Azat Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 i said it before and i will say it again. if as a whole we dont want to assimilate than we all must move bach. else it is hypothetical to even talk about this while residinng in US. name one nationality that has not mixed in the past 100 years in the US Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigranisbasileus Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 This is the stupidest line of reasoning I have ever heard. So one being Armenian and seeking to preserve Armenian culture is not an end in itself, but is dependent on what others perceive them as? Where do you folks get these wild assumptions, like perennial phantasms that never cease. "For fear is the original and basic feeling of man; from fear everything is explicable, original sin and original virtue." ---Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra. Aside from your paternalistic tone toward Armenians from the high horse of Greekdom, what is your purpose? And how can anyone call the legitimate instinct of self-preservation based on fear? The eastern world, China, Japan, and Korea do not engage in the multicultural mileu and suicide that the West is swimming in. Indians in fact are very conscious of this as well, as they are insistent on their marriages be common even down to the local village and tribe. So are these peoples' sense of race and culture based on fear, these peoples who number in the millions and billions and are 'well known' compared to Armenian standards, as you so insist? My recommendation for you is to stop with spurious and blanket assumptions and engage in 1 hour of reading the forum before each posting. Dr. Mouse. Ara Baliozian says if I remember that you can name three greek philopsophers, french or german philisopher but try naming three armenian philosophers? Our high horse is called Hellenism and not greekdom, and its value is determined by odars...not ourselves! My conclusion is that subjectuvely you can love your culture but in the case where an armenian hooks up with an odar, let's say a greek or an italian: even if the child shall be brought up ideally 50% mix, representing both: because of positive reinforcement of these two odar cultures, objectively being more popular and easily identifiable, he'll identify more as a greek or italian more: i.e brand recognition. The only reason I agree with intermarrying for armenians is because you can't convince certain odars to bring up their children exclusively armenian: if you try and expose them to both, still one will dominate.... Cultural darwinism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubépine Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Why do you take credit for the accomplishments for your Hellenic ancestors whereas Modern Greeks have none? Modern Greece is only a footnote in comparison to the glorious past of the Ancient Greeks. Sadly for you, the cultural and intellectual inheritors of Ancient Greece have been Europe and its modern offshoots in America and Australia and not Greece. What do you try to accomplish with your condescending remarks by insinuating that it is better to opt for the more recognised identity ie. brand recognition as you put it? If acceptance is what you try to gain you’re way off track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted May 23, 2006 Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Ara Baliozian says if I remember that you can name three greek philopsophers, french or german philisopher but try naming three armenian philosophers? Our high horse is called Hellenism and not greekdom, and its value is determined by odars...not ourselves! My conclusion is that subjectuvely you can love your culture but in the case where an armenian hooks up with an odar, let's say a greek or an italian: even if the child shall be brought up ideally 50% mix, representing both: because of positive reinforcement of these two odar cultures, objectively being more popular and easily identifiable, he'll identify more as a greek or italian more: i.e brand recognition. The only reason I agree with intermarrying for armenians is because you can't convince certain odars to bring up their children exclusively armenian: if you try and expose them to both, still one will dominate.... Cultural darwinism I already feel sorry for the poor Armenian girl that is your girlfriend. If I marry a Greek woman and have a son, the moment my son says that it is better to be a Greek than Armenian, he will be thought a lesson that will remember for the rest of his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigranisbasileus Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 I already feel sorry for the poor Armenian girl that is your girlfriend. If I marry a Greek woman and have a son, the moment my son says that it is better to be a Greek than Armenian, he will be thought a lesson that will remember for the rest of his life. How does it fl now whn the odars turn the tables on you.... I never said better....just easier... I just did it to show how others feel when you let ethnocentric comments fly.... Oh Yeah...she is taking greek classes in college as we speak...it has been a year now.... she speaks it like a greek american from chicago, i.e good... I love her: This is how you advertize your culture; by giving us your daughters!!! O basileus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 This is how you advertize your culture; by giving us your daughters!!! Tigranis, please spare us the condescending remarks. If you're looking for a flame-job, you'll likely get one. You can choose to be a troll, or, on the other hand, you may try to have civilised discourse. I would personally prefer not to see this degenerate into another flame fest. And BTW, there is more to life than advertising and "brand recognition". