Turkey Will Be Split Apart As Iraq Is.

[zurderer]

I'll give my place to one of our respective member's young son who is a pro in chess. I'll pass it onto him to play with you

 

Err. You said armenians are pro at chess. It looks like you are not armenian too.

 

So If you win game, You are armenian. If I win the game I am armenian. Deal? Than I can accuse you with becoming an uglu orc!!

 

are you afraid turkish turkey? (I should add I am bluffing. You know we turks are not good at anything

but bluffing.

 

I don't know why, but I like you, you sure aren't a usual forumer.

 

I am a expert forumer.(After all I gain money from this job.) Thanks anyway.

 

 

 

 

By the way, Mongols should go to mongolia!!!(Infact mongols live at mongolia.)

 

He's here to put us Armenians on check.

 

It is sad, we dont know chess, but well.

 

Riding horse, fighting with warriors, pillaging towns, stealing and killing. dont you think these are more interesting than chess?

 

Edited January 24, 2007 by zurderer

[gmd]

Anyone who thinks our salvation lies in the hands of a non-Armenian power has not read up on our history. I'm not exactly sure when this diseased mentality of reliance injected itself into our genetic code, but it is the sole reason why we are a small and dependent nation.

 

I do not advocate any future wars or battles with Turkey, but if tiny Armenia is going to survive and thrive, we Armenians the world over have to cure our reliance disease. Armenia must become a military power within the next 25 years. It must have a defense industry of its own. Today it has to beg for a few guns from the likes of Serbia. Why aren't the so-called Armenian industrialists and multi-millionaires in Armenia establishing factories to build defense weapons and fighter jets, rather than building cafes? Look at Israel for proof that a small nation can be a powerful one. There is no other way, if we are ever going to rid ourselves of reliance on others. We need to think big and do it! Nothing's impossible. If any nation has the brain-power, it's ours; all we need is the imagination and the will to do it. And again, I'm not saying that this is necessary so we can attack Turkey and take back our historical lands; I'm simply saying this is necessary in order simply to forever secure what we already have.

 

This is an excellent point. I have often wondered why Armenians are not actively working on this. During Soviet years there were many Armenians involved in the Soviet defense industry. Where did they all go?

[DominO123]

Anyone who thinks our salvation lies in the hands of a non-Armenian power has not read up on our history. I'm not exactly sure when this diseased mentality of reliance injected itself into our genetic code, but it is the sole reason why we are a small and dependent nation.

 

I do not advocate any future wars or battles with Turkey, but if tiny Armenia is going to survive and thrive, we Armenians the world over have to cure our reliance disease. Armenia must become a military power within the next 25 years. It must have a defense industry of its own. Today it has to beg for a few guns from the likes of Serbia. Why aren't the so-called Armenian industrialists and multi-millionaires in Armenia establishing factories to build defense weapons and fighter jets, rather than building cafes? Look at Israel for proof that a small nation can be a powerful one. There is no other way, if we are ever going to rid ourselves of reliance on others. We need to think big and do it! Nothing's impossible. If any nation has the brain-power, it's ours; all we need is the imagination and the will to do it. And again, I'm not saying that this is necessary so we can attack Turkey and take back our historical lands; I'm simply saying this is necessary in order simply to forever secure what we already have.

 

Phantom, I think you are oversimplifying the situation.

 

It doesn't take only brain power, it takes financing, which obviously Armenia does not have. It takes to maintain this brain power, it takes paying them, it takes the ressources, (material) etc. None Armenia can afford.

 

It would actually cost in Armenia's situation more to build them then buy them. Israel does have some factories, but most of what they have are imported technology on tens of billions of dollars of contracts and even 'gifts.'

 

Armenia will for at least the next 15 years be able to fight Azerbaijan, because not only financing count. National IQ is a very determinent factor. Lynch documented that higher the national IQ, more predictable is the end result of a war, unless one side is outnumbered by few folds(it took the rest of the West to win over Germany in WWII). 3 million vs 8 million still gives an advantages when there is at least 5 IQ point in favior of one side. Military strategies are very important, and there is a colleration between strategy and national IQ. As long as Armenia's national IQ is kept to at least 5 points above Azerbaijani's, and the army is financed, Armenia is safe, as long as Turkey or another country does start activally involved there.

