Arpa

Ortho means just, oughigh, jisht. Ortho-dox, from the Greek "ortho", true, right, correct and "doxa", opinion, thought. Similarly the Armenian "áõÕÕ³÷³éoughghapar" is made of two words "oughigh", straight, correct an "par", the base for words like "parq" etc. which among others, like glory and majesty also means tradition, belief, tenet. Boghos, you are right, oughigh/ortho! "Oughigh" is a native Armenian word based on "oughi/path" which in turn is derived from "oul" to mean a "river-bed". It is understandable, as in the past a river bed would be the most reliable highway between two points. Among the many synonyms for ortho/oughigh the most obscure is "jisht/just" [Note the similarity of the two words?] which in its pure form simply means correct as well. Yet, just as in the English "just" has ended up meaning equitable as well, so is the Armenian word "oughigh". Therefor, by extension it would be safe to assume that "oughigh" as in "oughghapar/orthodox" can also be taken to mean "just" as in justice, although the noun escapes me. The Armenian word for just, equitable is "ardar". As to "jarring my brain", "oughegh" may literraly mean "grey matter". It is assumed that it is based on "sol", "pith", the soft insides of wood/tree. The French "sal/dirty" and the English "soil" are also derived from it, hence, the "dirty/grey matter", brain/oughegh.

KousaKronÎáõë³ÎñûÝ The Armenian word for "celibate/celibacy", usually applied to priestly celibacy while we use "amoury" for lay celibacy. The latter is based on "amousin/marital partner" with the negative prefix "a" to mean without. The Latin/English word is based on the Latin "celeb/caeleb" that means "single life". The Armenian word "kousakron" has a very interesting origin. The root word is also used in words such as "kuys/virgin", "kousaktsoutyun/party", and "mekousi/isolated/alone". This last one may have already given away the mystery. All of the above are based on the root word "kous", "gous" to the practitioners of western orthography/transliteration. The secret may be found in words like "qar-a-kousi" (square). Qarakousi means four sided where the "kous" means "side". "Kousaakron" in fact means "mekousatsats", isolated, withdrawn to the side. You can draw your conclusion as to why we use the word "kouys" to mean virgin. Îáõë, Îáõë³ÏñûÝ, ÎáõÛë, ø³é³ÏáõëÇ, Ø»ÏáõëÇ, Ø»Ïáõë³ó³Í, Îáõë³ÏóáõÃÛáõÝ, Îáõë³ÏÇó, Îáõë³Ïó³Ï³Ý

