Marrying a Virgin?

[Sip]

Dear Jug, then why don't you give up your fast car, your computer, and your chicks? Don't you want to be a "REAL" armenian? I am 100% sure that our ancestors did NOT drive fast cars. I am also fairly sure they didn't mess with computers. Heck they probably didn't even have cel phones. So why change? Why give all those traditions up? Why not walk to work or ride a mule? It was working soooooooo well before http://zr2.cs.ucla.edu/Sip/zr2/barf.gif

[Harut]

let me make something clear.

i was not advocating complete celibacy before marriage. neither was i justifying any "human rights violations" that occur around the issue.

 

by my previous posts i was trying to show what to expect when communicating with people who believe in that way of life.

[Sip]

My point is, you can NOT stop change. The only real question is, can you change for the better?

 

---

Wow Harut, I post 2 things in 30 seconds and you manage to sneak in there? Not bad

 

[ October 05, 2002, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Sip ]

[Harut]

nairi, this person is not the norm, he is an exception.

 

my second cousin married a black man and was pragnent before marriage but nobody was after killing her or her child.

true, people (extended famlily members, parents) were shocked at the beginning but NOBODY had such intentions.

she is never left out of any occasions, neither is her husband.

in fact she, with her husband and kid, has moved to live in her parents' multi-unit house, next door to her parents and other Armenian tenants.

[Harut]

who said that our free and independent counterparts (ie people in Armenia) aren't reversing the situation. just look at the youth of Armenia. how many of them are living the way people used to live 10-20 years ago?

[Harut]

now, don't be so sure about yourself.

 

axr, menq iran shat enq sirum, e.

[Harut]

who does it hurt if most women/girls of Armenian desent stay virgins until marriage?

 

also, i don't think that anybody gets hurt when women/girls choose to have sex before marriage. at least it's not as horrible situation as we put here. of course there are people like the one nairi described above, but i don't think they are many.

 

excactly my point. just give them some time.

[Harut]

common. do you really think slavary and virginity(or not being virgin) have the same amount of impact on society, peoples' lives, etc?

 

if this is the case than you have all the rights to do so.

 

the thing that upsets me is that i don't like to see people of Weastern way of thinking attacking conservative people (be that in Armenia or in the West) because of their way of thinking. of course, unless there really is the need to do so, like in Afghanistan (concerning women's situation).

 

if the question is directed to me, then be advised, i, in no way, support what the followers of Chirstianity have done to the world. (concerning things like the one mentioned above)

[Harut]

i'm quick, aren't i?

[Azat]

Says who Sip? Here is more infor for you.

 

After digging to a depth of 100m last year, Azeri scientists found traces of copper wiring dating back 1000 years, and came to the conclusion that their ancestors already had a telephone network one thousand years ago.

 

So as not to be outdone, in the weeks that followed, Georgian scientists dug 200m, and headlines in the Tiblisi newspapers read: "Georgian scientists have found traces of 2000 year old optical fibers, and have concluded that their ancestors already had advanced high-tech digital telephone 1000 years earlier than the Azeri's."

 

One week later, the Armen press reported the following: "After digging as deep as 500m, Armenian scientists have found absolutely nothing. They have concluded that 5000 years ago, their ancestors were already using mobile phones."

[Sip]

http://zr2.cs.ucla.edu/Sip/zr2/roflmao.gif

[THOTH]

Harut - perhaps we are less far apart in our thinking then...well then I would ever have thought...LOL - still there is (much) more to this virginity issue then the narrow view...and marriage (in the West) just isn't what it used to be...(in general)

 

Seaphan - exactly! (didn't know you were so smart boy! ...but perhaps I did..)

 

Azat - yeah - had seen this one before (possibly posted by you? ) Very funny - and so very true I think..

[Accelerated]

Sip jan, keep your pants on, I never advocated that we should give up technology and change, just as long as it doesnt compromise our culture....

[Accelerated]

nairi,

 

on the subject of human rights and being a hypocrite.......

 

The other day I saw a special report on the BBC in regards to people traffiking in Europe. As you might know young women in from Eastern Europe are basically inslaved and bought to Western Europe (this case it was Belgium, right next to you) to work in the sex industry. I saw some horrific footage of young women dressed in only bikinis dancing (hours on end) in basically what were 'shop-windows' (for brothels)! Presumably you could go in and say I want the one in that window. Some of the footage was taken in broad daylight, ie. girls dancing in the windows in broad daylight also.