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) Ara Baliozian says if I remember that you can name three greek philopsophers, french or german philisopher but try naming three armenian philosophers? Our high horse is called Hellenism and not greekdom, and its value is determined by odars...not ourselves! My conclusion is that subjectuvely you can love your culture but in the case where an armenian hooks up with an odar, let's say a greek or an italian: even if the child shall be brought up ideally 50% mix, representing both: because of positive reinforcement of these two odar cultures, objectively being more popular and easily identifiable, he'll identify more as a greek or italian more: i.e brand recognition. The only reason I agree with intermarrying for armenians is because you can't convince certain odars to bring up their children exclusively armenian: if you try and expose them to both, still one will dominate.... Cultural darwinism Oh please, spare me that stupid guff about positive reinforcement. There is absolutely nothing to lend credence to such psychological sophistry except in the enclaves of your warped mind. By the way, Ara Baliozian is full of nonsense half of the time. Edited May 24, 2006 by Anonymouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 just did it to show how others feel when you let ethnocentric comments fly.... See, the thing is, you are amlifying YOUR reaction to our view of non-Armenians, you are the one offended by a term (or terms, or a perspective as it may be) that is not what you have taken it to be. Now am I saying that Armenians can not be and aren't ethnocentric at times? Absolutely not. But using "otar" is not a sign of the supremacist mentality of a people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Greko, if you are trying to tell us that we Armenians are racist and if you think that we are offended you are wrong! Get the hell out of here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigranisbasileus Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Greko, if you are trying to tell us that we Armenians are racist and if you think that we are offended you are wrong! Get the hell out of here! With an attitude like that...wonder why we take your girls... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) Let's try and continue this discussion without being insulting,immature and/or rude. If you dont' have something constructive to say,please move on or take it to pm's. (thought I'ld nip this in the bud before it blew up) Edited May 24, 2006 by Maral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) How does it fl now whn the odars turn the tables on you.... I never said better....just easier... I just did it to show how others feel when you let ethnocentric comments fly.... Oh Yeah...she is taking greek classes in college as we speak...it has been a year now.... she speaks it like a greek american from chicago, i.e good... I love her: This is how you advertize your culture; by giving us your daughters!!! O basileus Oh please, another one of those mutant turks. First pretends that he is either a) peaceful type that wants to understand the conflic or b ) some other nationality....until he finally removes sheep's clothing and begins shouting national insults. It's so childish... I hope I am wrong but that line "giving us your daughters" sounds very much like some immature turk's slander. Edited May 24, 2006 by Anileve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 i said it before and i will say it again. if as a whole we dont want to assimilate than we all must move bach. else it is hypothetical to even talk about this while residinng in US. name one nationality that has not mixed in the past 100 years in the US This is a story about a bee I’m a Hyporitical bee, I come from the hypocritical forest where beehives are scarce, and it’s not often that I enjoyed a decent meal and day of sunlight and no worries. Now I am in a different forest and I like the honey that I get from this beehive, however I don’t particularly like the process of getting the honey, it’s too strenuous and time consuming. I also don’t like the mentality of these bees they seem to be too shallow and too consumed with work. In fact I do remember that in the former forest things were different, bees connected and spent more time together often joking about the hard times for bees. Now I am here, but I don’t really want to connect