aSoldier Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 No but I think people like sSebB misunderstand you. He maintains a position that there is a LOT of evidence of God etc. But you acknowledged you just believe without evidence. I just wanted that to be crystal clear ... he thinks he agrees with you but in fact he does not. If you are implying that I believe in God only because of physical evidence, you could not be further from the truth. I only brought up the physical evidence because you continually asked for it. I believe in God through faith. I agree with what Sasun says, we have the same ideology of God and Christianity. However, there are some minor topics that I see differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 I have no doubt that prayer and meditation "work". But in my experience, many people have unreasonable expectations from what prayer and meditation can do and their reasons for doing so. I often find it extremely hillarious that people ask other people to pray for some random person to get well or to pull through some hardship. That is a false expectation ... what it does do however is make the person asking for the prayers to somehow feel better and have a more positive outlook. THAT is what makes for positive change, NOT the prayer itself. Similarly, an internal prayer (of a self) or meditation to feel more at ease, more at peace, etc, is perfectly valid in my opinion. Again, not because of the prayer itself, but the impact it has on those who believe it is going to help them somehow. If I understand correctly you are talking about power of suggestion. It works sometimes, but prayer too works. For example, if we sincerely pray for others' well-being it will work even though they are not aware and therefore could not use the power of suggestion. This happens because when we pray we send healing energy, God is not directly involved in such a prayer even though we are using His healing energy. But one can also pray to God directly though this is more difficult IMO. That is why many people's prayers are left unanswered, specially when these are selfish prayers for wealth and luxuries. As to meditation, here in the West people can call all things meditation. Like Hatha Yoga, which is just bodily Yoga has become the only known form of Yoga. There are farm more superior forms of Yoga that people don't know here. The purpose of meditation is not to become calm and peaceful, but to quiet the senses and thoughts in order to get subtle vibrations of the soul. We don't know that we have souls because we are too engrossed in senses. Senses and thoughts are coarse, vilolent vibrations compared to the soul's subtle vibrations. As a result the latter are simply buried under senses and thoughts. Calmness and peace are only side effects, not the goal of meditation. This is an explanation in a nutshell, it is a whole separate science. Just wanted to clarify. P.S. By the way, there have been some interesting research and experiments on prayer pointing that prayer does work. I will post about these some other time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 If you are implying that I believe in God only because of physical evidence, you could not be further from the truth. I only brought up the physical evidence because you continually asked for it. I believe in God through faith. I agree with what Sasun says, we have the same ideology of God and Christianity. However, there are some minor topics that I see differently. Yeah, for example, I believe in hell as planets, you believe just one hell without specifying what it is. But we still believe that there is a hell where one can go for reasons that we both agree what they are, maybe not in all cases but largely we agree. I believe that we have three bodies, I don't know what is your point of view, but let's say you don't believe in that. Whether we have three bodies or not has no bearing on our spiritual practices, we still have faith in God and believe that we should do good just the same way. Basically our differences are like these... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Սասուն: Շատ ճիշդ մեկնաբանութիւն է ըրածդ հոս, եւ նաեւ ճիշդ կը խոսիս: Shnorhakal em Janik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 (edited) Shnorhakal em Janik Charjer, you are welcomed. Edited December 11, 2005 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 I agree with what Sasun says, we have the same ideology of God and Christianity. However, there are some minor topics that I see differently. Minor? Have you read anything Sasun has said? Just because he uses the word "God", you get all warm and fuzzy. He is using the term a LOT more loosely than you do. A LOT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 (edited) Yes, but you cannot say that ugliness is the source of beauty. Ugliness makes you realize that there is a beauty, but doesn't explain where beauty comes from. Where does ugliness come from, and how do you explain that there is much more ugliness in the world than beauty? Edited December 11, 2005 by anoushik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Minor? Have you read anything Sasun has said? Just because he uses the word "God", you get all warm and fuzzy. He is using the term a LOT more loosely than you do. A LOT! Yes, minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 this thread sucks and is boring. and for everyones information. i did not pray to any god last night but i did drink some good jesus blood in the form of 2002 cabs and also 2003 oregon pinot. yammmmiiii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armjan Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 (edited) Where does ugliness come from, and how do you explain that there is much more ugliness in the world than beauty? where does it come from? lack of symmetry, unhealthiness, ??? it's the delta(relative difference) that counts if there were only ugly ppl in the world, we would consider a set to be beautiful relative to rest. lower your standard for beautiful and you'll c it aint that bad, there are a lot of nice ppl out there, lesson learned from my dating days. speaking of getting laid, do primates find each other more or less attractive? i mean other than noticing the size and color of things, I wonder if they have degrees of attractivness. Why do we have it and they don't? Edited December 11, 2005 by armjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanetsi Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Hmm maybe they do. Here's an interesting fact: dolphins are the only other animals that have sex for pleasure. The other of course being humans. It's known that animals are attracted to the opposite sex instinctively. For example, men are attracted to the hourglass figure because our insticts tell us that means