Sasun Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 (edited) Onnig, that is who you have believed, the false Christ I am getting tired of shallow bigots... Edited August 24, 2004 by Sasun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Yes. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Christ is a ficticious personage that never existed... The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S The Christ Conspiracy" contains over 1200 footnotes that cite archaeological, historical and literary documentation by a wide variety of sources, including many Christian authorities extending back to the beginning of the Christian era. The book is a scholarly work that presents scientific analysis and facts, not "opinions." The dating of the gospels to the last quarter of the second century is based on the work of Judge Charles Waite, Book Description Controversial and explosive, The Christ Conspiracy marshals an enormous amount of startling evidence that the religion of Christianity and Jesus Christ were created by members of various secret societies, mystery schools and religions in order to unify the Roman Empire under one state religion! This powerful book maintains that these groups drew upon a multitude of myths and rituals that already existed long before the Christian era and reworked them into the story the Christian religion presents today-known to most Westerners as the Bible. Author Acharya makes the case that there was no actual person named Jesus, but that several characters were rolled into one mythic being inspired by the deities Mithras, Heracles/Hercules, Dionysus and many others of the Roman Empire. She demonstrates that the story of Jesus, as portrayed in the Gospels, is nearly identical in detail to those of the earlier savior-gods Krishna and Horus, and concludes that Jesus was certainly neither original nor unique, nor was he the divine revelation. Rather, he represents the very ancient body of knowledge derived from celestial observation and natural forces. A book that will initiate heated debate and inner struggle, it is intelligently written and referenced. The only book of its kind, it is destined for controversy. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books The Jesus Puzzle. Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ? : Challenging the Existence of an Historical Jesus by Earl Doherty Why are the events of the Gospel story, and its central character Jesus of Nazareth, not found in the New Testament epistles? Why does Paul's divine Christ seem to have no connection to the Gospel Jesus, but closely resembles the many pagan savior gods of the time who lived only in myth? Why, given the spread of Christianity across the Roman Empire in the first century, did only one Christian community compose a story of Jesus' life and death-the Gospel of Mark-while every other Gospel simply copied and reworked the first one? Why is every detail in the Gospel story of Jesus' trial and crucifixion drawn from passages in the Old Testament? The answer to these and other questions surrounding the New Testament will come as a shock to those who imagine that the origins of Christianity and the figure of Jesus are securely represented by Christian tradition and the Gospels. With the arrival of the third millennium, the time has come to face the stunning realization that for the last 1900 years, Christianity has revered a founder and icon of the faith who probably never existed. An entire faith movement, one of the world's major religions, is assumed to have been launched by those Gospel events. Yet if that were indeed the reality of history, we would face a profoundly astonishing situation. For the fact is, the story which presumably began so much is to be traced back to a single document, to the literary efforts of what may well have been a single individual. We have already seen that until the time of Ignatius early in the second century, no one in the non-Gospel Christian record speaks of a trial and crucifixion by Pilate, of a death in Jerusalem or a rising from a tomb in that location. Moreover, contrary to popular belief, Mark himself has no corroboration. Christian tradition for the better part of two millennia has regarded the four Gospels as independent accounts of the events of Jesus' life and death, by persons in the know, providing a fourfold witness to those events. Most Christians today still believe that. But New Testament scholars know better, and they've known it for almost two centuries. They have come to realize that the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, rather than being independent corroborations, are direct copies of Mark. Matthew reproduces almost 90% of Mark in his own text, Luke over 50%. As for the passion itself, those two later evangelists have shaped their accounts exactly as Mark did, with only a couple of minor alterations and additions. Even the extra source used by both, the Q document, had nothing to add to their passion story, since Q contained not a word about a trial, death and resurrection. It is as though Matthew and Luke knew nothing about the events at the end of Jesus' life, the events which brought salvation to the world and triggered the great explosion that became Christianity, until they encountered a copy of the Gospel of Mark. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/store...#09686014053200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 I am no theologian, neither am I an historian of the church. I couldn't care less. But those of you who contend to be such experts should read the Bible again. Jesus did not establish the church. His main mission was to reform the synagogue, (I come not to change the law ...blah, blah..) and he failed, miserably, so much so that he lost his life. The church was founded and formulated by the apostles, primarily by that hellenophile St. Paul. The reason why there is so much intermixture of (Greek) mythology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 I am no theologian, neither am I an historian of the church. I couldn't care less. But those of you who contend to be such experts should read the Bible again. Jesus did not establish the church. His main mission was to reform the synagogue, (I come not to change the law ...blah, blah..) and he failed, miserably, so much so that he lost his life. The church was founded and formulated by the apostles, primarily by that hellenophile St. Paul. The reason why there is so much intermixture of (Greek) mythology. While I can agree with your interpretation - of what it seems Jesus (if he did exist) was up to - verus what Paul has transformed the religion into...I still think that there is quite a good reson to be skeptical that such a person ever did exist. No matter - an educated person would understand how this religion developed - what it owes to the "classical" religions from the greeks, Sumarians and Egyptians - what it (and Judaism before it) took form these and how it corrupted and manipulated many of the meanings of these original stories to justify belief sets and practices an dprohibitions much different from those esposed by the earlier religions. Chistianity is not original for the most part but highly related to and derivitive of earlier religions. And much that is (arguably) somewhat original (much of the new testament stuff...still much derivitive of course...) - is really