Turkey Will Be Split Apart As Iraq Is.

[GevorgP]

The Armenian genocide is almost worldwide recognized and in the coming year 2007 the process will be completed.

 

Now it is time to draw and discuss the borders of the Armenian territory within Turkey, that we claim as Armenian land, in order to prevent others to initiate it.

 

Almost for sure, in near future, under the auspices of the superpowers; USA and European Union will be created another independent Armenia-2. Because they would not be willing to join it to nowadays Armenia which is Russia’s ally.

 

Under current circumstances; when USA almost created the Kurdish state in Iraq, that will become a reliable military base for the superpowers. They don’t recognize Turkey, neither as their ally in the East nor its territorial integrity. Because the Turks are the main Pan Islamic ideology promoters that hurt USA, Europe and the rest of civilized world.

 

Regards,

 

GevorgP

[Dave]

I don't think that they'd be able to create a second Armenia, because those lands are void of Armenians and because not a lot of Diaspora Armenians would be willing to move back. In fact, we won't be able to get it freely, especially if, as you said, we aren't America's allies despite all the lobbies.

 

When there is such chaos (Kurdistan or other divisions) in Eastern Anatolia, Armenia has to move to take over control by itself, with support of Russia or Iran if there is the need.

 

We tend to forget that there are Islamicized Armenians and other Armenian muslims, the Hamshentsis. Armenian consciousness should be spread within their communities.

[zurderer]

so what will you do kurds, who is more populous than your roa?

 

I should also add, It is you who is calling them muslim armenians. They refuse it.

[irlandahay]

you want to go discuss something with turkey? go ahead.

i know for one that you cant "discuss" or make "compromises" with this nation only because such words do not exist in their dictionnary.

 

its a nice idea and all, but quite francly we cant run our small patch of land...what are we going to do with all the rest? and, there already is no one living there, and what are you going to do about the 20 000 000 or so kurds and turks living there? i refuse to see ROA turn into the "armenian islamic republic".

 

what i would settle for, is reperation money, so we can fix our nation up, and the land surrounding ararat. after all it is our nationnal symbol. maybe even land stretching towards the sea, so we can work on trade with europe. also, if the turks are feeling generous, we could also take our three great capitals, Van, Ani, and dikranagert...assuming they are not destroyed yet. and for the lands we didnt take back, let there be some kind of enscription saying that these were not left behind by some indigenous tribe but by the armenians, who built upon their own ancestral homelands.

 

but we forget that turks are mongols, who are hungry to conquer new lands. obviously giving any up is out of the question...

[Dave]

I should also add, It is you who is calling them muslim armenians. They refuse it.

 

That's why I said we should spread consciousness.

[irlandahay]

That's why I said we should spread consciousness.

 

what do you mean?

[zurderer]

That's why I said we should spread consciousness.

 

You have no chance. Why should they accept becoming armenian? They have no benefit from it and they have a lot to loss.

 

That is not a realistic aim.

 

we could also take our three great capitals, Van, Ani, and dikranagert...assuming they are not destroyed yet.

 

I think this three city also have more people than ROA. do you realy want so much big minority? Most probably, just after 100 year, Yerevan would be a kurdish city.

 

Even now, Istanbul is a half kurdish city with more than 3 million kurd.

[irlandahay]

You have no chance. Why should they accept becoming armenian? They have no benefit from it and they have a lot to loss.

 

That is not a realistic aim.

 

 

 

I think this three city also have more people than ROA. do you realy want so much big minority? Most probably, just after 100 year, Yerevan would be a kurdish city.

 

Even now, Istanbul is a half kurdish city with more than 3 million kurd.

 

what are you talking about? they dont have anything to lose from becoming true to who they really are.

but still, itl be hard to convince them.

 

jeeeeez, listen mate, only 2 percent of armenia is kurdish. now, the armenian population is growing, the kurds have now an autonomous region in northern iraq. less kurds, more armenians. in 100 years, armenia will be a power again, in 100 years, armenia will have liberated its stolen lands.

as for van, ani, and dikranagert, i dont think turks will want to live under armenian rule, it would be a disgrace to their "oh so proud, warrior race". frankly, tthats fine with me, i dont want turks poisonning our lands anymore then they already have. but, we can forcibly remove them. either way we will have our lands back.

but as i said before, the best thing would be ararat and the lands surrounding it, its not very populated there anyway.

[zurderer]

what are you talking about? they dont have anything to lose from becoming true to who they really are.

but still, itl be hard to convince them.

 

Even I dislike it, I should accept becoming armenian is not a good thing at Turkey. So They wont say, We are armenians. By the way, I think If you care for people who was armenian, but who is not armenian, You can find millions between kurds.

 

jeeeeez, listen mate, only 2 percent of armenia is kurdish. now, the armenian population is growing, the kurds have now an autonomous region in northern iraq. less kurds, more armenians. in 100 years, armenia will be a power again, in 100 years, armenia will have liberated its stolen lands.

