War In The Middle East

[Verginne]

Haaretz

 

"And even if the Hamas government falls, as Washington wants, what will happen on the day after? These are questions for which nobody has any real answers. As usual here: Quiet, we're shooting. But this time we are not only shooting. We are bombing and shelling, darkening and destroying, imposing a siege and kidnapping like the worst of terrorists and nobody breaks the silence to ask, what the hell for, and according to what right."

 

 

A black flag

by Gideon Levy

 

A black flag hangs over the "rolling" operation in Gaza. The more the operation "rolls," the darker the flag becomes. The "summer rains" we are showering on Gaza are not only pointless, but are first and foremost blatantly illegitimate. It is not legitimate to cut off 750,000 people from electricity. It is not legitimate to call on 20,000 people to run from their homes and turn their towns into ghost towns. It is not legitimate to penetrate Syria's airspace. It is not legitimate to kidnap half a government and a quarter of a parliament.

 

A state that takes such steps is no longer distinguishable from a terror organization. The harsher the steps, the more monstrous and stupid they become, the more the moral underpinnings for them are removed and the stronger the impression that the Israeli government has lost its nerve. Now one must hope that the weekend lull, whether initiated by Egypt or the prime minister, and in any case to the dismay of Channel 2's Roni Daniel and the IDF, will lead to a radical change.

 

Everything must be done to win Gilad Shalit's release. What we are doing now in Gaza has nothing to do with freeing him. It is a widescale act of vengeance, the kind that the IDF and Shin Bet have wanted to conduct for some time, mostly motivated by the deep frustration that the army commanders feel about their impotence against the Qassams and the daring Palestinian guerilla raid. There's a huge gap between the army unleashing its frustration and a clever and legitimate operation to free the kidnapped soldier.

 

To prevent the army from running as amok as it would like, a strong and judicious political echelon is required. But facing off against the frustrated army is Ehud Olmert and Amir Peretz's tyro regime, weak and happless. Until the weekend lull, it appeared that each step proposed by the army and Shin Bet had been immediately approved for backing. That does not bode well, not only for the chances of freeing Shalit, but also for the future management of the government, which is being revealed to be as weak as the Hamas government.

 

The only wise and restrained voice heard so far was that of the soldier's father, Noam Shalit, of all people. That noble man called at what is clearly his most difficult hour, not for stridency and not for further damage done to the lives of soldiers and innocent Palestinians. Against the background of the IDF's unrestrained actions and the arrogant bragging of the latest macho spokesmen, Maj. Gen. Yoav Gallant of the Southern Command and Maj. Gen. (res.) Amos Gilad, Shalit's father's voice stood out like a voice crying in the wilderness.

 

Sending tens of thousands of miserable inhabitants running from their homes, dozens of kilometers from where his son is supposedly hidden, and cutting off the electricity to hundreds of thousands of others, is certainly not what he meant in his understated emotional pleas. It's a shame nobody is listening to him, of all people.

 

The legitimate basis for the IDF's operation was stripped away the moment it began. It's no accident that nobody mentions the day before the attack on the Kerem Shalom fort, when the IDF kidnapped two civilians, a doctor and his brother, from their home in Gaza. The difference between us and them? We kidnapped civilians and they captured a soldier, we are a state and they are a terror organization. How ridiculously pathetic Amos Gilad sounds when he says that the capture of Shalit was "illegitimate and illegal," unlike when the IDF grabs civilians from their homes. How can a senior official in the defense ministry claim that "the head of the snake" is in Damascus, when the IDF uses the exact same methods?

 

True, when the IDF and Shin Bet grab civilians from their homes - and they do so often - it is not to murder them later. But sometimes they are killed on the doorsteps of their homes, although it is not necessary, and sometimes they are grabbed to serve as "bargaining chips," like in Lebanon and now, with the Palestinian legislators. What an uproar there would be if the Palestinians had grabbed half the members of the Israeli government. How would we label them?

