Turkey Will Be Split Apart As Iraq Is.

[Mihr]

i agree with you

 

but you have to know that the French first asked the Armenians to go to Cilicia.

 

Then the French chose to stop the war against Turkey. There were secrets treaties between France and Turks

 

as a result, french armed forces just left the place by night without telling the Armenians there. they did not want to wake up the Armenians : they put something under their horses feet and they left.

 

So in the morning the Armenians realized the French had left them. they had no weapons. They were all killed by the Turks. thousands of deads. that's treason, nothing else... I know France has got some refugees, but it also betrayed and sent to death thousands of Armenians that day in Cilicia, by abandonning them.....

 

 

interesting opinion.

but im going to have to correct you there.

 

- russia has given our territories because the entire world has turned its back on it, it cant afford to make new enemys. nonetheless there is no excuse i agree. but now, we have a very influencial diaspora, our largest being in russia...russia cant afford to screw us over again.

 

- the french had forces in cilicia, but were expelled by turks. so were the greeks, so were the georgians and armenians and every other nonturk...whats your point? if your trying to blame our misfortune on countrys that have done nothing but good to us (like france) then youd be an ingrate. (no offence)

 

- usa never opposed sevres. in fact, wilson was a very strong supporter of our new country. ever wonder why it is sometimes referred to as "wilsonian armenia"?

 

this wont be resolved in 50 to 100 years. its now, 2007, this year will end it all. we cant stand this any longer.

 

so to answer your question...yes, we can trust them. before, we were a tiny landlocked nation with no infulence. now, we are one of the leading powerful diasporas (excluding the jews of course). at this point, USA or russia cant afford to piss us off.

 

cheers mate

Edited December 21, 2006 by Mihr

[Dave]

The reason why the French abandoned us in Cilicia is that it was in their interests to mend closer relations with the new leader of Turkey, Ataturk. The Western Powers tried to bring him to their side, because they were worried that he would eventually join the Soviet Union. Now, there's no Ataturk, no Soviet Union.

 

Edit: It was also Turkish lobbying that made the Soviet Union cede lands to Azeri Turks.

Edited December 22, 2006 by Dave

[Johannes]

Their policy is deal, accounts, numbers.
No more no less.
Open your eyes please, and stop to trust any other power out of ours.

[GevorgP]

Սիրելի հայրենակիցներ,

 

Մենք իհարկե եղբայրների եւ քույրերի պես միասնական պիտի գործենք մեր համազգային շահերը հետապնդելիս, հակադրվել կարող ենք միայն այլ հարցերում:

Ակնհայտ է որ, պետք է օգտագործել Սփյուռքի եւ ՀՀ-ի ողջ ներուժը ու Հայաստանի տնետեսական ու քաղաքական առաջընթացը ապահովել` գործերով, ոչ միայն խոսքերով:

 

Բայց նախօրոք մենք պետք է որոշենք թե որոնք են մեր համազգային գերակայությունները` դետալների, մանրամասնների մակարդակով:

 

1. Մենք պետք է ապագայում կարողանանք արտադրել` ինքնաթիռներ, ավտոմեքենաներ, հետագայում նաեւ տիեզրանավեր, շեշտը դնելով ռազմական արտադրանքի վրա` հիշենք որ մեր հայրենակիցները ՍՍՀՄ-ում առաջատար դիրքեր էին գրավում վերոհիշյալ ասպարեզներում: Հայաստանում էլ մենք անցյալում ունեինք բազմաթիվ գիտահետազոտական կազմակերպություններ որոնք աշխատում էին վերոհիշյալ թեմաների վրա: Այսպիսով եկեք օգտվենք մեր ազգի որակական հատկանիշներից: Համոզված եմ կգտնվեն մարդիկ որ կծիծաղեն այս խոսքերիս վրա, բայց մենք էլ, դեռեւս 15 տարի առաջ, լուրջ չէինք ընդունում ՀՀ-ի անկախության հնարավորությանը` չնայած շատ էինք երազում:

 

