nairi Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:Actually, its probably fair to say that European governments are relativelly powerless, its gotten to the point where society will no longer except a total bann on prostitution (and that is the only measure that can be taken to stem the flow)There's no need for a ban on prostitution. There's a need for a ban on trafficking and trapping innocent women. Prostitution is the oldest occupation in the world, and there are plenty of girls who enjoy doing it. I'm thinking about the girls who are FORCED into it and held captive. Especially young teenage girls (sometimes no older than 11-12). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 quote:So you're basically saying that we should continue to supply, instead of trying cut the supply, for instance by creating jobs that do not require physical/sexual abuse.Firstly, we cant cut the supply, because if you kill one pimp, another will take his place and creating jobs isnt easy. Secondly, assuming that Armenia is successful in creating more chances for young women at home, what about the rest of the world? Half of it lives below the poverty line, hence supply is simply re-routed. This problem is the same as narcotics, it is the DEMAND (ie. people who utilise) that must be the point of focus, because if there is people who want something bad enough, they will get it one way or another. Kill demand, and supply will also disapeer, no other way....... [ October 07, 2002, 04:45 AM: Message edited by: Accelerated ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 As reluctant as I am to come in, I think this thread should be renamed "Psychopathic Idiots' Paradise." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 quote:As reluctant as I am to come in, I think this thread should be renamed "Psychopathic Idiots' Paradise."Yeah, we could do that, but I dont know if anyone would appreciate being put on the same high moral level as yourself. After all, as the saying goes "toon@ mi hat unnormal k'lini" Previously that post was reserved for hagarag, but since this is a pretty big house, you may join him. [ October 07, 2002, 05:30 AM: Message edited by: Accelerated ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 ....and that neck brace of yours must be made of titanium, because I just cant see anything else holding up your big head.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:Firstly, we cant cut the supply, because if you kill one pimp, another will take his place and creating jobs isnt easy. Secondly, assuming that Armenia is successful in creating more chances for young women at home, what about the rest of the world? Half of it lives below the poverty line, hence supply is simply re-routed. This problem is the same as narcotics, it is the DEMAND (ie. people who utilise) that must be the point of focus, because if there is people who want something bad enough, they will get it one way or another. Kill demand, and supply will also disapeer, no other way.......I'll have to agree with you on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:....and that neck brace of yours must be made of titanium, because I just cant see anything else holding up your big head....Accelerated jan, if there's one thing bullies are good at, it's not understanding. That's why I never bother replying. Cheers, Nairi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by nairi: quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:....and that neck brace of yours must be made of titanium, because I just cant see anything else holding up your big head....Accelerated jan, if there's one thing bullies are good at, it's not understanding. That's why I never bother replying.But I have to say that neck brace comment was FUNNY AS HELL! Totally out of line of course, but still, very funny. I seriously can't stop laughing ... (note that a good insult always makes up for lack of an agrument in my book). Ok jug, don't worry dude. I am keeping my pants on. Here's what you have said: quote:[some] advocate that we should give up our religion, our culture, our way of life....everything that differentiates us from other nations. If that were ever to happen we as a nation will cease to exist and just become a tiny part of a global mass blah blah blah quote:... I never advocated that we should give up technology and change, just as long as it doesnt compromise our culture....So I have to say you got me totally confused. On one hand, you are saying we should embrace technology and change ... on another hand you say we should not change our "way of life" ... So which changes compromise our culture? I would make the argument that ANY change by definition compromises "culture" (culture is NOT a constant my dear jug). The only thing is that I am having trouble understanding which changes you like, and which changes you don't like. I am guessing you don't like women becoming independent and having any power. However, you do like computers, cars, and other toys which improve YOUR position in the world. Hmmmmmmmmmm [ October 07, 2002, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Sip ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Sipan, what are you doing up so early?? Go back to bed! [ October 07, 2002, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: nairi ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by HOVSEP KASHISHIAN:What i am geting here is that people should not have any codes for behavior or dress, and what ever you like to do go ahead and do, and dont dare tell your children what is right and what is wrong,are you people thinking about a world with no ristrictions what so ever....No no no no no no no Hevsep jan! Don't let Tigrannes, Accelerated, and maybe Marco fool you with their tactics!!! For them, it's like a woman is either Married, a virgin, or a whore. Of course the world is NOT like that. Of course being NOT virgin does NOT mean you are a drug addict! Of course being NOT virgin does NOT mean you are a murdering, child-raping, canibal that kicks Panda bears on sight! No! It is not that easy. No one here is saying we should have "no restrictions what so ever." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by nairi:Sipan, what are you doing up so early?? Go back to bed! I finally broke down a BIG wall yesterday !!! I am totally on a roll and can't stop ... I'll sleep next week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Sip:But I have to say that neck brace comment was FUNNY AS HELL! Totally out of line of course, but still, very funny. You actually think there was a need for an argument here? I thought Accelerated's comment was completely IN line (and I have to say, very funny indeed!). Uh-oh, I'd better run before Mr. Heavy-Head Bully comes back! Later, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Sip: quote:Originally posted by nairi:Sipan, what are you doing up so early?? Go back to bed!smilies/lol2.gif I finally broke down a BIG wall yesterday !!! I am totally on a roll and can't stop ... I'll sleep next week smilies/disturbed.gif Congrads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco Posted October 7, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Such differences in opinion are great. Everyone rightfully should have their preferences, and if everyone prefered virgins for marriage then I guess non-virgins would have a tough time getting married. Of course the opposite is true as well. Diversity is what keeps things in balance. What I find somewhat interesting and surely welcoming is the open mindedness of most here. The Armenian fellows I had a chance to meet are definitely a lot more opinionated on this subject and a lot more 'traditional' or 'conservative' than the views expressed here. Again the benefit of diversity. Someone had said I and others put women arbitrarily into some categories, which is not true. I think surely there are some girls that are marriage material and others that arent. This is not to say that non-virgins are drug abusers or anything of that sort, it is more a preference that I guess gets instilled from culture and family where importance is placed on virginity. My friends who are married, at least the ones from middle eastern backgrounds all married virgin girls because virginity was expected and I am sure they would not have gotton married had the girl not been a virgin. Unless of course a previous marriage. Anyhow my American friends couldnt give a damn about virginity, eventhough if they had the choice they say they would prefer a virgin but in todays society they are a very rare breed and so cannot expect it. Finally, this virginity concept is surely not so blase as it has been made to appear here. There are a number of studies on the epidemiology of sexual diseases and sexual attitudes of men and women in Armenia that are readily available on the internet. It is interesting to see that eventhough sex is not an openly discussed subject, women respond in these studies the importance of being a virgin for their husbands, and where this requirement is not necessary for the men. This of course is typical throughout the middle east, and sure its a double standard but I think it is due to the differences in expectations and what each partner is expected to bring to the marriage. No one can doubt that not too long in history virginity before marriage was looked at as a noble, cherised, necessary quality in a woman. I understand things have changed in society, but surely there are some things which that are worth maintaining. And nairi, there is no need to get personal, this topic is not specific to anything or anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Nice post Marco! I can see I was waaaay off in putting you in the same category as Tigrannes and Jug. Please accept my appologies The cool thing about the Internet (and online public discussions) is that just by its nature, it tends to attract the more open-minded of the bunch. That's what I really like about it. Those who are going to continue riding their mules (<--- pun intended, direct translation from Armenian) will most likely not end up on the net anytime soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 Sip, quote:Totally out of line of coursemmmm, MJ insulted like everyone who posted on this thread (including yourself), and I am the one 'out of line'? Sorry, but if I had done something like that I would have gotten a warning at the least. I realise Martin has contributed (much) more to this forum than me, but that doesnt mean he should be allowed going around unsulting people willy nilly....... quote:note that a good insult