iranian culture many times more than they had taken from it. The Iranian influence on Armenians is something the Armenians themselves can talk about, the purpose of this report is to show the influence of the Armenians on Iranian culture.

 

In “Symphony of the Dead”, a novel by Abbas Maaroufi, set in the twenties (solar Hijri calendar H.), that deals with a feud, everybody has a role in ruining the life of the main character Aidin, except an Armenian family the Mirzaians, who own a timber cutting factory, who don’t spare an effort in saving the Muslim protagonist of the novel.

 

This is not a random or artificial image of the Armenians of Iran, it’s an image that the majority of Iranians have from their compatriots for four hundred years. Anyone among us who has known Armenians in their city or town, has an image of camaraderie and agreement of thoughts in their mind. “Symphony of the Dead” doesn’t just point to the virtuous nature of this minority but to their industriousness as well.

 

The image of Armenians in the minds of Iranians is one of skillful craftsmen who free from any deceit and full of trustworthiness engage in various technical professions. Until the Islamic Revolution, that is, in the period they were present much more extensively in Iran, usually the best carpenters, the furniture makers with the greatest taste, the cleanest producers of foodstuff, the most trustworthy mechanics, tailors, shoe makers, confectioners would be found among them, of course, the sales of drinks was also their domain.

 

Reviewing the names of pioneers in various branches of art, industry and commerce of our time will reveal how much this minority has influenced the Iranian culture. In the advancement of contemporary Iran there isn’t a single field where one doesn’t come across their names, everywhere they are either the most prominent or the founders.

 

After the tragic forced migration by Shah Abbas and after their settlement in Julfa, Isfahan and the healing process with the contribution of the Shah, they became Iranians and they worked passionately for the improvement of Iran, and since they were a cultured people they became the pioneers in progress and novelties in all fields: in politics, in arts, in science and technology, in music, in cinema, in painting, in theater, in photography, in turning to civilization, in printing and publishing, in industry and architecture and in any field imaginable the names of the Armenians are to be found in the ranks of the leaders. Possibly no other minority anywhere in the world can be found who has served so much a country that logically should have been considered their second home but became their first.

 

Because of their engagement in trade, even from the time of Shah Abbas, they have been responsible for establishing relations between Iran and the West. On one hand, the fact that the Armenians were dispersed all over the world, facilitated their movement to different corners of the globe, on the other hand, the relations between them and the Christians of Europe, resulted in their acquaintance with Western new ideas and civilization earlier than other Iranians.

 

Because of this, they became the forerunners in the learning of sciences and technical skills, and this in turn resulted that in later periods, especially in the last hundred and fifty years, when Iran had become aware of the importance of the progress in the West, they functioned as an open window towards the European civilization.

 

We Iranians owe the presence of the Armenians to Shah Abbas. Our debt to Armenians themselves is incalculable. A people that lived for four hundred years among Iranians, learned to speak Persian and created works in Persian (Mirza Melkom Khan being the most prominent), but preserved their language. I cannot think of another ethnicity or nation that has the same weight as this people… having lived for several centuries among strangers, having become locals, having created this amount of wonders, having become landlords of their houses, at the same time not having lost their independence, is an art that not many nations master.

 

………….

 

Several links related to Iranian Armenians are presented in this section of the article.

[Hellektor]

As far as the Union of Soviet Sionist "Republics" is concerned, despite the treachery of Lenin and Stalin in chopping up Armenia and reducing it from 72,000 km2 to 29,000 km2 in 1921, the Armenians contributed to this empire more than any other nation enslaved in that hellhole:

 

Armenians contributed 10% of the scientists in USSR although they constituted 1% of the population and had received 0.1% of the Soviet territory... The Turkic tribes who never participated in a process of nation building, were morphed into "nations" and only in Central Asia, the got 4 million square kilometers of territory.

 

Among great Armenians in the Soviet Union you surely know Victor Hambartsoumian, Artem Mikoyan, Aram Khachaturian, Arnaud Babajanian, Parajanov and countless other composers, artists, scientists, heroes, etc., etc.

 

 

While the fake "Azeris" were planning the invasion into real Azarbaijan 600,000 Armenians fought in WWII and about half of them did not return.

 

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/photos/data/500/baghramian.jpg

 

Marshal Baghramian

 

The 89th Armenian army division cut 3700 kilometers, liberated 900 areas, 7333 of its soldiers received medals and distinctions, 9 became Soviet Heroes. They even reached Berlin and danced the Kochari in front of the Reichstag.

