Azat Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 Dear Marco and Tigrannes and others here is an article you should read http://www.jendajournal.com/jenda/vol1.1/Dvagina.html ----small excerpt------Giving a 40- or 50-year-old woman a 20-year-old vagina is not all that Matlock has in his bag of genital tricks. He can also restore her virginity through a technique called hymenalplasty. Essentially the reconstruction of the hymen, this procedure has brought to Matlock’s office a steady clientele of Middle Eastern women. “You can’t believe how hysterical some of these women are. They come in here and say they’re going to get killed unless they get this done. They’re telling us that back home their brother will kill them, that their father will kill them. It’s terrible. The majority of these Middle Eastern women are coming in to have hymenalplasty because they’re getting ready to get married in their home country. All of them tell me that the groom’s side of the family can pick whatever doctor they want to determine whether or not she’s a virgin, to determine whether she’s worth it or not to be married to their son. So there are religious implications, there are social implications.” -------------- For you see now you could marry a virgin and she still could have been a slut prior to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Azat:For you see now you could marry a virgin and she still could have been a slut prior to you.Worse yet - perhaps she was a man! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aurguplu Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 hi i listened to nairi's advice and started to post in threads other than genocide (coming out of everyone's ears now, i guess). re this virginity thing: tigranness iii could just be a turk (sorry, tiggy), a kurd, a persian, or an arab with that attitude. you can hear exactly the same reasoning in all those places re virginity (and exactly the same silence re men's virginity). just a reminder: do you know guys that hymen-sewing (sorry ladies) is a very lucrative branch of medicine in these countries? there are quite a few doctors in all of these countries who got pretty rich on that. guys let's face one thing: we are simple creatures. no man ever fought a woman and won. we think single lane, they think multiple lanes. if a woman has had sex before marriage and has then married a man who can't stand the idea, the man has no hope of finding out about it unless from some third source or unless the woman confesses. also, i see the same paradox is valid for armenian men as for us: women who have sex before marriage are worthless, how about men? and now, if your culture is anything like ours, your young men keep their sisters at home and brag to their fellow young man about their women's chastity and ... how many women they slept with. since most sisters have brothers, and since most brothers keep them at home, there are not all that many women to have sex with around anyway, so life is kind of difficult for the young men. they go after chasing tourist girls, and before there were tourist girls ... you know what they were doing those days, don't you? i have found that of those women i had sex with those that had the most experience were most fun. and the near-virgins (one or two guys before me) were a bit dull, actually. i don't think god punishes us for making ourselves and (at least) another person happy, especially if we are not hurting any third party. there are plenty of other guys to punish if he so wills, and frankly speaking i have rarely if ever seen (in my country at least) a guy who advocates that sort of thing (that non virgins are worthless) and whose other ideas i like. also tigranness, you had said that killing someone was against your religion (and i understand you are very religious) and later on say that anyone who puts a finger on your sister gets killd. how do the two square? thanks, cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Ali, You see, Tigrannes III is a HYPOCRITE. Such is the case of so many of those in the Us and elsewhere who claim that the are CHRISTIANS. The majority of these so-called Christian leaders became ministers primarily for the tax write-offs. The are unlike the image we have of Jesus as the day is to the night. Tigrannes states that he will kill any odar who goes near his sister and claims to be a Christian. He is clearly full of S---T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted October 10, 2002 Report Share Posted October 10, 2002 Nice comments Ali - I agree completely (all of what you said - but specifically that the more permiscous gals are more fun)...and at the same time I do not think that they necessarily would make lesser wives or mothers - not at all - these are pretty much independent attributes IMO. And if a gal wishes to "save herself for marraige" or such - thats OK too - but in fact i really feel sorry for her - that she has bought into this whole idea that sex is somehow bad and/or wrong - and that she must remain chaiste while such is not questioned for the male. And while I understand this concept of only giving yourself to one - yadda yadda yadda - I'm sorry I can't help but think that in general its complete bullshit. Life - and the variety of it and experiences - most assuradly including sex, intamacy and love - need not - and in fact I argue should not - be confined to just a single