quote:Originally posted by Domino:Ar could also come from Ur, that mean light, in ancient Babilonian languages. Another view of the origin of Armen, Armani, Armenian.Martiros uses an extremely broad brush but his views may be worth visiting as they open a whole new chapter. Believe it or not they deserve further study. Note; =========== where I edited, abbreviated the text. For more about the subject and more, icluding Haik, Tork etc. at the following site. http://www.angelfire.com/hi/Azgaser/ THE GOD AR It has been shown by some Orientalist- Armenologists in a number of quotations of mythological and historical datat that the native people of the Armenian Highland and the neighboring regions of Asia Minor had, in the earlier periods of paganism, a deity whom they called AR or ARA. In the primitive hunting stage of the life of these natives, the god ARA possesed animal-vegetal charactheristics. Later, with the beginning of agriculture, he acquired a vegetal-solar nature and with the development of irrigation in agriculture and the consolidation of statehood, he became a great war-god and was identified with the sun. This process of change from primitive to complex characteristics, as manifested in the nature of AR(or ARA), is by no means unique in the mythological history of mankind. It has had its close parallels. For example, the god Assur,in the earliest periods of the founding of the city of Assur, had a vegetal (peaceful) nature, but later on, when Assyria became a mighty empire by bloody expeditions, it turned into a fearsome deity and was identified also with sun. Research has revealed that inthe remote past AR (or ARA)was the principal national deity of the Armen people. H.Matikian, N.Adonts, M.Abeghian, G.Ghapantsian, and ohter Armenologists accept that ARA was the native deity of the Armenians. The known Orientalist A.H.Sayce states that AR was the sun-god of the Armenians. In his words:"...it is better to suppose that ER,or ARA,was an Armenian name for the Sun-god, which in later times was confounded with Arios (Nergal)of Ktesias." In this connection H.Matikian writes:"To study ARA the Beautiful means to make inroads into the obscure centuries of the origin of the Armenian people and to examine them." The word Ar-ma-ni is a compound noun, where the first component Ar is none other than the name of the natioanal sun-god of the Armens,-AR- and the second component -ma-(me a varient) ssignifies 'build, make, beget, offspring, son'. Ma, with this meaning, was known to many peoples of the Ner East in antiquity. The goddess of birth and fertility, so well known in Asia Minor, was called by this very same name-Ma.(Ma also occurs in its reduplicated from -Mama or Mami in Assyro-Babylonian inscriptions). This root-word (and also its variant -me) is found also in Sumerian language with the same meaning. It results that Ar-ma (and its variant Ar-me) means 'built by Ar, born of Ar', or 'Ar's offspring', 'Ar's/Ara's son' ('the son of the sun', Arevvordi). The ending -ni (the plural-forming or toponymic suffix-ni is found in Subarian-Hurrian-Nairian place and tribal na We find the plural form ni also in Armenian. It is not unlikely that those of the third millenium B.C. could have Sumerian origin derived from the plural form -e-ne reserved for persons) of Arma-ni (or Arme-ni), as has been mentioned earlier, is plural and toponymic suffix (cf. Mitanni, Supani, Alzini 'Alzinini', Daiaeni, Nihani, etc.). Hence Armani (or Armeni) means 'sons of Ar', that is, 'sons of the sun' or 'the land of the sons of Ar', which is literally 'the land of the sons of the sun'. A similar case is seen in the Armenian words Hayk' and Virk which by virtue of the plural- forming suffix k' mean, respectively, 'Armenians' and 'Georgians' and also 'the land of Armenians (Armenia)' and 'the land of Georgians (Georgia)'. Just as the name Arma-ni appears simply as Arma, without the suffix -ni, in the Alalakh inscriptions, so does it in the form Arme in the Assyrian and Urartian writtings. Since, as it was mentioned above, Ar-ma or Ar-me meant 'built by Ar' (the city or country of Ar), or 'the offspring (or the son) of Ar', and since Ar was also called Ara, it follows that the name Arme could have been pronounced also as Arame, which is, as we already know, the name of the founder of Urartian kingdom, meaning 'the son of the sun', and is preserved by Khorenantsi in the form Aram, as the name of one of the Armenian patriarchs. ============= Here is the translation of that portion of the inscription that interests us: " City of Ataune, I came forth (to invade) against the land of Urme, I conquered the land of Urme, I erected this inscription in the Ar-hi land..." This Arhi ('Arian' or 'Araian') region was in the southeast of Mush and lay in the land of Arme belonged to Ar (or Ara) and that it meant 'born of Ar', or 'built by Ara'. In ancient cuneiform writings sometimes we find statements where a certain king or a famous personality is considered to be the son of his main national god or the son of his nation.Josephus Flavius h In fact, in antiquity, the entire Armenian Higland was replete with names that contained the component Ar or Ara. It is true that in later centuries the Armenian Highland, as a highway between continents, has been subjected to many foreign military, political,and cultural influences and has adopted other deities, even yielding to oblivion the identity of Ara; but still there are many place-names in the country that preserve the memory of Ar or Ara. ============= The following statements and equations summarize it all: 1)If the temple of Ardi-ni(of Musasir)is Haldi's temple, then, Haldi(Aldi)=Ardi 2)If the goddess Nu-ard(the Nu of Ard) is Ara's wife, then Ard(Ardi)=Ara 3)And if Ur-ardi=Ur-aru=Ur-astu, then Ara=Ardi(Artu)=Astu(Astu-as) As we speak about the interrelationships between the names Armani(Armeni), Hyek/Hyeasatan and Urartu,we must have in view the following "divine" formula: Haldi={Ardi-Ara(vegetation,sun)/Astuas(fire)}=Hyek Source:"Armenia,Summer and Subartu" by Prof.,Dr.Martiros Kavukjian Translated from Armenian by N.Ouzounian Edited by the web site's webmaster

quote:Originally posted by sdcheung:There is no word for Armenian in Chinese. we just call Armenia .. Ar-me-ni-A (Phonetically), and the Chiense characters for Armenia mean nothing at all. for the people, it's Armenia plus.."Ren" or people Dear sdc,You seem to be familiar with the Chinese language and culture. I just looked up why during the middle ages the Europeans called China Cathay. "Kitai" for Northern China and "Mangi" for the southern. Marco Polo and later Columbus set out to travel to Cathay. There have been rumors that Chrsitopher Columbus may have been Armenian, we know that he was an Italian from Genoa even if his venture was underwritten by the Spanish queen Isabella. His quest was to find a shorter way to China and the Orient, but more so, and here may be the Armenian connection, a less perilous route. Whereas the land route through Anatolia and the Middle East may have been relatively safe during the Armenian Kingdom of Kilikia it had become increasingly dangerous after the fall of the Kingdom. What do the Chinese call themselves? The Armenians refer to China as Chin-a-stan and Chin-a-tsi for the people, some eastern people call the country "(al)Seen/Sin" and the people "Seeny/Siny". This is not lost on the European languages as we refer to things pertaining to Chinese "sino" as in "Sino-Soviet" etc. Why is this? You may be best qualified to answer the folllowing. There seems to be no consensus on the origing of "kamancha". The folk violin played by many eastern peoples including the Chinese. The stringed instrumemt that is held on the knee and played with a bow much like a viloin. I have had this notion that it may be of Chinese origin. Even though some may suggest Persian, as it seems "kaman" have come to mean "bow" in that language hence "kaman-ja", "little bow". I once asked a colleague of mine. She did not know, she asked her father and came back saying that in the Chinese "violin", I forget the word, was composed of three monosyllabic words that stood for "string-bow-finger". Upon further investigation it turned out that the Chinese word for piano is "gong-kam". The "kam" to mean (musical) "instrument". Would "kamancha" be of Chinese origin made up of three monosyllabic parts like "kam-an-cha"? Do any of the parts make sense?

