Sasun Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 there may be "similarities" between , but then again Krishna didn't die for our sins Well, Krishna did many other things towards the salvation of human beings. nor did he have a resurrection. If your guide is the resurrection then here is what I think about it: There have been some cases of resurrection, but the resurrected were not the equal of Christ. There have been many other miracles done, including walking on the water. But the performers of miracles were not the equals of Christ. So I don't think that miracles should serve as a guide to know who is the truth and who is not. In fact, Jesus has warned people against miracles and where there was no faith he didn't do any miracles so that people would not have faith in Him just because of miracles. Ones faith should not be based on miracles - that is my understanding. Nor, does Krishna's "truth" bring eternal life. And how do you know that? So, what kind of "truth' is Krishna's ? If you want to know you should read Bhagavad Gita where Krishna's sermon is laid down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Hi Sasun, My claims are only truth not by my own concoction but by what is stated in God's Word. Not only is it stated in God's word but these things are evident in the world. Look at other religions, they either deny sin or they think they can repay sin with good works. The Word of God is clear about how sins can be paid for, in Romans 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death," not good works. If one sins, one must die, not just physically but spiritually and since the soul is eternal, spiritual death is equated with everlasting punishment in hell, and that is literal. In actuallity, if one is trying to pay for sin with good works he is yet sinning again. See what the prophet Isaiah says, Is 64:6 "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;" Righteous deeds are works. And also, Paul says in Rom 3:20: "because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." and in Rom 11:6: "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." and in Galatians 2:16: "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified." and so on and so forth. There are many passages but I think I've posted enough for now. Onnig, it is my understanding is that one of the fundamental teachings of Christ is to do good. On the other hand, we are all sinful. The from what you are saying we should not do good? That sounds like contradicting Christ's teaching. Of course, without God's Grace noone can be saved. However, God's Grace is not given unfairly towards everyone. Those who do good are more deserving than those who don't. Do you not agree? In that case doing good is very important for salvation. I must say that the idea that the sinners will go to eternal hell is wrong and contradicts to Christ's teachings. We are God's children according to Christ. Therefore our Heavenly Father will never condemn us to eternal hell. Otherwise it is not a father at all. Love is the most important relationship between God and man, and a key in Christ's teachings, therefore eternal hell makes no sense at all. P.S. I believe there is hell but not eternal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Hi Sasun, I have explained with my own words, it's in my first post. It is not clear. Please clarify. What is a Christian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnig Posted August 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 (edited) Hi ArmenSarg, I disagree with that. Chrisianity is all about the human being. Human being and his accomplishments are the center of Christianity. In Christianity God even came down to save the human being. In fact Christianity IS the faith that makes the human accomplishment as its sole aim. No, in Christianity, God is doing the work, God has supplied the the unblemished Lamb, God opens the unbeliever's eyes and grants faith, the incarnate God, Jesus Christ, has lived the sinless life, the incarnate God, Jesus Christ, died for sins, the incarnate God, Jesus Christ, rose again. That is what I am mean as Devine accomplishment in which God accomplished salvation, man did not. Edited August 19, 2004 by onnig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 No, in Christianity, God is doing the work, God has supplied the the unblemished Lamb, God opens the unbeliever's eyes and grants faith, the incarnate God, Jesus Christ, has lived the sinless life, the incarnate God, Jesus Christ, died for sins, the incarnate God, Jesus Christ, rose again. That is what I am mean as Devine accomplishment in which God accomplished salvation, man did not. Why is God doing all those things. What's his aim? Isn't he already devine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 What can I say Edward. I am happy that you found something that satisfies your spiritual needs. That’s the discipline, no religion and no politics, just music when it is only music that matters Just I see a new bread of species emerging with shining swords and very much resemble the crusaders, with a slogan “eider you are with us or against us”, some even are cheering for the coming of Armageddon, couldn’t they be more happy, it’s a joys times for them. and every broken sole intends to find refuge in some organized religious nut structures, looks like humanity has taken a U turn to dark ages, and I see dangerous pattern, especially here and in middle east, so my friend I ask you, since man kind has murdered, raped, robed etc… more of its kind in the name of God then any other forms of death, what do you see and evaluate, why is it necessary to convinced me I’m sinful and my sole has to be saved, no I want my money back, when I was born no one told me I’m sin, I have my own convictions, and I very much keep it to my self, and my 11th commandment, “thou shell those keep the religion to them self’s” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 “thou shell those keep the religion to them self’s” Your