Where Did Turks Come From?

[Irandoost]

Hi there,

 

Sorry to jump in, but I see some very distorted information.

 

I am Iranian and this is my first post. Persian has been the common lingua franca of Iran for over 1000 years. Also the majority of Iran speak Persian language and 10-15% are languages very close to persian which do not have written literature: for example Gilaki/Mazandarani/Luri are considered dialects within Persian. This makes about 65-70% of Iran's population.

In Iran despite the pan-turkist propaganda you might read in the newspapers of the republic of Azarbaijan, there are newspapers, radio, TV programs and etc. in all major minority languages like Kurdish, Azeri-Turkish and etc. There is also university departments that teach minority languages. The supreme leader of Iran is actually Azarbaijani (Ayatollah Khaemeni). Khaeme is a village close to Tabriz.

 

 

Couple points I want to mention. Nezami Ganjavi was not Turkish and actually has derogatory terms describing turks. In all major Persian poems, including that of Nezami, Turks are usually described Cheshm-Tang (Narrow-eyed) which means of mongolian stock. Neither was Khaghani Turkish. Neither was Babak Khorramdin Turkish. Neither Zarthustra was Turkish. Neither Mahasti Ganjavi was Turkish. The Shervaanshahs were not Turkis either. The name Azarbaijan actually is Atrapaatekaan. Atoor meaning fire as in modern Kurdish Atir and Persian Azar and Pahlavi Atir. The name Azarbaijan predates the arrival of the first Oghuz tribesmen by about 1500 years. This name is not Turkish. Azari people are as much as Turkic as Black people that speak English are Anglo-Saxons.

 

The war between the republic of Azarbaijan and Armenia is tragic. But I do not think neither country specially Azarbaijan is in a position to give lessons to Iran on how to treat its minority. Especially with its Lezgi, Talysh and Armenian separatist movement which reflects the states policty of pan-turkism prevalent in that country!

 

 

Irandoost.

Edited March 31, 2005 by Irandoost

[Irandoost]

After reading some other posts:

 

About the name "Khankendi" is actually is a compound of two words Khan and Kand. The first word "Khan" is definitely of altaic origin, but the word "Kand" is actually Iranian origin and has entered Turkish. For example the word Khandagh in Arabic comes from the word Kandak in Persian. It means trench in that sense.

 

Similarly the word Karabagh, Kara probably is the word Black in Altaic and Bagh means garden in persian. Actually Kara in Old Persian also means fort. But the word is most likely a compound and if I had to guess, the Kara part is taken from Altaic and not the Old Persian fort because the name is fairly recent. Of course as mentioned the name Azarbaijan, Baku, Lankoran, Ganja.. are all Persian.

 

The Qajar kings spoke Persian in their court and were supporters of Persian culture like the Seljuqs. There are some people that of Qajar tribe but they speak mainly Persian now a days. It depends in which area of Iran they reside.

Actually virtually almost (over 90%) you can find before the 20 century from the area of republic of Azarbaijan written by Muslims was Persian. But with the growth of pan-turkism, and also a desire to cut of that area from Iran, Persian language fell from its place and so did the connection of that area with Iran became severed.

 

The Ghezedlbash today refers to people (mainly of Kurdish and Zaza) origin who practice a heterodox form of Islam. But actually the Ghezedlbash was a confederation of mainly Turkic speaking tribes (with some Kurdish admixture) that were followers of the Safavid dynasty in the religious sense. So they were formed in this era.

 

The name Javanshir is again Persian Javan (young) and Shir (lion) and he was of Parthian(Iranian) descent and not Albanian. He ruled over the Albanian kingdom.

 

This is a good article to read as well:

http://www.iranchamber.com/geography/articles/arran.php

Edited March 31, 2005 by Irandoost

[skhara]

Azari people are as much as Turkic as Black people that speak English are Anglo-Saxons.

 

Well maybe this is true for these Azari people that you mention, but it is a completely outlandish statement if made in reference to the modern day "Azerbaijanis" whom we've always called Turks. Modern day Azerbaijan is about 70 to 80% caucausian, about 20-30% mongoloid.

