Buddha

[aSoldier]

@Sasun: So if we follow your definition of a true christian.. It doesn't exist does it?

 

@Sseb: How is it possible to laugh at people because they believe in the Big Bang and at the same time dare say : I believe God created men and we were thrown out of Heaven because of Eve's sin...

 

You believe Jesus walked on water, that Jesus made miracles and raised people from the dead (you've seen it?) but you don't believe that the Universe was created by what we call the Big Bang, you don't believe i suppose in the existence of life on other planets.

You believe in the writings of a book but you don't believe in Science? How weird.

Also how come many great scientists were christians and believed in God?

 

What is YOUR purpose? Why are you here on earth? To blindly follow something just to go to Heaven or Hell?

 

I ask all of you good christians out there.. Is it possible to have faith and believe in God without having to follow blindly everything written in the Bible, without living in the fear of God and Hell? And be considered as a "good" person? If not, then i am happy to be an Alien

 

I have nothing to envy to the Good perfect christian. In fact I could even consider myself better, because at least I am OPEN minded.

 

I laugh at the Big Bang, not at the people.

 

You're stating that I should believe in both Jesus and the Big Bang? No, you cannot believe in both. There is a universe, galaxies, planets, etc. but only God made it.

 

The writings of a book is what 5 billion people believe in (that includes other religions equivalent of the Bible). Are you daring to say that 83% of the world is living in vain? Science does not contradict God, so maybe that's why some great scientists are christians.

 

My purpose is between me and God. There is no 'blind' following going on here. It's called faith.

 

The fact that you think we blindly follow the Bible in fear of God and hell is ignorant in itself. Clearly you do not read the Bible and have but a vague idea of what it teaches.

 

Only after you give your life to Christ will you realise what I'm talking about. I once lived the life you live, but I know I won't ever return to it; that is my choice.

 

And no, you're no better than anyone. We are all equal.

[Eloren]

I have read the Bible, and i once lived the life YOU lived also (but how do you know the life i live?)

 

But now, i have faith still but i refuse to follow what the clergy says, what the Bible dictates.. I have free will and live as i please, in sin or not. That is my choice and maybe i will get judged at the end...

 

About the Bible being most reas and 83% of believers.. well.. Millions used also to believe that the Earth was FLAT .. Millions used to believe that we came directly from Adam and Eve (what about prehistoric men?).

 

Finally, i know i am not better than anyone. No one is.. But unfortunately, some people with "too much" faith believe they are better than someone who does not believe. And you cannot deny that

Edited November 27, 2005 by Eloren

[Anahit]

But the tragic fact is that that a lot of churches and missionaries resort to frightening in order to convert people. It is better to be an atheist than believe out of fear.

 

YES, SASUN! u r more than right here! and imagine how i feel, cause many of them (christians) have been trying THAT on me! THIS really can become very annoying!

[Vanetsi]

well.. Millions used also to believe that the Earth was round..

 

I hate to break it to you, but the earth is round.

[Azat]

can you please give me a bit more info on how you got the 5 billion believers figure from? China has over a billion people, India as well and there are close to a billion people out there who are Muslims and non of those faiths believe in the creation as written in the bible.

 

also the Bible was written about 4 centuries after Christ. can you please point me to a book or to some source that talks about the virgin birth or the creation of the universe by God prior to the bible. I'm ready to learn.

 

---

 

he meant to say that earth was flat

Edited November 27, 2005 by Azat

[Eloren]

I hate to break it to you, but the earth is round.

 

Why whatever!!! The Earth was FLAT !...

 

*hides with shame*

[Sip]

The writings of a book is what 5 billion people believe in (that includes other religions equivalent of the Bible). Are you daring to say that 83% of the world is living in vain? Science does not contradict God, so maybe that's why some great scientists are christians.

 

Do you want me to count how many kids believe in Santa? Don't tell me you believe in Santa too

[Arpa]

Do you want me to count how many kids believe in Santa? Don't tell me you believe in Santa too

I have not read everything above.

Sip, you surprise me.