 

The 76th division who crossed 7000 kilometers, liberated 600 areas, gave 21 Soviet Heroes. The 390th, 261st, 409th, 408th... divisions fought on all the fronts in the Caucasus, Crimea, Moscow, Odessa, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Japan, etc.

 

103 Armenians became Soviet Heroes, 23 were knighted with the award of Glory, 70,000 received awards and medals. There were about 60 Armenian generals in the ranks of the Soviet army commanders, among who General Baghramian (later became Soviet Marshal, repeatedly Soviet Hero and army commander), Admiral Isakov (Khanferiants), Gen. Babajanian (later field marshal of armored division), Gen. Barseghov, Gen. Galajev, Gen. Martirossian, Gen. Karapetian, Gen. Toumanian and others.

Edited January 4, 2007 by Hellektor

[Zartonk]

The first book printed in Iran was an Armenian Book of Psalms, printed by the very first press in Jugha in 1638, brought to Iran by Bishop Khachatour Kesaratsi.

 

I just want to add that the above mentioned press was also the first in all of the general Middle East.

[SanVal]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Armenians

 

That's a pretty long list of Armenian generals, many of them from the USSR.

[gamavor]

Speaking of Armenian contributions to humankind I think more appropriate would be to credit people of Armenian decent whose achievements were homegrown, i.e. who have demonstrated their talent and achieved highest acclaim in Armenia and the world.

 

To name a few...David the Invincible (medieval philosopher who redefined Aristotle), Anania Shiragatsi (who claimed that the Earth is round and spinning centuries before Galileo Galilei), Georg Gurdiev, Hovannes Adamian (inventor of the color television in Yerevan 1925), Victor Hambartzumyan (astrophysist), and if we only had given the World Aram Khachaturian, that would be more than enough to be proud of being Armenian.

[Dave]

Don't forget about the Duduk (and countless other Armenian musical instruments) and the Khachkars.

 

Nobody other than us Armenians really cares about our architectural marvels though. The most recent proof is the desecration that occurred in Nakhichevan in 2005... Even the Armenian government and the Catholicoi didn't do much to prevent it or to counter it. For example, Aram I, the so-called leader of the World Council of Churches, could have raised awareness...

 

I think more appropriate would be to credit people of Armenian decent whose achievements were homegrown, i.e. who have demonstrated their talent and achieved highest acclaim in Armenia and the world.

 

What about those in the diaspora?

 

Mikoyan aside, I don't consider any name mentioned in this thread so far as Armenian.

 

Why not?

Edited January 4, 2007 by Dave

[Johannes]

Այսպէս կոչուած «ոսմանեան մզկիթներու» ոճը, բիւզանդական-ասորական (սիրիական) եկեղեցիներու ոճն է: Այսպէս կոչուած «թրքական բաղանիք»-ը հռովմէացիներէն արաբներուն, արաբներէն ալ թուրքերուն անցած աւանդոյթ եւ երեւոյթ է: Այսպէս կոչուած «թրքական սուրճը» նոյնինքն արաբական սուրճն է (պատրաստման եղանակ):

 

Երբ թրքական հեռատեսիլ կը դիտէք (այո՛ ես երբեմն), եւ եթէ թրքերէն կը հասկանաք, պիտի նկատէք, որ այդ ժողովուրդը որքա՜ն լպիրշ (KÜSTAH), եւ որքա՜ն հպարտ է իր գողացածներով, աշխարհին յայտնելով՝ իբր իրը, իր ստեղծածը:

 

Եւրոպայէն, Ասիայէն միլիոններով զբօսնողներ կ'ուգան եւ կը հաւատան թուրքաց այդ քարոզչութեան (խորոզութեան), եւ վերադառնալով իրենց երկիրները՝ հիացմունքով կ'արտայայտուին «թուրքիոյ» գեղեցկութեան եւ յառաջդիմութեան մասին:

 

Ցեղասպանութիւնէն բախտով ազատած մեր ժողովուրդի զաւակները կ'այցելէն այդտեղ, այդ կարմիր լաթի տակէն անցնելով՝ կը լողան, կը զուարճանան, կը գնեն եւ վերադառնալով կը գովերգեն այդ մանկասպան արիւնարբու ձրիակերաց զաւթած երկրի գեղեցկութիւնը, շուկաներու լիութիւնը, գներու աժանութիւնը:

 

Այս է մեր ժողովուրդը, եւ մենք այս ժողովուրդով դա՞տ պիտի շահինք:

 

Դուք գիտէ՞ք, որ թուրքերը որքա՜ն կը հրճուին, ինչքա՜ն փառաւորուած կ'զգան, երբ հայեր, որպէս զբօսաշրջիկ՝ կ'այցելեն «թուրքիա» կոչուող Haremia երկիրը: Անձնապէս որքա՜ն հրաւիրուած եմ՝ երթալու այդտեղ: Չէ որ կար ժամանակ՝ երբ «եան» մակդիրը կրողներուն կ'արգիլուէր մուտքն այդտեղ:

 

թուրքեր խորին բաւարարութիւն կ'զգան, երբ հայեր կերթան «թուրքիա»: Գիտէք ինչու՞, որովհետեւ այդպիսով հայեր հալալ կ'ընէն՝ թուրքին կերածը, խմածը, վայելածը, գողացածը, մորթածը, լլկածը:

 

Այսպիսով անոնք՝ (թուրքեր), աշխարհին (եւ հայոց) ցոյց կ'ուտան ասելով.«տեսէ՛ք հայեր կ'ուգան մեր մօտ, որովհետեւ ապահով կ'զգան...», եւ նոյն խոջայական հանկերգքը, թէ՝ «մենք խնդիր չ'ունենք հայոց հետ» եւայլն ...

 

Իմ ներդրումս ունենամ այդ ոսմանեան so called heritage-ին: Այո, խալիփները թոյլ տուած են, որ հայք մայրաքաղաքի (ազգաց լլկանոց եւ սպանդանոց եւ ոսմանանոց) եւ այլ արեւմտեան քաղաքներու մէջ՝ առեւտրով եւ շինարարքով զբաղին, սակայն զգոյշ...յանուն աստուծոյ ներկայացուցիչ, եւ մարգարէի յետնորդ՝ խալիփի իշխանութեան եւ փառքի համար:

 

Հայոց այդ նուաճումները թափած են ոսմանի առուին, ոսմանի տոպրակին, թուրքի պետութեան, եւ ի վնաս հայաստանի:

 

Հայաստանի դատարկութեան եւ խեղճութեան եւ թշուառութեան հաշուին, բարգաւաճեցան արեւմտեան «թուրքիոյ» հայկական գաղութները: Հայաստանի քաղաքներու գիւղերու, աւաններու բնակիչներուն, իմա՝ երկրի բնիկներուն արտօնուած չ'էր նոյնատիպ զարգացումն ու արդիականացումը: Ըսեմ ինչու՞, որովհետեւ Հայաստանի լեռները, դաշտերը, ձորերը հայերէն կը խօսէին, որովհետեւ Հայաստանի փռապանը, հացթուխը, սայլապանը, որմնադիրը, մշակը, մսագործը հայեր էին, որովհետեւ Հայաստանը (արեւելեան նահանգները ոսմանեան սրիկայապետութեան) Հայաստան էր, իսկ Պոլիսը, Իզմիրը՝ ո՛չ:

 

Մինչ այդ պոռնկարան-լլկանոցի մէջ (istanbul) պալեաններ պալատներ կը կառուցէին, Հայաստանի երեխաները արիւն կ'ուլային: Մինչ ճարպակալ հայ ամիրաներ՝ մանկակեր արիւնխում տիրողներու գանձարանները ստանձնած էին, Հայաստանի գիւղերն ու գաւառները կը դատարկուէին, հայը կը զրկուէր, բնական կեանքի ընթացքէն:

 

Հայաստան՝ առանց հայու, ահա այս է տիրակալներու ճիւաղային գործը:

 

Եւ տակաւին կան, որոնք կը հպարտանան՝ Պալեաններով, խոջաներով, ամիրաներով:

 

Ի՞նչ Հայաստան առանց հողի, Ի՜նչ Հայութիւն առանց Հայաստանի:

[Arpa]

Այսպէս կոչուած «ոսմանեան մզկիթներու» ոճը, բիւզանդական-ասորական (սիրիական) եկեղեցիներու ոճն է: Այսպէս կոչուած «թրքական բաղանիք

