Buddha

[Anoushik]

I strongly disagree here. Atheism is simply the belief of the non-existance of a god. This doesn't mean in anyway that an atheist doesn't search for meanings, or ain't looking for anything. Yet, how many atheists believe in the supernatural, alien ubductions etc? Even among atheists, those that don't have personal beliefs is about near to zero.

I agree with you here Domino (can you believe that regarding atheism? ... well, as long as you don't say that atheism is a religion )

 

I agree with you that atheists also search for the meaning in life and a creator of our universe and its purpose. I think that the difference between atheists and religious people is the purpose of the search. Religious people want approval with the way they lead their lives and reassurance that they are living life correctly, and so that translates into wanting to please the creator. Atheists want to understand the existence of life. They are not concerned whether their lifestyle will please the creator, since they are not pleased with the supposed creator themselves. Personally, when I discovered that this world is far from being good, that there is so much suffering in this world I realized that an all-powerful creator with good intentions could not possibly have made this world. But I am searching, like all human beings throughout our human existence, for the meaning of life.

[Anoushik]

Do you care where you go after you die?

Can I answer that too?

 

Yes, I care. But I can't expect anything from the afterlife or anticipate anything, since that world has never come into contact with our world. I have no idea what it is, moreover, I am not afraid of it, since I know that only an evil being (or God, whichever you want to call it) would punish people with the way they have lived their life on Earth, people who can't possibly grasp the extensiveness of their existence.

[Takoush]

Do you forget to live today while you are always thinking about what you are going to do tomorrow?

 

Don't run after something you will never reach. live your days as if they were your last

Here I agree. Live today and smell the roses or the aroma of that nice cup of coffee. Most of us throughout life we try to live for tomorrow. How rich I will be tomorrow so that I'll make that trip to go around the world. How am I going to build that house one day but if I had the money. The one days most of the time never do come, and you end up living for empty tomorrows.

 

I must add something here. Whether you're a believer of a God, any God or not, it is beneficial for one to take action now and do the things you would like to do now. Take action by planning for instance, either for a short term or a long term planning; but do it, because who knows if tomorrow will ever come and you would have missed the boat for your enjoyment in life; whatever that may be, even a cold glass of milk.

[aSoldier]

Personally, when I discovered that this world is far from being good, that there is so much suffering in this world I realized that an all-powerful creator with good intentions could not possibly have made this world.

 

People on this forum never cease to amaze me.

 

The term you used, 'this world is far from being good'; do you believe that this is God's choice? I have two words for you. Free will. It is up us to change the world. You want God to do all the work? He put you on this earth to spread the good news, to stop such evil. Those who lie, steal, cheat, kill, destroy, and plan evil have something in common. They are without religion. They seek pleasure without seeing the damage it can do. They think only of themselves, and think of how they can make their lives better, increasing posessions while decreasing their values. The world you speak of is not the world full of God's people.

 

And yet you see this as the reason you should not believe in God?! Honestly...

Edited December 1, 2005 by sSebB

[Eloren]

You want God to do all the work? He put you on this earth to spread the good news, to stop such evil.

 

 

This phrase never ceases to amaze me also

 

Why would God do this? Why would God care about this small stupid little planet in the whole Universe? He is God after all. If a man on earth had slaves and told them to go and talk about you in every town, he would be called a psycho.

[aSoldier]

This phrase never ceases to amaze me also

 

Why would God do this? Why would God care about this small stupid little planet in the whole Universe? He is God after all. If a man on earth had slaves and told them to go and talk about you in every town, he would be called a psycho.

 

Small? No. Stupid? Even chance. Little? Hardly.

 

Who are the slaves here? We love worshipping/praising/thanking/talking about God because of what he has done for us. We love him because he loved us first. After all, we are his creation, and he made us in his own image.

 

 

Genesis 1:26-28

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air...

 

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

 

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

[Sasun]

Well there's a lot of facts proving Christianity is the one true religion, but it's not something I have to prove.

That is not true. No single religion is the only true one. As one saint has said, all religions have a valid claim to the Truth.

[Sasun]

God is not your superior boss or your master. God should be your everyday best friend

I agree with this statement

[Anoushik]

People on this forum never cease to amaze me.

Seb, I'd like to respond to this thread sometime tonight if I have time - if not then I'll definitely respond in two weeks after finals

 

Seems like we have a couple of things to talk about

[DominO123]

The impression of the day for sSebB.

 

There are no soul, but we're eternel.

 

Your god gives you immortality, I give you eternity.

Your god gives you a sole(limited), I give you limiteless reality.

 

 

Mutiverse vs God

 

Multiverse 2

God 0

[Armat]

The impression of the day for sSebB.