[a_sir]

Well maybe this is true for these Azari people that you mention, but it is a completely outlandish statement if made in reference to the modern day "Azerbaijanis" whom we've always called Turks.  Modern day Azerbaijan is about 70 to 80% caucausian, about 20-30% mongoloid.

style_images/master/snapback.png

 

And that is all because there "ain't such an animal" as some initial "Turkish ethnic origin" - it's a random mix of Lydians, Persians, Friesians, Skits, Bithinians, Kurds, Arabian, Caucasian and whoever else (even contemporary Greeks are exactly the same cocktail) all of them living together in Byzantium, most of them Christians till 12 century and barely within the Osman Empire (which was a direct issue of a sort of a "Civil war" on a religious base against the Empire) it occured that so-called concept "Turk", which I think should be applied to citizens of nowadays Turkey, but it won't be such a big deal to be applied (as a nickname) to Azerbaijanis as well ))

[ARARAT KID]

Did you know that Armenia is considered eastern Turkey,,, in many books I have seen it states that armenia ia kingdom but it is within the country of turky and is not a independent country, when clealry it is. Turks have cleared the history of our nation with their lies. ANd almost anything that their government claims is about 100 percent grade a garbage....

[Dave]

I hope you know that most of historic Armenia was located in what is now called Turkey. Turks came as late as in the 11th century. Edited February 22, 2007 by Dave

[Zhakareh]

From Tartarus via Tartary, and God willing to Tartarus they shall return!

[hosank]

Well, technically they are right. Unlike modern Armenians, Urartians were not of Indo-Europaeic origin.

 

no...the urartians did not have an indo-european LANGUAGE, but were descendants of ancient aryans, Urartians are armenians

 

turks come from what is known today as turkestan (kazakstan, turkmenistan, uzbekistan)

 

the turks came from the south of the caspian see, while their ethnic brothers, the tatars, moved westwards from the north of the caspian.

 

the turks arrived in the middle east in the 11th century, and did not settle in anatolia till the 14th.

 

armenians have lived in anatolia, and the caucasus for 5 millenia

 

Edited March 7, 2007 by hosank

[zurderer]

That urartu thing, do you have a proof for it? I mean how can a nation change her langauge so much?

 

And If a nation change her langauge so much, should we say older nation(Urartus) is same with new nation(armenians.)

 

Should I say, we are hitits because we have some common cultural things with hitits.

 

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

 

name='zurderer' date='Mar 14 2007, 04:54 AM' post='192321']

"That urartu thing, do you have a proof for it? I mean how can a nation change her langauge so much?"

 

who gives a f*** what you think? what the $%&* a turk like you knows about language?

 

 

 

"And If a nation change her langauge so much, should we say older nation(Urartus) is same with new nation(armenians.)"

 

 

just take a look to this son of a turk old nation...new nation...armenia...diaspora...karabakh. so desperately the bastards wanna cut armenia from the rest of the world and from it's past. do you honestly belive you can re-write the history to a point when you can claim western armenia doesn't belong to the armenians? fool

 

 

 

"Should I say, we are hitits because we have some common cultural things with hitits."

 

 

turks have a culture? are you sure you are not armenian, or a greek? maybe what the romans left behind was built by the turks, huh? ))

Edited March 16, 2007 by Edward

[Zartonk]

That urartu thing, do you have a proof for it? I mean how can a nation change her langauge so much?

 

How efficient is your mastery of Araratian Z...?

[zurderer]

who gives a f*** what you think? what the $%&* a turk like you knows about language?

 

I know classification of langauges.

 

just take a look to this son of a turk old nation...new nation...armenia...diaspora...karabakh. so desperately the bastards wanna cut armenia from the rest of the world and from it's past. do you honestly belive you can re-write the history to a point when you can claim western armenia doesn't belong to the armenians? fool

 

 

I just asked a question, and If I get a good answer, I am ready for accepting urartian root of armenians, but well. I dont count your swears as good answer.

 

I should also add, I did not talk about western armenia. You call it as western armenia, I call it as eastern Turkey. You are free to argue it with words or weapons. Like me.

 

turks have a culture? are you sure you are not armenian, or a greek? maybe what the romans left behind was built by the turks, huh? ))

 

My friend, If you are realy curious, I may become half bulgarian, half greek. My childs would become bulgarian, greek, albanian, and turkish. Is this realy so much important?

 

will you kiss me because, I have greek ancestory?

 

About culture, we have more rich culture than you, because of adapting every culture we met.(Including Armenians)

 

How efficient is your mastery of Araratian Z...?

 

huh?

 

 

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

[*QUOTE]I know classification of langauges.

 

 

moron, you think that makes you an expert of languages?

 

 

 

 

[*QUOTE]I just asked a question, and If I get a good answer,

 

W W you even have expectations

 

 

 

 

[*QUOTE] I am ready for accepting urartian root of armenians, but well.

 

see yourself out to the shitwhole where you came from.

 

 

 

[*QUOTE]I dont count your swears as good answer.

 

 

swearing is the least you must expect

 

 

[*QUOTE]I should also add, I did not talk about western armenia.