quite questionable - faniciful, overly complex and not in accordnace with any real human values (and look at all the schisms and heresies and disagreements that have arisin through the ages). I'm not arguing against the basic messages of Christ - for the most part they are good messages - but the constructs and the rules & penalties ets etc - and then of course the unscientific and what have you conclusions and prounoucements about the nature of things.....yeah hang Gallileo & Coprinicus why don't you ...etc yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnig Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Onnig, that is who you have believed, the false Christ I am getting tired of shallow bigots... not a bigot, just telling it as it is. and the other voicetrous ones, if you have nothing to add to the question poised in the thread, just leave, you're way off topic. It's obvious the mods won't take control, that's probably why this thread is out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 not a bigot, just telling it as it is. As it is??? But you are an ignorant, you can't tell about things that you don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnig Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Sasun, If that is all you can do is insult me, I will kindly ask you to stop. Since you are a moderator here, maybe I should inform other moderators of your childishness. Christ was right when he said: Matt 10:34: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." That is with the God-haters like yourself. Do you not see your violent reaction to the truth? Amazing how true God's Word is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Onnig, stop making cheap accusations. You are the one who started making personal remarks. Who do you think you are to tell me I believe in a false Christ? And who are you to tell me I am a God hater? That speaks of your ignorance - when you feel that your understanding is challenged you make personal comments about your opponents faith. That is bigotry. Your theology fails to make sense, I regard it contradictory and shallow. I am not the one to take all kinds of claims about Christ lightly hence I will challenge everything that you say. But note that I didn't start calling you a satanist, that is what is childish. Look at you, trying to push for your theology and condemning your opponents to hell. You are fit for medieval inquisitor. Your theology contradicts to the spirit if Christ's teachings, you should yourself learn Christianity before you try to teach others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 It's obvious the mods won't take control, that's probably why this thread is out of control. What do you expect when a newcomer like you want to surppress his views upon others? One peace of advice my friend, keep your convictions to yourself, do not reject, learn to listen others older then you, be civil and courteous, religion as I see it doesn’t reflect mathematical question nor it has same prove, every one of us see it defiantly and expressing opinions based on that, this is certainly not a place for preaching, and if all fails simply if I were you I would just keep quiet, you must be and everyone for that matter!! Be careful not to offend others, we are not communists here and opinions are welcome, as long as you comply with the rules of this forum! But I would not tolerate another insults directed to another member! As moderator I would take control of this thread and from here on, if anybody has direct insult to another member he will be off limits to participate here I hope I made my self clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnig Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Sasun, Cry me a river. I'm the one that started this thread, if you don't like it, then start your own. I'm not going to sit around here and have people, like yourself, spread lies and deceptions about the Lord Jesus Christ. Call me a fanatic or whatever you will, what I tell you is from God's Word. Your beef is not with me, its with God. Whatever I've said I have quoted from God's Word. You need to deal with it, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Sasun, Cry me a river. I'm the one that started this thread, if you don't like it, then start your own. I'm not going to sit around here and have people, like yourself, spread lies and deceptions about the Lord Jesus Christ. Call me a fanatic or whatever you will, what I tell you is from God's Word. Your beef is not with me, its with God. Whatever I've said I have quoted from God's Word. You need to deal with it, not me. Onnig, stop the cheap accusations... you are only further discrediting yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 ... what I tell you is from God's Word. And you happen to know this just how exactly? You keep calling others liars and haters but in the end, all you say falls back on your claims that you speak the word of God. My lord warned me of false prophets in my sleep ... and you ... well, you sound a lot like one of them prophets. You are asking moderators to step in and control an argument that is fundamentally based on hoopla and hearsay. Word of God? Even I as an amazing moderator am in no position to claim to deliver such a word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnig Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 (edited) Edward, I posted the question, if people don't like the answers, that's their problem, not mine. If they don't like it, they can start their own thread. That was my point, but Sasun's personal attacks have crossed the line. Call it preaching? Fine, the question was theological in nature, and requires a theological answer which will inherently cause separation. Is this board censored? I can't say something that may insult someone indirectly or directly but other's can say what they please about God? My answers will remain the same. Once someone accuses me of being "arrogant" or a "bigot" then I will tell them what the Bible says about them. If that is against the "rules" of this forum, I'll just go to another forum. Looks like the "People's Republic of Hye Forum" prefer it. Let me know, and I'm gone. Edited August 24, 2004 by onnig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Onnig, for your information this thread does not belong to you. You can't tell people not to post. Everyone has the right to post as long as it is not offending and is not too much off topic. And not, disagreeing with your point of view is NOT off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 That was my point, but Sasun's personal attacks have crossed the line. Oh my... you will certainly receive some punishment in hell for making this false accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnig Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Sasun, If the comments are off the subject, they can still post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onnig Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Oh my... you will certainly receive some punishment in hell for making this false accusation. Sasun, I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 ok people you emotions are high and needs to be cooled down, when such a time permits I'll re-open this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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