Anoushik Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Before you throw around words like "immature", first look at yourself. God has to constantly intervene into your life 24 hours a day to stop all bad things happening for you to believe he exists. Is that a mature attitude towards God? I don't believe in God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 I don't believe in God My point exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 sSebB, what sucks for you religious people is that us non religious types can't pray for you to one day hopefully see the light and realize the truth So that's why I believe you that you'll probably be stuck in your mindset forever. I second that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 My point exactly. What's your point? PS. You never answered my question about what is the Bible. Any thoughts, beliefs, knowledge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) What's your point? PS. You never answered my question about what is the Bible. Any thoughts, beliefs, knowledge? My point is that, if there was a God, he would have to stop all bad things happening in the world for you to actually believe in Him. It hasn't. That's why you don't believe in Him. The Bible is the Christian doctrine which records the lives of major figures, such as Jesus, by which Christians follow and read to build their relationship with God. Edited December 8, 2005 by sSebB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 My point is that, if there was a God, he would have to stop all bad things happening in the world for you to actually believe in Him. It hasn't. That's why you don't believe in Him. Exactly The Bible is the Christian doctrine by which Christians follow and read to build their relationship with God and seek his kingdom. Who wrote the Bible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 The truth is something you must seek. You believe you have found it in something. I believe I have found it in Jesus Christ. The truth will be revealed when we die, so until then, I'll live my life in accordance with God. You live your life in accordance with your realization. Sound good? Now we're getting somewhere! This is probably the most intelligent and most Christian thing you have said this whole time. Although I don't think anything will be revealed when we die, but that's besides the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Who wrote the Bible? The Bible is several books (66) put into one. They are written by several people. e.g. the book of Mark was written by the Apostle Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Now we're getting somewhere! This is probably the most intelligent and most Christian thing you have said this whole time. Although I don't think anything will be revealed when we die, but that's besides the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Exactly But that is a human approach - compell people to do good. Is this what you are expecting from God? The divine way is not that. God has respect for each and every human being's free will, no matter what they do. An absolute love also means this kind of respect. Human love is limited and also limiting and binding. Divine love is far more superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) The Bible is several books (66) put into one. They are written by several people. e.g. the book of Mark was written by the Apostle Mark. How does that book relate to God? Edited December 8, 2005 by anoushik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 But that is a human approach - compell people to do good. Is this what you are expecting from God? I don't expect anything from God. Actually, let's change that. Yes, if God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, then yes, I certainly do expect much more from God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 The divine way is not that. God has respect for each and every human being's free will, no matter what they do. There you go again bringing God down to man's level. Where do you get all this stuff? If I were a believer in the Christian God, that would be one of the most disrespectful things to my God anyone could ever say. The God who created light and dark, the heavens and earth, and ALL else, is soooo much above having to have respect for anything, let alone an insignificant spec we call "human". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 There you go again bringing God down to man's level. Where do you get all this stuff? If I were a believer in the Christian God, that would be one of the most disrespectful things to my God anyone could ever say. The God who created light and dark, the heavens and earth, and ALL else, is soooo much above having to have respect for anything, let alone an insignificant spec we call "human". Sip, apparently you don't understand the essence of Christianity: God is our Heavenly Father according to Jesus Christ. Please pay attention to the word "father". A human father has a respect for his children, so does God, only His respect is pure, permanent and absolute. The idea of a father is very basic because it is so well known, and your idea of a God is more applicable to an arrogant, selfish powerful being who does not care for some small creatures. In other words, it has nothing to do with the God that Jesus was talking about. You got it all wrong my friend. That is in no way Christianity. I would suggest before you make more statements about Christianity to read the Gospels and learn what Jesus Christ has said of God, of himself, and of men, then see if your opinioin of the Christian idea of God makes any sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) How does that book relate to God? Anoushik, like I said to Sip, the same goes true for you. It is puzzling how people can have strong opinion about religion, God, or what not, yet they have not read the Bible. Amazing indeed. Please take up the Bible and read it. You will learn a lot more than whatever you could ever learn