 

Collective punishment is illegitimate and it does not have a smidgeon of intelligence. Where will the inhabitants of Beit Hanun run? With typical hardheartedness the military reporters say they were not "expelled" but that it was "recommended" they leave, for the benefit, of course, of those running for their lives. And what will this inhumane step lead to? Support for the Israeli government? Their enlistment as informants and collaborators for the Shin Bet? Can the miserable farmers of Beit Hanun and Beit Lahia do anything about the Qassam rocket-launching cells? Will bombing an already destroyed airport do anything to free the soldier or was it just to decorate the headlines?

 

Did anyone think about what would have happened if Syrian planes had managed to down one of the Israeli planes that brazenly buzzed their president's palace? Would we have declared war on Syria? Another "legitimate war"? Will the blackout of Gaza bring down the Hamas government or cause the population to rally around it? And even if the Hamas government falls, as Washington wants, what will happen on the day after? These are questions for which nobody has any real answers. As usual here: Quiet, we're shooting. But this time we are not only shooting. We are bombing and shelling, darkening and destroying, imposing a siege and kidnapping like the worst of terrorists and nobody breaks the silence to ask, what the hell for, and according to what right

[Sassun]

Attacks have continued all night long. The jets could be heard buzzing above us, bombing residential neighbourhoods.

 

They already hit the fuel tanks at the airport, arguing that it might be used to transfer the hostages out of the country. If this is not pure malice (let's say the targeting of civilians isn't) then I don't know what is. They also hit a power station. I expect the situation to be really bad today. The Israelis are playing with fire, and it will soon blow up in their (and our) faces. This might just as well be the precedent for another civil war in Lebanon, though the Lebanese have - thus far - acted professionally towards Israeli aggression and malice, and not let it put the wheels of in-fighting into motion.

[Sassun]

What would be the right thing to do in your opinion, Sassun?

Release all Lebanese prisoners and hostages in Israeli jails in compliance with international law. Had it done that years ago - and HezbAllah has constantly called for that - this would've never happened. It would've also put HezbAllah in a difficult position, as would have a withdrawal from Shebaa Farms. But Israel keeps the farms, and the Lebanese prisoners and hostages for a reason, and that is, to keep HezbAllah relatively strong (despite claims that it wants to see HezbAllah fully eliminated). With the absence of HezbAllah a major disagreement in Lebanese politics would be eliminated, as would the pretext to attack Lebanon occassionally as the Gaza border heats up (to divert world attention). Remember, Israel has done all that (diverting world attention, etc.) before, so it's nothing out of the ordinary.

 

To answer your previous questions:

 

2. No, and the Lebanese government (and the international community) have not done anything to advocate the cause of the release of Lebanese prisoners and hostages in Israeli jails. Also Israeli withdrawal from Gaza is by no means equivalent to ending its occupation of it. Gaza is still practically under aerial, naval, and ground siege (not talking about the kidnapping), and completely dependent on Israel. Firing Katyushas on civilian targets happened (at least in this instance) after Israel targeted HOUSES, wiping out entire families. Believe me, Qassams and Katyushas are toys compared to what Israel has pounded the Palestinians and us Lebanese with.

 

3. Not really, HezbAllah's agenda is to free Lebanese prisoners, not Hamas prisoners... Also, it is a bit misleading to consider all prisoners in Israeli jails to be suicide bombers... Many are in fact children, many don't even know why they were arrested, they were simply KIDNAPPED from their homes. Notice how they were talking about the possibility of releasing "non-terrorist prisoners".

 

4. Not all, but most. But most favour indefinite ceasefire and only a marginal few want a peace deal (most know that peace will be dictated by the powerful).

 

Hope those answer your questions?

