THOTH

no wonder

Hymn 43 Oh father high in heaven -- smile down upon your son whose busy with his money games -- his women and his gun. Oh Jesus save me! And the unsung Western hero killed an Indian or three and made his name in Hollywood to set the white man free. Oh Jesus save me! If Jesus saves -- well, He'd better save Himself from the gory glory seekers who use His name in death. Oh Jesus save me! I saw him in the city and on the mountains of the moon -- His cross was rather bloody -- He could hardly roll His stone. Oh Jesus save me!

Thick As A Brick Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think. Your sperm's in the gutter -- your love's in the sink. So you ride yourselves over the fields and you make all your animal deals and your wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick. And the sand-castle virtues are all swept away in the tidal destruction the moral melee. The elastic retreat rings the close of play as the last wave uncovers the newfangled way. But your new shoes are worn at the heels and your suntan does rapidly peel and your wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick. And the love that I feel is so far away: I'm a bad dream that I just had today -- and you shake your head and say it's a shame. Spin me back down the years and the days of my youth. Draw the lace and black curtains and shut out the whole truth. Spin me down the long ages: let them sing the song. See there! A son is born -- and we pronounce him fit to fight. There are black-heads on his shoulders, and he pees himself in the night. We'll make a man of him put him to trade teach him to play Monopoly and to sing in the rain. The Poet and the painter casting shadows on the water -- as the sun plays on the infantry returning from the sea. The do-er and the thinker: no allowance for the other -- as the failing light illuminates the mercenary's creed. The home fire burning: the kettle almost boiling -- but the master of the house is far away. The horses stamping -- their warm breath clouding in the sharp and frosty morning of the day. And the poet lifts his pen while the soldier sheaths his sword. And the youngest of the family is moving with authority. Building castles by the sea, he dares the tardy tide to wash them all aside. The cattle quietly grazing at the grass down by the river where the swelling mountain water moves onward to the sea: the builder of the castles renews the age-old purpose and contemplates the milking girl whose offer is his need. The young men of the household have all gone into service and are not to be expected for a year. The innocent young master -- thoughts moving ever faster -- has formed the plan to change the man he seems. And the poet sheaths his pen while the soldier lifts his sword. And the oldest of the family is moving with authority. Coming from across the sea, he challenges the son who puts him to the run. What do you do when the old man's gone -- do you want to be him? And your real self sings the song. Do you want to free him? No one to help you get up steam -- and the whirlpool turns you `way off-beam. LATER. I've come down from the upper class to mend your rotten ways. My father was a man-of-power whom everyone obeyed. So come on all you criminals! I've got to put you straight just like I did with my old man -- twenty years too late. Your bread and water's going cold. Your hair is too short and neat. I'll judge you all and make damn sure that no-one judges me. You curl your toes in fun as you smile at everyone -- you meet the stares. You're unaware that your doings aren't done. And you laugh most ruthlessly as you tell us what not to be. But how are we supposed to see where we should run? I see you shuffle in the courtroom with your rings upon your fingers and your downy little sidies and your silver-buckle shoes. Playing at the hard case, you follow the example of the comic-paper idol who lets you bend the rules. So! Come on ye childhood heroes! Won't you rise up from the pages of your comic-books your super crooks and show us all the way. Well! Make your will and testament. Won't you? Join your local government. We'll have Superman for president let Robin save the day. You put your bet on number one and it comes up every time. The other kids have all backed down and they put you first in line. And so you finally ask yourself just how big you are -- and take your place in a wiser world of bigger motor cars. And you wonder who to call on. So! Where the hell was Biggles when you needed him last Saturday? And where were all the sportsmen who always pulled you though? They're all resting down in Cornwall -- writing up their memoirs for a paper-back edition of the Boy Scout Manual. LATER. See there! A man born -- and we pronounce him fit for peace. There's a load lifted from his shoulders with the discovery of his disease. We'll take the child from him put it to the test teach it to be a wise man how to fool the rest. QUOTE We will be geared to the average rather than the exceptional God is an overwhelming responsibility we walked through the maternity ward and saw 218 babies wearing nylons cats are on the upgrade upgrade? Hipgrave. Oh, Mac. LATER In the clear white circles of morning wonder, I take my place with the lord of the hills. And the blue-eyed soldiers stand slightly discoloured (in neat little rows) sporting canvas frills. With their jock-straps pinching, they slouch to attention, while queueing for sarnies at the office canteen. Saying -- how's your granny and good old Ernie: he coughed up a tenner on a premium bond win. The legends (worded in the ancient tribal hymn) lie cradled in the seagull's call. And all the promises they made are ground beneath the sadist's fall. The poet and the wise man stand behind the gun, and signal for the crack of dawn. Light the sun. Do you believe in the day? Do you? Believe in the day! The Dawn Creation of the Kings has begun. Soft Venus (lonely maiden) brings the ageless one. Do you believe in the day? The fading hero has returned to the night -- and fully pregnant with the day, wise men endorse the poet's sight. Do you believe in the day? Do you? Believe in the day! Let me tell you the tales of your life of your love and the cut of the knife the tireless oppression the wisdom instilled the desire to kill or be killed. Let me sing of the losers who lie in the street as the last bus goes by. The pavements ar empty: the gutters run red -- while the fool toasts his god in the sky. So come all ye young men who are building castles! Kindly state the time of the year and join your voices in a hellish chorus. Mark the precise nature of your fear. Let me help you pick up your dead as the sins of the father are fed with the blood of the fools and the thoughts of the wise and from the pan under your bed. Let me make you a present of song as the wise man breaks wind and is gone while the fool with the hour-glass is cooking his goose and the nursery rhyme winds along. So! Come all ye young men who are building castles! Kindly state the time of the year and join your voices in a hellish chorus. Mark the precise nature of your fear. See! The summer lightning casts its bolts upon you and the hour of judgement draweth near. Would you be the fool stood in his suit of armour or the wiser man who rushes clear. So! Come on ye childhood heroes! Won't your rise up from the pages of your comic-books your super-crooks and show us all the way. Well! Make your will and testament. Won't you? Join your local government. We'll have Superman for president let Robin save the day. So! Where the hell was Biggles when you needed him last Saturday? And where were all the sportsmen who always pulled you through? They're all resting down in Cornwall -- writing up their memoirs for a paper-back edition of the Boy Scout Manual. OF COURSE So you ride yourselves over the fields and you make all your animal deals and your wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick.