from these forum debates. Edited December 8, 2005 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Anoushik, like I said to Sip, the same goes true for you. It is puzzling how people can have strong opinion about religion, God, or what not, yet they have not read the Bible. Amazing indeed. Please take up the Bible and read it. You will learn a lot more than whatever you could ever learn from these forum debates. I have read the Bible. In fact, I've had Bibles given to me all my life (and of course, I read any book that comes in my possesion), first children's Bible by my very religous grandma, and on to regular bibles given to me in German, Swedish, English. And for a while, we attended Church regularly on Sundays in Sweden, since my mom was the accompanist there. So, I know the Bible very well... And that post was meant for sSebB. But, you're welcome to answer it. Again, my question is - how does the Bible relate to God. And let's go further: what role did God have in the creation of the Bible? sSebB already answered that the Bible was written by humans. How does it relate to God, and what role did God have in the existence of the Bible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 I have read the Bible. In fact, I've had Bibles given to me all my life (and of course, I read any book that comes in my possesion), first children's Bible by my very religous grandma, and on to regular bibles given to me in German, Swedish, English. And for a while, we attended Church regularly on Sundays in Sweden, since my mom was the accompanist there. So, I know the Bible very well... And that post was meant for sSebB. But, you're welcome to answer it. Again, my question is - how does the Bible relate to God. And let's go further: what role did God have in the creation of the Bible? sSebB already answered that the Bible was written by humans. How does it relate to God, and what role did God have in the existence of the Bible? Oh, you never know, Anoushik, from your question I assumed that you didn't read the Bible In that case I would advise you to re-read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 And by the way, since we're talking about people reading Bibles... there are people who've never really read the Bible, yet claim to be religious and urge others to read the Bible to find God. For example, what kind of comments are below? How can someone write this when she's already claimed to not have read the Bible? And Sasun, you say that you don't take what is written in the Bible literally. Have you read the Bible? The New Testament from beginning to end? (I agree, the Old Testament is mostly immoral non-sense, and yes, I know the Old Testament as well.) I could suggest to you is perhaps start reading the Bible and the scriptures out of searching for the truth, any truth and see if the Bible speaks to your heart. It may you know, give it a chance. What do you have to lose? Unless you have read it already. I don't know. But if you didn't, then read it for knowlege or as a phylosophical book for starters, and see what happends. About all the sufferings that is going on in this world, I believe it's in the scriptures that such things will happen; but in the end the persons that will live are the ones that are saved. Yes it's very unfortunate and devastating to the sufferers and to the people that have gone through such horrible miseries. I cannot answer you that Anoushik; no one can. You have to search for God yourself and ask Him. Others such as Djrak have, you know. He said that God spoke to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Oh, you never know, Anoushik, from your question I assumed that you didn't read the Bible In that case I would advise you to re-read Can't you answer my question? Like, seriously answer? Of course not. The Bible was written by Human Beings, and it has nothing to do with God. How many years did it take for the Bible to come into its present form? What fables and tales had to be added by the early Christian founders for the Bible to seem persuasive by the common, uneducated folks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 And by the way, since we're talking about people reading Bibles... there are people who've never really read the Bible, yet claim to be religious and urge others to read the Bible to find God. For example, what kind of comments are below? How can someone write this when she's already claimed to not have read the Bible? And Sasun, you say that you don't take what is written in the Bible literally. Have you read the Bible? The New Testament from beginning to end? (I agree, the Old Testament is mostly immoral non-sense, and yes, I know the Old Testament as well.) Anoushik, the Bible is a big collection of books as you know. I don't know many people who have read the Bible from start to end, but many people have read some things from it. In particular, because the Christian church gives a lot heavier importance to the New Testament, for that reason many Christians follow them and only read the New Testament, or parts of it. So they know something from it. For example, someone can read one of the 66 books and find it very inspiring, and also can say that they know something from the Bible. That would not be a false statement that they have some knowledge of the Bible. Someone else may have mechanically read all 66 books from start to end and not understand anything. I would say this person has no real knowledge of the Bible. My personal standard of knowing is grasping the underlying truth rather than mechanically reading. That is me. As to me reading the Bible, like I said I have not read it all, and not even the New Testament completely. I consider the Gospels the most important books, and have read them completely (which I am doing again as Christmas is approaching). Every once in a while I will take and read from both Old and New Testaments. But to tell the truth, I don't find a lot of inspiring things outside of the Gospels. And many things are not clear to me (which explains