Dave Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 I believe Turkey still has a military alliance with Israel. Turkey would be more of a help to Israel if Iran takes an active part in the conflict, as it is Israel's only ally that has a border with Iran. Arpa, Turkey and Iran were also traditionnal rivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 (edited) I believe Turkey still has a military alliance with Israel. Turkey would be more of a help to Israel if Iran takes an active part in the conflict, as it is Israel's only ally that has a border with Iran. Arpa, Turkey and Iran were also traditionnal rivals. It would be extremely intereresting to see those "traditional rivals" involved. Of course, if and when Turkey enters the scene it entails that it will involve the entire NATO, including charter member Greece with it.?? !! VERRREEE INTERRESTING!! Edited July 15, 2006 by Arpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 One can only wish that those who know beans about the Middle East, and those who may think Palestine to be a suburb of Crawford Texas would keep quiet and hold their comments about “kidnapping”. It has been said; “One man’s freedom fighter is another’s ‘terrorist’”. Speaking of kidnapping. Two Israelis? How about those tens of thousands “kidnappees”, boys, girls, men and women in Israeli prisons. Is it “kidnapping” when done by “freedom fighters” but “protective custody” when done by a state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Did anyone watch the interview on MSNBC with the Israeli and Syrian ambassadors of the United States? The interviewer gives the Israeli a free pass on all the issues and when the poor Syrian with his fragmented, hoarse voice attempts to defend his side he is just rained down with all sorts of pathetic questions such as "Does Syria support the terrorists?!" Two soldiers get kidnapped and Israel turns the Middle East into another powderkeg. But if the Syrian abassador could not make his point and is inept in English, it isen't an excuse, they just had to send someone who could articulate better. I don't view the situation the same way, I think both sides wanted to attack and they needed a pretext, the two soldiers kidnapping was just a pretext. The Husabalah is to coward to go on the front and fight against the Israeli army so they like the Israeli take Lebanon as hostage. It is again others war fought in Lebanon, indeed if there is any parallel to make is not Israel and Armenia, but Lebanon and Armenia, Lebanon is what Armenia was in the past. I see Israel as guilty as the Hasbulah, I just want both of them out from Lebanon, they can go fight in their own lands, but hell sake out of Lebanon. They ruinated the country, and now they decide to resume their wars. Hasbulah doesn't even care, Lebanon could be to the ground they will just have to migrate, and why Israel should care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyethga Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 (edited) Add Hezbollah and Israel along with the PFLP and the Phalangists on those who destroyed Lebanon. Bayts lusek, Israeyeluh, shat eh hamu hanum. Heema tesek vor amen yerkree petoutyoun eerants kunadatoum a, lav en anoum. Groguh tanee, Israel? Palestine? Nouyn zeebeeluhnen. To see the international reaction including Turkey's see here International reaction to the 2006 Israel-Lebanon Crisis There's idiots on both sides of the fence. Edited July 15, 2006 by hyethga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyethga Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Let's not forget the famous remark by Turkey's ambassador to Israel who suggested that israel's actions against the Palestinians was a "genocide". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Wasn't that comment directed to the US regarding its actions in Fallujah, Iraq last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Wasn't that comment directed to the US regarding its actions in Fallujah, Iraq last year? Actually, both are right, Turkey both accused Israel and the US of genocide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Read the second article Dave. http://www.lecourrier.ch/Selection/sel2002_250.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Thank you for refreshing my memory Quebecer and hyethga. Regardless of these Turkish comments, the Jewish lobby in the US has continued to support the Turkish lobby and the denial of the Armenian genocide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 We just got our power back here.They've been rationing out power. It's 6 am and it's very calm. We could actually sleep during the night. After the ship, a failed sea landing, and direct damage to northern communities including 2 dead, the Israelis seem to be starting to get the hint. Or maybe not, we will see. Either they will ask for ceasefire or make things worse, and they do have a way of doing the latter ALL THE TIME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 The Husabalah is to coward to go on the front and fight against the Israeli army so they like the Israeli take Lebanon as hostage. It is again others war fought in Lebanon, indeed if there is any parallel to make is not Israel and Armenia, but Lebanon and Armenia, Lebanon is what Armenia was in the past. I see Israel as guilty as the Hasbulah, I just want both of them out from Lebanon, they can go fight in their own lands, but hell sake out of Lebanon. They ruinated the country, and now they decide to resume their wars. Hasbulah doesn't even care, Lebanon could be to the ground they will just have to migrate, and why Israel should care? Hm, I don't think HezbAllah is cowardly at all. If it is any indication, HezbAllah single-handedly pushed back Israel - the world's 4th strongest army or sthg like that - in 2000. It also has provided defense to the south from Israeli incursions. If there is any reason the Israeli army is NOT marching in Beirut today, it is HEZBALLAH. Cowardly I don't think so. It was Israel that started targeting houses and killing civilians in response to the kidnapping of SOLDIERS. The Israelis - not HezbAllah - have