2. Մեր սփյուռքի մեծահարուստենրը եւ մյուս հայրենասներ հայրենակիցները պետք է աջակցեն այս գործին, հիշելով թե ինչ պատահեց ցեղասպանության ժամանակ մեր ազգակիցներին ու նրանց զավակներին` հարուստ թե աղքատ: Եվ որ ցանկացած երկրում նույնիսկ հարուստները` օրինակ ինչպես հրեաները, մի օր կհռչակվեն անցանկալի եվ բնիկներին կեղեքող` Գաղթականներ այստեղից բխող բոլոր հետեւանքներով: Եկենք հզորացենենք այն հողակտորը որտեղ ոչ ոք մեզ, Հայերիս, գաղթական չի կարող անվանել:

 

 

3. Վերոհիշյալը ապահովելու համար համար գլխավոր նախապայման է ուսուցիչենրի, պետական բուհերի դասախոսների եւ գիտաշխատողների աշխատավարձի բարձրացումը` չնայած այն արդեն բարձրացվել է, բայց դա դեռեւս քիչ է վերոհիշյալ նպատակին հասնելու համար: Մնացյալը` գիտական ներուժը, որը թերեւս ամենաթանկ գնահատվող բանն է զարգացած աշխարհում, մենք, փառք աստծո, դեռեւս ունենք մեր երկրում, պարզապես պետք է մնացածի արտագաղթը կանխարգելել:

 

 

4. Հայաստանում ապրող լավ եւ չտես մեծահարուստները պետք է հասկանան որ իշխանության հասնելու նպատակը այն չէ, որ իրենք կարողանան իրենց եկամուտները թաքցնել, եւ հարկերը չմուծելով ավելի հարստանալ, իսկ մուծված հարկերի հաշվին ապրող թոշակառուներին, ուսուցիչներին եւ այլոց հասցնել ծայրահեղ թշվառության` որից դեպի հեղափոխություն մեկ քայլ է, եթե դա երկար շարունակվի, չնայած Հայի անհատակ համբերատարությանը: Ըստ Ավետարանի` "Կա քար հավաքելու շամանակը եւ կա քար նետելու ժամանակը": ՀՀ մեծահարուստներ այնպես մի արեք որ, ապագա ընտրություններում, կեղծիքների ու կաշառքի միջոցով "հաղթելով" եւ ժողովրդին կրկին թողնելով մի կտոր հացի կարոտ` ժողովուրդը թուրքերի փոխարեն ձեր դեմ հանեք, ձեր միլլիարդներին մի քանի, ձեր համար ոչինչ չարժեցող, միլլիոններ ավելացնելու համար:

 

 

5. Իսկ ինչ վերաբերվում է Թուրքերից մեր մնացած հողերը հետ վերցնելուն, մենք կսպասենք ու երբ մեր օրը գա` այնժամ հույսը մասսամբ դնելով մեր տնտնեսական ու ռազմական ներուժի, եւ նաեւ բավական մեծ չափով այն դաշնակիցների վրա` որոնք եւս շահագրգռված կլինեն Թուրքիային անդամահատելու մեջ` տարբեր նպատակներով` բայց բարձրաձայն պայմանավորելով դա Եղեռնով: Սկայն սա չի նշանակում որ հիմա մենք չպետք է բարձրաձայն քննարկենք իրավիճակը` ընդհակառակը մենք դա պիտի անենք հաճախակի եւ հիմնավոր, այնպես որ մինչ ժամը հասնելը, աշխարհի բոլոր ծայրերում իմանան որ մենք ենք օրինական պահանջատերը` կանխարգելելու համար այլ "պահանջատերերի" մուտքը ասպարեզ:

 

Շնորհավոր բոլորիդ Նոր Տարին եւ Սուրբ Ծնունդը:

[GevorgP]

The Armenian genocide is almost worldwide recognized and in the coming year 2007 the process will be completed.

Now it is time to draw and discuss the borders of the Armenian territory within Turkey, that we claim as Armenian land, in order to prevent others to initiate it.

 

Almost for sure, in near future, under the auspices of the superpowers; USA and European Union will be created another independent Armenia-2. Because they would not be willing to join it to nowadays Armenia which is Russia's ally.

 

Under current circumstances; when USA almost created the Kurdish state in Iraq, that will become a reliable military base for the superpowers. They don't recognize Turkey, neither as their ally in the East nor its territorial integrity. Because the Turks are the main Pan Islamic ideology promoters that hurt USA, Europe and the rest of civilized world.