why I am not in a hurry to read all books end to end). I prefer to read one paragraph and really understand it, rather than read a whole book mechanically. Oh, I have read the Reveletion by St. John and am convinced that this also must not be taken literally, as well as many things in the Gospels said by Jesus. This is my personal understanding. I consider the most important writings in Christianity the words of Jesus Christ as given in the Gospels, then other books. Again, this is my opinion, others may tell you otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) Can't you answer my question? Like, seriously answer? Of course not. The Bible was written by Human Beings, and it has nothing to do with God. How many years did it take for the Bible to come into its present form? What fables and tales had to be added by the early Christian founders for the Bible to seem persuasive by the common, uneducated folks? Sorry Anoushik, I would always be glad to answer you, as I have done many times. But it seems to me my answers have not been of use to you, therefore it does not really matter if I answer or not. But here, my answer to your question: The Bible was written by humans, correct. But these humans had various levels of divine knowledge (or such knowledge was orally told by them and somebody else wrote them down). For example, as sSeb has said, the Gospel of Mark was written by a disciple of Jesus Christ, telling about the events and sayings of Jesus. Jesus talks about God a lot, which I believe is absolutely true, therefore, it has everything to do with God. As to other books, I will not make a strong statement of the nature of the books that I have not read completely, but to the extent that I have read and understood, some things are really inspiring, and I believe there is truth in them and as such have to do with God. Other things which are not inspiring, may have truth that I don't understand, or simply are not divinely inspired and have little or nothing to do with God. Edited December 8, 2005 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Sorry Anoushik, I would always be glad to answer you, as I have done many times. But it seems to me my answers have not been of use to you, therefore it does not really matter if I answer or not. You're wrong Sasun. Your answers have always been very important to me and very appreciated by me. But, I'm sure you know this, I'm not looking to find God. My discussions in this topic are just a way for me to understand other people's religiousity. Your spirituality is very well understood; in fact, I would like for my friends and my future husband even, to be as spiritual - and as a result, as humble - as you have shown to be. I'm not a hardcore atheist who rejects everything that has to do with God, because I believe, as a result, that person also rejects everything that has to do with humanity. I'm more interested to understand other people who blindly accept anything because someone told them that it's written in the Book, or they read it in the Book without any thought whatsoever. You are above that. We've had numerous discussions regarding religion, God, and morality in this forum in the past years and you've shown that you don't blindly accept something without giving it a thought. But, unfortunately, most religious people are not like you. Most of them show to be hypocrits. They only remember God when they have to, and they never remember their fellow human beings. And the reason they remember God in the first place is because they want God to do something for them. And when the topic of religion comes up, these "religious" people quickly jump to judging atheists to be either immoral or ignorant. That's why atheists protest and want to get away from "religious" people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Sip, apparently you don't understand the essence of Christianity: God is our Heavenly Father according to Jesus Christ. Please pay attention to the word "father". A human father has a respect for his children, so does God, only His respect is pure, permanent and absolute. You missed the point. That is exactly what is not consistent with a God that created light and dark, heavens and earth, and all else in between. I don't have to read the Bible to debate the inconsistencies presented in this thread. I'm just going by what you and sSebB have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 But that is a human approach - compell people to do good. Is this what you are expecting from God? The divine way is not that. God has respect for each and every human being's free will, no matter what they do. An absolute love also means this kind of respect. Human love is limited and also limiting and binding. Divine love is far more superior. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Sorry Anoushik, I would always be glad to answer you, as I have done many times. But it seems to me my answers have not been of use to you, therefore it does not really matter if I answer or not. But here, my answer to your question: The Bible was written by humans, correct. But these humans had various levels of divine knowledge (or such knowledge was orally told by them and somebody else wrote them down). For example, as sSeb has said, the Gospel of Mark was written by a disciple of Jesus Christ, telling about the events and sayings of Jesus. Jesus talks about God a lot, which I believe is absolutely true, therefore, it has everything to do with God. As to other books, I will not make a strong statement of the nature of the books that I have not read completely, but to the extent that I have read and understood, some things are really inspiring, and I believe there is truth in them and as such have to do with God. Other things which are not inspiring, may have truth that I don't understand, or simply are not divinely inspired and have little or nothing to do with God. Once again, a very good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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