Sireli Movses. quote:Originally posted by MosJan: quote:Originally posted by Boghos:Dear Movses, Thomas Goltz, a pro-Azeri writer also mentioned that Azerbaijan had chartered flights full of Afghan mercenaries to fight in Karabagh. Next time better try something else. Boghos whats your point ? Boghos I’m not trying nothing I have posted this of the azeri web site. I my self do not need any proof that afghan, Chechen, Russian, Ukrainians have been haired by azeris to fight their war, or do their bloody work. Boghos i have enough proof in my hands, videos and photos of killed and imprisoned fighters. "Next time better try something else" - try what boghosJan ??? I think Boghos was talking to the Azeris when he said; "Next time try something else". Like "try 'mercenaries' who have a better cause than economic gain or a loose religious connection". All those soldiers of fortune with an unfortunate end did not appreciate the Armenian resolution to never again be subjugated. To the heroes of Artsakh it was "liberty or death", and it ended with Liberty for them and "death" to those who have been denying it.Boghos, correct me if I'm wrong.

Adamian, Hovhannes Abgari, 1879-1932 Hye inzhener, gounavor heroustatesutyan, lousaheragroutyan arajin gyutarar. Armenian engineer, first inventor of color television and televideo. Born in Baku to a family of petroleum experts on Feb. 5. During 1899-1904 studied in Munich, Zurich and later in Berlin universities.In 1905 he presented his theory about the conversion of pictues into electrical impulses, according to which he theorized that the amplitude of electronic pictures were dependent on the clarity of the dots. HFor his invention and application of " The direction and reproductivity of electronic pictures" in 1907 he applied for a patent at the Imperial office at Berlin and was granted patent # 197443 in which he had proposed the transmissibility of pictures created by oscillography. Another patent #197183 was granted for his work on two color teletransmission. In 1907 he succeeded to transmit color pictures to a distance of 600KM. He moved to Petersburg and in 1921 at the 8th convetion of the Pan Russian electrical engineers he presented his paper about the feasibility of electronically transmitting of pictures over distances and in 1930 he actually succeeded to transmit pictures from Moscow to Leningrad. In 1925 he presented his theory about color transmissions (separation of colors at the transmission site and re assembling at the receiving end) and successfully demonstrated transmission in three colors. The latter theory was first applied in London in 1928, and in 1945 CBS in the US accepted the concept and used it until 1953. H. Adamian died in Leningrad. His ashes were transferred to Erevan in 1970. Note. The article advises to also see the monograph about Gounavor Heroustatesutyun/Color TV.

quote:Originally posted by Harut:Hovhannes Adamian =======Correct!!! Go to Famous Armenians

This was originally Jacques Chirac.... under the topic of Genocide. I moved it to Language. You will se why. Yes, of course he is Armenian. Unfortunately we also have our Kevork Aboosh. Boghos TUSHAY!!! Very good Boghos. You made me LOL. Very clever. It took me a while but I finally deciphered it. The reason why I spelled "tushay" with a u just as you spelled the u with oo. A-poosh or a-Bush, I would take "georg" the farmer anytime compared to some other city slicker(s). I say "farmer" since "georg" does actually mean that from the Greek geo=earth and erg=work(er). Which brings us back to the discussion we've been having in the Language forum. One of the reasons it took me longer to decipher was that you spelled it in the Istanbul orthography (Kevork) while, as you can see, the proper spelling in Armenian would be "georg", the "v" sound in the middle is beacuse we erroneously pronounce the Armenian "n/o" as vo which was never intended. This gives me the clue as to why we do it, we probably used to pronounce "georg" as "geworg" and since we lost the "w" sound, or rather were influenced by our neighbors like the Persians, Turks and others who do not have the "w" sound", we also ended up losing it. Yes, we did have the "w" once, it was expressed by the "u/hyun" letter as in "kou/cow" which now has become "kov". Boghos, did you know that "Poghos/Polos/Paulus/Paulos/Paul means small/little? One of the reasons why Saul was later renamed Paul (the Apostle). He was of small stature, besides he hellenized an otherwise Judaic name when he converted. This phenomenon can be observed in the Armenian language as in some dialects (kilikian) poloz/boloz/polos means child, little one, but more so even in modern Greek you will notice that many surnames end in -poulos to denote "the little one of", i.e. Spiro-poulos would mean the little one/son/child of Spiro. I am not "pouling" your leg even though you did with your Kevork Aboosh.