relationship. If so - well OK - but I think one really misses out...and again - we need more love (and sex) in this world - not less - for real (but by this I do not mean titilation and cheap stuff - there is quite enough of that) - but real love of other people and freer attitudes concerning sexual relations and norms. Doe sthis make any sense (it seems very obvious to me - though I know many will see this differently...) LOL Oh and hagarag - I agree with your comments too! [ October 10, 2002, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aurguplu Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by hagarag:Ali, You see, Tigrannes III is a HYPOCRITE. Such is the case of so many of those in the Us and elsewhere who claim that the are CHRISTIANS. The majority of these so-called Christian leaders became ministers primarily for the tax write-offs. The are unlike the image we have of Jesus as the day is to the night. Tigrannes states that he will kill any odar who goes near his sister and claims to be a Christian. He is clearly full of S---T.hagarag, i wouldn't necessarily call tigrannes a hypocrite. after all, change hye to turk and his outlook is the one of the typical turk (or arab/kurd/persian, even greek to some extent). we have that mentality around the mediterranean basin and we shouldn't forget that in antiquity, or not-so antiquity, much of the rest of the world had a similar mentality, too. i am sure it was there when christianity was born, and traces of double standards of this kind have even made it to the civil codes of the most civilised nations, not necessarily middle eastern. for instance, according to the english civil code, a marriage would be automatically annulled if the wife were found to be pregnant by another man at the time of the wedding. if the converse were true (man having a bun cooking on another oven) the woman would have no such redress. i gather there is plenty of evidence for our species to have been polygamous originally, and the move to monogamy is a fairly recent one in terms of human history. we have probably been polygamous and patriarchal for about 99,000 years of our 100,000 or so years of existence on this planet, and our outlook, behaviour, traditions, even our biology is shaped accordingly (the human species is as far as i know the only mammal species that does not have a "mating season"). now we are moving to a monogamous existence and equality of sexes, and during that transition time contradictions and controversies will inevitably surface. also, judaism, christianity and islam are all religions from the semitic part of the world, who are known to have had a very strict approach to female chastity very early on (female chastity was and is considered to be the most important badge of a man's honour). our religions clearly state female chastity as a necessary part of good religious practice, and today the "alternative" views come from cultures where christianity/islam/judaism are being diluted by other influences. i myself do believe that the current thinking will eventually prevail or at least not be suppressed/scorned etc., but i wouldn't necessarily call a christian/muslim/jew a hypocrite for having trouble to square the two conflicting viewpoints. we have exactly the same problem in turkey and many people (especially men) have exactly the same opinion and reaction as tigrannes. so while i disagree with tigrannes on his views on this particular subject, i see him as someone perhaps having trouble as he adheres to a world view that was formed two millennia earlier but lives today, rather than a hypocrite. cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 Thank you Ali for shedding some light upon the subject. It is beoming all too clear to me that despite the fact that my genes are 88% Armenian and 12% Assyrian, that attitudinally I am not very Mediterranean or Middle Eastern at all. It is not only the Armenian mentality that drives me up a wall, but the mentality of the whole region. My father made great strides to forget his family's illustrious past in the Ottoman Empire and to raise his children as pure Americans. He succeeded with my brother, who has almost no Armenian consciousness at all and whose views were overwhelmed by his Jewish ex-wife. My father did not succeed with me, as I harbor vestiges of Armenian consciousness instilled by my grandmother, who was functionally mentally ill after her experiences during the Genocide. She did not and was not capable of adhering to my father's demands that the children be cut totally from their heritage. It is becoming increasingly more apparent to me that my clashes with my ex-wife were based in her Armenian viewpoints, instilled in her by her Beirutsi Armenian family. Her apprach to the world drove me up the wall. Perhaps Dickran Kouyoumjian, the likes of Gregory Peck's grandfather and my father had it right-forge ahead and NEVER look back. I am sure most Turks would be very pleased if the remnants of the Genocide did just that. Then the job of Talaat, Enver and Jemal would no longer remain incomplete. The Armenians would pass into the dustbin of history. You Levantines all drive me up the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 Dear Azat, thank you for reminding us of one of the many ways women choose to cover up their non-virginity. This topic leads me to another, namely that of handkerchiefs. I think we all know about