The real question you all should contemplate is when any post by the rat has ever turned into anything worth serious consideration on any level. Besides being an entirely inscincere and obviously unfeeling person it is clear that he primarily posts only for effect and his own amusment. Not worth the time really.

Exactly vava. And I have no interest in getting into this discusion further with anyone here who just doesn't get it. IMO those who are so focused on putting down the Jews at every oppurtunity are shameful Armenians and shameful people. Certainly Jewish groups and Israel often act in ways that deserve condemnation - etc - and I have no problem doing so (funny but I've been called anti-Semetic and have been shunned by a Jewish in-law of mine for positions I have taken regarding Israel & Palestinians etc - we didn't talk for almost 2 years and I refused to apologize for my comments - creating a big family rift - and what a joke to call me anti-semetic - lol) - but this isn't the point - the issue is people having what is for the most part an irrational hatred of Jews - and this exists and has existed in western society for milenia - its a real phenomona - and it goes beyond the various ethnic hatreds that exist all over). For the most part they are just people like eveyone else - and in fact share much in terms of culture/attitudes and various with Armenians - so think about that a bit when you imediatly jump on the anti-Jew bandwagon. Get over it already. Try to be just a bit enlightened for once in yoru life. (and I have absolutly no interest in hearing ant-Jewish diatribes - what a waste of time & energy - OK - "they" killed Christ - etc - get over it already - oh and those Jews aren't the same as these Jews - etc etc - but you can conviently lump them all together when it comes time to spew racism and hate...