[Error 404]

I somewhat agree and disagree with phantom and quebecer. It takes tremendious amount of efforts and assets to create arms industry anywhere. Also you will need a lot of raw resources which we don't have. Armenia doesn't have finances too to create arms industry. But on the other hand it is VERY profitable business I mean international arms sales.

 

The brainpower is there. There are a lot of talented engineers in Armenia. With minor training they can start working on creating parts for sophisticated arms and satelite systems. I mean making key parts for military and space. Those could be chips, GPS devices, radar technology which could be bought and integrated by other well known international manufacturers. These devices don't need steel and oil to produce. They are also very expensive and in demand everywhere. It could be also used for Armenia too.

 

Since there is no demand for their skills a lot of talented guys are leaving the country and immigrating to foreign countries and investing their efforts on those countries. It is hard to blame them.

 

It will come phantom, the time will come when they will prefer to stay and work in homeland but now hard life dictates their steps.

[zurderer]

Instead of thinking about arm industry, you should think about armenians out side of ROA. If you find a way to take them ROA, Your country will become more powerful..

 

Small countries may become powerful too but It is rare. Also dont forget USA help to israel.

 

I think ten million armenian can do better than two million armenians. Time for land is passed. Now, we are at the times of people and production.

 

[ED]

Just recently Armenia has began advertising in Tourism on CNN and major networks, I have been calling for such a move, sure enough Tourism has picked up and still as a result of ads campaign it will grow.

 

key is the absence on instability and this is also the main concern of The Armenian Government, with little natural resources, Armenian Highlands, Tourism, became of the her key commodity in economic sector.

 

Same can be said about High tech industry, ROA has this in mind and I think in very near future you'll start see major investments in this sector of the economy by both foreign investors and officials at the ROA.

 

#1 is peace

# Guaranty of stability

# major crack down on corruption

# Investment in advanced education among young

# Active public relations campaign.

 

 

Just like Ireland did not to long ago

 

[GevorgP]

 

Err. You said armenians are pro at chess. It looks like you are not armenian too.

 

So If you win game, You are armenian. If I win the game I am armenian. Deal?

Riding horse, fighting with warriors, pillaging towns, stealing and killing. dont you think these are more interesting than chess?

 

 

Zurderer neither you, nor your grandparents and grandchessmasters never won a single alive Armenian in chess, you know. Thus forget about your RoA citizenship, for a while. But if you are young don't lose the hope.

 

Nevertheless there is another option; if you'll agree to give back Western Armenia willingly, in the same year, it will become World Chess Olympiad Champion.

 

And you can tell the world that Former "Turkey" is the World Champion.

Deal?

Edited January 25, 2007 by GevorgP

[Error 404]

Instead of thinking about arm industry, you should think about armenians out side of ROA. If you find a way to take them ROA, Your country will become more powerful..

 

Small countries may become powerful too but It is rare. Also dont forget USA help to israel.

 

I think ten million armenian can do better than two million armenians. Time for land is passed. Now, we are at the times of people and production.

 

Zureder 10 million armenians in a small country like armenia? Are you kidding me? There will be no place to sit. Everybody will be on their feets to fit inside the borders of armenia.

 

But I am sure our neighbours, particularly turkey, will notice that and considering their hospitality and big and open hearts they will offer us some parts of their(our historical) lands so everybody can live comfortable and happy forever.

 

How about that zurderer?

[irlandahay]

 

Just like Ireland did not to long ago

 

 

and as a result...richest european country economically speaking.

[Takoush]

Just recently Armenia has began advertising in Tourism on CNN and major networks, I have been calling for such a move, sure enough Tourism has picked up and still as a result of ads campaign it will grow.