[Sassun]

Fresh strikes on Beirut airport. The airport has now become useless except in case MAJOR repair works are done. HezbAllah is yet to be hit. Highways have been bombed, including the last exit passage for civilians to Syria, the Beirut-Damascus highway. The southern suburbs of Beirut have also been hit. Bridges have collapsed over a number of cars and civilians crushed in their cars. Now Israel holds 4 million hostages, allegedly in retaliation for 2 prisoners of war.

[Sassun]

Tonight Beirut and its suburbs, and - who knows ? - Mount Lebanon will burn.

 

Israel seems to be refusing any diplomatic efforts to put an end to this.

 

HezbAllah is YET to be hit.

[Dave]

The PM of Canada, Stephen Harper, gave full support to Israel in its comments yesterday. Even Condoleezza Rice asked Israel to show restraint in its "actions of self-defense"...

 

The Jewish and Lebanese/Palestinian communities were protesting today in Montreal.

[Sassun]

ISRAELI GUNSHIP HIT ON THE COAST OF BEIRUT, AND SUNK.

 

2 ROCKETS, GUYS, DIRECT HITS, that's all it took. Nasrallah was on the phone, making a statement. He finished the statement, saying, look on the coast, and you will see an Israeli gunship. BURNING.

 

The Arabs, in their entire history, have been unable to do such damage to Israel.

 

The rules of the game have changed. HezbAllah has been patient so far. The sinking of the Israeli gunship is just the beginning of the unleasing of its WRATH.

 

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

 

HezbAllah gave Israel the chance to put an end to this DIPLOMATICALLY. Instead, Israel targeted civilians. And so, Haifa, and "way beyond Haifa, way way beyond Haifa" (as Nasrallah said) will pay.

[ED]

isent Harper the choosen conservative puppet of US?

 

I dont know, but I have a filling its going to get lot worts before it gets better, god forbits if Isreal atacks Syria the all out war is eminent

[Dave]

isent Harper the choosen conservative puppet of US?

 

Exactly...

 

btw the office of Hassan Nasrallah has been destroyed, along with his house. He is supposedly safe though:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6071400796.html

Edited July 14, 2006 by Dave

[Sassun]

Not "supposedly". He is safe, and may God keep him that way. He gave a live speech on the radio a while ago. The bravest man in Lebanon. Smart, cunning even, stubborn, determined. He lost his son on the battlefield in the war to drive Israel out of Lebanon. I don't think he's scared of death.

[Eurocentric]

I support neither side. Let them kill eachother. As long as Iran isn't directly involved I don't care if they start nuking Beirut or Tel Aviv.

[Eurocentric]

isent Harper the choosen conservative puppet of US?

 

He's the democratically elected PM as the leader of the Conservative Party who is finally making positive domestic changes within Canada after a decade of Liberal degradation.

[Sassun]

Well actually, no, not let them kill each other, the israelis will wipe us out. It is a fight for survival for us. For them it is the luxury of not having 2 soldiers kidnapped. All this is for "deterrence". We'll see if rockets on Tel Aviv will be deterred. If we're going to go down, we will go down fighting, and we will go down doing as much damage as possible.

[Eurocentric]

Well actually, no, not let them kill each other, the israelis will wipe us out. It is a fight for survival for us. For them it is the luxury of not having 2 soldiers kidnapped. All this is for "deterrence". We'll see if rockets on Tel Aviv will be deterred. If we're going to go down, we will go down fighting, and we will go down doing as much damage as possible.

 

Are there a lot of Armenians like you who view Lebanon anything but a temporary residence?