 

I dont know, what are you talking but, I am sure It has no relation with reality. Population of armenians were decreasing at ROA, and population of kurdish people are quicly increasing.

as for van, ani, and dikranagert, i dont think turks will want to live under armenian rule, it would be a disgrace to their "oh so proud, warrior race". frankly, tthats fine with me, i dont want turks poisonning our lands anymore then they already have. but, we can forcibly remove them. either way we will have our lands back.

 

You mean kurds? well, where do you forcibly remove them? and how many people do you aiming to remove?

 

but as i said before, the best thing would be ararat and the lands surrounding it, its not very populated there anyway.

 

It looks like this is a good aim, not something Turkey will give, but at least you can take this.(If you would haveluck, power, ext ext)

Edited December 2, 2006 by zurderer

[GevorgP]

Let’s put down a preliminary sketch of future developments on creation of Armenia-2 (Western Armenia).

 

 

First of all, the superpowers according to the international law will develop a legal document on restoring the rights of population of Armenian decent; who managed to escape the Genocide and now are leaving abroad.

 

 

It may look like:

 

 

1) Western Armenia should join EU immediately, in order to ensure full protection of the civil rights and democracy according to EU prevailing standards, regardless of race and creed of the people de facto living there.

 

2) Condemnation of the Genocide and taking back the Western Armenia from Turkey would not affect in any way the interests of the population: Kurds, Armenian’s converted to Islam, Turks and people of other nationalities. It would be very beneficial for them because: they would not any more undergo repressions and discrimination carried out by Turks against population of other Religions.

 

3) Armenians will be entitled to some small privileges, as compensation.

 

a) Armenians who escaped the Genocide and now are leaving abroad will be given priority right to get state owned (not private) land free of charge.

 

Some of not populated areas will be joined to RoA.

 

c) RoA will be given right to use Black See ports free of charge and transportation through Armenia-2 would not be taxed for RoA citizens.

 

d) And some reasonable percentage of state budget should be allocated as compensation to the Armenians who escaped the Genocide.

 

 

Thus creation of the new Armenian state would not harm in any way the people currently populating the Western Armenia.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Gevorg

 

[irlandahay]

wishful thinking...

[Dave]

As I said in that other thread, we have a legal backing, the Sèvres treaty.

[irlandahay]

As I said in that other thread, we have a legal backing, the Sèvres treaty.

 

this leagal abcking as nullified by lausanne.

 

and ieven so..who does care about us? tell me dave? wich government is willing to bring up a 90 year old document splitting a world power in half? harper is brave but not to that extent...

[Dave]

The thing is that Armenians have never recognized the Lausanne treaty and unlike Sèvres, they weren't there when it was signed. When we'll have the opportunity, as in when the geopolitical situation is advantageous to us, and when Turkey is weak enough, we can easily bring back the Sèvres treaty. Edited December 6, 2006 by Dave

[zurderer]

USA also did not signed the Lausanne treaty but without a world war, you have not much chance to take eastern anatolia, and I am not sure, If a world war happen, ROA will survive.

[GevorgP]

We are not Nostradamus to predict future, for centuries, without having much factual material and strong arguments.

 

 

But we are well aware of the following facts that will allow us to make some simple predictions: France is one of the cradles of World civilization and democracy, as well as an influential player in geopolitical arena. I appreciate France actions taken regarding Armenian Genocide, but I assume that the moves made by France on Armenian Genocide and some planned future secret actions against Turkey are agreed with some other major World political arena players. The facts that lead to the “prediction” are the followings:

 

 

1) USA and Turkey opposition on foundation of Kurdish state in Iraq, that will become USA’s most loyal puppet proponent in the East, and therefore USA will be enforced to support them and thus: confront Turkey.

 

2) During the confrontation the Armenian Genocide issue will be used as a legal and justifiable argument/excuse to break down Turkey with EU support.

 

3) It eventually will result in expelling Turkey form NATO, because now it has several opportunities for locating military bases in the region.

 

4) EU clash with Turkey on Cyprus and Armenian Genocide issues and that its most influential members; France and Germany already declared that they are going to Suspend the Turkey negotiations with EU on future membership. History knows much bigger barbarian acts carried out by Turkey that have been overlooked by USA and Europe, because at that time they had neither resources nor much need to punish.

 

5) Now France is ready to pass the bill against the barbarians who reject the Armenian Genocide and therefore suffers losses on supplying Turkey with military equipment costing milliards of dollars. Do they suffer the losses: only because they like Armenians? Or, in addition, there is another geopolitical interest, I guess both and it is agreed with USA and other EU major powers.

 

[Error 404]

Zurderer if the world war happens noone is going to survive. Not ieven turks, roaches probably not even bacterias. Have you heard about nuclear winter?

 

It will solve conflicts of all types and will turn our green planet to the grey one...

[Dave]

USA also did not signed the Lausanne treaty

 

Of course, but the US doesn't have territorial claims over Turkey.