 

key is the absence on instability and this is also the main concern of The Armenian Government, with little natural resources, Armenian Highlands, Tourism, became of the her key commodity in economic sector.

 

Same can be said about High tech industry, ROA has this in mind and I think in very near future you'll start see major investments in this sector of the economy by both foreign investors and officials at the ROA.

 

#1 is peace

# Guaranty of stability

# major crack down on corruption

# Investment in advanced education among young

# Active public relations campaign.

Just like Ireland did not to long ago

Sounds good to me Ed jan, its sounds good indeed!!!!!!

 

Very good sequence of a plan. And if Ireland's economy is very rich than better reasons to follow this plan of yours.

 

 

[GevorgP]

Just recently Armenia has began advertising in Tourism on CNN and major networks, I have been calling for such a move, sure enough Tourism has picked up and still as a result of ads campaign it will grow.

 

key is the absence on instability and this is also the main concern of The Armenian Government, with little natural resources, Armenian Highlands, Tourism, became of the her key commodity in economic sector.

 

Same can be said about High tech industry, ROA has this in mind and I think in very near future you'll start see major investments in this sector of the economy by both foreign investors and officials at the ROA.

 

#1 is peace

# Guaranty of stability

# major crack down on corruption

# Investment in advanced education among young

# Active public relations campaign.

 

Just like Ireland did not to long ago

 

Dear Edward,

 

Comparing Armenia with the Ireland is correct, but RoA has some serious obstacles, to be eliminated, in the following point you listed:

 

# Investment in advanced education among young.

We need the investments, you suggest; because after RoA liberalization in the area of university education, allowing creation of private universities. We have some major problems there:

 

Armenian families, you know, in past and now, are doing everything possible to get their children educated. Under USSR Armenians have been in the first place, among all 15 republics, in terms of percentage of population with university education. And now the trend remains strong, but there are major constraints:

 

1) Most of private universities, have teachers, who are not qualified enough to teach even in schools. But the Universities in their advertisements are "ensuring" High-quality education at low cost and the average RoA citizen who can not estimate the gap between their promises actual performance is being trapped. After graduation nobody hires the "specialists", but parents already spent the money.

 

2) Under USSR the State University education quality was high enough to be proud for. But now due to increased corruption in the educational institutions, because of very low salary of teachers, the quality standards are degrading.

 

Thus we need strong, independent, University accreditation system in RoA and funds to increase teachers and scientists salaries. But even though we have enough specialists in the High-tech, IT and other areas, and eliminating the educational system gaps above will multiply the number of highly qualified specialists.

 

Regards,

 

GeovorgP

Edited January 26, 2007 by GevorgP

[ED]

Dear GevorgP,

 

This is exactly my sentiments and the wish,

 

With so many forms of aid going to Armenia, allocation of some funds could be as investments in this aspect,

I remember the education system during late 70's in our country; I was amongst those students only to cut my studies short due to immigration.

 

I remember by the time of 3rd Diaspora-Armenia convention in Yerevan only fraction of Diasporans were attending, compare to first

 

tremendous amounts of money is spent in Washington and capitals all around the world for single purpose, for the recognition of AG, and I'm one of those contributors, I see it as a duty, but also we must not limit our self’s, expansion and creating an environment to produce sharp and able minds to challenge in today’s global economy is equally important. This is the only way to become economically strong and to us at fusible point, nothing short of "sacrifices" must be made from all individuals, organizations, and social structures who see this, and the generation will respond in a very positive way, gradually, and naturally, the pessimist attitude that we became to develope/inhereted through out history!, will start to change and give rise to new breed of generations.

 

We have many advantages we inherited also from our ancestors, a culture which is very strong, and with this in our hearts and genes it shouldn’t be hard to begin a new chapter, the chapter of the history of the future

 

we Armenians are strange breed of people, annalistically we surpass any other Nation, yet most of the times analyses end up in a negative side in our brains, this king of psychology if continues nothing will change and even would get worst, its not a phenomena.