Nice post (1st one) Tigrannes. Nice to see you again and to see that you have grown up a bit. Though I fully see where you are comming from - and agree with a lot of what you say - I still think the Genocide is a very impotant issue for us - and I for one - am not yet ready to sell the memories of my lost kin so cheaply by letting Turkey off the hook and allowing what occured to be forgotten...of course much could be said about how poorly this issue has been handled by most all organized Armenian groups and we also understand that perpetuation (of the status quo) sometimes means more to some then resolution...

I find it funny that the people who most brush off the idea that there is anti-semitsim are the ones who are always the most obviously anti-semetic. (and this arabs are semites thing is pitiful - so what if they are - its clear that the issue is hatred of Jews - and it exists - and its pretty sad/sick - IMO (regardless) - and particualry comming from Armenians who have had similar done to them.....most sad....

Shame that none of these folks really has an understanding of what Democracy (and achieving it) is all about and that they choose this to focus on instead of the real issues in the Middle East - its another "weapons of Mass destruction" type thing IMO - always ellusive and always there to use as an excuse to do something totally inane and otherwise unfathamable.... That being said a very good friend of mine is one of those in charge of the elections in Iraq! lol....I wish him luck (and hope he can manage to get out alive....)

Vava - I understand your point - but what I am saying is that it indeed was in extremely bad taste and that decent people should be very offended. I am shocked at all those (Armenians and otherwise) here who seem to think its no big deal. IMO it is a big deal. And he is 20 years old...not so much a kid anymore really - how could he be so stupid - rebellious or not....

Spectra - I just perused some threads over there and they are a riot. You should reference Mehemt Ali Acga - the guy who shot the pope - certainy a well known Turkish terorist as well as poitn out the number of Turks killed in Chechnya. Another point is that Turks are notorious deniers - just as they flat out deny that Turks could possibly be terroists they deny that Turks could have possibly commited Genocide - do we see a disturbing (and telling) pattern here. Anyway - keep after them...I know they make themsleves look stupid & silly to all - but its also a good oppurtunity for us to elaborate on that a bit...

If you are not offended you are either callous or just ignorant - and I am really pretty amazed at all those here who think its no big deal - thats really sad - I thought most here were a bit more on the ball. I can't even begin to explain why such is highly offensive if you just don't get it - aparently - particularly for a public/political figure...and considering what England went through in WWII (all who died and who sacrificed and who suffered - etc) - and he is perhaps one day to be King - and is now Royalty over there - no - extremely bad taste and lacking in all sensitivity. And you are aware that most all Nazi stuff is just out and out banned througout much of Europe - well certainly in Germany and I suspect France and elsewhere - and there is a reason for that. Most sad. And additionlly - being Armenians - who have been victimized by the same sorts - one would think at least we could understand why such is no laughing matter...

He is 20 years old - not just a kid - and it is insulting - or should be - to everyone. Yeah Nazis - thats the ticket - oh no problem - world domination, enslavement, genocide - killing of millions - whats the big deal?

Just as an aside - both our children were baptised into the Swedenborgian Church BTW... http://www.wayfarerschapel.org/

Yes this is true - but having spent alot of time around Greeks I can assure you that Armenians do not have a Monopoly on hating Turks -not at all...lol

Well is this a quote from the book or not? Seems like the issue of learn vs remember is covered here and this is what I (acuratly) comented on. I've read this exact type of viewpoint before - its nothing new - and its equally nothing of any merit. I think I have a very good understanding of this issue and really have no need to waste my time reading more of this sort of self-indugent crap.