 

The growing instability in Iraq and collapse of USA projections on creating pro-American Iraqi government, within reasonable cost and timeframe, failed. Because America wanted do it without breaking it into three states, Kurdish Sunni and Shia; to comfort Turkey national interests.

 

This radically changed political situation, during recent years, in USA.

 

USA, using its military superiority, rapidly occupied the country and apparently it was the most easy; first part of their plan.

 

But now they are unable (mission impossible) accomplish the second part of their plan, and the end is apparent, that way USA will lose the war. Because, after occupying the country, when Americans are located inside, in large numbers, throughout Iraq, they can not use their only advantage; mass destruction weapons.

 

Meanwhile the Iraqi's have the most effective military means in that situation; the "working weapons", suicide bombers (PS. – Christians don't have); who can not be attacked by the US mass destruction weapons, used at the start, to win Sadam. In this situation the bombardiers, helicopters artillery, tanks etc. are useless, most of time.

 

USA voter is aware that the budget surplus under Clinton's presidency, now is changed to progressively growing deficit, and the dollar; the US most effective political and military tool is gradually becoming a second grade currency.

 

This is why democrats won the elections; voters want to return the USA army home, reduce the budget deficit, promote industrial growth and, at the same time, ensure that US strategic interests in the Middle East are not affected. Democrats are patriots of their country, therefore their primary goal is not to maintain Iraq's territorial integrity; just to accommodate Turkey's national interests at any cost to USA.

 

I guess, to achieve the goals above US may act this way:

 

Support Kurds to create a loyal to US Kurdish state that will promote USA interests in the Middle East. Relocate military bases from Turkey to Kurdistan, and then return the army home. Preliminarily, of cause, ensuring that; most of the Iraqi oil reserves are controlled by Kurds.

 

Then expel Turkey form NATO, because USA will have several opportunities for locating military bases in the region; Kurdistan, Georgia and perhaps in the Sunni state.

 

Because in case of Kurdistan-Turkey confrontation, in this new situation, USA will be enforced to support Kurds. Therefore to justify the action above and ensure next steps, USA congress, in advance, needs to pass the bill; on the Armenian Genocide. Which, of cause, will serve as a legal and justifiable argument for the future steps.

Letting (not preventing) Kurds and others break it down for achieving independence and getting free from Turkey oppression. And in doing this America will enjoy, almost world wide support; because the action will help the justice to prevail.

 

Regards,

 

GevorgP

Edited January 13, 2007 by GevorgP

[GevorgP]

Turkey is attempting to disrupt Genocide recognition process.

 

Several years ago Turkey, perhaps, through establishing diplomatic relations with Armenia, could slow down the genocide recognition process. In past they had the best "know-how" and "new" technologies in the diplomatic and population reproduction "Industries". Although the "products" have not been of decent quality, they succeeded, at occupying countries, using the "competitive advantages".

 

At that point they thought Turkey can prevent Genocide recognition process even without easing down, a little bit, the pressure exerted on RoA. The hatred against Armenians prevented them to set the "diplomatic trap" for RoA; which could assist them to declare that the Genocide issue is a Turkey – Armenia bilateral problem and only the two countries should discuss and "settle" it during coming "centuries". And it could enable US president Bush to prevent the Genocide recognition by USA using the "strong" argument against the US democrats, who does not uphold Turkey strategic interests at any cost to USA.

 

Now, this is probably first time, Turkey suffered a prominent crackdown in diplomatic area and therefore needs to change the planned tactics.

 

Therefore they are going quickly establish diplomatic or some other contacts with RoA, to prevent the impending danger of the Genocide recognition by USA.

 

This week Armenian mass media is repeatedly showing interviews of the Turkish and Armenian representatives: businessman and political analysts. Who, urged by US Republicans, are talking about quickly opening Turkey-Armenian border, establishing joint trade zones and therefore forming a Turkish-Armenian state commission to organize it.

 

Later on they will claim that the Genocide issue should be discussed by the commission, even if it was not, originally, included in the commission's agenda. So Turks need to have the commission to be formed and functioning before the bill is accepted by USA.