this practice, and the fact that it is still very common among ME'ers, including Armenians in Armenia and Diaspora. I think we are also aware of what happens to girls in those communities when they are unable to provide blood. And I'm sure we are all equally aware of the fact that not all women bleed the first time, or if they do, it is not enough to show for. Again we are confronted with a human rights' violation, which is unfortunately neglected and dismissed by most community members and their leaders. Hagarag, I completely see where you're coming from. Ali, thanks for posting on this thread. I hope you continue to do so. Nairi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aurguplu Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 dear hagarag, i understand your frustration and indignation with the levantines and the whole region. it is indeed very hypocritical and drives me up the wall as well. but the more you attack them, the more stubborn they will get in their resistance to new ideas. someone like tigrannes should find his answers on his own, not by outside pressure. i will tell you a very moving experience i had during the 1999 earthquake where i was working as a volunteer: i made for the region (izmit-gölcük on the marmara) with a group of turkish yuppies from istanbul in an air-conditoned jeep, and was then transferred to a military base to be sent by military helicopter over to gölcük. there were a few guys waiting there to be dispatched as craft became available. one of them was a very religious looking young guy with a skullcap and a huge beard. during our brief conversation he said something that affected me: "i saw one thing during this disaster. brother, this nation loves one another." this was a particularly important remark for me, for the religious guys (and religion in power in general) receives more or less the same press in turkey as turks receive in armenian circles, and we (the secularists) receive the same press in religious literature as turks do in armenian literature. in turkish we have a saying if you call a man a madman for forty days, he'll go mad". likewise, if you call the other side "hypocrite, bigot, enemy" etc. they will eventually become that, because it is human nature. also we should not forget that as there are many men who would like to marry virgins, there are also many women who would like to stay virgin until married. after all, the point of life is the pursuit of happiness, isn't it? let them find one another and be happy. cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koko Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 Is the guy marring a person, or a virgin??? Is the guy marring a person, or a virgin??? Is the guy marring a person, or a virgin??? Is the guy marring a person, or a virgin??? We women are refered as virgins meaning a sexualobject. I want a man who is virgin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koko Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 -- [ October 11, 2002, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: koko ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koko Posted October 11, 2002 Report Share Posted October 11, 2002 quote:Originally posted by koko:Originally posted by koko:[qb]Is the guy marring a person, or a virgin??? Is the guy marring a person, or a virgin??? Is the guy marring a person, or a virgin??? Is the guy marring a person, or a virgin??? We women are refered as virgins meaning a sexualobject. I want a man who is virgin?We are thinking humanbeeing . We, man and women in moder time will Not except women beeing abused , tortured , raped, and at the same time the have to stay virgin. Is is not fine that these primitive rules still ruines lives of women all around the world. If men say(or women), hey why not we live in a equal socialty why don't women take place, or become professorsthen why don't they also release and admit that the world is not a womens world? Why dont they object against the discrimination that exist in many forms around the world? By saying that women and men have equal rights and oppurtuinities, the socialty of today becomes a democratic and "right way".It becomes a reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted October 12, 2002 Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 Ali, It is fine that those seeking virgins should find happiness with those women who have chosen to remain virgins. However, for a whole community to denigrate and "throw into the mud" any woman who is not, is not only morally rephensible but is clearly counter-productive. I remember very well in the 70's the reaction I got from prominent Armenians when I proposed at a meeting that the Armenians develop a telethon with Cher as it's anchor to raise funds for Armenian causes. They had already cast her out of the Armenian race, a woman who to now is the only Armenian ever to win an Academy Award. So Armenian traditions have not only held our people together for centuries, but have also acted as a detriment to our progress. Ditto for most of the Islamic world. The Jews are more progressive because for centuries they lived outside of the Middle East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 Gawd, reading Tigrannes' posts I get the feeling of reading some KKK about racial stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitterSweet Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 