You mean to say that you don't believe in Santa?

How about Santa Monica, Santa Clara, and Santa Maria?

You do realize that the the latter "ship" is one of the "trinity", along with the Nina, the Pinta that made it possible for you to post from Santa Minnesota. What? Were all those ships female? Now you're gonna tell me that they all sailed from the Island pf Lesbos? !! :)

 

And... what about Santa Anahita?!!

 

SHAME ON YOU!!

 

Santa Klaus is alive and "Kicking" Kids in the "K-nee" at Kilene's Basement. , I meant Filene's

Edited November 27, 2005 by Arpa

[DominO123]

I laugh at the Big Bang, not at the people.

 

You're stating that I should believe in both Jesus and the Big Bang? No, you cannot believe in both. There is a universe, galaxies, planets, etc. but only God made it.

 

The writings of a book is what 5 billion people believe in (that includes other religions equivalent of the Bible). Are you daring to say that 83% of the world is living in vain? Science does not contradict God, so maybe that's why some great scientists are christians.

 

My purpose is between me and God. There is no 'blind' following going on here. It's called faith.

 

The fact that you think we blindly follow the Bible in fear of God and hell is ignorant in itself. Clearly you do not read the Bible and have but a vague idea of what it teaches.

 

Only after you give your life to Christ will you realise what I'm talking about. I once lived the life you live, but I know I won't ever return to it; that is my choice.

 

And no, you're no better than anyone. We are all equal.

 

How dare you.

 

Isen't it amazing that a religious individual reject the very same theory of physic that was first cointed by religious people to trplace the other theories which claimed that the universe has no starting, neither ending point?

 

Dear you, if big bang there was not, it will be in contradiction to the Bible.

 

BTW, I don't believe ina big bang that created everything, that's religious conspiration by those that claim the Universe was created by only on thing(a god).

 

Convert to Fadixianism and save your sole before it's too late.

[DominO123]

Do you want me to count how many kids believe in Santa? Don't tell me you believe in Santa too

 

Well, Santa exist in the universe of those that believes in him.

[vava]

I am saying what I said before: it is better to be an atheist than believe (or subscribe to a religion) out of fear.

 

Sasun - I don't always agree with your views on religion, although I do find that we have much common ground in our philophies. Here is an example such common - I fully agree with you that belief through fear-mongering thoroughly misses the point.

[Anoushik]

It means to be truly devoted to ones religion and the teachings of the scriptures of that religion - not in letter but in spirit and true meaning. It means not to be a hypocrit, not a ceremonial church or temple goer and who sermonizes things that he/she does not actually practice. It also means that one recognizes his/her moral shortomings and really makes effort to change his/her nature towards good. Also, someone who is not attached to dogmas, someone who respects other people's beliefs and practices, someone who helps fellow human beings by all means that he/she can, someone who does not look down to anyone but is serviceful towards all, etc... I could add more stuff but I think you get the idea. This is my understanding. I bet someone will disagree.

Well, I guess I just wasn't sure about what you meant by "sincerely" religious. My understanding is that one is either religious or one is not religious. There is no in-between, such as going to Church but not practicing what one's religion preaches. But that's how most people have been, in the past and in the present. Most people claiming to be religious are hypocrites.

[Anoushik]

lol why not?

I'd rather die than be an atheist.

You can't really say that because you have no concept about what it means to live without believing in God. If you had that concept you'd also be an atheist.

 

By the way, what the hell are you on earth for?

[aSoldier]

I have read the Bible, and i once lived the life YOU lived also (but how do you know the life i live?)

 

But now, i have faith still but i refuse to follow what the clergy says, what the Bible dictates.. I have free will and live as i please, in sin or not. That is my choice and maybe i will get judged at the end...

 

About the Bible being most reas and 83% of believers.. well.. Millions used also to believe that the Earth was FLAT .. Millions used to believe that we came directly from Adam and Eve (what about prehistoric men?).