 

This is why RoA must do its best to reject establishing any Armenia-Turkey joint commission, until the Genocide bill is accepted by USA.

 

Dear Forum Members,

What do you think about this?

 

Regards,

 

GevorgP

[Takoush]

Turkey is attempting to disrupt Genocide recognition process.

 

Several years ago Turkey, perhaps, through establishing diplomatic relations with Armenia, could slow down the genocide recognition process. In past they had the best "know-how" and "new" technologies in the diplomatic and population reproduction "Industries". Although the "products" have not been of decent quality, they succeeded, at occupying countries, using the "competitive advantages".

 

At that point they thought Turkey can prevent Genocide recognition process even without easing down, a little bit, the pressure exerted on RoA. The hatred against Armenians prevented them to set the "diplomatic trap" for RoA; which could assist them to declare that the Genocide issue is a Turkey – Armenia bilateral problem and only the two countries should discuss and "settle" it during coming "centuries". And it could enable US president Bush to prevent the Genocide recognition by USA using the "strong" argument against the US democrats, who does not uphold Turkey strategic interests at any cost to USA.

 

Now, this is probably first time, Turkey suffered a prominent crackdown in diplomatic area and therefore needs to change the planned tactics.

 

Therefore they are going quickly establish diplomatic or some other contacts with RoA, to prevent the impending danger of the Genocide recognition by USA.

 

This week Armenian mass media is repeatedly showing interviews of the Turkish and Armenian representatives: businessman and political analysts. Who, urged by US Republicans, are talking about quickly opening Turkey-Armenian border, establishing joint trade zones and therefore forming a Turkish-Armenian state commission to organize it.

 

Later on they will claim that the Genocide issue should be discussed by the commission, even if it was not, originally, included in the commission's agenda. So Turks need to have the commission to be formed and functioning before the bill is accepted by USA.

 

This is why RoA must do its best to reject establishing any Armenia-Turkey joint commission, until the Genocide bill is accepted by USA.

 

Dear Forum Members,

What do you think about this?

 

Regards,

 

GevorgP

Dear GevorgP:

 

I am in full agreement to what you put out above. YES RoA must indeed do its best to reject establishing any Armenia-Turkey joint commision, until the Genocide bill is accepted by U.S.A. (AGREED). The GENOCIDE bill must be accepted by U.S.A. first and utmost. Good thinking on your part.

 

Anahid

Edited January 17, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi

[Takoush]

Dear GevorgP:

 

I will make a motion or a proposal if you will to draw/write a petition form and have all the Forum members sign that petition and have it forwarded to the office of the President of the Republic of Armenia.

 

Thank you.

 

Anahid

[GevorgP]

Dear GevorgP:

 

I will make a motion or a proposal if you will to draw/write a petition form and have all the Forum members sign that petition and have it forwarded to the office of the President of the Republic of Armenia.

 

Dear Anahid,

 

Thanks for your support. I'll be glad, if you are ready to get the forum member signatures. It is very good idea, because it will get most of us think about that and suggest some other solutions too. Although I doubt a little bit, that most of members will sign it, because for a while nobody is much interested about the issue. As refers to drafting the petition I'll do it with pleasure, although I think that it would be better if you draft it; the idea is clear for us.

 

By the way we have the RoA president website, you know. Its URL is: www.president.am, it could be sent using their contact email address.

 

With best regards,

 

GevorgP

Edited January 18, 2007 by GevorgP

[ED]

Dear Anahid,

 

Thanks for your support. I'll be glad, if you are ready to get the forum member signatures. It is very good idea, because it will get most of us think about that and suggest some other solutions too. Although I doubt a little bit, that most of members will sign it, because for a while nobody is much interested about the issue. As refers to drafting the petition I'll do it with pleasure, although I think that it would be better if you draft it; the idea is clear for us.

 

By the way we have the RoA president website, you know. Its URL is: www.president.am, it could be sent using their contact email address.

 

With best regards,

 

GevorgP

 

 

Dear GevorgP

 

this is a great Idea and I'm sure many members in this forum would be happy to sign it

but I dont think anybody in this forum should draft a resolution,

shouldent the draft resolution be drawn formaly by one if not all of the organizations in the USA?