I want my husband to be a virgin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 I hope you don't go through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyebruin Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 I hope you don't go through this. is there a more cruel punishment than that? i read this onion thing a while back and still it pops in my head once in a while and i'm like...oh goddddd!!! have mercy on that poor bride!!! ---for god's sake he wouldn't touch anything (his or hers) to help with the..uh uh..."mechanics" of the act because it was sinful!!! sometimes you wonder! all this pent up frustration (which would mean he never pleasured himself either!! ) has already affected their brain and their behaviour!!!! i cannot imagine a normal guy not ever touching himself--and that's exactly what this b.s. article was getting at!!!!~~~~urrrr!! i'm saying b.s. because it is so unbelievable that i think someone just made the whole thing up!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 i'm saying b.s. because it is so unbelievable that i think someone just made the whole thing up!! You think? You may be more right than you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitterSweet Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 (edited) lol it was a joke. and yes, that is possible, maybe not probable... i have a male friend who is extremely "religoius" who has chosen to stay a virgin until marriage ( yet he doesnt expect his wife to be) and yes, he is armenian. Edited October 20, 2003 by BitterSweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheekY Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 "As with millions of young newlyweds who haven't yet had sex," John said, "there was some nervousness and confusion at first. But after a couple of minutes, we figured out that it would be easier if Linda separated her legs to facilitate entry." LMAO!!! this is the funniest thing I've ever read! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheekY Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 Well if the girl isn’t a virgin then the guy (if it's that important) should try to understand why she’s not…maybe she was in a long-term committed relationship and thought he was "the one" so she gave it up…it wouldn’t be fair to leave her if she did it cause she was really in love. Besides, if you really love the girl you’ll forgive her no matter what... some wives forgive their husbands for cheating on them...why should't you not marry a non-virgin?! don't judge a book by it's cover lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 is there a more cruel punishment than that? i read this onion thing a while back and still it pops in my head once in a while and i'm like...oh goddddd!!! have mercy on that poor bride!!! ---for god's sake he wouldn't touch anything (his or hers) to help with the..uh uh..."mechanics" of the act because it was sinful!!! sometimes you wonder! all this pent up frustration (which would mean he never pleasured himself either!! ) has already affected their brain and their behaviour!!!! i cannot imagine a normal guy not ever touching himself--and that's exactly what this b.s. article was getting at!!!!~~~~urrrr!! i'm saying b.s. because it is so unbelievable that i think someone just made the whole thing up!! Come on, kiddo, it's The Onion. Unlike Bushisms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 "As with millions of young newlyweds who haven't yet had sex," John said, "there was some nervousness and confusion at first. But after a couple of minutes, we figured out that it would be easier if Linda separated her legs to facilitate entry." LMAO!!! this is the funniest thing I've ever read! Something else to facilitate entry: Women who drink wine more likely to become pregnant - Wine Spectator Press release from the Office of the Caliph Istanbul (Stormy News Network, Wine Spectator Online) - With recent kafiri technological and scientific discoveries, it has been affirmed that wine induces ten times more pregnancies in the khind that drink than among those that don't. Therefore, an amendment to the Qur'an has been made and the Muslim world shall catch up with the non-Muslim population in numbers. From now on for every sinful glass of wine that a man drinks, women shall drink two. This will facilitate impregnation. Praise be to Allah and his favours which we shall not deny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 LOL Stormy...(Caliph press release...here here!)...and agree concerning feelings about Tigrannes comments... One must consider though - that (in some cases) too much wine - for the male - may act to make the object of entry less hard (regardless of the female's wine based "greasing"/receptivness as it were...)...making entry more difficult because its less hard...I know this may not seem to make any sense...how something less hard can equate to harder/more difficult (for entry)...but in some cases it can actually be much less difficult when it is in fact harder... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel4hope Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 i agree w/ skittles- becuase i believe that physical virginity is not a measureof ones personality and characteristics- or ones morals concerning other situations----- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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