 

But Maybe I'm naïve? I don’t think so! Even at this age

But I believe this thread can be reversed and people will finally realise the key essential elements for healthier future. For us to overcome the past, we must start to look forward Armenian History, unfortunately left some irreversible factors which is going to hunt us many years yet to come, that we must also learn to live with. We can not progress feeling sad and unjustified, Nations only die this way.

 

[zurderer]

Zureder 10 million armenians in a small country like armenia? Are you kidding me? There will be no place to sit. Everybody will be on their feets to fit inside the borders of armenia.

 

Look at israel. They are still wanting more immigration to their lands. As I said before, time for lands is passed. It is time for people and production.

 

But I am sure our neighbours, particularly turkey, will notice that and considering their hospitality and big and open hearts they will offer us some parts of their(our historical) lands so everybody can live comfortable and happy forever.

 

why not. Okey. They can come to istanbul. I think we have enough place at istanbul even for 10 million armenians. I dont think armenians would prefer van.

How about that zurderer?

 

Yeah. Immigrate turkey. We have not enough armenian in Turkey. More armenian in Turkey, less headache from diaspora.

Deal?

 

Okey. So I cannot become armenian. Sad but I should accept this reality. Life is not as beatiful as before.

 

[GevorgP]

Dear GevorgP,

 

This is exactly my sentiments and the wish,

 

With so many forms of aid going to Armenia, allocation of some funds could be as investments in this aspect,

I remember the education system during late 70's in our country; I was amongst those students only to cut my studies short due to immigration.

 

I remember by the time of 3rd Diaspora-Armenia convention in Yerevan only fraction of Diasporans were attending, compare to first

 

tremendous amounts of money is spent in Washington and capitals all around the world for single purpose, for the recognition of AG, and I'm one of those contributors, I see it as a duty, but also we must not limit our self's, expansion and creating an environment to produce sharp and able minds to challenge in today's global economy is equally important. This is the only way to become economically strong and to us at fusible point, nothing short of "sacrifices" must be made from all individuals, organizations, and social structures who see this, and the generation will respond in a very positive way, gradually, and naturally, the pessimist attitude that we became to develope/inhereted through out history!, will start to change and give rise to new breed of generations.

 

We have many advantages we inherited also from our ancestors, a culture which is very strong, and with this in our hearts and genes it shouldn't be hard to begin a new chapter, the chapter of the history of the future

 

we Armenians are strange breed of people, annalistically we surpass any other Nation, yet most of the times analyses end up in a negative side in our brains, this king of psychology if continues nothing will change and even would get worst, its not a phenomena.

 

But Maybe I'm naïve? I don't think so! Even at this age

But I believe this thread can be reversed and people will finally realise the key essential elements for healthier future. For us to overcome the past, we must start to look forward Armenian History, unfortunately left some irreversible factors which is going to hunt us many years yet to come, that we must also learn to live with. We can not progress feeling sad and unjustified, Nations only die this way.

 

Dear Edward,

 

RoA strength is proportional to the sacrifice of its heroes, who poured their blood in sake of our motherland; to oust enemies from the sacred land, scattered with the tombs of our ancestors. But taking back the land should be supported by our material, financial sacrifice to sustain, develop and reinforce our regained statehood. Otherwise the heroes sacrifice would be useless.

 

World says that the Jews and Armenians are clever. Being cleaver means, predicting realistic vision of desired and achievable future, instilling our young generation with the pragmatic hope and projections. And if we try hard and continue to go in the right direction, one day the vision, for sure, will become reality.

 

Since 1915, for decades the Genocide recognition possibility, didn't seem realistic at all, but due to positive thinking of devoted to the cause Armenian patriots; who suffered hardship, nurtured the hope and kept its candle lightening, regardless of difficulties encountered all the way; that it is useless and unwise to expect that the world will accept it. They gradually got our young generation instilled with the idea, for long decades, made them believe that the Genocide recognition is realistic and achievable.

 

God bless them all. And we, in our turn, appreciate their contribution and sacrifice for the Nation's cause.

 

Now it easy to predict that in near future the Genocide recognition process will be completed, nobody doubts it.