 

your thoughts

 

[GevorgP]

 

Dear GevorgP

 

this is a great Idea and I'm sure many members in this forum would be happy to sign it

but I dont think anybody in this forum should draft a resolution,

shouldent the draft resolution be drawn formaly by one if not all of the organizations in the USA?

 

your thoughts

 

Dear Edward,

 

Very good suggestion! I agree. It will be the best choice. Thanks.

 

GevorgP

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2007 by GevorgP

[Takoush]

Dear GevorgP

 

this is a great Idea and I'm sure many members in this forum would be happy to sign it

but I dont think anybody in this forum should draft a resolution,

shouldent the draft resolution be drawn formaly by one if not all of the organizations in the USA?

 

your thoughts

I second Ed's thoughts.

[GevorgP]

Never believe that Turks are sincere in their condolences on Hrant Dink's murder. It is just a Show, for the European audience.

 

Are you surprised watching on TV people marching and chanting that they all are "Hrant Dink"? Taking into account that majority of meeting participant are the Turks, one can think that the people, who consider them barbarians, are wrong and that Turkey, in "fact", is a "democratic" country.

 

Naive Europeans and others, may be shocked by the humanistic behavior demonstrated by Turks; Armenians taking part in the meetings are minority. Because in past Turks managed to "resolve" the Armenian question.

 

The Europeans don't know what the mullahs called the Turkish believers to do, throughout the country's mosques, the day before.

 

You know that Islamic countries, in fact are ruled by their religious leaders. The politicians and religious leaders are coordinating their activities, while deciding how the major problems should be addressed, at any critical situation for the country.

 

So the day before, the mass meetings took place in Turkey, for sure, the mullahs throughout the country called the believers to organize mass meetings condemning Hrant Dink's murder and chanting "we all are Dink, we are Armenians" because it is needed to improve Turkey's International image.

 

I've seen by TV the meetings where some people, I guess mullahs, next to the columns of the meeting participants coordinated their behavior, controlling people.

 

Tomorrow the same people, if called by their leaders, will kill all remaining Armenians and others. The order will be carried out without any hesitation; and with the same diligence, as chanting "we all are Hrant Dink".

 

Muslim religion and democracy are not compatible; therefore one can never expect, that in near future Turkey will share the European democratic values.

 

I'm confident, that the "Mass Meetings" are "shows", "performances" directed by Turkey rulers for the European audience and the rest of civilized world.

 

If Turkey would manage to improve, a little bit, its bad image, through the "shows" above and other PR activities, and "ensure" the world that they are becoming democrats; then, in future, they will turn to their natural "bloody" theatrical, dramatic performances.

 

Don't forget that in past Ataturk managed to ensure Lenin that Turkey will become a communist country.

 

GevorgP

Edited January 22, 2007 by GevorgP

[gmd]

Never believe that Turks are sincere in their condolences on Hrant Dink's murder. It is just a Show, for the European audience.

 

Are you surprised watching on TV people marching and chanting that they all are "Hrant Dink"? Taking into account that majority of meeting participant are the Turks, one can think that the people, who consider them barbarians, are wrong and that Turkey, in "fact", is a "democratic" country.

 

Naive Europeans and others, may be shocked by the humanistic behavior demonstrated by Turks; Armenians taking part in the meetings are minority. Because in past Turks managed to "resolve" the Armenian question.

 

The Europeans don't know what the mullahs called the Turkish believers to do, throughout the country's mosques, the day before.

 

You know that Islamic countries, in fact are ruled by their religious leaders. The politicians and religious leaders are coordinating their activities, while deciding how the major problems should be addressed, at any critical situation for the country.

 

So the day before, the mass meetings took place in Turkey, for sure, the mullahs throughout the country called the believers to organize mass meetings condemning Hrant Dink's murder and chanting "we all are Dink, we are Armenians" because it is needed to improve Turkey's International image.

 

I've seen by TV the meetings where some people, I guess mullahs, next to the columns of the meeting participants coordinated their behavior, controlling people.

 

Tomorrow the same people, if called by their leaders, will kill all remaining Armenians and others. The order will be carried out without any hesitation; and with the same diligence, as chanting "we all are Hrant Dink".