always makes up for lack of an agrument in my bookhe didnt have an argument, looks like the wall you broke down also took apart part of your mind. I really think you should not put off sleep untill next week quote:On one hand, you are saying we should embrace technology and change ... on another hand you say we should not change our "way of life" ... So which changes compromise our culture? I would make the argument that ANY change by definition compromises "culture"by "way of life", I basically meant culture also. And ANY change doesnt compromise culture....I guess it would be up to the meaning of the word 'culture'. quote:For them, it's like a woman is either Married, a virgin, or a whore.I never said this, but i do believe this is an ideal, but the reallity is different... quote:No one here is saying we should have "no restrictions what so ever."THOTH is.... quote:I can see I was waaaay off in putting you in the same category as Tigrannes and Jug. mate, Juggernaut belongs in a category of his own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 nairi, quote:Accelerated jan, if there's one thing bullies are good at, it's not understanding. That's why I never bother replying.Yeah, I probably shouldnt have replied either, but I was half-way through a 2000 word essay on a tasteless topic, so I was in a pretty vile mood and couldnt resist the temptation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Accelerated:mmmm, MJ insulted like everyone who posted on this thread (including yourself), and I am the one 'out of line'?Do you really want to be like MJ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote:Do you really want to be like MJ?LOL.....to tell you honestly, I dont know enough about him, and recent events have lead me to believe he is Bitter Old Fart....so the answer is NO. Wouldnt mind his vocabulary though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Sip:I finally broke down a BIG wall yesterday !!! I am totally on a roll and can't stop ... I'll sleep next week So now are you/would you ever marry her? ...and "on a roll and can't stop" - well I understand - but are you saying with the same gal 9she must be good!) - or now must you move on to unconquored territory? (all in joking of course) And Accelerated - "no rules" - hm - not so sure...le tme just say that ideally people would need no rules, no laws, no restrictions because they would be mature and intelligent, and caring enough of other folks to not do things to hurt others - etc - but this is certainly the ideal - and we are far from this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote:Originally posted by THOTH:So now are you/would you ever marry her?I would ... but the state of California somehow seems to frown upon human/computer types of marriages. I also don't think I could then claim my laptops as my dependents on taxes quote:... ideally people would need no rules, no laws, no restrictions because they would be mature and intelligent, and caring enough of other folks to not do things to hurt others - etc - but this is certainly the ideal - and we are far from this...I have actually been pondering that topic for a few weeks (it came about once we had the discussion on the need for religeon in a civilized society)... Anyhoot... my current thinking is that I do not agree with you. I think in any society, explicit rules must always exist. The problems arises when your actions will benefit some and hurt others (it's bound to happen sooner or later). So which group do you pick? How do you resolve conflicts of interest? Suppose I am a very caring, intelligent human being. How do I decide, i.e. which metric do I use, to decide between alternative actions? Egoistic measures (my own happiness)? Utilitarian goals (happiness of the whole)? Or any combination of those? What if I decide to do what Kant says and decide on my actions based on the fact that "what if everyone did what I am doing" type of mentality? It is clear to me that none of those work all the time. Sometimes we need to make sure that we give advantage to minorities to make up for their lack of representation in the democratic process (assuming you think democracy is the way to go) ... Anyway, this is definitely a whole different topic for a whole different thread. By the way, nice job with Blue Thunder. Looks like you showed him who is BOSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 Dear Marco, I didn't mean to get personal, but I'm still interested to know how you expect a virgin to trust you after you've had so many relationships. Like Steve (bellthecat) said, why did you break off such a beautiful moment with that Greek girl? Why weren't you able to trust her? In my case, there IS a reason why my boyfriend and I broke up; and I think most serious relationships usually end like that: mutually. Personally, I don't see myself as a person who has a lost love. However, you are right in asserting that women may become pickier after they've had one or more serious relationships. But I consider this normal. Once you're about to break up with the person you thought you'd be with for the rest of your life, you begin to realize that "love at first sight" and "marrying without knowing each other", simply don't work in most cases. I'm trying to avoid a similar situation now. Do you think