=======

Մինչ այդ պոռնկարան-լլկանոցի մէջ (istanbul) պալեաններ պալատներ կը կառուցէին, Հայաստանի երեխաները արիւն կ'ուլային: Մինչ ճարպակալ հայ ամիրաներ՝ մանկակեր արիւնխում տիրողներու գանձարանները ստանձնած էին, Հայաստանի գիւղերն ու գաւառները կը դատարկուէին, հայը կը զրկուէր, բնական կեանքի ընթացքէն:

 

Հայաստան՝ առանց հայու, ահա այս է տիրակալներու ճիւաղային գործը:

 

Եւ տակաւին կան, որոնք կը հպարտանան՝ Պալեաններով, խոջաներով, ամիրաներով:

 

Ի՞նչ Հայաստան առանց հողի, Ի՜նչ Հայութիւն առանց Հայաստանի:

Sireli Hovannes,

Once again you excel in your highly provocative and thoughtful posts.

I coul never understand why Armenians wish to visit those lands էդ պոռնկանոցը, պէս կոչուած Թուրքիան.

Some time ago my cousine pleaded with me to join her on a trip from Adana to Ani. The itinerary was to stop at every ruins, hold memorials and weepothons. My may concern was that those so called plgrimages from Adana to Ani don’t even consider to cross the River Akhourian and visit Yerevan.

If I were to visit those lands it will only be in a highly fortified military tank հրասայլg at Khor Virap, waving the Karmir Kapuyt andTsirani. If the Haleptsis want to join us, creating another front they are welcome too.

Speaking of our Europhilia and our orientophobia… see how we have constantly despised our own homeland and yearned to be two thousand miles west of our Orran? Why did our most sacred prophets, the likes of Varouzhan abandon their native village and move to Istanbul? Why were Petros Tourian, Hakob Baronian, Erwand Otian et al residents of Istanbul? Why was Grigor Zohrab a senator in the Ottoman Parliament and not in Yerevan? Why was our most sacred of saints Komitas in Istanbul on the eve of the mass murder?

See what I had written about the subject some time ago.

If we would only resign to the fact we are Armenians, from Armenian, not French, not Belgian, not Ottomans, not Greek not… not…

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14...amp;hl=istanbul

QUOTE(kilmj @ Jun 16 2006, 06:56 AM)

 

Why do you think Armenian Genocide Happened? Do you think that it was partially our (Armenians) fault also, that we let (not been prepared, not been organized, not been united) those barbarians (turks) to kill us? Could we prevent it in 1915? What we should do that this type of tragedy does not happen with us again?

 

Dear K, Welcome, could you please, without getting too personal explain to us the meaning of your screen name? The reason of the question is that when I first saw you I thought; “Huh, another Turk” since at first sight it looked like “kilimji” to me. Now e know you are a concerned Armenian.

As to your question, I must congratulate you for your courage bringing up such a sensitive and potentially explosive question. The issue has been discussed on many occasions and under various topics. Of course, as expected many of us have been totally scandalized for even asking the question as many others have totally denied our share in the disaster, once again, as usual totally passing the buck on others, all the way from the (just for the gamut of the alphabet) Afghanis to the Zulus, Janissaries to the Jews. As above, this is a highly sensitive and a potentially explosive subject, and I doubt if you will get many “sane” replies. I, for one have touched on the subject under many varied topics, be it here or other places.

First off, April 24 is not the beginning or the end of the Genocide. The Genocide began around 1000 AD when we let those barbarians into our homes. Of course , at that time we were too busy to see the danger arguing as to which was the true Orthodox faith, ours or the Byzantians. We became the “faithful minority” ceded all military and legislative powers to the Turk. And as we know too well, we honor and respect our oppressors while at the same time we insult leaders of our own ethnicity. (Listen to some Armenians and see how they talk about Levon T P and Robert K).

To make it short, let others comment. We have always been Europhilic, Euro-petal, as opposed to Asiaphobic and Asiafugal. After the fall of Ani it did not take us to o long to pick up and move westward (Kilikia), and ever since then we have gradually vacated our Homeland and moved to Istanbul and further west. Had we stayed in our ancestral lands, do you think the Turk could have genocided us in 1915? That date may be an arbitrary one, it commemorates the days when 400 of our intellectuals were rounded up in one night and destroyed. Yet, as we see the Genocide was in the making for over 1000 years, even if the Ottomans were so called tolerant during all those years , they realized that, with the “renaissance”, with our rediscovering our language, our sense of Homeland they had to expedite the extermination that was in progress, what with the loss of our language and culture, and apply brute and definitive force to once and for all silence us when they realized all that acculturaion and turkification was about to fail.