 

We are believers; our Nation's outstanding qualities and diligence, soon, will be converted into bright future.

 

With best regards,

 

GevorgP

Edited January 27, 2007 by GevorgP

[GevorgP]

Turkey "tolerates" historical Christian monuments – churches but; without their crosses.

 

Turkey's last move to show up the naive Christian democracies worldwide that now they become "civilized" proponents of inter-religious tolerance.

Sure they are; but with a "small" exception, Turks think that the churches like Christians/Armenians are safe without their "parts" at the top; that is, as usual, Turks can tolerate only decapitated ones.

Turks renovated historical Akhtamar 'Sacred Cross" Armenian-Christian Church except the cross at the top; ensuring that in near future, nothing will prevent them to convert it to mosque, as they have done with hundreds of Western Armenia churches.

 

Therefore:

 

RoA delegation must reject Turkey's invitation to take part at the opening ceremony of the Akhtamar 'Sacred Cross" (Surb Khach) Church; because without the cross it is not historical Armenian Church; it is a "poor" candidate of another mosque.

 

Regards,

 

GevorgP

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2007 by GevorgP

[neko]

Turkey "tolerates" historical Christian monuments – churches but; without their crosses.

 

Turkey's last move to show up the naive Christian democracies worldwide that now they become "civilized" proponents of inter-religious tolerance.

Sure they are; but with a "small" exception, Turks think that the churches like Christians/Armenians are safe without their "parts" at the top; that is, as usual, Turks can tolerate only decapitated ones.

Turks renovated historical Akhtamar 'Sacred Cross" Armenian-Christian Church except the cross at the top; ensuring that in near future, nothing will prevent them to convert it to mosque, as they have done with hundreds of Western Armenia churches.

 

Therefore:

 

RoA delegation must reject Turkey's invitation to take part at the opening ceremony of the Akhtamar 'Sacred Cross" (Surb Khach) Church; because without the cross it is not historical Armenian Church; it is a "poor" candidate of another mosque.

 

Regards,

 

GevorgP

#

 

And as cross-posting moron to boot.

There is no need to post identical postings in at least three separate threads.

Edited March 24, 2007 by neko

[GevorgP]

#

 

And as cross-posting moron to boot.

There is no need to post identical postings in at least three separate threads.

 

 

 

Great!

 

You showed up your hatred against me and the rest of Armenians:

 

Because …

 

I wrote in my post; (you quoted it):

 

Turkey's last move to show up the naive Christian democracies worldwide that now they become "civilized" proponents of inter-religious tolerance.

Sure they are; but with a "small" exception, Turks think that the churches like Christians/Armenians are safe without their "parts" at the top; that is, as usual, Turks can tolerate only decapitated ones.

 

Turks renovated historical Akhtamar "Sacred Cross" Armenian-Christian Church except the cross at the top; ensuring that in near future, nothing will prevent them to convert it to mosque, as they have done with hundreds of Western Armenia churches.

 

You answered:

"Another moron"

 

 

That is my statement that the churches should have a cross at its top is a silly one for such an intellectual like "you" (it).

 

I guess you are sure that the world considers Turks and their proponents most wise people in the earth therefore the Jews and Armenians are in 2-nd and 3-rd places. So you are not moron, the qualifying word for you is not conceived yet (but still your English is the best among wolves).

 

Note please that the threads, I've made the post, are mine, and they contain discussions relating to the subject of the post.

 

Zurderer is able to think, and you can write in English his thoughts. Together you can act as one in-dependent forum member.

 

Please give this to Zurderer to read.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2007 by GevorgP

[tuurkhdenial Paradigm]

It turned into a museum.Please regard it not as something related to Armenian pressures.

[irlandahay]

It turned into a museum.Please regard it not as something related to Armenian pressures.

 

armenian pressures?

where do you come from?

 

the forum is starting to smell of dung again...

seems you guys are crowding here. you here to defend atatturks heterosexuality?

you see, the greeks are smarter then that. if you call him a homosexuel, they knew you guys would get pissed off. but if you do your crazy skin head protests, youl only prove that on top of that your homophobic...