 

I suspect this would be no better (if not worse) in Holland. The Animals in the impoverished Yerevan Zoo are treated better, so I say clean up your own backyard before accusing us of anything!

[joseph]

What i am geting here is that people should not have any codes for behavior or dress, and what ever you like to do go ahead and do, and dont dare tell your children what is right and what is wrong,are you people thinking about a world with no ristrictions what so ever. in afghanistan they forced women to cover head to toe, here in the west we pay theme to take their clothes off and have sex and be prostitutes and we tell theme that this is freedome. so the ultimom freedome is whene you take your clothes off and have sex and loose your verjenity , Hmmmmmm

[nairi]

Where the West has laws protecting women, Armenia has not established ONE law protecting our rights. Domestic violence in Armenia is considered a personal matter that the authorities should not interfere in. Meanwhile TENS OF THOUSANDS of Armenian women are SEVERELY abused (sometimes KILLED) by their husbands each year.

 

Accelerated, every time you see an Armenian girl behind a window in Germany or Amsterdam, remember that it was another Armenian who lured her there, and it is another Armenian who is making money off her.

 

Harut jan, unfortunately, my second cousin's story is NOT an exception. I can give you a THOUSAND more examples like that. But the issue is not whether this type of scenario occurs frequently or not, it is that there is no law protecting women when it does (e.g. by arresting such a father, husband, brother etc.). Instead, this type of situation, even in its most extreme form, is considered "personal", as opposed to "illegal".

 

Nairi

[Accelerated]

nairi,

 

Yes, but there isnt much point if they arnt enforced....

 

Im not an expert on statistics, but I dont think 'tens of thousands are severely abused'.

 

I will just say one thing.....there wouldnt be supply if there wasnt demand....simple law of economics

[nairi]

Ov e asoom vor they're not enforced? There's a hundred institutions in Holland alone where you can go as an abused woman and you will get protection. Maybe Australia is more backward when it comes to reinforcing such laws, but Holland is pretty strict.

 

It's because you're not a woman, and therefore you automatically care less about what's abuse and what's not. But it does add up to tens of thousands.

 

Do you realize what you're saying? Child p***ography is also in demand, does that mean Armenians should supply children to those who demand it?

[Accelerated]

btw.

 

I am in no way against introducing laws in Armenia in regards to domestic violence, and I do regard men who assault women (let alone their wives) the lowest form of life. I just think that it will make little difference because men prone to domestic violence are more or less mentally ill, and this 'illness' will exist regardless of laws, customs, religion, culture etc.

[Accelerated]

nairi,

 

Really? I guess thats why people trafficking is such a flourishing (and growing) trade there....

 

LOL....yes that is exactly what I am saying

[Accelerated]

Yes. And I also trade in women and child p***ography.........so bite me!

[nairi]

It is a flourishing trade all over the world! And one way to STOP our innocent girls from ending up in some brothel in Malaysia or Germany, is to provide them with adequate information; another, to arrest the Armenian pimps who get involved in such distasteful deeds. We cannot expect Europe to do EVERYTHING for us. It's time we learned to wipe our own butts!

 

Also, it's not like there aren't any European organizations trying to free these girls from their troubles. But it's pretty tough when you have a large well-organized Armenian mafia ready to kill anyone who dares to touch their income.

[Accelerated]

nairi,

 

I stand by what I said earlier, if there wasnt any demand there wouldnt be a supply.

 

Do you think they dont know where their going and what they will be doing? They know better than you and me......its just that they dont realise how bad it might get (ie. virtual inslavement)

 

Again if supply is needed, people are required to organise it and make it efficient.....

 

Everything? Europe is doing nothing! Except pointless efforts to please the media and YOU.

[Accelerated]

Actually, its probably fair to say that European governments are relativelly powerless, its gotten to the point where society will no longer except a total bann on prostitution (and that is the only measure that can be taken to stem the flow)

[nairi]

That's what I mean: ADEQUATE information. Not lies or sugar-coating.

 

So you're basically saying that we should continue to supply, instead of trying cut the supply, for instance by creating jobs that do not require physical/sexual abuse.

 

My point exactly. It's time we learned to wipe our own butts, instead of waiting for Europe to save us.