Edited December 6, 2006 by Dave

[zurderer]

It will solve conflicts of all types and will turn our green planet to the grey one...

 

Most probably, coast of blacksea still will have some green. I think noone can use nuke, specially at a world war. Humans are not so mad.

 

Of course, but the US doesn't have territorial claims over Turkey.

 

No I am just trying to say that USA can help ROA. Of course If she benefit from it.

[GevorgP]

Հողը սուրբ է — շիրիմն է մեր նախնյաց,

 

Հողն է պահում օրօրոցը մեր մանկաց,

 

Հողը զ•ոն սաղավարտ է պահապան,

 

Դրանից վեր չկա ոչ մի, ոչ մի բան:

 

 

 

Հողն է ծնում հողն է պահում ազ•երին,

 

Հողն է թաղում իրեն լքած ցեղերին,

 

Հողը սուրբ է — մատուռն է մեր ուխտի,

 

Հողը սուրբ է — փարոսն է պանդուխտի:

 

 

 

Հերոսների արյան •ինն է մեր հողը

 

Այդ արյունից էլ ան•ին է մեր հողը

 

Կայքից վեր է, կյանքից վեր է մեր հողը

 

Նախնյաց նվեր — պատվեր է մեր հողը:

[GevorgP]

Ձօն Հայաստանի

 

 

 

Հողը սուրբ է, դա շիրիմն է մեր նախնյաց,

Հողն է պահում օրօրոցը հայ մանկաց,

Հողը զգոն սաղավարտ է պահապան,

Դրանից վեր չկա ոչ մի, ոչ մի բան:

 

 

 

Հողն է ծնում հողն է պահում ազգերին,

Հողն է թաղում հող չպաշտող ցեղերին,

Հողը սուրբ է՝ եւ մատուռն է մեր ուխտի,

Հողը սուրբ է ու փարոսն է պանդուխտի:

 

 

 

Հերոսների արյան գինն է մեր հողը

Այդ արյունից էլ անգին է մեր հողը

Կայքից վեր է, կյանքից վեր է մեր հողը

Նախնյաց նվեր եւ պատվեր է մեր հողը:

[GevorgP]

Ձօն Edited December 19, 2006 by GevorgP

[Mihr]

Nice discussion, but before invoking the good intentions of Europe and USA regarding our cause, we should ask ourselves this question.

 

Can we really trust any power regarding Western Armenia?

 

Russia has given our territories to Azerbaidjan, Georgia and had a treaty with Turkey giving remaining western Armenia. territories lost. massacres.

 

France encouraged us to settle in Cilicia, and then left us disarmed to the turkish army. massacres.

 

USA opposed the Traité de Sèvres, after promising us a new land.

 

Can we trust them?

 

Yet if this problem is resolved in 50 or 100 years, there will be China as a superpower. Maybe India will be in the leading world powers. Europe and USA will be weaker. So we have to think about it also.

[Dave]

France, Russia, and other European nations might have betrayed us back then, but we were simply an ethnic group; we couldn't arrange treaties or reach commercial agreements. Now, the Western powers need to behave by taking in consideration that we're a sovereign state, equal in rights to them. Edited December 21, 2006 by Dave

[irlandahay]

Nice discussion, but before invoking the good intentions of Europe and USA regarding our cause, we should ask ourselves this question.

 

Can we really trust any power regarding Western Armenia?

 

Russia has given our territories to Azerbaidjan, Georgia and had a treaty with Turkey giving remaining western Armenia. territories lost. massacres.

 

France encouraged us to settle in Cilicia, and then left us disarmed to the turkish army. massacres.

 

USA opposed the Traité de Sèvres, after promising us a new land.

 

Can we trust them?

 

Yet if this problem is resolved in 50 or 100 years, there will be China as a superpower. Maybe India will be in the leading world powers. Europe and USA will be weaker. So we have to think about it also.

 

interesting opinion.

but im going to have to correct you there.

 

- russia has given our territories because the entire world has turned its back on it, it cant afford to make new enemys. nonetheless there is no excuse i agree. but now, we have a very influencial diaspora, our largest being in russia...russia cant afford to screw us over again.

 

- the french had forces in cilicia, but were expelled by turks. so were the greeks, so were the georgians and armenians and every other nonturk...whats your point? if your trying to blame our misfortune on countrys that have done nothing but good to us (like france) then youd be an ingrate. (no offence)

 

- usa never opposed sevres. in fact, wilson was a very strong supporter of our new country. ever wonder why it is sometimes referred to as "wilsonian armenia"?

 

this wont be resolved in 50 to 100 years. its now, 2007, this year will end it all. we cant stand this any longer.

 

so to answer your question...yes, we can trust them. before, we were a tiny landlocked nation with no infulence. now, we are one of the leading powerful diasporas (excluding the jews of course). at this point, USA or russia cant afford to piss us off.

 

cheers mate