quote:Originally posted by MosJan:yes menak mi harts unem inchu Ra - Re = R ? chnayats vor yes te Ra - Re - Gh = R em ogtagortsum He he To us the difference of Ra and Re is obvious. The latter, also known as the soft R is supposed to sound like the English R while Ra is supposed to sound like the Scottish one with a higher vibration of the tongue and deeper inside the mouth. Re is produced with the tip of the tongue next to the teeth. Re is generally reserved for transliterated foreign words and names such as Robert and Albert. It has very limitted use while most Armenian words that have R in them generally use the Ra, even the Re sometimes turns to Ra as in "aRyun" the Re turns to Ra in "aRRnanman". As proof of this open an Armenian dictionary and see how many words begin with Re as opposed to Ra. If any they would be foreign words or names. Vahan, as to your concern about the lack of uniformity and standards, it is a serious concern, that technology runs way ahead of bureaucracy. However when it comes to Armenian language and orthography there may be more than that. The following news item may give us some idea about the problem. ========= ARMENIAN INTELLECTUALS AGAINST DIMINISHING THE ROLE OF ARMENIAN LANGUAGE ArmenPress News Agency April 2 2002 YEREVAN, APRIL 2, ARMENPRESS: The Union of Armenia's Writers, the National Academy of Sciences affiliated Institute of Language, the government Language Inspection and several Yerevan-based higher educational institutions voiced their concern over a bill that is supposed to widen the boundaries of Russian language application in Armenia. Speaking at a special conference, convened to look deeper into the problems of the modern Armenian language, the keynote speakers at the conference called on parliament members to prevent passage of any legislation that would diminish the role and application frames of the Armenian language. The meeting, attended by prominent experts in the Armenian language, condemned various innovations and experiments, which are imposed on the Armenian education system by, as they said, "foreign and alien" forces. The participants of the gathering also condemned the struggle that was started against the Russian language and literature in the early 90-s, which they said was "unacceptable." But they argued that "allocation of broader space for Russian language should not be done at the expense of Armenian language." "Every citizen should speak today at least two foreign languages, Russian and English and others. However, we speak these language, but we are born and live with Armenian," it was stated. ============ There seems to be a consciousness about the sorry state of the language yet, due to prevailing conditions there are also much more urgent problems. Beside that Armenians have been without central leadership for so long have fogotten how to listen and heed to authority. In other words, at the present there are 8 million "linguists" each with their own opinion, each with their own system and each with their own internet site promoting their own version of the Ay Ben Gim, or Ayp Pen Qim, as the case may be. Vahan, if even there were such a thing as an official version by the Academy of linguistics in Yerevan- How many would really adopt it? Harut and Lala thank you for your input. Of course your version is the correct version as Mashtots had intended. There are a couple corrections. First the name of the "U" is supposed to be "hyun" and not "vyun". More importantly though, it was news to me whwn I learned that "yev" is considered as part of the Aybbenaran. I first became aware of the concept when I downloaded the NLS Fonts and found out that they had assigned a single key for it. Before that, all along, I took the concept at its face value, i.e. to mean "and" to separate and distinguish between the original Mesropian letters from later additions. When we recite the Ayb Ben Gim, towards the end we say "Hyun Pyur Qeh" yev "O Fe" since the latter two were added during the 11-12th centuries, in Kilikia. The O was added to simplify as before that we used "AybHyun" to sound like O. Or/day was written as "aur", this is still evident when we decline the word specially in the classical (grabar) style, "or/day" becomes "avur" to mean "daily" or "of the day". The story of Fe is kind of amusing. The first recorded use of the letter was in 1270 AD, it was used to write the name of King Hethum's daughter Fimi. It may be time that we have a single standard. It is kind of frustrating when one thinks of a language like English that is sopken by almost 5 billion people(5 thousand million) with one standard orthography and universal system while the Armenian which is written and spoken by less than 4 million has as many (non)standards and systems. Sometimes we seem to carry our "free and independent spiritedness" a bit too far to the point of anarchy. The last time I looked "independence" and "anarchy" were not synonymous in any dictionary, not even in an Armenian one.

I have read about this project several times yet I still cannot picture the plan. Below a map of Yerevan. Can anybody tell exactly what the plan is? One report indicated that the thoroughfare would connect the Opera Square starting at the corner of Terian and Toumanian streets and end at the Amirian street which is the street next to Hotel Armenia that connects the Republic Square to Mashtots Avenue. And, how does Abovian Street come in the picture.? My understanding is that the new avenue will be kind of diagonal "The statue, erected in 1991, is a landmark between Puskin and Aram streets, passed daily by thousands on Yerevan's busy Abovian Street. Now it is in the way, as plans for a pedestrian thoroughfare linking Republic Square with Opera Square are clearing buildings in between." http://www.cilicia.com/armo5_yerevan.html

quote:Originally posted by wh00t:Does this not make him the only current state leader to make such a proclamation (with the exception of Armenia)? Bravo, Jacques. I am surprised that you are surprised. After all Jacques is Armenian isn't he? Isn't his real name Hakob Shirakatsi?

Vahan, Lala et al. Shat lav gaghapar e. Housam k@ hajoghi. Before the idea catches on and proceeds there are a few issues to consider. The process may work in both directions, as some may wish to improve their English, I am sure there may also be those who would like to improve their Armenian. However some issues must be addressed and rules set, mainly in the issue of transliteration, taradartsoum. It is obvious that those from Yerevan use a transliteration heavily affected by Russian and Slavic while those accustomed to the Diaspora dialects mainly use phonetic. To illustrate, look at Lana's post where she, whether intentionally or by accident, uses the "x" to sound both as the first letter in "xaxox"˳ÕáÕ (grape)just as in the 3rd and 6th letters. To avoid confusion issues of such nature should be addressed and a uniform format adopted.