[Sassun]

The Armenians of Lebanon - those who have remained behind after the war and all the political storms - are very settled in the country, many are prosperous, though the economic situation has certainly had its toll. Armenians are loyal to the country of their birth and citizenship. Not all Armenians are as dedicated to being pawns in this game, but quite a few are involved in politics (or at least have views on the current situation). Most are bitter at what Israel has done, and would support any action against Israel. Many have been calling for the targeting of TEL AVIV. There is extreme joy in the country (even fireworks) at the hit that the gunship (which had been pounding residential neighbourhoods of Beirut all day long) took (and also sank, though being denied by Israel - at first they claimed there was slight damage now they say there is 'serious damage'). The Lebanese are so lighthearted, it makes me want to cry when I see how powerless they are that they burst into joy at the slightest 'victory.' Things have calmed down significantly after that strike. The city is quiet, save for occasional roars of jets (though not strikes). The Israelis attempted to do a sea landing at Sidon but it was a failure thanks to our ARMY and Palestinian factions working in collaboration. I love the way the Lebanese are united, and standing firm behind HezbAllah. The Israeli WAR CRIMES ensured that such a thing would happen.

[vava]

He's the democratically elected PM as the leader of the Conservative Party who is finally making positive domestic changes within Canada after a decade of Liberal degradation.

 

Modified your statement for accuracy

[Eurocentric]

Modified your statement for accuracy

 

Treehugger

[Eurocentric]

The Armenians of Lebanon - those who have remained behind after the war and all the political storms - are very settled in the country, many are prosperous, though the economic situation has certainly had its toll. Armenians are loyal to the country of their birth and citizenship. Not all Armenians are as dedicated to being pawns in this game, but quite a few are involved in politics (or at least have views on the current situation).

 

Ok is it fair to say that those in Lebanon that have the means to leave but choose to stay are Lebanese with Armenian heritage as opposed to Armenians in Lebanon?

[Dave]

I thought you would be a Lebanese of Armenian heritage if you don't speak the language, don't know the culture, the religion, if you don't adhere to any of the Armenian political movements to a certain degree, etc.

 

People like Karim Pakradouni come to mind.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karim_Pakradouni

[Sassun]

Eurocentric, I am not a big fan of labels, but if you can use the same term to refer to American-Armenians, French-Armenians, British-Armenians, then yeah, that would also apply to well-off Lebanese-Armenians.

 

There is a difference between: 1) adopting Lebanese culture in place of Armenian one and 2) being a proud citizen of a country at the same time keeping one's ties to one's cultural, ethnic, historical, religious roots.

[Arpa]

Yay! Yahoo! Hooray!

:clap:

Prophecy realized and vindicated?

Rev.16

[16] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Gen.19

[1] And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

[4] But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

[24] Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

[28] And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

What? You don’t believe in prophecy?

Of course, prophecy/mrophecy is not worth the papyrus it is written on until it comes to pass. Contrary to the conventional wisdom that “prophecies” are written by the (right) hand of God, they are written my man and they shall be realized by man.

“And the rockets’ red glare

The bombs bursting in air..”

Yay! Yahoo! Hooray! :clap:

The “bombs are bursting in air” over Beirut, that new Sodom and Gomorrah. Just like the biblical/symbolical Sodomites and Gomorrans the Beirutsis and the Lebanese answer to other than jewhovah and they deserve to be incinerated. Hopefully, this time, unlike before the Lebanese will recognize who the real enemy is and avoid another civil war when the (Christian) Phalangists sided with Israel and trusted them to clean the country of the opposition.

Does anyone know if there are any passages in the above “book of garbage” about the fate of Armenians v Turks and Azeris?? Of course not. But if that “book” were written today it may have said some “gobble -di-gook” and turkey droppings about it.

Will this escalate enough to conflagrate the entire Middle East, sucking in Syria, Iran and Turkey, and by association.. .Hayastan?

Those qatsordies!

May …

Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; be upon their heads.

Prophecy?

Armageddon?

My eshek!

[Verginne]

Keep those reports coming and GIVE 'EM HELL!!!

[hyethga]

Did anyone watch the interview on MSNBC with the Israeli and Syrian ambassadors of the United States? The interviewer gives the Israeli a free pass on all the issues and when the poor Syrian with his fragmented, hoarse voice attempts to defend his side he is just rained down with all sorts of pathetic questions such as "Does Syria support the terrorists?!"

 

Two soldiers get kidnapped and Israel turns the Middle East into another powderkeg.