 

Finally, i know i am not better than anyone. No one is.. But unfortunately, some people with "too much" faith believe they are better than someone who does not believe. And you cannot deny that

The fact that you reject what I'm saying gives me an idea, but I could be wrong

 

The Bible dictates nothing. Free will is not something you gave yourself. God gave it to you.

 

No, I said 83% of the world has a religion that has a book by which they abide to. Only about 43% of the world is Christian.

 

Can you prove there's no God? There is great proof that there is a God, both physically and spiritually. People with "too much" faith that believe they're better than non-believers are the Christians that give us a bad name. That is partially why people are turning away from Christianity.

Edited November 28, 2005 by sSebB

[aSoldier]

You can't really say that because you have no concept about what it means to live without believing in God. If you had that concept you'd also be an atheist.

 

By the way, what the hell are you on earth for?

 

Actually, I lived without believing in God for a while, and my world was falling apart. That's why I stated 'I would rather die than be an athiest' because I hated my previous life and don't want to go back to it.

 

I answered that question already.

Edited November 28, 2005 by sSebB

[Anoushik]

sSebB, I saw this before asking my question.

My purpose is between me and God.

So, is this your answer or am I mistaken?

There is great proof that there is a God, both physically and spiritually.

Really, I'd like to know about some of these.

[Azat]

sSebB just so you know/understand how logic works: one does not prove nothing one proves something. so your request for us to prove there is no God does not make sense. The proof that is needed to be made is if there is a God. I have stated before that the day anyone can prove to me that there is a God with a video or something I'm going to become the most incredible Christian in the world. Until than i'm not going to believe in some fairy tale of some old white bearded men in the clouds watching everything that i do.

 

Also because 83% believe in some religion does not make it true.

[Sasun]

OK folks, because this is a Buddhism thread, and also much talk goes on Christianity, let me say something relevant

 

If you asked me who is Buddha, I would say Buddha is a very great spiritual Master, a Savior like Jesus Christ.

 

I have recently read a book by a Buddhist master named Thich Nhat Hanh, and am recommending it to read to anyone who is, or would like to be, open minded and thinks across religions rather than is incapsulated in one religion. Often learning other religions helps one understand your own religion better. That has been my case in particular, after being exposed to eastern religions I realized how useless and counter-productive some of the Christian dogmas are, and how the actual truths coming from Jesus Christ have been hidden because of such dogmas. Some other time I will discuss that in detail...

But for now, I recommend to read this book, Going Home : Jesus and Buddha as Brothers

[Sasun]

There are many striking similarities in Jesus's and Buddha's sayings. Here is another book to read, this time by a Christian scholar Markus J. Borg, Jesus and Buddha: The Parallel Sayings . This book puts similar sayings side by side, you be the judge.

 

By the way, like Jesus Buddha was also born immaculately.

Edited November 28, 2005 by Sasun

[aSoldier]

sSebB just so you know/understand how logic works: one does not prove nothing one proves something. so your request for us to prove there is no God does not make sense. The proof that is needed to be made is if there is a God. I have stated before that the day anyone can prove to me that there is a God with a video or something I'm going to become the most incredible Christian in the world. Until than i'm not going to believe in some fairy tale of some old white bearded men in the clouds watching everything that i do.

 

Also because 83% believe in some religion does not make it true.

 

white bearded man

 

I'm amazed that you have such a mentality. Where's your faith? God only appears to those who believe in him.

 

The fact that 83% believe in some religion should tell you something. Why do so many people think there is a greater power while atheists don't? Surely, all these believers aren't a bunch of naive people who don't know what they're doing?!

 

2 Corinthians 5:7

We walk by faith, not by sight.

Edited November 28, 2005 by sSebB

[DominO123]

sSebB just so you know/understand how logic works: one does not prove nothing one proves something. so your request for us to prove there is no God does not make sense. The proof that is needed to be made is if there is a God. I have stated before that the day anyone can prove to me that there is a God with a video or something I'm going to become the most incredible Christian in the world. Until than i'm not going to believe in some fairy tale of some old white bearded men in the clouds watching everything that i do.

 

Also because 83% believe in some religion does not make it true.