European may have very little interest where these words may have come from. Some dictionaries, even if they claim to have researched the origins will still only scratch the surface and take whatever is offered them. Some of the better dictionaries define "Ottoman" as the descendents of Osman and that it has come to simply mean "Turkish". True. What they fail to say is that Osman/Othman is in fact an Arabic name and that it goes far beyond the time of Osman. Similarly, most, if not all of the words in the list may and have been taken as of Turkic origin since, as above, Europeans have no reason to question it, except that thse words have been in use in the Armenian Highlands, used by people speaking IE for centuries, if not meliinnia before the world had even heard of the Turk/Turkic. 1. Arm a?tiur “low ground, moist meadow, swamp” - Tur, Tat, Karach, Balk alt “low” a.o. I'm not sure how this word is supposed to be read. 2. Arm a?u “canal” - common Turkic aryk “canal”. "arou" is a anative Armenian word to mean stream. It is from the protoIE "sru", to flow. To make it short, if anything the Turkish word "arik", ditch is a loaned from the Armenian. 3. Arm acux “coal” - common Turkic o:j'ak “stove” (Chuv vu?ax, Tur ocak a.o.), moreover Turkm ?og, Tur ?övg, Kaz šok, Uzb ??g “red-hot coal” a.o. "azux" (adzoukh), coal/charcoal is from the native Armenian word "zux/dzoukh", which although commonly is used to mean smoke is in fact meant soot originally, i.e. remnants of a fire. 4. Arm alap’-em “plunder” - Chuv ulput “lord”, OT, Tur alp, Tat alyp a.o. “hero”. I can't quite make this out. 5. Arm alik’ “wave”, “billow”, Gr alox “furrow” - Tur oluk - “trough”, Chuv valak - “trough” Karach, Balk uuaq “wavy”. "oluk" may as well be loaned from the Armenian as "alik" is the plural form of the native Armenian word "ali" to mean wave. Consider words such "alekotz", stormy etc. Since we are speaking about "alekodz" let us also look at "aleher" (white haired). "ali" (wave) has in time come to mean white based on the appearance of breaking waves that turn into white froth. Once again, we have been using these words when Turkish and Turkic was not even heard this side of the Caspian. We have to take each and every one of them separately and see where we end up, except, we may give them "ojax/ojakh". Shirag if you could convert the words so we can identify them better then we may be better equipped to analyze them. You don't have to rewrite the whole article, just give us the words and their supposed meanings.

quote:Originally posted by Shirag:The contacts between ancient Turkic and Indoeuropean continued after the migration of both ethnic groups from Trans-Caucasia to Eastern Europe. Protoarmenians were the most close neighbours of bearers of the Turkic languages there on the left banks of Dniepr river. Accordingly, the most words of the Tutkic origin were revealed precisely in Armenian language. Through Armenian laguage a part of Turkic words reached even in ancient Greek. The turkisms in Armenian to which can be sometimes found correspondences in Greek are set below: 1. Arm ałtiur “low ground, moist meadow, swamp” - Tur, Tat, Karach, Balk alt “low” a.o. 2. Arm aŕu “canal” - common Turkic aryk “canal”. 3. Arm acux “coal” - common “billow”, Gr alox - Gag. andyzfright” a.o.; 1. Lat (Sabinian) teba “hill” - common Turkic (Chuv tüpe, Tur tepe, Kaz töbe ł ďîä. “moutain, top”). 2. Lat amicuc “friend” - ...........................jărăs“order”, “army”, “detachment” - common Turkic (TuGerm Volk, Eng folk. Very interesting Shirag. Thank you.Where did you find this? The source may be of importance to understand the permise and the purpose of the (very amateur)study. Ajarian would not know whether to laugh or cry , but I'm sure he is turning in his grave as we speak. Some of the letters did not reproduce correctly. It seems like the "r" turned up as "?" etc. If you could provide a key as to what some of the unintelligible words would be with the corrected spelling then it would be so much easier to address each as the case may be. I did notice some inaccuracies and many broad assumptions that may not stand close scrutiny. I will address a few of them in a sparate post.

The majority of Americans may be watching their favorite soap opera, while others may be watcing the stock market and see their dollars turn into dust, some others may be worrying about who will will score the next touch down while most citizens are following the local developments to see if their local and school taxes will go up as their schools need much overdue repairs and upgrades. Schools in America are maintained mainly with local funds as there is no other America to send dollars to maintain the schools as in the Middle East. The majority of Americans may be turned off by world events for a variety of reasons. America is a faraway haven divided by great waters, there is no imminent danger of the crisis spilling over, even if Spt. 11 may have been a wake up call. Most Americans are here primarily because they wanted to avoid the turmoil in Europe and the ME that has been brewing for all of the 20th century and before. Most Americans have found haven on these shores to escape wars, masscares, famines and poverty, and, even though many may still remember what it was that caused their migration yet by now they may have forgotten the real causes and the pictures from those parts have fuzzied so much that many don't understand why Jew and Arab are fighting, why Armenian and Azeri/Turk are still at each other. What is the difference of a Jew and a Paletsinian? How are Turks and Armenians different? Aren't they all some kind of gypsy? Yet there are still those who may be following the events in the ME. They may be grouped in a few categories. 1. Of course there are the Jews. It is self explanatory 2. Those of Arab Heritage. Ditto. 3. Those who may be interested in current events and world histoy. 4. Those who may watch to get some signs of economic perspective, such as the price of gasoline etc. 5. People of various religious persuasion, such as local Muslims etc. but more so some misguided Christian fundamentalist, the likes of jerry Falwell and Patterson who still believe those fables and lies, they call them prophesies, that the "Second Coming" will not happen until Jerusalem is cleansed and the "Promised Land" is reclaimed by the "Chosen People". Of course, the Second Coming means a different thing for different people. The Christians believe that Jesus will come back... while to the Jew it means that the "real Messiah" will come and reestablish the Kingdom of God, the first Messiah, Jesus was an imposter. As prophesies go, it brings to mind the words of the nostalgic song Klilikia; Erb or batsvin drnern houso, Ev mer erkren pakh ta dzmer... Tsankam tesnel zim Kilikia...! 6. Then there is the Armenian who may be keenly interested in what is happening in Paletine as it may have repurcussions on their fate. Beside being so close geographically. However the Armenian may be in a dilemma. Which side best illustrates their quest? Is our fate similar to that of the Palestinian who was thrown out of their ancestral homeland that they had kept and mainteined against alll odds, all the way from the Crusades to Ottoman, British and others. Or is the Armenian quest similar to the Jewish one? A People who had been dreaming of a homeland for centuries? For the Armenian there may be valuable lessons to learn, to emulate and to avoid. It has been over 50 years and the propsect is getting bleaker and bleaker. Until recently the Paletsinians were using words and stones, now they are using real bullets, another 50 years the Jews will be a minoritya and probably crowded out. The reason for that is that the whole thing is based on fables, legends and wishful thinking. Israel may be called a democracy, it is in fact a theocracy based on race and religion... To the Armenian; What are some of the mistakes to avoid and what to emulate?