 

you talk crap, that's what you do. you just want to extend the trash talk about the turks as long as possible.

 

 

 

 

[*QUOTE]You call it as western armenia, I call it as eastern Turkey.

 

 

we call it home, you call it a territory.

 

 

 

[*QUOTE]You are free to argue it with words or weapons. Like me.

 

you have no right at an armenian forum and you don't peple what they need to do.

 

 

 

 

[*QUOTE]My friend,

 

 

my friend? where you think you are, in a bazar selling a camel?

 

 

 

[*QUOTE]If you are realy curious, I may become half bulgarian, half greek. My childs would become bulgarian, greek, albanian, and turkish. Is this realy so much important?

 

but you are not and you are willing to steal their identity.

 

 

 

 

[*QUOTE]will you kiss me because, I have greek ancestory?

 

greeks don't come to an armenian forum and make fool of themselves.

 

 

 

[*QUOTE]About culture, we have more rich culture than you, because of adapting every culture we met.(Including Armenians)

huh?

 

you have culture? you have 8 million illiterat women in turkey. just because you change the city name from Constantinople to istanbul, and just because you turn Saint Sofia into a mosque doesn't mean you have a culture. while the turks are bi&@ing because of Armenian Year in France, remind me who said 'turkey must undergo major cultural changes before it become part of e.u.'

Edited March 16, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom

[MadArmo]

That urartu thing, do you have a proof for it? I mean how can a nation change her langauge so much?

 

And If a nation change her langauge so much, should we say older nation(Urartus) is same with new nation(armenians.)

 

Should I say, we are hitits because we have some common cultural things with hitits.

 

 

 

 

We are proof... We have archives and if you took the time to research it you'll find the answers. We evolved too, We can assure you or pseudo historians. Hitties were not Turkic and Armenians were the first inhabbitants of eastern Anatolia which can't be denied ( Historical Armenia ) ... Turkic tribes settled and assimilated into our culture and others in the area, Nothing is yours, stealing other cultural monuments is not an accomplishment nor serves your beloved Turkey any good. It brings a valid question ... Do you understand Armenians were more superior in Ottoman cultural achivements then Turks ? Do you know who really built your empire ? Don't you realize we gave Turks a face of humanity in many ways... After you come to reality about Turks & their dastardly deeds and why Europe has their doubts about letting you join the club, You may understand my point .

 

 

Btw, My cousins in Jordan still have deeds to lands in Marash ... Signed by official Ottoman officials in old Turkish, It should be valid right ? Can we go and claim these lands ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zartonk]

huh?

 

Oh, really? Thought so.

 

That urartu thing

 

 

 

[Hellektor]

I had promised I wouldn't take part in the discussions but this fucking "Eastern Anatolia" shit just pisses me off beyond reason.

 

Dear MadArmo,

 

You have also been fooled by the Turdish history fabrications, I beg you PLEASE do not use the derogatory genocidal term "Eastern Anatolia". It's a post Kemal Ataturd falsification and it's bullshit, here for the millionth time:

 

Anatolia is Greek for east.

It's a meaningless term itself. East of what? Maybe east of Greek lands or east to Europe.

Anatolia = east

Eastern Anatolia = eastern east = bullshit.

 

Moreover, Armenia has not been a part of fucking Anatolia. I despise that term too and I'd prefer Asia Minor.

 

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/photos/data/500/medium/Armenia-Bible-map.jpg

 

Click on the map for a larger image.

 

Dear Zartonk, they won't listen to me and replace this despicable term with "Turkish Occupied Armenia", they didn't even listen to you.

[Hellektor]

Regarding the 100% Armenian kingdom of Van

I. I paste from an old post of mine with some updating:

What is known of the "Urartian" language is only the cuneiform tablets where the kings ordered their feats to be recounted. Some are in Khaldian (Urartian, a Hurrian related language) others in Akkadian. My source tells me: “of all the living languages, Armenian is the closest in terms of vocabulary”. It goes on to give examples of words that sound similar and mean the same in both languages: Ashtuatz = Astvatz = god, aban= avan, abeli = aveli, etc., unlike a ridiculous Turkish study where a “professor” (that dickhead Diker moron) presents a list of words he claims to be the “Urartian glossary” and for every word he cites a Turkish/Persian/Arabic word that SOUNDS more or less similar (regardless of the meaning) and “concludes” the Urartian language to be originated from Turkish! If I had to reason like this “scholar” I could take this whole text and find an Armenian word that remotely or otherwise sounds like every word in it and claim that English comes from Armenian. Isn’t this absurd?