with these bees they are inferior and somewhat shallow. However, I shall continue enjoying the delicious honey that is provided by this beehive I just don’t necessarily have to like or accept anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) Greko, if you are trying to tell us that we Armenians are racist and if you think that we are offended you are wrong! Get the hell out of here! From the (Trojan) horse's mouth. Who said "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"? “It derisinden post olmaz, Rum Ermeniye dost olmaz.” Please excuse the Turkish. It was probably composed by Turkish speaking Armenians who remembered how Ani was lost(sold)to the Turk while Armenians and Byzantians (read Greeks/Romans) were arguing about which is the “true Christian”, Greek Orthodox or Armenian Apostolic . Who the HELL(en) cares! See how those Islamic Turks got in the middle saying “neither”. For those who are free of their Ottoman heritage the above quote translates; “You can’t make a friend of the ‘Rum/Byzantian/Greek’ just as you can’t reduce a dog’s hide into a fleece”. Speaking of which, see what the Anglos say about sow’s(female pig) ear and purses. http://www.bartleby.com/59/3/youcantmakea.html “You can’t make a silk purse from a sow’s ear” Yes, yes. I know. There is extensive (military) collaboration between Athens and Yerevan, between Nicosia and Stepanakert, but if those Greeks were ready to attack and try to reclaim “Constantinople” while we attack to reclaim Ararat!!!! What is left in between? “Kurd/Turkistan”? Kurds/Turds? Who are they? Yes! Indeed! If only those Rum/Byzantine/Greeks would realize that they belong in “Asia Minor” not as they claim to belong in Euvopa Major, maybe then we can speak Greco-Armenian, comprehensible to all, Helen and Heghineh. Not that H Hamidieh. If and when those Hell-ens rid themselves of the yoke of Helen Hamides we can also rid ourselves of Sultan Hamidian. Edited May 25, 2006 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 As discussed somewhere before, Armenians are naturally "otaramol", which pretty much means Armenians have a tendency or a drive to stray away from their culture and veer into a foreign one, a tendency that will all too easily be the nail on the coffin of this horribly naive people. Armenians have a word called "herates", but unfortunately it doesn't apply to Armenians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigranisbasileus Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Oh please, another one of those mutant turks. First pretends that he is either a) peaceful type that wants to understand the conflic or b ) some other nationality....until he finally removes sheep's clothing and begins shouting national insults. It's so childish... I hope I am wrong but that line "giving us your daughters" sounds very much like some immature turk's slander. Is being aturk an insult? I'm greek..not a turk! Someone who confuses everybody as an enemy : paranoid.... it is childish: calling me a turk is the equivalent of calling me a stupidhead...it doesn't hurt............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigranisbasileus Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 From the (Trojan) horse's mouth. Who said "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"? “It derisinden post olmaz, Rum Ermeniye dost olmaz.” Please excuse the Turkish. It was probably composed by Turkish speaking Armenians who remembered how Ani was lost(sold)to the Turk while Armenians and Byzantians (read Greeks/Romans) were arguing about which is the “true Christian”, Greek Orthodox or Armenian Apostolic . Who the HELL(en) cares! See how those Islamic Turks got in the middle saying “neither”. For those who are free of their Ottoman heritage the above quote translates; “You can’t make a friend of the ‘Rum/Byzantian/Greek’ just as you can’t reduce a dog’s hide into a fleece”. Speaking of which, see what the Anglos say about sow’s(female pig) ear and purses. http://www.bartleby.com/59/3/youcantmakea.html “You can’t make a silk purse from a sow’s ear” Yes, yes. I know. There is extensive (military) collaboration between Athens and Yerevan, between Nicosia and Stepanakert, but if those Greeks were ready to attack and try to reclaim “Constantinople” while we attack to reclaim Ararat!!!! What is left in between? “Kurd/Turkistan”? Kurds/Turds? Who are they? Yes! Indeed! If only those Rum/Byzantine/Greeks would realize that they belong in “Asia Minor” not as they claim to belong in Euvopa Major, maybe then we can speak Greco-Armenian, comprehensible to all, Helen and Heghineh. Not that H Hamidieh. If and when those Hell-ens rid themselves of the yoke of Helen Hamides we can also rid ourselves of Sultan Hamidian. And you think I'm gonna bring my children to armenian events....when they and I shall be not viewed as friends...this is how you lose people...with this attitude of us against them: they are armenian or enemies nothing in between...good thing my wife has agreed to bring up our kids greek... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Tigraneus Basileus, Do not pay attention to Arpa. Arpa sits at one extreme end of the Armenian spectrum. Arpa is an Armenian fanatic. I am 7/8 Armenian who he/she insults all the time whenever to try to talk sense to Armenians. I once knew the cousin of a famous Greek-American US Senator intimately. She and her cousin were very supportive of our cause. The Greeks support the Armenians. Arpa's outbursts also divuled the identity of a former member of this forum agiainst Forum rules. By far we do not all view things as Arpa does. And you think I'm gonna bring my children to armenian events....when they and I shall be not viewed as friends...this is how you lose people...with this attitude of us against them: they are armenian or enemies nothing in between...good thing my wife has agreed to bring up our kids greek... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) Tigraneus Basileus, Do not pay attention to Arpa. Arpa sits at one extreme end of the Armenian spectrum. Arpa is an Armenian fanatic. I am 7/8 Armenian who he/she insults all the time whenever to try to talk sense to Armenians. I once knew the cousin of a famous Greek-American US Senator intimately. She and her cousin were very supportive of our cause. The Greeks support the Armenians. Arpa's outbursts also divuled the identity of a former member of this forum agiainst Forum rules. By far we do not all view things as Arpa does. Yeah, yeah right! When the Greeks get over their Hamides heritage and have the "fartitude" to attack and reclaim their Hagia Sofia/St. Sophia we will also attack to reclaim our Aghtamar. That is, when the NATO Greeks decide to divorce NATO Turkey and stop the “love affair” aka rape. Whatever happened to the mighty Greek Empire?? Did the Turk rape you enough times to reduce you to this submissive state? Who said "beware of Greeks bearing gifts"??!! Edited May 25, 2006 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Enough! Please don't fall for this idiot's trap: HE IS A TROLL. He comes in here with the sole purpose of pushing your buttons with inflammatory remarks and getting irate reactions from you. Let him go play with himself. Please don't feed the trolls, they'll only come back for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigranisbasileus Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Yeah, yeah right! When the Greeks get over their Hamides heritage and have the "fartitude" to attack and reclaim their Hagia Sofia/St. Sophia we will also attack to reclaim our Aghtamar. That is, when the NATO Greeks decide to divorce NATO Turkey and stop the “love affair” aka rape. Whatever happened to the mighty Greek Empire?? Did the Turk rape you enough times to reduce you to this submissive state? Who said "beware of Greeks bearing gifts"??!! Man, Arpa, you're to preoccupied with blood... a famous german was preoccupied with blood also...the irony is he loathed the people which he has the ancestory of... as for my heritage... I don't care if I have turkish blood because today...i am greek... or actually ...i am culturally greek... and in my child's case...which was born yesterday... I hope Stavros turn out not like you...you see...I want him to be proud of his roots not some loser which is so paralysed by fear... he is consumed by hate...it is easier to hate than to love...right , arpa? My wife/girlfriend met alot of armos like you which soured her to the community and now well...as you see... I hope our child cherishes both heritages... but with armos like you in the community... probably not... WE GREEKS LOVE AGIA SOFIA AND THE MEMORY OF CONSTANTINOPLE AND SMYRNA...WE HAVE LET GO ANS ACCEPTED THAT THEY ARE LOST FOREVER...SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT DEFEAT... TO ABLE TO CONSOLIDATE YOUR BASSE AND WIN AGAIN... WE ARE NOT SELF LOATHEING DEFEATISTS BATHING IN SELF PITY FULL OF HATE AND FEAR OF BEING ASSIMILATED... You wanna know why? HISTORY HAS BEEN GOOD TO US. WE HAVE LOST: 1453... AS A NATION WE DON'T COMMEMORATE LOSSES...ONLY VICTORIES: MOST OF US DON'T KNOW WHEN THE PONTIAN MASSACRE DAY IS OR THE TAKING OF CONSTANTINOPLE NOT BECAUSE WE ARE NOT PATRIOTIC...but because as a people we aren't sstuck on losses and we forget them; When you die the only thing you remember before is the ggod memories and this is why you are sad of dying...so don't dwell on losses... As an odar, the impression I get is that the fondemental difference between greeks and armenians: WE ARE VERY SIMULAR...yet we have this WE ARE THE BEST attitude that the armenians don't have. hUMILITY is a virtue...I agree and we greeks are arrogant...yes... but I am tired of this... we have lost this...they have done this to us.... we are disappearing...we have to marry to keep the race strong... we have to do this.... Wake up people: if armenians haven't disappeared afiter so much shit... they won't... Don't dwell on your losses... be proud and forget about the past defeats... focus on the future and let the world know armenians for something other than the genocide.... Promote your culture at every occassion...teach odars about your culture... otherwise peoplelike won't feel welcome... and you lose another half armenian to the odars... because