We read in History of Wine; “It is a sobering thought that some spot on map below, unfamiliar as it is to most modern wine-lovers, may be the very place where man first tasted the wine. Whether it was in Turkey or Armenia that the first wine was made, there is no doubt that the Middle East is wine’s birthplace. Eastern Mediterranean was the France and Italy of the ancient world - until the eighth century and the advent of Islam. The story is not too far fetched as the debate still goes on as to at which Mediterranean coast wine was brewed first. There are evidences in ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, Asia Minor, the Adriatic and even the Italian Penninsula. Most preciptate back to Asia Minor and the Adriatic. The origin of wine may still be a matter of debate yet the origin of the word is not a mystery. It is undoubtedly Armenian.Metsarents wrote; "Gishern anush e, gishern heshtagin.... Louseghen jampen kantsnim es GINOV...." "gini" is the mother of all other IE words to mean "wine". It is a native Armenian word from the proto-IE "voinio", Greek- "oinos", wine, vin, vino, wein, vinum and more. How? The Armenian "gim" ends up as v or w in many other places. "gitun" ends up as "wit/wise" in English via the Greek/Latin "videre". "get"(river) turns into "wet/water" via "unda"(Gr.) and "voda"(Slavic), "gorts" ends up as "work/erg", "gayl" appears as "wolf", and many more. Regardless where wine was first made the name was coined in Armenia.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos:Maybe my sense of humour is not in full gear today...but there are so many topics for April Fool´s jokes. OK, I will not be a grumpy old man (which I am not, old at least ) ) Atta boy Boghos! Yes, may be it should have posted in the Humor section, Black Humor, that is. However it may be time that we also relax and laugh at ourselves a little bit. It is good for one's health. As long as we are at the subject here is another story that shouls have been posted in the Humor section. Look at the date; ARMENIA INTENDS TO BUY 3 ATOM BOMBS AND NUCLEAR DELIVERY VEHICLE FROM USA APRIL 1. The Armenian authorities applied to the USA to buy 3 atom bombs and nuclear delivery vehicle. According to Three smiles, one for each BTW. Does anybody remember Hakob Baronian's April fool story about "Tzrouk/Leach"?

Here is what I remember of Baronian's April Mek story. It may have had the title of "Tzrouk Piti Baktsnem". There was a time when leaches (tzrouk) were one of the best medical devices (It may be coming back. See story in ArmeniaWeek). Barbers were the parctioners of choice just as they also were the local surgeons). On that day of April First the boys had nothing better to do so they decide to play a joke. They tell the local barber that Apisoghom Agha was sick and he needed his services, he needed a leach treatment. The barber gathers his tools, shuts his shop and hurries to Abisoghom's house. Abisoghom is surprised to see him but realizing that it may be time for a shave he let's him in. After many embarassing and comical situations, when the barber asks him where he would like it, and Abisoghom pointing to his his bearded chin, the barber suggests that maybe he better take his pants down as it is the best location. When exasperated Abisoghom finally asks the barber why he had come, he answers; "Yeker em tzrouk baktsenlou", still not realizing that that they both had fallen for a nasty joke until the boys, who had been waiting outside the door yell in unison; "APRIL MEEEEEK"!!! ========== April Fool's Day (April 1) In sixteenth-century France, the start of the new year was observed on April first. It was celebrated in much the same way as it is today with parties and dancing into the late hours of the night. Then in 1562, Pope Gregory introduced a new calendar for the Christian world, and the new year fell on January first. There were some people, however, who hadn't heard or didn't believe the change in the date, so they continued to celebrate New Year's Day on April first. Others played tricks on them and called them "April fools." They sent them on a "fool's errand" or tried to make them believe that something false was true. In France today, April first is called "Poisson d'Avril." French children fool their friends by taping a paper fish to their friends' backs. When the "young fool" discovers this trick, the prankster yells "Poisson d’Avril!" (April Fish!) Today Americans play small tricks on friends and strangers alike on the first of April. One common trick on April Fool's Day, or All Fool's Day, is pointing down to a friend's shoe and saying, "Your shoelace is untied." Teachers in the nineteenth century used to say to pupils, "Look! A flock of geese!" and point up. School children might tell a classmate that school has been canceled. Whatever the trick, if the innocent victim falls for the joke the prankster yells, "April Fool! " The "fools' errands" we play on people are practical jokes. Putting salt in the sugar bowl for the next person is not a nice trick to play on a stranger. College students set their clocks an hour behind, so their roommates show up to the wrong class - or not at all. Some practical jokes are kept up the whole day before the victim realizes what day it is. Most April Fool jokes are in good fun and not meant to harm anyone. The most clever April Fool joke is the one where everyone laughs, especially the person upon whom the joke is played. "The first of April is the day we remember what we are the other 364 days of the year. " - American humorist Mark Twain