there's something wrong with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Sip: quote:Originally posted by THOTH:So now are you/would you ever marry her?I would ... but the state of California somehow seems to frown upon human/computer types of marriages. I also don't think I could then claim my laptops as my dependents on taxes LOL - well I'm sorry to hear you are being discriminated like this. Perhaps you need to start a society/movement - call it : "Man-Machine Interface" - and lobby for the right to date/marry etc your computer - and for an end to all discriminatory practices against Man-machine couples! LOL (or women-machine I guess....but there is already quite a bit of that! [vibe] - LOL) QUOTE]Originally posted by Sip: quote: quote:... ideally people would need no rules, no laws, no restrictions because they would be mature and intelligent, and caring enough of other folks to not do things to hurt others - etc - but this is certainly the ideal - and we are far from this...I have actually been pondering that topic for a few weeks (it came about once we had the discussion on the need for religeon in a civilized society)... Anyhoot... my current thinking is that I do not agree with you. I think in any society, explicit rules must always exist. The problems arises when your actions will benefit some and hurt others (it's bound to happen sooner or later). So which group do you pick? How do you resolve conflicts of interest? Suppose I am a very caring, intelligent human being. How do I decide, i.e. which metric do I use, to decide between alternative actions? Egoistic measures (my own happiness)? Utilitarian goals (happiness of the whole)? Or any combination of those? What if I decide to do what Kant says and decide on my actions based on the fact that "what if everyone did what I am doing" type of mentality? Sure - these are difficult issues - but my contention - "no rules" - is but an ideal - and not one that will ever be realized. It assumes that humans are smart, sensitive, undestanding etc enough to make the right choices - not just for themselves - but for everyone. It will never happen. QUOTE]Originally posted by Sip: quote:It is clear to me that none of those work all the time. Sometimes we need to make sure that we give advantage to minorities to make up for their lack of representation in the democratic process (assuming you think democracy is the way to go) ... Anyway, this is definitely a whole different topic for a whole different thread. agreed QUOTE]Originally posted by Sip: quote:By the way, nice job with Blue Thunder. Looks like you showed him who is BOSS Yeah - its about time I had a nice clean win. Hard to believe that I am 4-1 now! And without my "stud" - Faulk doing much. If he catches on fire there will be no stopping me...if...BTW - nice pick-up with Maddox against the Saints - dis you consult your girlfriend (computer) on that one? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 quote:Originally posted by nairi:Dear Marco, I didn't mean to get personal, but I'm still interested to know how you expect a virgin to trust you after you've had so many relationships. Like Steve (bellthecat) said, why did you break off such a beautiful moment with that Greek girl? Why weren't you able to trust her? In my case, there IS a reason why my boyfriend and I broke up; and I think most serious relationships usually end like that: mutually. Personally, I don't see myself as a person who has a lost love. However, you are right in asserting that women may become pickier after they've had one or more serious relationships. But I consider this normal. Once you're about to break up with the person you thought you'd be with for the rest of your life, you begin to realize that "love at first sight" and "marrying without knowing each other", simply don't work in most cases. I'm trying to avoid a similar situation now. Do you think there's something wrong with that?Good points Nairi - (yeah Marco - how can they trust you & where you have been? LOL) And hope everything works out for you Nairi - seems like you would make someone a very good partner one day! Cheer up now - it may look bleak now - but with your head on your shoulders and a good attitude I'm sure you will meet some guy who will be great for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco Posted October 8, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 Dear Nairi, I agree. There is no doubt that you have to become pickier and more selective as you consider someone for a long term relationship. As far as I am concerned, your right, I have had relationships short term and long term with a lot of different women, and if I were a girl, I would have a tough time with it! But, I cant go back into time and change my testosterone driven experiences with women, so I continue. I just hope the topic will never come up with my wife! lol In all seriousness, the fact is that in my culture, it really is not important what a guys past is unless he doesnt continue with such after marriage. For a girl its different. There is definitely a double standard. Anyhow, its time for me to pick up my hot, middle eastern, virgin date! lol Where are the virgins? lets hear from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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