of your f****ing complexes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) Man, Arpa, you're to preoccupied with blood... a famous german was preoccupied with blood also...the irony is he loathed the people which he has the ancestory of... Hitler was Austrian and not a German, and the claim of Jewish ancestors is part of the folklores and entrly speculatives from the claim that his grandfather being an illegitimate son whose mother had an affair with one of the son's of the Jew for whom she was working for blabla ..., the 'the mother's son of the..., he's Jew'... story. As for your second point, if in any way you are comparing Smyrna and Constantinoples lost with the Armenian tragedy, run, run to the next library and do some reading. Greece is mostly preserved, Armenia is mostly lost, and there was no 'population exchanges' there was extermination. Edited May 25, 2006 by QueBeceR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 This is a story about a bee I’m a Hyporitical bee, I come from the hypocritical forest where beehives are scarce, and it’s not often that I enjoyed a decent meal and day of sunlight and no worries. Now I am in a different forest and I like the honey that I get from this beehive, however I don’t particularly like the process of getting the honey, it’s too strenuous and time consuming. I also don’t like the mentality of these bees they seem to be too shallow and too consumed with work. In fact I do remember that in the former forest things were different, bees connected and spent more time together often joking about the hard times for bees. Now I am here, but I don’t really want to connect with these bees they are inferior and somewhat shallow. However, I shall continue enjoying the delicious honey that is provided by this beehive I just don’t necessarily have to like or accept anything else. My brain hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) WE GREEKS LOVE AGIA SOFIA AND THE MEMORY OF CONSTANTINOPLE AND SMYRNA...WE HAVE LET GO ANS ACCEPTED THAT THEY ARE LOST FOREVER...SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT DEFEAT... TO ABLE TO CONSOLIDATE YOUR BASSE AND WIN AGAIN... WE ARE NOT SELF LOATHEING DEFEATISTS BATHING IN SELF PITY FULL OF HATE AND FEAR OF BEING ASSIMILATED... You wanna know why? As an odar, the impression I get is that the fondemental difference between greeks and armenians: WE ARE VERY SIMULAR...yet we have this WE ARE THE BEST attitude that the armenians don't have. hUMILITY is a virtue...I agree and we greeks are arrogant...yes... but I am tired of this... we have lost this...they have done this to us.... we are disappearing...we have to marry to keep the race strong... we have to do this... El Grekko: Greeks did lose Aia Sofia and Smyrna but they didn't lose everything. You are talking rubbish again. I told you before and I will tell you again; you did not lose 1/10th of much as we did. We practically lost everything. Practically all our lands and millions of people. You are still 50+ million people on earth. How can you compare yourselves with us? Please save us from your rhetoric about you Greek men being better from our men. I heard from many unhappy women who intermarried to Greek men that womanise a great deal and made their wives to be extremely unhappy; constantly leaving their wives at home and plain womanizing. Our Armenian men are far better husbands and far better family figures. So save your rhetoric about how much you people are better blaaaa...blaaaa....blaaaa Edited May 25, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigranisbasileus Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Hitler was Austrian and not a German, and the claim of Jewish ancestors is part of the folklores and entrly speculatives from the claim that his grandfather being an illegitimate son whose mother had an affair with one of the son's of the Jew for whom she was working for blabla ..., the 'the mother's son of the..., he's Jew'... story. As for your second point, if in any way you are comparing Smyrna and Constantinoples lost with the Armenian tragedy, run, run to the next library and do some reading. Greece is mostly preserved, Armenia is mostly lost, and there was no 'population exchanges' there was extermination. google pontian massacre, dipshit... you'll see ask your fellow armos in mtl at sourp Hagop to tell ya, ok? 350000 good enough for you? Mayb if it were a round numbeer like one million you'd give a shit.... go to www.armenians.gr for da truth from your own people in OUR country... we too hav had our own genocide... you don't knnow cause we don't talk about it as for greece being mostly preserved well, thank the english french russians and other grecophiles.... who came our rescue....they acknowledge the grandeur of our culture and hlpd us in the 1820s for our independance.... YOU SEE KNOW WHY ADVERTIZAING YOUR CULTURE IS IMPORTANT....NO ONE CARES ABOUT SOMETHING THEY DON'T KNOW.... THE OTHER EUROPEAN ODARS COULDN'T LET US LOSE... MORAL OF THE STORY BRAND RECOGNITION: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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