Buddha

[Azat]

I tried for several pages to get that point accross but it just didn't work. As they say (at least the barska-hays), Seb is riding his own Esh

or the esh might be riding Seb

[aSoldier]

Seb jan, by responding so you have just shown that you've entirely missed Sasun's point (which is a very well timed and appropriate post, if I may.) What he just said is that, well, it's not.

 

I have understood the post, but thanks for trying to tell me otherwise.

 

Opinion is one thing, fact is another.

[aSoldier]

or the esh might be riding Seb

 

No need to insult me.

[aSoldier]

I tried for several pages to get that point accross but it just didn't work. As they say (at least the barska-hays), Seb is riding his own Esh

 

Your "point" that you've tried to get across, is that there is no God. I'm sorry but some people don't believe what you do. Accept it.

[Sip]

Your "point" that you've tried to get across, is that there is no God.

 

I'm talking about what Zartonk was also saying ... the point that you and Sasun are saying different things yet you think you agree with him.

 

 

I'm sorry but some people don't believe what you do. Accept it.

 

Wow, couldn't have said it better myself.

[aSoldier]

I'm talking about what Zartonk was also saying ... the point that you and Sasun are saying different things yet you think you agree with him.

 

I told you twice that the main idea is the same. With that I agree with him.

[Anoushik]

Here is my opinion: people who do good and are not outwardly religious are intuitively religious and perhaps don't know about it, while those who do not practice what they preach are not truly religious. And those who do good just to go to heaven are in a way selfish yet they are better than those who care neither about fellow humans nor about heaven.

But why? How can you agree with the inequality of "blessings" (for the lack of better term, because, it turns out that moral people are blessed and the immoral are not). I pity the people who have no faith in humanity, have no understanding of what morality is, and have never simply done good without expecting anything in return. Why the injustice towards those pityful beings?

Edited December 19, 2005 by anoushik

[Sasun]

But why? How can you agree with the inequality of "blessings" (for the lack of better term, because, it turns out that moral people are blessed and the immoral are not). I pity the people who have no faith in humanity, have no understanding of what morality is, and have never simply done good without expecting anything in return. Why the injustice towards those pityful beings?

Eh, Anoushik, I already told you We were blessed equally in the beginning, but right now we are all different because of Karma. We have changed ourselves with our choices in many past lives.

[Anoushik]

You know it Sasun, your belief doesn't make sense It's an endless cycle...

[Sasun]

You know it Sasun, your belief doesn't make sense It's an endless cycle...

How so?

[Zartonk]

Opinion is one thing, fact is another.

 

Precisely.

[Anoushik]

How so?

How so? Well... let's see. A person is fortunate or not because of Karma, and the goal of the person is to lead such honorable and moral life so that the person can have better karma in the future. Too bad that the person ends up in similar situation/environment and repeats same mistakes as in his past existences... thus, it's an endless cycle, the person does not move ahead to a better existence, but remains in the same place in eternity.

 

Where is the role of God if you believe in Karma?

 

And also, (as an example) what did Paris Hilton do in her previous existence to deserve such a lavish life, and if Karma works why doesn't she even better herself?

[Sip]

Where is the role of God if you believe in Karma?

 

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeexactry! The entire notion of Karma is completely against this notion of an almighty God. I'm sure Sasun will again try to hand waive and explain but you just can't have it both ways. Either there is an almighty God that did all the stuff in the Bible (ala Christianity), or there isn't. This maybe yah there's a God but yah there's also Karma and then there's 3 world which we die into and sometimes we stay there and sometimes we come back all sounds fancy and good, but it is not Christianity.

 

Which again brings me to the point about how sSebB's truth and Sasun's truth pretty much don't sync up and we now have at least two Truths.

[Sasun]

How so? Well... let's see. A person is fortunate or not because of Karma, and the goal of the person is to lead such honorable and moral life so that the person can have better karma in the future. Too bad that the person ends up in similar situation/environment and repeats same mistakes as in his past existences... thus, it's an endless cycle, the person does not move ahead to a better existence, but remains in the same place in eternity.

 

Where is the role of God if you believe in Karma?

 

And also, (as an example) what did Paris Hilton do in her previous existence to deserve such a lavish life, and if Karma works why doesn't she even better herself?

Where is the role of God? The law of Karma is created by God, there is the role of God. It is a fair and just system. You always have a chance to improve your life, so I don't understand why you say it does not make sense. It makes a lot of sense. You don't like it because in your personal conception you expect God to force everyone to be good and nice and the world be perfect. But please don't say that the law of Karma does not make sense because it does. Everyone wishes fairness and justice towards themselves, and for that reason precicely Karma makes perfect sense. Even in one life you can see the results by changing your bad habits to good ones, you really can see the results on yourself. Isn't it good and fair that you work hard and see the results? Like I said, Karma is nothing more than an application of the law of cause and effect, a law that is universally applicable and you just can't miss to see it.

 

As to Paris Hilton, I don't know what she did in her previous lives. Karma does not imply that you would better yourself, it just pays you what you have earned, that's it. It is up to you to improve yourself.

Edited December 20, 2005 by Sasun

[Sasun]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeexactry! The entire notion of Karma is completely against this notion of an almighty God. I'm sure Sasun will again try to hand waive and explain but you just can't have it both ways. Either there is an almighty God that did all the stuff in the Bible (ala Christianity), or there isn't. This maybe yah there's a God but yah there's also Karma and then there's 3 world which we die into and sometimes we stay there and sometimes we come back all sounds fancy and good, but it is not Christianity.

 

Which again brings me to the point about how sSebB's truth and Sasun's truth pretty much don't sync up and we now have at least two Truths.

You just don't want to think outside of the box. Have you asked yourself why an almighty God could not create the law of Karma? Is it impossible?

What Karma does is the almighty God acting indirectly and impersonally. But no, in your conception it can't be, because you have made up your mind that you know what Bible says, and you know that Karma is against the notion of God.

[Sasun]

Here is a passage from the Bible (Gospel by Mark) that in essence says the same thing as the law of Karma. Basically, what you say, do, think and intend affects you. In other words, what you are is the result of your past actions, thoughts, intentions and verbal statements.

 

Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

.....................

And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Edited December 20, 2005 by Sasun

[Sasun]

Here is a plain reference to reincarnation in the Bible, by Jesus himself. So we read in the Gospel by Mathew 11.

 

7: And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

8: But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

9: But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

10: For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

11: Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

12: And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

13: For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

14: And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

15: He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

So, acording to Jesus, Elias the prophet from the past had come again in this life as John the Baptist. How else should one describe a reincarnation? It is very simple and plain, yet the Christian churches reject the idea of reincarnation. Then what is this if not reincarnation?

I remember reading in other places of the Bible such references that a certain prophet would come. So it seems that the Jews in those eras had some idea of reincarnation even though they didn't go into detail in their scriptures, perhaps it was not a popular widely known concept. But Jesus certainly knew of reincarnation, including his own prophesied reincarnation.