commandment is not clearly stated (but I agree with it nonetheless). By the way Edward, one way to look at sin is to look at it as imperfection. Of course we all are imperfect. But when someone imperfect comes forward and starts condemning you to eternal hell and fires, or starts a war against another religion, that's what is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 I'll leave for you to correct it master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Hey Edo didn't you have another commandment a few months back? I forget what that was but this one makes a 12th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Hey Edo didn't you have another commandment a few months back? I forget what that was but this one makes a 12th vor mek@ barekam aleher martem, hishuxutyuns davajanume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 vor mek@ barekam aleher martem, hishuxutyuns davajanume Edo jan yes alehere chem baits im hishoghtiunn el e davatshanum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 one way to look at sin is to look at it as imperfection. Of course we all are imperfect. Yes Sasun, the only way the explain the horrible characterization of a newborn as "sinful" would be along those lines. But ... Imperfection is the basis of life, and more importantly, of self-awareness. Perfect things are by necessity dead or self-unaware. This will be my only post in this thread as I have no interest or time to sink in a "born-again" sort of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Edo jan yes alehere chem baits im hishoghtiunn el e davatshanum then you need to go back to healty diet Sasun jan. now I remember what it was, some may get it wrong here but I was in NY was going to drop to NJ to teach you but you went to PA so insthed of NJ i went to MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Yes Sasun, the only way the explain the horrible characterization of a newborn as "sinful" would be along those lines. Hmm, perhaps in terms of absolute perfection the newborn would be imperfect, but they are almost absolutely innocent at the same time since they can't do anything consciously therefore they can't do anything sinful or good either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 then you need to go back to healty diet Sasun jan. Its a good commandment now I remember what it was, some may get it wrong here but I was in NY was going to drop to NJ to teach you but you went to PA so insthed of NJ i went to MA I was clever, wasn't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 (edited) The world has only two forms of religion. One that is true and one that is false. LOL false...so what does that make your belief Winston lets keep it nice, shell we please? Edited August 19, 2004 by Edward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnig Posted August 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 (edited) People, you have completely strayed off this thread, if you want to talk about other religions go right ahead, but start your own thread, not here, stay on the topic of discussion please, thanks. Edited August 19, 2004 by onnig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 People, you have completely strayed off this thread, if you want to talk about other religions go right ahead, but start your own thread, not hear, stay on the topic of discussion please, thanks. Onnig, it is Edward pushing for his commandments and trying to tempt us to stray from the path of salvation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Winston, please...........edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnig Posted August 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 (ignoring THOTH because it doesn't sound like he really wants an answer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnig Posted August 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 (edited) well, if this is going to become a big joke then I'll ignore that as well, but as moderators, maybe you guys should enforce some of the thread rules here, instead of breaking them yourselves. Edited August 19, 2004 by onnig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 LMAO Sasun Onnig jan no disrespect just sharing our point of views, by all means go ahead and post, always little humor spicess up things you know. by the way are you Gyumretsi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 (edited) Yes Sasun, the only way the explain the horrible characterization of a newborn as "sinful" would be along those lines. But ... Imperfection is the basis of life, and more importantly, of self-awareness. Perfect things are by necessity dead or self-unaware. This will be my only post in this thread as I have no interest or time to sink in a "born-again" sort of discussion. yes - of course...well said as usual IMO any "religion" that condemns newborns to hell (or wherever it is - not heaven - etc) - and this whole concept of "original sin" - even sin (against some [conceited] god imposing such on us)....[edited out] - no friend of mankind or anyone - and deserving of nothing (even if he did manage creation - and of that I am in serious doubt - likely claiming he did such because we are too ignorant to know different)...anyway such god is (essentially) evil IMO and those who push their narrow, hateful, unkowing beliefs on others - and imply or threaten others with eternal punishment etc - I say - Edited August 19, 2004 by Sasun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnig Posted August 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Edward, no I'm not, if that was a serious question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Onnig you are right, we can't go off topic. But we are just trying to lighten up, and that requires a little going off topic. Such threads can easily go in the wrong direction. So don't feel disrespected or anything... we will keep the thread on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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