Once again, you fill in the blanks.

Why did we have two catholicates for over 1000 years. Why do we have two of them now?

Are Armenians really patriotic?

The saying goes that: “Russians want an Armenia without Armenians“.

Do Armenians want an Armenia with Armenians?

How many Armenians are left in the modern Yerevan Province?

Is it not a dejavu as many of our most productive element and our intellectuals would leave their homes in Kharberd, Sebastia and Van and move to Istanbul, sing nostalgic songs hoping that some idiot back home will still be there when they decide to return (not).

Our so called Christian faith has been our biggest downfall as it made it so easy for us to move west, Europe and assimilate and meld in the culture. We do it even now. We have always insulted our immediate neighbors who have been of another faith, always yearned to unite with our European “brothers in faith”.

The rest is one tragic history after another tragic history.

 

SHUT ME UP

 

Also see this; Armenia Without Armenians.

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=12508&hl=

How many of us will give up our cushy couches in NY, LA and Paris and move to that dusty old village known a Yerevan?

[zurderer]

Zurderer is Armenian too.

 

maybe half-greek. Absolutely not armenian.Not because I care much, but this is reality.

 

Arpa dont swear. Be nice like every armenian.

[Dave]

About this "moving to Istanbul" thing.

 

It started when the Sultan Mehmed II who conquered Constantinople (1453) invited an Armenian archbishop to the City and encouraged him to start a Patriarchat. The Sultan recognized the Armenians' ingenuity and their ability to build, not to destroy. Shah Abbas also recognized that when he settled thousands of Armenians in Isfahan.

 

So it wasn't really our choice.

 

Most Armenians of Istanbul never lacked patriotism. For example, during the Ottoman Bank takeover, there was a simultaneous rebellion in the Armenian quarter of Amasia.

[Johannes]

Աղէկ պատասխան էր սիրելի Արփա: Եթէ ես գրէի, մօտաւորապէս նոյնը պիտի ստանայինք:

 

Դիպուկ նկատում էր, որ 1915-ը՝ շարունակուող ընթացքի մը ցաւատանջ տարեթիւն է, որ յատկանշուած է՝ հայ ժողովուրդի լրիւ հայրենազրկումով, իսկ Հայրենիքի (արեւմտահայքի) որդեկորուստով: Թերեւս առանձին կ'նշեմ այդ խնդիրը, իսկ այժմ ասեմ այսքանը.-երկար բարակ մտածելու, խորհելու, տրամաբանելու, փիլիսոփայելու կարիք չ'կայ: Ինչու՞ տեղի ունեցաւ Ցեղասպանութիւնը, որովհետեւ թուրքերը հայրենիքի պէտք ունէին, քանզի Անատոլիան, Կիլիկիան, Բիւթանիան, Պոնտոսը եւ Արմենիան թուրքիստան չէին եղած տակաւին, քանզի բալկանցիք վտարեցին այդ եկուոր ջղջիկները իրենց հայրենիքէն:

 

Why had happened the Armenian Genocide?

 

A simple answer to a ''hard'' question is-

 

Because turks needed to create a homeland to them, because nowadays so called ''turkia-turkey'' was not turkey before 1915 although the continuing and permanently massacres during 500 years of ottoman/turkish/kurdish rule, and before that during 500 year of seljuk/turkish and akkoyunlu/karakoyunlu invading.

 

Dear Dave, we do not hate our people of Constantinople.

 

Նոքա մեր հոգեակներն են: ոսոխմանեան դրամատան գրաւումէ ետք, քայլարշաւի ելնող ժողովուրդը՝ արեւմտահայ պանդուխտներն էին, մշեցի, վանեցի, խարբերդցի բեռնակիրները, որոնք կին ու երեխայ, հայր ու մայր, թուրք աղայի, քուրդ բեգի խղճմտանքին թողնելով եկած էին պոլիս, մի քանի լումա հաւաքելով երկիր դառնալու եւ ապահով կեանք մը ապրելու համար: Ինչու՞ այդ մի քանի լուման երկրի մէջ չէին վաստկեր: Խնդրեմ բացէք մեր գրականութիւնը, ձանձրացուցիչ մանրամասնութեամբ նկարագրուած է հայ ժողովուրդի մարդկային, մշակութային, տնտեսական, տառապանքը Հայաստանի հողի վրայ:

 

Հայաստանը գիտէ՞ք ուր է: Այժմեան 30 000 քառ. Կիլոմետրը մեր հայրենիքի միայն 10 % է:

 

Պոլսահայք ճանչցուած են իրենց ազգասիրութեամբ:

 

Ազգասիրութիւնը տարբեր է հայրենասիրութիւնէն: Ազգասէր հայը՝ եկեղեցւոյ մէջ եւ հայ դպրութեամբ իր միջավայրը կը գտնէ: Հայրենասէրի եւ ազգասէրի տարբերութիւնը խորին է:

 

Առանց Հայրենի հողի ինչ ազգութիւն, ին՜չ ազգասիրութիւն:

[HyeFedayis]

Աղէկ պատասխան էր սիրելի Արփա: Եթէ ես գրէի, մօտաւորապէս նոյնը պիտի ստանայինք:

 

Դիպուկ նկատում էր, որ 1915-ը՝ շարունակուող ընթացքի մը ցաւատանջ տարեթիւն է, որ յատկանշուած է՝ հայ ժողովուրդի լրիւ հայրենազրկումով, իսկ Հայրենիքի (արեւմտահայքի) որդեկորուստով: Թերեւս առանձին կ'նշեմ այդ խնդիրը, իսկ այժմ ասեմ այսքանը.-երկար բարակ մտածելու, խորհելու, տրամաբանելու, փիլիսոփայելու կարիք չ'կայ: Ինչու՞ տեղի ունեցաւ Ցեղասպանութիւնը, որովհետեւ թուրքերը հայրենիքի պէտք ունէին, քանզի Անատոլիան, Կիլիկիան, Բիւթանիան, Պոնտոսը եւ Արմենիան թուրքիստան չէին եղած տակաւին, քանզի բալկանցիք վտարեցին այդ եկուոր ջղջիկները իրենց հայրենիքէն:

 

Why had happened the Armenian Genocide?

 

A simple answer to a ''hard'' question is-

 

Because turks needed to create a homeland to them, because nowadays so called ''turkia-turkey'' was not turkey before 1915 although the continuing and permanently massacres during 500 years of ottoman/turkish/kurdish rule, and before that during 500 year of seljuk/turkish and akkoyunlu/karakoyunlu invading.

 

Dear Dave, we do not hate our people of Constantinople.

 

Նոքա մեր հոգեակներն են: ոսոխմանեան դրամատան գրաւումէ ետք, քայլարշաւի ելնող ժողովուրդը՝ արեւմտահայ պանդուխտներն էին, մշեցի, վանեցի, խարբերդցի բեռնակիրները, որոնք կին ու երեխայ, հայր ու մայր, թուրք աղայի, քուրդ բեգի խղճմտանքին թողնելով եկած էին պոլիս, մի քանի լումա հաւաքելով երկիր դառնալու եւ ապահով կեանք մը ապրելու համար: Ինչու՞ այդ մի քանի լուման երկրի մէջ չէին վաստկեր: Խնդրեմ բացէք մեր գրականութիւնը, ձանձրացուցիչ մանրամասնութեամբ նկարագրուած է հայ ժողովուրդի մարդկային, մշակութային, տնտեսական, տառապանքը Հայաստանի հողի վրայ:

 

Հայաստանը գիտէ՞ք ուր է: Այժմեան 30 000 քառ. Կիլոմետրը մեր հայրենիքի միայն 10 % է:

 

Պոլսահայք ճանչցուած են իրենց ազգասիրութեամբ:

 

Ազգասիրութիւնը տարբեր է հայրենասիրութիւնէն: Ազգասէր հայը՝ եկեղեցւոյ մէջ եւ հայ դպրութեամբ իր միջավայրը կը գտնէ: Հայրենասէրի եւ ազգասէրի տարբերութիւնը խորին է:

 

Առանց Հայրենի հողի ինչ ազգութիւն, ին՜չ ազգասիրութիւն:

 

There are many reasons why they wanted to conquer and elimnate us because we were Christian like they committed war crimes against the Christian Greeks and Assyrians. Yet again if they took over Armenia they would be connected to there blood brothers Azerbaijan and that will let them free to the Caspian sea where the other Turkic brothers are. They do not deserve a country the west should go to the Greeks and mount Ararat, lake van, kars, ani to Armenia and the rest to the Kurds.