 

Muslim religion and democracy are not compatible; therefore one can never expect, that in near future Turkey will share the European democratic values.

 

I'm confident, that the "Mass Meetings" are "shows", "performances" directed by Turkey rulers for the European audience and the rest of civilized world.

 

If Turkey would manage to improve, a little bit, its bad image, through the "shows" above and other PR activities, and "ensure" the world that they are becoming democrats; then, in future, they will turn to their natural "bloody" theatrical, dramatic performances.

 

Don't forget that in past Ataturk managed to ensure Lenin that Turkey will become a communist country.

 

GevorgP

mullahs say fight they fight, our priests in the past said don't fight and we didn't. i see no moral superiority in either form of religous control. why are you wasting your time bashing islam? if islam is an armenians enemy then why haven't all the armenians living in muslim countries packed up and moved back to armenia (or any other wester/christian country)?

 

[Takoush]

mullahs say fight they fight, our priests in the past said don't fight and we didn't. i see no moral superiority in either form of religous control. why are you wasting your time bashing islam? if islam is an armenians enemy then why haven't all the armenians living in muslim countries packed up and moved back to armenia (or any other wester/christian country)?

gmd:

 

Relax. Our friend Gevorg is mostly talking about the Hrand Dink murder by the Turks. He is mostly referring about the Turks. Read between the lines and about what just happened to our good man Hrant Dink. The Turks murdered Hrant to divert the US's attention from passing the Genocide Bill. They are doing anything to divert and delay the Genocide Bill's process. Can't you see? They murdered poor Hrant.

 

Gevorg is letting us know the plot that the bloody Turks did before they murdered Hrant Dink.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi

[zurderer]

I think this is not a forum, this is intelligent service of ROA.

 

Afterall, all of our armenian forumers are intelligent officers.

[Error 404]

How about you zureder who is signing your paychecks? Turkish Government?

 

Wanna make more? Sign up with armenian intelligence and you will be paid more for being a double agent.

 

...bond

...zurderer bond

Edited January 23, 2007 by Error 404

[zurderer]

Okey. Money is money. It is not Turkish or armenian.

 

what should I say?

 

Hmm, Turks are barbarians, best Turks is death Turk. They are unhumans. They should go mongolia.

 

You know what, It is not much difficult to become armenian.

 

 

 

[Takoush]

 

You know what, It is not much difficult to become armenian.

It is, it is difficult for you, you Turkish Zurderer to become Armenian. After all, Armenians are pro in chess and you Turks are not.

 

 

 

 

 

[zurderer]

want to play a chess game?

[Takoush]

want to play a chess game?

I'll give my place to one of our respective member's young son who is a pro in chess. I'll pass it onto him to play with you.

 

 

 

 

 

[Error 404]

We already do zurderer It's rematch...

[DominO123]

Okey. Money is money. It is not Turkish or armenian.

 

what should I say?

 

Hmm, Turks are barbarians, best Turks is death Turk. They are unhumans. They should go mongolia.

 

You know what, It is not much difficult to become armenian.

 

I don't know why, but I like you, you sure aren't a usual forumer.

 

[Armenak]

He's here to put us Armenians on check.

[phantom]

Anyone who thinks our salvation lies in the hands of a non-Armenian power has not read up on our history. I'm not exactly sure when this diseased mentality of reliance injected itself into our genetic code, but it is the sole reason why we are a small and dependent nation.

 

I do not advocate any future wars or battles with Turkey, but if tiny Armenia is going to survive and thrive, we Armenians the world over have to cure our reliance disease. Armenia must become a military power within the next 25 years. It must have a defense industry of its own. Today it has to beg for a few guns from the likes of Serbia. Why aren't the so-called Armenian industrialists and multi-millionaires in Armenia establishing factories to build defense weapons and fighter jets, rather than building cafes? Look at Israel for proof that a small nation can be a powerful one. There is no other way, if we are ever going to rid ourselves of reliance on others. We need to think big and do it! Nothing's impossible. If any nation has the brain-power, it's ours; all we need is the imagination and the will to do it. And again, I'm not saying that this is necessary so we can attack Turkey and take back our historical lands; I'm simply saying this is necessary in order simply to forever secure what we already have.