quote:Originally posted by Arpa: quote:Originally posted by Boghos:No, I don't remember Baronian's story. But I should, he is one of my favourite Armenian writers. BTW, do you know how to say "grenade" in Turkish ? I don't know if there is a new technical word for it but "el bombasi", i.e. "hand bomb" will probbaly do. For Baronian's April Mek story see Humor. As much as I can remember.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos:No, I don't remember Baronian's story. But I should, he is one of my favourite Armenian writers. BTW, do you know how to say "grenade" in Turkish ?

I changed the subject topic. Below, my takeoff on the subject. Let's see how many variatons of AN ARMENIAN CORPO RATION we can think of. > AN ARKANSAS CORPORATION: > You have two cows. > That one on the left is kinda cute. AN ARMENIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. Turns out you don't own them. AN ARMENIAN CORPORATION: What is a korporatsia?

I thought I had seen that portrait before and I had read who had composed it and when. It is obviously a composition, a decoupage since very few of the pictured lived at the same time in the same place. Ironically Abovian who looks the youngest of them is in fact the oldest. It seems like the faces from the available photographs were pasted over painted bodies, just as the props and the decor were painted. One must admit it is a good paste job. From left to right, as identified in the postcard, their birth and death dates. I will also place in parantheses the age of the person at the time Khachatur vanished. Raffi 1835-1888 [13] Mikael Nalpantian 1829-1866 [19] M. Peshiktashlian 1828-1868 [20] Grigor Arzruni 18451892 [3] Fr. Alishan 1820-1901 [28] Cath. M.Khrimian 1820-1907 [28] R. Patkanian 1830-1892 [18] St. Nazarian 1812-1879 [36] K. Avovian 1809-1848 [39 Obviously] The next question. What are the paintings hanging on the walls?

Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy A spy thriller by John LeCarre. Lets tinker with "tailor" a bit. It does mean dressmaker from the French "tailler", to "cut" which in turn- from the Latin "taliare", to cut. The Websters doe not even mention "taylor" (spelled with the Y) which seems to be the Scottish form of spelling. It seems "taylor" has lost its original meaning of "tailor". It is now just a family name. If Ms. Taylor has even a drop of Armenian blood it must be from her being a highlander just as Armenians are from the Highlands. Eliz being Armenian is a silly old parlor game that Armenians play when they have had a few shots and have nothing better to do. Speaking of tongue in cheek and sarcasm here are a few more. Elizabeth may not be Armenian but Herbert Von Karajan, Hans Guderian and the most celebrated of all, Bach were Armenian. His original name was Hovannes Sebastatsi Bachian:) Not to forget that Hitler was Turkish, his birth name was Adel Itler:) Now, "with all seriousness aside", as Steve Allen used to say... hello i was reading some on-line stuff by ara baliozian, where he mentioned casually that elisabeth taylor was of armenian heritage and that her real name was yeghishapet terzakian (the surname sounds like the turkish for tailor, terzi). could anyone post more info on that please? regards, -------------------- ali suat Yes Ali, terzi and derdzak are the same, they both mean tailor, dressmaker. Many people of the region use the word in some form or other such as "darzak" in Persian. As is the custom of the average Armenian the word has been dismissed as being from the Turkish, (terzi) or the Persian. The jury may still be out but from all indications it seems the word is native Armenian based on "derz", or "derzan" which means thread. There are many provincial variations of the word one of which "derzik" where the Turkish may have originated. There are also are many words based on the root such as "daraz" to mean robe, uniform etc. In its loose application sometimes "derzak" have been used to also mean cobbler, shoe maker. This leads us into another temptation. Another misconception is that "koshker/koshkar", cobbler, shoemaker etc. is also from the Turkish. This may not be further from the truth. The word is based on "koshik"-shoe and "kar/karel" to sew. The original form was "koshk-a-kar", "sewer of shoes" which in time lost some letters, namely the a and the k in the middle and was contracted to "koshkar". Even now in proper Armenian a shoemaker is referred as "koshkakar" while "koshkar" is used to mean "shoe repairer" of old worn out shoes. Alternately, some people would use "hnakarkat" (baed on "hin"-old" to mean the latter just as the Turkish word "eskiji" which more often than not may be used as a "rpairer of old clothes". Elizabeth may not be Armenian, I can't see how she would bring ay honor or dignity anyway, but many Armenians have the surname Terzian the most famous of them may be Thomas Terzian, poet writer who wrote the libretto to Chukhajian's Verdiesque Opera Arshak II. He wrote it both in Armenian and Italian as he was educated in Venice at the Mkhitarist institute.