 

There are no soul, but we're eternel.

 

Your god gives you immortality, I give you eternity.

Your god gives you a sole(limited), I give you limiteless reality.

 

 

Mutiverse vs God

 

Multiverse 2

God 0

Domino I will join in.Where do I sign up.

[Sip]

People on this forum never cease to amaze me.

 

The term you used, 'this world is far from being good'; do you believe that this is God's choice? I have two words for you. Free will. It is up us to change the world. You want God to do all the work? He put you on this earth to spread the good news, to stop such evil. Those who lie, steal, cheat, kill, destroy, and plan evil have something in common. They are without religion. They seek pleasure without seeing the damage it can do. They think only of themselves, and think of how they can make their lives better, increasing posessions while decreasing their values. The world you speak of is not the world full of God's people.

 

And yet you see this as the reason you should not believe in God?! Honestly...

 

The God you describe sounds like the most idiotic, helpless, useless, and worthless God ever. He can create time, the whole universe and man and woman and all that, but can't keep people from doing evil? Oh paaaaaaaaaalease ... that kind of a God is insult to all Gods.

 

Because either God can't prevent people from doing bad things, OR God likes to sit back and watch people do either good things or bad things. In the first case, he is useless. In the second case, he is just downright MEAN and sadistic. Either way, I can't see why anyone would pride themselves in believing in such a thing.

[Anoushik]

The term you used, 'this world is far from being good'; do you believe that this is God's choice? I have two words for you. Free will. It is up us to change the world. You want God to do all the work? He put you on this earth to spread the good news, to stop such evil. Those who lie, steal, cheat, kill, destroy, and plan evil have something in common. They are without religion. They seek pleasure without seeing the damage it can do. They think only of themselves, and think of how they can make their lives better, increasing posessions while decreasing their values. The world you speak of is not the world full of God's people.

sSebB, I'm not talking about common criminals who steal and murder (even though it is also evil)

 

When I say that the world is evil, I mean that how the world is made up that it is evil. Let's take a look at simple biology: microorganisms get eaten by bigger organisms, these in turn get eaten by smaller fish, smaller fish get eaten by bigger fish, fish in turn are eaten by birds, etc. Everyone and everything on these world survives at the expense of the other. A good-hearted God who is all-powerful surely could have come up with a better way for life to exist.

 

And we know very well that this doesn't just apply to the food chain. Look at the Iraqi war. A perfect example of bigger fish eating smaller fish. Iraq obviously has something that the US government wants for its own well-being and thought it was worth to go to war for... Genocides... why do genocides happen? Why did the Armenian genocide happen? Armenians were obviously a threat to the Turkish eyes for these monsters to believe that the only way they could ensure their future was to wipe out an entire population from the face of this earth... To be honest, as as Armenian just knowing of the genocide and of the great injustices that the Armenians have suffered throughout our history is enough for me to believe that there is no God.

[Anoushik]

Who are the slaves here? We love worshipping/praising/thanking/talking about God because of what he has done for us. We love him because he loved us first. After all, we are his creation, and he made us in his own image.

Genesis 1:26-28

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air...

 

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

 

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

If the supposed God loved us, why did he want us to reproduce like animals??? Look where it has gotten us! The majority of the world population is in poverty, living under horrible conditions. I guess I take everything personally, but I can't help it, that's how I am. If I see someone suffering, I feel their pain. Likewise, imagine living in a hole someplace without running water and toilet (aren't most people in Afghanistan living like this, heck, not only Afghanistan but a vast part of the Middle East, Africa, India, and China?). Isn't that suffering? You can't possibly say that maybe they enjoy living like that? We see very well animals living like that, struggling to survive each day and only concerned about reproducing. Aren't humans above that? Or at least supposed to be above that?

[Eloren]

It is completely illogic for a God most powerful that created EVERYTHING that exists to ask us stupid little meaningless mortal humans to go and spread his word, in a world HE created.

 

Imagine yourself playing SimCity and asking the residents of your town to go and tell themselves "Hey, the guy that plays the game and controls us is totally cool" .. I mean isn't this a lack of self esteem?

 

Why would God do such a thing? Unless..... Unless he is NOT the only God... and it is a competition between many Gods like the ancient greeks (and most ancient people) used to believe. That would make sense

[aSoldier]

The impression of the day for sSebB.

 

There are no soul, but we're eternel.

 

Your god gives you immortality, I give you eternity.

Your god gives you a sole(limited), I give you limiteless reality.