fertility ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 (edited) For example, men are attracted to the hourglass figure because our insticts tell us that means fertility ;-) Vanetsi Yeghpayr: It's interesting. Also men love girls/women to be in gym clothes and athletic looking I have noticed, as healthy looks reminds men of fertility as well; and thus being able to bear children. Edited December 11, 2005 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Yeghpayr...you are a beirutsihye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanetsi Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Yeghpayr...you are a beirutsihye? My friend, we come from many places but we are all Armenian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 My friend, we come from many places but we are all Armenian I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Where does ugliness come from... Tell me where beauty comes from and I will tell you where ugliness comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Tell me where beauty comes from and I will tell you where ugliness comes from. That was her point I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 (edited) Here are some very similar sayings by Buddha and Jesus Christ. These similarities signify that the Truth is one, and both Jesus and Buddha were that Truth in different times, languages and cultures. Jesus "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends." John 15:12-13 Buddha "Just as a mother would protect her only child at the risk of her onw life, even so, cultivate a boundless heart towards all beings. Let your thoughts of boundless love pervade the whole world." Sutta Nipata I49-I50 Jesus "Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me." Matthew 25:45 Buddha "If you do not tend one another, then who is there to tend you? Whoever would tend me, he should tend the sick." Vinaya, Mahavagga 8.26.3 Jesus "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. From onyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again." Luke 6:27-30 Buddha "Hatreds do not ever cease in this world by hating, but by love; this is an eternal truth... Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good. Overcome the miser by giving, overcome the liar by truth." Dhammapada I.5 & I7.3 Edited December 16, 2005 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Here are some very similar sayings by Buddha and Jesus Christ. These similarities signify that the Truth is one, and both Jesus and Buddha were that Truth in different times, languages and cultures. Jesus "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends." John 15:12-13 Buddha "Just as a mother would protect her only child at the risk of her onw life, even so, cultivate a boundless heart towards all beings. Let your thoughts of boundless love pervade the whole world." Sutta Nipata I49-I50 Jesus "Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me." Matthew 25:45 Buddha "If you do not tend one another, then who is there to tend you? Whoever would tend me, he should tend the sick." Vinaya, Mahavagga 8.26.3 Jesus "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. From onyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away your goods, do not ask for them again." Luke 6:27-30 Buddha "Hatreds do not ever cease in this world by hating, but by love; this is an eternal truth... Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good. Overcome the miser by giving, overcome the liar by truth." Dhammapada I.5 & I7.3 Very similar indeed. I am sure this will trigger the question: "So why is Christianity the one and only truth?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Very similar indeed. I am sure this will trigger the question: "So why is Christianity the one and only truth?" Go back a few levels. Is Christianity the truth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Go back a few levels. Is Christianity the truth? Not to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Here are some very similar sayings by Buddha and Jesus Christ. These similarities signify that the Truth is one, and both Jesus and Buddha were that Truth in different times, languages and cultures... This part is what I love about religion. It's love of humanity. But Sasun (and I think we've had this discussion before) why is it that some people are born with faith in humanity and exercise that Golden Rule all their lives without being much religious (or not religious at all), and other people do it because they want to earn bonus points to go to Heaven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 This part is what I love about religion. It's love of humanity. But Sasun (and I think we've had this discussion before) why is it that some people are born with faith in humanity and exercise that Golden Rule all their lives without being much religious (or not religious at all), and other people do it because they want to earn bonus points to go to Heaven? Here is my opinion: people who do good and are not outwardly religious are intuitively religious and perhaps don't know about it, while those who do not practice what they preach are not truly religious. And those who do good just to go to heaven are in a way selfish yet they are better than those who care neither about fellow humans nor about heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 (edited) Very similar indeed. I am sure this will trigger the question: "So why is Christianity the one and only truth?" Seb jan, by responding so you have just shown that you've entirely missed Sasun's point (which is a very well timed and appropriate post, if I may.) What he just said is that, well, it's not. On the subject, again as pointed previousley by Sasun, I recommend the writings of Vietnamese monk/poet/diplomat, Thich Nhat Hanh, in focus Living Buddha, Living Christ and Going Home: Jesus and Buddha as brothers. Just to share my share on what the discussion is revolving around, I think the phenomena reffered to is not religion. To me, the good dees of man and the intercultural parallels of wisdom and truth are somewhat like intuitive reclallings. the only thing religion has done to it is muddy the clarity and create foolish seperation. P.S. : I would like to thank the moderators for the new description of this topic... Edited December 18, 2005 by Zartonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Seb jan, by responding so you have just shown that you've entirely missed Sasun's point (which is a very well timed and appropriate post, if I may.) What he just said is that, well, it's not. I tried for several pages to get that point accross but it just didn't work. As they say (at least the barska-hays), Seb is riding his own Esh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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