held 4 million people hostage. HezbAllah gave them them chance to get themselves out of this mess and to negotiate. They refused. They escalated. They opened an all-out-war. And they shall pay the consequences. There will be blood on the streets of Tel Aviv. Far more blood than they have ever seen as a result of 1/year suicide bombings. They got used to too much security at our expense to value our lives, and now it's PAYBACK TIME. LET THEM SUFFER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 (edited) With its guerilla tactics, Hezballah could defend Lebanon very well. But how could it cause considerable damage (more than just a few civilians) to Tel Aviv without outside interference? Edited July 15, 2006 by Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyethga Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Let's not forget our brave Armenian fedayeen during the 1982 invasion who fought not only against the Phalangists, the PFLP but also the Israelis, resulting in them [the Israelis] retreating after suffering the loss of 800 soldiers within several months. I can't believe the amount the media is exaggerating the use of the Soviet WWII era Katyushas (not even a GRAD system) by Hebollah. Israel has F-16s, F-15s, Merkava tanks, AH-64 Apaches, naval warships while the Arabs are left to the pathetic (and indiscriminate) use of suicide bombing. Dozens have died and yet the anger that is projected against Hezbollah is completely disproportionate compared to that of the Israelis'. If anyone's interested, here is Armenia's response: "Foreign minister Vartan Oskanian issued a statement that "Armenia is extremely concerned about the military actions in Lebanon and their escalation, as well as the great loss of civilian life." "Armenia condemns any violence whether it be abduction or use of force," he underscored. "We particularly denounce the use of such disproportionate force intended solely to collectively punish civilians and damage infrastructure. This kind of reaction by Israel is particularly difficult to understand given the fact that the Lebanese government has clearly distanced itself from the abduction incident. We hope that there will be restraint in the region and also hope there will be an immediate ceasefire so that the issues can be addressed by peaceful means." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Hm, I don't think HezbAllah is cowardly at all. If it is any indication, HezbAllah single-handedly pushed back Israel - the world's 4th strongest army or sthg like that - in 2000. It also has provided defense to the south from Israeli incursions. If there is any reason the Israeli army is NOT marching in Beirut today, it is HEZBALLAH. Cowardly I don't think so. It was Israel that started targeting houses and killing civilians in response to the kidnapping of SOLDIERS. The Israelis - not HezbAllah - have held 4 million people hostage. HezbAllah gave them them chance to get themselves out of this mess and to negotiate. They refused. They escalated. They opened an all-out-war. And they shall pay the consequences. There will be blood on the streets of Tel Aviv. Far more blood than they have ever seen as a result of 1/year suicide bombings. They got used to too much security at our expense to value our lives, and now it's PAYBACK TIME. LET THEM SUFFER. Sassun, I don't think you are fair. Had there been no Huzbelah, Lebanon would not need defense from the South. It is obvious that Israel is overreacting, but when you have bunch of countries that want to see your destruction you can not assume good faith from an extremist group. Israel already exchanged prisoners, it did in 2004 I think, somewhere like 400 prisoners, but this attack was prepared, it is not like Israel always maintain this line. It also retracted. What happened? Did it do anything? No, the Huzbelah actually used the retreat to organize. You can not filicitate the group when without its existance this situation would not have happened, its part of the problem and not the solution, they are not heros. Cowards? Well sorry, they are IN Lebanon and fighting a war IN Lebanon, they hide wherever they want and launch an attack. Of course had Israel not acted like they have acted for decades, that group would never had obtained the support from the population they have now. But don't place the blame on one side, the current situation is mostly Israel's fault, but the Huzbelay is not blameless far from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 With its guerilla tactics, Hezballah could defend Lebanon very well. But how could it cause considerable damage (more than just a few civilians) to Tel Aviv without outside interference? Hm, ever heard of long-range missiles? Tel Aviv (and Ben-Gurion airport) are definitely within reach. If Katyushas have killed 4 people and thrown the entire north of Israel into panic, THUNDER-1 and EARTHQUAKE-1 missiles can turn life in Israel into hell. Pure hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Let's not forget our brave Armenian fedayeen during the 1982 invasion who fought not only against the Phalangists, the PFLP but also the Israelis, resulting in them [the Israelis] retreating after suffering the loss of 800 soldiers within several months. And lets not forget the purge in the Armenian 'quarter' by such 'heros' à la Huzbelah too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 If Katyushas have killed 4 people and thrown the entire north of Israel into panic, THUNDER-1 and EARTHQUAKE-1 missiles can turn life in Israel into hell. Pure hell. Well, the conspirationists like me will answer that it could have very well been Israel's reaction to critics to simulate by a bomb a missile attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Had there been no Huzbelah, Lebanon would not need defense from the South. Tell me why HezbAllah came into being. Israel has the world's 4th (or sthg like that) strongest army and air force, that HezbAllah or Syria (or maybe even Iran) pose a danger to its SURVIVAL is a joke. A joke that is meant to justify the Israelis' thirst for blood and greed. They are not fighting a war in Lebanon. Israel