 

why are you here anyway? your going to try and prove all these armenians wrong? your going to stick your nose in and present crappy excuses for arguments?

 

 

you can turn it into whatever you want. its still part of our heritage. akhtamar will always be a church. it is one of our most beautiful ones too. you can remove the cross and write mohammed all over it it'l still stay our church. your government is good at brainwashing turks but wer not as dumb. you probably think hagua sophia was built as a mosque...

[tuurkhdenial Paradigm]

armenian pressures?

where do you come from?

 

the forum is starting to smell of dung again...

seems you guys are crowding here. you here to defend atatturks heterosexuality?

you see, the greeks are smarter then that. if you call him a homosexuel, they knew you guys would get pissed off. but if you do your crazy skin head protests, youl only prove that on top of that your homophobic...

 

why are you here anyway? your going to try and prove all these armenians wrong? your going to stick your nose in and present crappy excuses for arguments?

you can turn it into whatever you want. its still part of our heritage. akhtamar will always be a church. it is one of our most beautiful ones too. you can remove the cross and write mohammed all over it it'l still stay our church. your government is good at brainwashing turks but wer not as dumb. you probably think hagua sophia was built as a mosque...

Whether you claim Ataturk was heterosexual or homosexual doesnt change the fact and I didnt say a word about Ataturk

 

I am not trying to prove anything here.Turco-Armenian relations up to now has proved that you have created a myth in which Turks are nothing but demons.I can hardly prove here that I dont hate Armenians,canI?

[Error 404]

This guy sounds like zurderer. I think it's zurderer playing cat and mouse game. If not then most of the turks are the same.

[tuurkhdenial Paradigm]

Oh yes.We are the same on the fact that Ataturk was heterosexual and that you Armenians might hardly distinguish us from demons. Edited April 9, 2007 by Armenianocide Paradigm

[Error 404]

Well demons is too harsh. But some of your countrymen are worse than demons.

 

I would say disrespect and lack of trust to the most ignorant deniers from turkey.

 

You guys invaded our country thousand years ago, destroyed everything and killed the population during the years. In the end of 19th and in the beginning of 20th centuries you have massacred ethnic Armenians(1.5 million) in most heinous ways the sick human mind can imagine and now you are trying to deny it as a genocide.

 

What else do you expect?

[irlandahay]

Whether you claim Ataturk was heterosexual or homosexual doesnt change the fact and I didnt say a word about Ataturk

 

I am not trying to prove anything here.Turco-Armenian relations up to now has proved that you have created a myth in which Turks are nothing but demons.I can hardly prove here that I dont hate Armenians,canI?

 

your right...the Ataturk comment was out fo place, I'l just wait til you notice it on the "humour" section, there I'l bash you to my hearts desire.

 

turko-armenian relations cannot get any better. I find it quite amusing really that you come here playing the bigger man, posing as the victim. yes, we armenians create myths, its our fault we were wiped out, its our fault you closed your borders for it all. i suppose your expecting an apology?

 

turks are demons only because in the single millenium of their existence they have done so much to reinforce my theory that turks cannot be considered human beings.

[tuurkhdenial Paradigm]

Well demons is too harsh. But some of your countrymen are worse than demons.

 

I would say disrespect and lack of trust to the most ignorant deniers from turkey.

 

You guys invaded our country thousand years ago, destroyed everything and killed the population during the years. In the end of 19th and in the beginning of 20th centuries you have massacred ethnic Armenians(1.5 million) in most heinous ways the sick human mind can imagine and now you are trying to deny it as a genocide.

 

What else do you expect?

If your land has been under invasion for a thousand year,then it is no longer your country.Otuken,which is in Asia, was the holy city for ancient Turks, but after 2000 years,I now hesitate to call it part of my country.

I am well aware of those who died during that period.But your Turcophobia forces me to react rather them redemption..

And here is my incarnate demon form

[