 

 

Mutiverse vs God

 

Multiverse 2

God 0

 

I need a big WTF pic for that

[Sip]

 

Instead of trying to understand, just accepts his offers of eternity and limitless reality. It's better for the long run

[aSoldier]

The God you describe sounds like the most idiotic, helpless, useless, and worthless God ever. He can create time, the whole universe and man and woman and all that, but can't keep people from doing evil? Oh paaaaaaaaaalease ... that kind of a God is insult to all Gods.

 

Because either God can't prevent people from doing bad things, OR God likes to sit back and watch people do either good things or bad things. In the first case, he is useless. In the second case, he is just downright MEAN and sadistic. Either way, I can't see why anyone would pride themselves in believing in such a thing.

 

Wow, I have to explain this to a 30 y/o.

 

He CAN keep people from doing evil, but like I've said for the um-teenth time, we are given free will to make our own choices.

 

If he was useless, you wouldn't even be alive. No one here would. But hey, you can believe whatever you want.

[aSoldier]

sSebB, I'm not talking about common criminals who steal and murder (even though it is also evil)

 

When I say that the world is evil, I mean that how the world is made up that it is evil. Let's take a look at simple biology: microorganisms get eaten by bigger organisms, these in turn get eaten by smaller fish, smaller fish get eaten by bigger fish, fish in turn are eaten by birds, etc. Everyone and everything on these world survives at the expense of the other. A good-hearted God who is all-powerful surely could have come up with a better way for life to exist.

 

And we know very well that this doesn't just apply to the food chain. Look at the Iraqi war. A perfect example of bigger fish eating smaller fish. Iraq obviously has something that the US government wants for its own well-being and thought it was worth to go to war for... Genocides... why do genocides happen? Why did the Armenian genocide happen? Armenians were obviously a threat to the Turkish eyes for these monsters to believe that the only way they could ensure their future was to wipe out an entire population from the face of this earth... To be honest, as as Armenian just knowing of the genocide and of the great injustices that the Armenians have suffered throughout our history is enough for me to believe that there is no God.

 

The food chain is the way of life for animals, evil has nothing to do with it. All of a sudden the whole American/Iraq war is your basis of the non-existence of God?

 

You will always find a reason to believe there is no God. There's no point in me continuing this arguement with you.

Edited December 2, 2005 by sSebB

[aSoldier]

If the supposed God loved us, why did he want us to reproduce like animals??? Look where it has gotten us! The majority of the world population is in poverty, living under horrible conditions. I guess I take everything personally, but I can't help it, that's how I am. If I see someone suffering, I feel their pain. Likewise, imagine living in a hole someplace without running water and toilet (aren't most people in Afghanistan living like this, heck, not only Afghanistan but a vast part of the Middle East, Africa, India, and China?). Isn't that suffering? You can't possibly say that maybe they enjoy living like that? We see very well animals living like that, struggling to survive each day and only concerned about reproducing. Aren't humans above that? Or at least supposed to be above that?

 

Ugh, unless you can come up with a better way to reproduce, we'll stick with intercourse. The majority of the world is in poverty for a reason. I also feel pain when I see such things. Humans are above that, yes.

[aSoldier]

It is completely illogic for a God most powerful that created EVERYTHING that exists to ask us stupid little meaningless mortal humans to go and spread his word, in a world HE created.

 

Imagine yourself playing SimCity and asking the residents of your town to go and tell themselves "Hey, the guy that plays the game and controls us is totally cool" .. I mean isn't this a lack of self esteem?

 

Why would God do such a thing? Unless..... Unless he is NOT the only God... and it is a competition between many Gods like the ancient greeks (and most ancient people) used to believe. That would make sense

 

Spreading the word is a sign of your love and faithfullness to God. The fact that you, and everyone else in this forum has negative aspects of God, shows that you haven't grasped the true essence of God. That is why you are constantly asking questions that you don't understand.

 

& the whole "multiple Gods" thing would not make sense to me

Edited December 2, 2005 by sSebB

[Sasun]

The God you describe sounds like the most idiotic, helpless, useless, and worthless God ever. He can create time, the whole universe and man and woman and all that, but can't keep people from doing evil? Oh paaaaaaaaaalease ... that kind of a God is insult to all Gods.

 

Because either God can't prevent people from doing bad things, OR God likes to sit back and watch people do either good things or bad things. In the first case, he is useless. In the second case, he is just downright MEAN and sadistic. Either way, I can't see why anyone would pride themselves in believing in such a thing.

Oh, Sip, how arrogant you sound here. Indeed, so the creator of the universe, of which the cumulative human knowledge has not even discovered is tiny little bit, is idiotic? So then you must be smarter than God I guess?

 

How about neither one of your primitive assumptions is correct? Why not admit that you don't understand God rather than belittle God?