has struck anything BUT HezbAllah. If they wanted to fight, they would have done so on the border, where HezbAllah operatives are still operating. Instead they chose to make it personal and strike the airport over and over and over and over and over again. Cowards. That's what they are. I would've loved to see what they would've done had they not had their air force. Their civilians started running away from cities after 2 Katyushas (toy rockets, slightly better than Qassams). Imagine what will happen if they hit Tel Aviv. The Jews will pack their bags and leave. Or start WWIII out of cowardice. HezbAllah is not blameless, sure. But what Israel has done has pushed 99% of Lebanon's population into the arms of HezbAllah, and rightly so. It's not HezbAllah's fault if Israel keeps strengthening it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Tell me why HezbAllah came into being. Israel has the world's 4th (or sthg like that) strongest army and air force, that HezbAllah or Syria (or maybe even Iran) pose a danger to its SURVIVAL is a joke. A joke that is meant to justify the Israelis' thirst for blood and greed. They are not fighting a war in Lebanon. Israel has struck anything BUT HezbAllah. If they wanted to fight, they would have done so on the border, where HezbAllah operatives are still operating. Instead they chose to make it personal and strike the airport over and over and over and over and over again. Cowards. That's what they are. I would've loved to see what they would've done had they not had their air force. Their civilians started running away from cities after 2 Katyushas (toy rockets, slightly better than Qassams). Imagine what will happen if they hit Tel Aviv. The Jews will pack their bags and leave. Or start WWIII out of cowardice. HezbAllah is not blameless, sure. But what Israel has done has pushed 99% of Lebanon's population into the arms of HezbAllah, and rightly so. It's not HezbAllah's fault if Israel keeps strengthening it. If Israel goes on the border, the Hezbulah will retreat their position, how many times did it happen? What do you want them to do, invade Lebanon? What success did the Americans achieved in Iraq? They have invaded the entire country and still there are as we speak still US soldieres being targeted and attacked. Idealy, in a war, both use the same means..., but we are dealing with a well trained, prepared army against some underground paramilitary group that plays durty. Until that group pack their bags and leave Lebanon that's the situation. Supposedly Syria did it, so what they wait to get hell out of there? This entire conflict is about Palestine, Syria and Israel, Lebanon is only a third party on the middle, which others use to attack eachothers. The US already tasted it, and they left the place. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Not really, Israel is in no position to invade Lebanon, both militarily (hence the air force strikes) and politically (domestically, people have still not recovered from the idea of being kicked out of Lebanon). HezbAllah is more than an "underground paramilitary group that plays dirty". Believe me. HezbAllah's secret of sucess is discipline. Also, just because one is an army and the other a guerilla faction does not mean one is more moral than the other... Israel has been practicing state terrorism - against the Palestinians and now (and in the past 20 years) against us. Lebanon is no longer a "3rd" party merely used as a battleground. At least 40% of Lebanese are purely HezbAllah supporters, and many non-Shi'ites are pro-HezbAllah too. That means that there is real animosity towards Israel, rather than the previous position of "we don't care about what's going on, we just want to live in peace". When Israel keeps turning us into shooting ducks in its attempt to change regime in Syria and threaten Iran, that's what happens. And believe me, it's been anything BUT overnight. I must go and catch some more sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyethga Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 I think it was Hamas that was created by Israel to counter Fatah...hehe can't help but chuckle at the irony as how that bit them in the @ss when they saw that Hamas would no longer be their pawns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 The Olmert government just broke the record for human stupidity. Beirut was just showered with leaflets depicting Nasrallah as a cobra. Man, kids with missiles leading the world to WWIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassun Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Civilian gas stations are being targeted throughout the south at the moment. Power station has been targeted again. The remaining bridges in north, south, east of the country have been leveled. Numerous civilian casualties. Israel warned residents of a southern town to evacuate the town within 2 hours or else it would be leveled. Civilians panicked and rushed to the nearby UNIFIL HQ, which refused to take them in. They then went to the Fiji battalion of UNIFIL, which searched them for weapons, then refused to let them in saying they should take refuse in Mosques. So much for UN defending human rights. So much for international community. The Lebanese are on their own now, and for that support for HezbAllah will multiply in the coming years. Yes, years. HezbAllah is here to stay, and much stronger too, thanks to Israel. Update: A Mosque was just targeted. Israeli Army Chief: "Nowhere in Lebanon is safe" I was going to post this a few hours ago but it's been hectic, I've been updating my blog almost by the minute and receiving dozens of inquiries. A massacre took place in one of the towns in the south, Israeli jets targeted refugees fleeing a town in cars. 12 civilians killed, mostly women and children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 Now, Israel alleges that 100 Iranian soldiers were helping Hezballah in targeting that warship. More here: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2195665 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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