No need to - seen this sort of bunk before...

sounds like a classic! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100931/?fr=c2...fc=6;ft=20;fm=1 And I do remember the Armenia being near Greece coment BTW...

irrelevant? no.....lol I think I made my point quite well - science cannot give us all of the answers because it is limted by our level of understanding and the development of the science itself - even apart form any concern weather science can explain everything even if all the tools were at its disposal - if scientific method - reporting the results of empircle obsevation and testing under controled conditons etc etc - is sufficinet to answer all questions of the universe - etc etc And you are wrong regarding the question of "why" - science exists to explain why - that is its purpose. "Why do things fall to earth?" - well son - its becaus eof this thing called gravity...and gravity is created because of....etc etc.....yes these things are answers to "why".....

Supernatural - belief in such - is not at all the same as religion or god/belief in god/gods etc - it is merely an aknowledgement of the unexplainable... su·per·nat·u·ral Pronunciation: "sü-p&r-'na-ch&-r&l, -'nach-r&l Function: adjective Etymology: Medieval Latin supernaturalis, from Latin super- + natura nature 1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; 2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature I should note that I don't believe in anything that "transcends the laws of nature" - only that there may exist phenomenon that apear to do so - based on our limited understanding of such... Oh & BTW - your response says nothgin to rugute my point about the limitations of science and how scientific knowlwedge evolves through time (thus why I can accept it to a degree - but am ultimatly not convinced)...etc ...and you claim to be one with the open mind...not...etc

Ok then - well thats a first (someone here agreeing with me...or at least admitting that)...don't look now - but you will be shunned... And maybe I'm just wrong - eh? Perhaps we exist so that we can meditate on our existance..yeah...thats the ticket...

wrong - sure scientific method is empiricle in nature - experiment - discount that which does not fit etc etc - but ultimatly the goal is to adress the "why" (causation) of things - not just to report observations...I mean that is what theorms are all about - no?

Actually this speaks to the limitions of your belief. While I adhere to scientific method as the best for offering realistic explanations for things (and better then speculation based on professed religious type beliefs) - I also understand that science is also limited and can only tell us so much - and perhaps next to nothing about certain things (may be due to limitations in the advancement of science - but also may be that science/scientific method just not the end all answer to everything). Many times in our past - and contuinuing today - we have found that the science and scientific understanding of the day is superseeded by new knowlwedge/new forms of knowledge that were unfathamable just prior to discovery - thus it will be with (much of/most? of) the science of today - eventually. And the people of the future will study and laugh at our ignorance...and future peoples (if we survive) will do the same to them - and so on and so forth. You - like most - make the mistake of being stuck in time....

What kind of question is that? Of course we should hope and expect that all have an oppurtunity for a long and satisfying life with good times, friends and family....etc