Originally posted by Harut: hello people. i'm thinking about changing my last name, and i'm asking for your suggestions. i want something more Armenian, something MODERN, something unique, and maybe sensational. things that you may take into consideration: -i was born in Yerevan -i hope one day i'll become computer programmer or something of that sort -i like math -i'm friendly -i do crazy stuff sometimes ===== Anania Shirakatsi!!! It fits you to a tee, even the "crazu stuff", he gazed at the stars too. ------- The Heritage Mathematics & Astronomy 'Arithmetics' of Anania Shirakatsi, a well - known scholar of the 7th century, stands out among the works on exact sciences. It containstables of the four arithmetical operations and is the oldest preserved complete manuscript on arithmetics. Such works of Shirakatsi, as 'Cosmography', 'On the signs of the Zodiac', 'On the clouds and atmospheric signs', ' On the movemenr of the Sun', 'On the meteorological phenomena', 'On the Milky Way', etc., are also preserved. Shirakatsi mentions the principles of chronology of the Egyptians, Jews, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans and Ethiopians, he speaks of the planetary motion and periodicity of lunar and solar eclipses. Accepting the roundness of the Earth, Shirakatsi expresses the opinion, that the Sun illuminates both spheres of the Earth at different times and when it is night on one half, it is day on the other. He considers the Milky Way 'a mass of densely distributed and faintly luminous stars'. Shirakatsi agrees with those scientists, who believed that 'the moon has no natural light and reflects the light of the Sun'. He explains the solar eclipse as the result of the Moon's position between the Sun and the Earth. Shirakatsi gives interesting explanation to the rain, snow, hail, thunder, wind, earthquake and other natural phenomena. Shirakatsi has also written a number of works on the calendar, measurement, geography, history. In his book 'Weights and measures' together with the Armenian system of weights and measures the corresponding Greek, Jewish, Assyrian and Persian systems are given. It gives an opportunity to elucidate the sizes of the Eratosthenes' stadium, an issue in the world science. Among the mathematical works of the 11th century author Hovhannes Sarkavag 'Polygonal Numbers' is of exceptional interest. Its oldest copy is preserved at the Matenadaran (manuscript number 4150). It shows, that the theory of numbers was taught at the Armenian schools. Hovhannes Sarkavag has also introduced the reform of the Armenian calendar. The problems of cosmography and calendar were also discussed by the 12th century author Nerses Shnorhali in his work 'About the Sky and its decoration', by the 13th century author Hovhannes Yerzenkatsi Pluz in his work 'About the heavenly movement', by the 14th century scholar Hakob Ghrimetsi, by another author of the 14th century, the pupil of Hovhan Vorotnetsi, Mekhitar in his work 'Khrakhtshanakanner', by the 15th century scholar Sargis the Philosopher and others. The Armenian mathematicians have translated the best works of the world mathematical sciences. In the manuscript number 4166, copied in the 12th century, several chapters of 'The Elements of Geometry' by the famous Greek mathematician Euclid (3rd century BC) have been preserved in the Armenian translation. Some originals of foreign mathematicians' works are also preserved at the Matenadaran. Among the Arabic manuscripts, for example, is the 'Kitab al - Najat' ('The Book of Salvation'), written by famous Avicenna (Abu Ali ibn - Sina).

quote:Originally posted by MosJan:HAgarag haw do you find this staf ??? Below one of several sites that address Princess Di's Armenian ancestryAs to Ali's question I will address that in a separate post. ====== http://www.cilicia.com/armo22_princess_diana.html Article detailing Princess Di's Armenian ancestry. (Yes, this is a case of Eshun bochin boch') From: Levon K Topouzian Dear Friends: We are all saddened for the loss of Lady Diana. Hereby I would like to share some factual information. From the writings about Princess Diana I perceived, some years ago, maybe chauvinistically, the remnants of her Armenian genes. Even though she was only 1/64th Armenian (as per the article herewith) she seems to have many of the strong characteristics of Armenian women. Thus her children and perhaps the future king of England will be blessed with Armenian genes. Her Armenian ancestry is traced to Eliza Kewark (an Armenian lady from India). Some years ago letters with "funny writing" were found in the ancestral home of the late Princess Di. After investigation they realized that it was "Armenian" and that they were written by grandmother Eliza to her children and grandchildren... Eliza Kewark, married the Scottish merchant, Theodore Forbes. From this union was born Kathleen Scott Forbes who married James Crombie from Aberdeen. They had a daughter Jane who married David Littlejohn and their daughter Ruth married William Gill. Ruth Sylvia Gill, the grandmother of Lady Diana, married Lord Fermoy and their daughter, Frances Ruth Burke Roach married the 8th Earl of Spencer who is the father of Lady Diana. It is noteworthy that Eliza Kewark was also referred to as "Mrs. Forbesian" (a characteristic ending of Armenian surnames).