[Sasun]

sSebB, I'm not talking about common criminals who steal and murder (even though it is also evil)

 

When I say that the world is evil, I mean that how the world is made up that it is evil. Let's take a look at simple biology: microorganisms get eaten by bigger organisms, these in turn get eaten by smaller fish, smaller fish get eaten by bigger fish, fish in turn are eaten by birds, etc. Everyone and everything on these world survives at the expense of the other. A good-hearted God who is all-powerful surely could have come up with a better way for life to exist.

 

And we know very well that this doesn't just apply to the food chain. Look at the Iraqi war. A perfect example of bigger fish eating smaller fish. Iraq obviously has something that the US government wants for its own well-being and thought it was worth to go to war for... Genocides... why do genocides happen? Why did the Armenian genocide happen? Armenians were obviously a threat to the Turkish eyes for these monsters to believe that the only way they could ensure their future was to wipe out an entire population from the face of this earth... To be honest, as as Armenian just knowing of the genocide and of the great injustices that the Armenians have suffered throughout our history is enough for me to believe that there is no God.

Anoushik, originally we were created in the image of God. We used to be capable of reproducing without sex, in a divine way, by sheer will power, exacly as God creates. However, we gave in to temptations and sensual pleasures, and lost our divine ability, devoloped sex organs, and found ourselves in the evolutionary chain of animal kingdom reproducing and behaving like animals. But we still have the potential of recovering our divine image and freeing ourselves from animial kingdom. The only way to do is spiritual practice and God-contact.

[Sip]

Oh, Sip, how arrogant you sound here. Indeed, so the creator of the universe, of which the cumulative human knowledge has not even discovered is tiny little bit, is idiotic? So then you must be smarter than God I guess?

 

How about neither one of your primitive assumptions is correct? Why not admit that you don't understand God rather than belittle God?

 

Sasun, for the record, I am belittleing the idiotic God put forth by SsebB. The same God that can't spread his own words and we have to do it for him. The same God that is going to judge us for things he can't (limited) or won't (sadistic) keep us from doing. The same LIMITED, yes that right, I said LIMITED, helpless God that created an imperfect world with imperfect people in his own imperfect image.

 

Do I really sound arrogant here or is there really something fishy about that particular God? I am absolutely convinced it's the latter and if that makes me sound arrogant, so be it. Dear Sasun, some notions are just downright stupid and this one is one of them. Just because it is disguised under the label of "God", does not make it any more valid.

 

I have not made any assumptions about this particular God. I am just going by what I am being told about Him. So I think your gripe is with those assumptions and not mine. And if you are only going to tell me there is puprose behind all this madness that I couldn't possibly understand this particular God, then I say that's just a very weak and convenient argument, isn't it?

Edited December 2, 2005 by Sip

[Sasun]

Sasun, for the record, I am belittleing the idiotic God put forth by SsebB. The same God that can't spread his own words and we have to do it for him. The same God that is going to judge us for things he can't (limited) or won't (sadistic) keep us from doing. The same LIMITED, yes that right, I said LIMITED, helpless God that created an imperfect world with imperfect people in his own imperfect image.

 

Do I really sound arrogant here or is there really something fishy about that particular God? I am absolutely convinced it's the latter and if that makes me sound arrogant, so be it. Dear Sasun, some notions are just downright stupid and this one is one of them. Just because it is disguised under the label of "God", does not make it any more valid.

 

I have not made any assumptions about this particular God. I am just going by what I am being told about Him. So I think your gripe is with those assumptions and not mine. And if you are only going to tell me there is puprose behind all this madness that I couldn't possibly understand this particular God, then I say that's just a very weak and convenient argument, isn't it?

Sip, from what I can tell in this thread, Seb is actually not saying what you are saying. It is your interpretation of what he is saying. I am not trying to defend everything that Seb is saying, but I agree with his answer that we have free will therefore we can do evil and God is not responsible for our acts.

But that is not the point. The point is there are so many insights about God, not primitive such as those expressed in this forum. Apparently you have not enough interest in this subject, and naturally you don't know. However, you chose to limit the possible explanations of God to just what you think are the only possible explanations told to you. And that is what I find an arrogant way of saying. I am not saying you are an arrogant person, but your statements are IMO. Also, a statement such "there is something fishy about God" is quite arrogant, which assumes you know a lot of things to conclude that. How about "there is something mysterious about God, let me try to understand after all why a God who creates atoms, planets, and very interesting laws of physics in such a neat way is unable to prevent us from doing evil?" (or ".... is unwilling to prevent us from doing evil" and many such inquiries rather than conclusions and condemnations based on those). I am not saying you must think this way, I am just placing a more mature and a less arrogant idea in front of you so you might perhaps compare to your ideas.

Edited December 2, 2005 by Sasun