 

If one day one proves a god exist, it still won't make Christianity valid.

 

BTW, atheism is a religion.

 

Choose either nontheism or agnosticism, or those or Fadixism.

Those aren't religions.

[Azat]

The fact that 83% believe in some religion should tell you something. Why do so many people think there is a greater power while atheists don't? Surely, all these believers aren't a bunch of naive people who don't know what they're doing?!

More than 83% of the people in the US eat at McDonald's. Surely you cant tell me that McDonalds is good food? Once again I state that just because 83% believe in something does not make it right, furthermore much of the 83% contradict one another in terms of what they believe, and there have been many studies that people who are religious have lower IQ, have less money and are less educated than those who are not. I rather be part of the other group.

 

Norman Poythress studie showed that the mean SATs for strongly antireligious (1148), moderately anti-religious (1119), slightly antireligious (1108), and religious (1022).

Edited November 28, 2005 by Azat

[DominO123]

More than 83% of the people in the US eat at McDonald's. Surely you cant tell me that McDonalds is good food? Once again I state that just because 83% believe in something does not make it right, furthermore much of the 83% contradict one another in terms of what they believe, and there have been many studies that people who are religious have lower IQ, have less money and are less educated than those who are not. I rather be part of the other group.

 

Norman Poythress studie showed that the mean SATs for strongly antireligious (1148), moderately anti-religious (1119), slightly antireligious (1108), and religious (1022).

 

Azat, be cautious to not fall in the same level as religious fanatics.

 

Poythress study is far from making any points. We have no idea of the variability of each cathegories but I will tend to believe that the same study can be interprated in many ways.

 

First, in the religious group, it will be logical to expect that SAT tests will be the most variable, because those with the lowest IQ range will have more tendency to be religious(I use the same definition of religion as the one conducting the study, but I disagree with it), when I say lowest, I mean those under a 950 in the SAT test. While this seems to be as if I agree with the conclusion, I don't. I haven't found the study, but it will be interesting to know how many are in 80 and over percentile in each groups, this will be much more telling than dumping all of them with eachothers.

 

Also, it is to be expected that those that are the smartest will be the quickest to not affiliate themselve with any religion in such polls while they may believe in things themselves. Carl Sagan who litheraly founded modern "skepticism" had pantheist tendencies, like Einstein and others. Many who are considered the great minds in history had tendency to have personal beliefs rather than adherent to an organized church, yet they had their own personal "religions." People tend to call religion, only those who adhere to an official church, or separate atheism from the rest of the bunch.

 

Also, anti-religious, doesn't mean that much anyway, it might, and probably mean, that more intelligent people are more critical about things than others are, but this in no way answer to the premiss about wherever or not there is a god.

 

It is true though, scientists are mostly non-religious, but it is also not surprising that while scientific knowledge increased, the only group of scientists(even though mathematic is not a science in the proper sense) that the proportion of those that calls themselves religious was left constant are mathematicians, which is the domain of language of science, the purest of all. Not surprising because the basic notion is methaphycal, but yet, the only discpline we can really prove things which we are sure will never ever be challenged. We can interprate this the way we want.

 

Science only deals with things which are falsifiable, the the existance of a god is not falsifiable, so someone can be the smartest human on Earth and be the most analytic of all, and being the best follower of scientific methodology, he just can't follow the end point, which is a conclusion, when the thing he is trying to study is not falsifiable. In such a cases, I will tend to believe that the smartest scientists, the less arrogants do not take position.

 

Azat, you'd be surprised to hear all the weird beliefs those in MENSA clubs have, yet they are critical of organized religion, now those that will not be critical of the belief of one, among them, you'll probably find the less intelligents.

Edited November 28, 2005 by QueBeceR

[Sip]

The fact that 83% believe in some religion should tell you something.

 

Yes ... it tells me there is hope for at least 17% of the people in that they can hopefully think outside the box.

[DominO123]

Yes ... it tells me there is hope for at least 17% of the people in that they can hopefully think outside the box.

 

I'm more interested to know how many thinks outside a box.