[Arpa]

ISRAELI GUNSHIP HIT ON THE COAST OF BEIRUT, AND SUNK.

 

2 ROCKETS, GUYS, DIRECT HITS, that's all it took. Nasrallah was on the phone, making a statement. He finished the statement, saying, look on the coast, and you will see an Israeli gunship. BURNING.

 

The Arabs, in their entire history, have been unable to do such damage to Israel. The rules of the game have changed. HezbAllah has been patient so far. The sinking of the Israeli gunship is just the beginning of the unleasing of its WRATH.

 

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

 

HezbAllah gave Israel the chance to put an end to this DIPLOMATICALLY. Instead, Israel targeted civilians. And so, Haifa, and "way beyond Haifa, way way beyond Haifa" (as Nasrallah said) will pay.

It is a whole different picture from when little boys were hurling stones and in return being mowed down by uzi fire isn't it! Plus, Hizbollah, or whoever have finally brought their firework "home" rather than bombing American and other third party sites.

[Arpa]

It would be interesting to know what Ankara’s position is in all this drama.

Does any one know?

Or are they waiting in the wings to be invited into the foray so they can re-conquer “their lost territories” like Aleppo, Mosul et al.

There was a time when Ankara, ever so coyly and cowardly mildly criticized Israel for its abuse of their “Muslim Brothers”, but as shy and coy those statements were they were, for some mysterious reasons, never repeated.

See for yourselves:

http://www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_rep...p;language_id=1

 

''Israel's Shifting Geopolitical Security Concerns Threaten its Relationship with Turkey''



ne of the more notable geopolitical developments in recent years has been the maturing strategic relationship between Turkey and Israel, formalized by a 1996 accord cementing military ties between the two countries. Driven by the dissolution of the Cold War alliance system and a mutual recognition of common security interests, these states forged one of the most significant alliances in the Middle East. Both were regionally isolated, pro-Western, secular democracies fearful of the specter of radical Islamic groups, facing common enemies in Syria, Iran and, previously, Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

 

The Benefits of an Israeli-Turkish Alliance

 

Israel has always coveted close relations with Turkey, in part because of belief that such an alliance with a Muslim state helps dilute the religious element of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Turkey also represented a central pillar of Israel's "periphery states" doctrine, whereby Israel sought to counter its isolation by forming alliances with more remote, non-Arab neighbors. Turkey was the first country with a Muslim majority to recognize Israel, although positive relations with Israel were not a general priority for much of that country's history.

 

The end of the Cold War, however, left Ankara questioning Western security commitments and seeking strong allies to compensate for its own isolation, leaving it to consider its relationship with the Jewish state anew. Given their common security concerns, some form of Israeli-Turkish accommodation seemed an almost inevitable byproduct of shifting geopolitical winds. Ankara also found in Israel a generous arms merchant, quite willing to overlook Turkey's questionable human rights record and forego the litany of restrictions that so often accompany the transfer of Western military wares. But the alliance is currently showing signs of strain, as Ankara seems to be reconsidering the value of its relationship with Israel, which is scrambling to mend fences with its Turkish neighbor.

 

A Fraying Alliance

 

With the election of the Islamist Justice and Development Party (A.K.P.) in 2002 -- a moderate organization as far as Islamist entities go -- Ankara began to distance itself from Israel. It also began to slide away from Washington, incidentally -- as the run-up to the U.S. invasion of Iraq demonstrated quite amply. It sought to chart a more autonomous foreign policy than its predecessors, which in practical terms meant massaging relations with historical foes in Damascus and Tehran.

 

Eager to join the European Union, Ankara also moved to bring itself into alignment with prevailing European diplomatic opinion, which takes a generally dim view of Israeli policies, particularly with respect to the Palestinian issue. The A.K.P. has also moved to limit the traditional role of the army in Turkey's political life, in part to appease European sensibilities and prove its democratic

Edited July 15, 2006 by Arpa