There are theories that argue there is a super-language family that includes this language along with Indo-European and other linguistic subgroups. Inaccurate theories are all we have and some are used for political reasons to “prove” that the indigenous Armenians are comers and the nomadic Turkish invaders were cultured people and had a civilization 900000000000000000000000000 million, billion, trillion, quadrillion eons before the Big Bang in "Eastern @#!?@*$ Anatolia".

Would anyone DARE THINK that the Arab people of Egypt, who don’t have much racial, linguistic and cultural affinity with the Pharaohs, are not the legitimate descendants of those who built the pyramids and the Sphinx? Why is it always the Armenians (who in many things still share the Urartian heritage), who have always to justify their origins? The thin Indo-European theory is not enough proof to deny us our ancestry. Call it self-righteous, but I only claim what’s naturally obvious and not Sumerians, Aramaic, Greeks, Parthians, Elamite, Manni, Arrata, Medians, Achaemenids, Aluanians, Egyptians, Assyrians, Akkadians, Babylonians, Etruscans, Lydians, Phrigians, Scythians, Eskimos, Native Americans, Incas, Aztecs, Mayas, Martians, Saturnans, Jupiterians, Out of the Milky Wayans, Parallel Universians like the Turks do.


II. Darius the Great (522-486 BC) who had to fight the Armenians five times before he subjugated them, records his conquest of Armenia in his trilingual inscription in Baghastana (Bistoon, Behistun), near Kermanshah where he calls Armenia: Armina in Old Persian, Harmina in Elamite and Urashtu (Urartu) in Akkadian. Enough reason, carved in stone 2500 years ago, that Urartu and Armenia were one and the same.

Those who will claim that the kingdom of Van didn't exist anymore at that time should realize that this confirms rather than otherwise, that Urartu was the name of the country and not the kingdom and was still used after the fall of kingdom of Van to designate the same country: Armenia.

[irlandahay]

 

And If a nation change her langauge so much, should we say older nation(Urartus) is same with new nation(armenians.)

 

 

you tell me turk...tell me, are you able to read "turkish" (arabic and some vomit sounds added to it i guess) from about 90 years ago? before ataturk (or as i like to call him, captain sh*t head) changed your language to become the wests b*tch?

 

you talk alot but those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it. your land is built on blood that time cant wash away...sooner or later the 1.5 million will catch up to you...and therel be no one to save you then.

[irlandahay]

I know classification of langauges.

 

 

About culture, we have more rich culture than you, because of adapting every culture we met.(Including Armenians)

huh?

 

what do you classify turkish under?

 

culture you met? i think you eman massacred? well actually, you didnt adapt to anything, you stole constantly. yout language is arabic mixed with mongolian, your architecture is not your own, your food is a mix of greek assyrian armenian and kurdish, heck i bet youv got some armenian greek or assyrian in u somewhere...ever wonder why you ahve some "native turks" with blond hair and blue eyes?

 

 

[MadArmo]

Hellektor Jan... I promise not to use it. I see your point how it effects arguments risen by Armenians. Asia Minor or on eastern parts is Historical Armenia original homeland of Armens. I stand corrected, I support any Armenian who refutes the Turkesh theory of coming to our ancestrial lands before 1071 ! Hope this comes you down a bit , And one more thing they can't erase history nor pervert it ! We are vigilant and ready for combat in all areana's...

 

 

Armenians answer the call !

Edited March 20, 2007 by MadArmo

[irlandahay]

I had promised I wouldn't take part in the discussions but this fucking "Eastern Anatolia" shit just pisses me off beyond reason.

 

 

what? why?!

 

why arnt u posting anymore?

[Zartonk]

Dear Zartonk, they won't listen to me and replace this despicable term with "Turkish Occupied Armenia", they didn't even listen to you.

 

Eench arats Hellektor jan. East Asia Minor at least?

[Armenak]

About culture, we have more rich culture than you, because of adapting every culture we met.(Including Armenians)

huh?

Some prime examples of your "more rich" culture:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b1/ZekiMurenNazarBoncuguCover.jpg

 

http://www.internethaber.com/images/news/3190.jpg

 

http://www.geocities.com/eski45/nehaber02.jpg

[MadArmo]

Some prime examples of your "more rich" culture:

 

 

 

They are homosexual ... The sad thing is older generation of Armenians did listen to these perverts ! I can say especially the Beriutsti armo's !!! I can't understand why !? We have much better singers with great lyrics and melodies. Even today I hear some young guys driving around with Turkish blasting... Or it's RAP with vulgarities !

Edited March 20, 2007 by MadArmo

[yerevanforeigner6]

Hi!

 

Turks come from Central Asia and their ancestors were Mongols.