Yes of course - all so very typical... http://home.att.net/~meditation/CommonLies.html http://home.att.net/~meditation/Osho.html I don't agree with all this guy has to say per se - but he makes some good points... the following is excerpted from: Do you have a soul? Is it time to create a science based religion that does not promote belief in magic and the supernatural? - Medical research has shown that if you stimulate certain areas of the brain with a small electric current, you can give people the experience of spiritual visitation. You cannot remove consciousness from the physical body because consciousness is a physical phenomena created by chemistry, just as a firefly's light is created by chemical reactions. That is why you can turn consciousness on or off by injecting a person with drugs to wake them up or to put them to sleep. Near death experiences or even certain drugs can give you the feeling of being outside of your body, but researchers say that is just an illusion of the holographic nature of the human brain. After many years of seeing the rampant corruption of gurus, "enlightened" or not, the idiocy of disciples, cults, and organized religion, and with the new scientific evidence in hand, I find the soul-reincarnation-karma theory far less plausible. A strong survival instinct is built into our DNA code from our long evolutionary journey from bacteria to man. When that survival instinct collides with self-conscious knowledge of our impending death, the brain itself needs both a neurological and psychological barrier to block the conflict and tension. That barrier we call religious belief and "the God part of the brain." The theory states that man has invented myths of God, soul, reincarnation, karma, and afterlife as a way to provide the brain with mental opium, a buffer to the constant ticking clock inside our heads that tells us our inevitable doom is getting closer every day. Man's philosophical beliefs have also been shaped by a survival contest of world religions to see which religion can most completely satisfy our emotional needs for a feeling of comfort and safety. Reincarnation and immortal karma were a way ancient peoples could explain the inherent inequities of life, death, disease, riches, and poverty in religious terms that often had no basis in fact. A summary of the main issues 1) There is no positive proof for the existence of souls, immortal karma, reincarnation, or any spiritual afterlife. It is interesting to note that in their last years even Osho and J. Krishnamurti reversed themselves and stated there was no reincarnation and thus presumably no soul. If there is no reincarnation and no heaven or hell, then the question of soul is moot. 2) There are legitimate science based alternate explanations for phenomena attributed to souls and immortal karma. The enlightened teachers seem to confuse the effects of DNA for the effects of soul. For example, people with higher intelligence and a more finely articulated DNA code are perceived by them as being older and higher souls. 3) There are obvious profit and political power motives for those who promote belief in the supernatural. How many gurus have made fortunes off the idea of souls and reincarnation? How many monasteries, ashrams, churches, mosques, and synagogues would go out of business if people found out there is no soul or immortal karma? How can governments and the religious hierarchies control the masses if word leaks out that we all end up in the same state of eternal unconsciousness when we die, no matter how we behave while we are alive? Would there be a Vatican City or Tibetan Portola Palace without a belief in souls and/or immortal karma? The idea of soul has historically been as much a matter of politics as it has been an issue of personal religious belief. 4) It is highly probable that human animals have a built in genetic predisposition to avoid the inevitable fact of our future death in order to reduce fear and stress. Our brains create myths of God, soul, immortal karma, reincarnation, and afterlife as a buffer against the hurtful knowledge of the inevitable demise of ourselves and everyone we know and love. By inventing myths of afterlife and/or reincarnation the brain can exist comfortably without the highly charged survival instinct electrically connecting to the newfound knowledge of the inevitability of our future death. The supernatural myths thus act as a resistive electrical shunt, blocking a dangerous short circuit between two parts of the brain. 5) Life on earth was created through the non-human laws of chemistry, physics, and probability. Strands of chemicals (DNA) were created by sheer accident and replicated themselves faster than they could be destroyed. By further accident, some DNA strands became encased in protective shells which increased their survivability dramatically, creating the first bacteria. From simple bacteria more complexity was added until a myriad of multi-cell creatures were produced. Through this slow process of evolution over billions of years there was never any need for soul, except as a myth to help human animals deal with their growing consciousness of the inevitable time-death equation. The logistical mathematics of the soul theory do not add up. Does every new bacteria, seed, egg, minnow, spider, or cockroach that appears in the world demand a soul to go along with its already sufficient DNA code? We know that humans evolved from bacteria. Where did soul come into the picture and why? Is there a printing press somewhere stamping out trillions of new souls every day to keep up with the demand? The soul theory lacks logical credibility and science has shown us that the universe is extremely logical in its structure, formation, and evolution. 6) The famous film director Alfred Hitchcock often added a ploy to his movies called a "MacGuffin." The MacGuffin distracted the audience long enough so that suspense could be created and the plot could develop without giving away the true course of the story. In the end the MacGuffin had no meaning in itself. Likewise Hindus and Buddhists have invented complicated myths of reincarnation and/or immortal karma and declared that we are all trapped in a cycle of birth and death and that only our eventual enlightenment can free us. The Eastern traditions have created a highly sophisticated myth structure, but the underlying function of their myths is identical to the more childlike myths of Christianity, with its almighty God, angles, and heaven. The belief in immortal karma and reincarnation is the MacGuffin that keeps our minds diverted from the inevitability and finality of our own death.

not good enough