THOTH

MJ - I agree with you. Funny how Armenians can agree that things are pretty messed up - but will absolutly refuse any assistance to clean things up. (Its not just Armenians I realize who are like this). Its so important that they get it right IMO. Armenian democracy is vital for the nation and for its future bargaining position vis a vis the West. Without it I fear others will easily be able to scapegoat and margianilze us again. We are in very precarious times...

Kasiopea - well LA is somewhat far from me right now (US is a big place) - but I certainly am interested in CD availability...

New interesting development...(oh & BTW please don't start a new topic with each post - you can do "add reply" and it will continue in this same thread. http://www.menewsline.com/stories/2003/feb...ry/02_20_1.html

Varduhi - I hadn't realized till now that you are only 12 years old. But all your posts makes some sense now...knowing that...

Sounds very cool (but have never heard them or even heard of them) - thoguh sounds like music that I would very much like. By Italian progressive - are you refering to bands like PFM and Eloy?

Hyebruin - Do you really believe that all or even most all Arabs/Muslims really hate us and/or want us dead? I think this is a far oversimplistic and inaccurate view. Unlike you - obviously - I know a number of Middle Easterners of various nationalities. Let mne just say - the Al Queda supports are a distinct minority (and no one whom I know/have met falls into that category). You also generalize and make statements about Turks that are just based on ignorance. Sure - i am as frustrated as you with the Turkish Government denial campaign and other actions. I also understand that most Turks are just not exposed to facts in the Armenian issue and basically buy into their pre-fab position. But you are mistaken if you deny that there are many Turks who believe otherwise. Contrary to your opinion there are indeed many smart/educated Turks - both in Turkey and in the world - not all are mouth foaming nationalists. Actually I think that there are likely more Turks in Turkey who are more easy going about these issues (ie not having hatred/bias towards Armenians) then outside - but its certainly mixed. And just to let you know - I have Turkish friends both here in the States and in Turkey. Obviously given the environment over there - there are certain limits to what one can do (and who is going to stick their neck out in the current environment - things have to evolve more still - there is yet any perceivable benfit...) - but you might be surprised what some Turks are up to on our behalf... And it is very apparent that you have little understanding of Turks (at least those who live in Turkey). Turkey is far from a fundementalist nation. In fact - most urban Turks are likely a good deal more liberal in their social outlook then you - or at least then the typical Armenian of today...Turks love to party and can be very loose and fun loving in social settings - while Armenians can sometimes be more uptight and unwilling to let go (in my observation). But, by and large, the Turks are very much like us in most ways...you may not appreciate this - but its true...

hyebruin - Don't assume that all Turks (or even all Arabs/Muslims etc) are just one breed that all think alike. In fact there are many enlightened Turks who hope for justice and further enlightenment for their people. These are people we should not be dismissing outof hand but encouraging. Obviously they realize that the scenes of turkish violence against Armenians will bnot be generally well recieved and are trying to hedge thier bets a little. I think that Ararat could be a huge sucess in Turkey - probably garnerng an auddience far greater there then it has in the states (if it could be shown in more than a theeater or two...actually its likely to be seen be just a few I imagine - though protested against and commentaried against by many more...(I'm not entirely fooled into thinking that these types of anti-Armenain attitudes are not widespread in Turkey). Just the same I think you might be surprised at how many Turks have sympathy for our position and understand that failure to recognize this instance of the past and this type of behavior and attitudes is certainly holding Turkey back. But do not just think them barbarains and such - they are not - by and large, for the most part, they are just like the rest of us....

Accelerated - Sweet. I am a big fan of the Mazda6 - great car! We actualy might have been getting one but my wife has nixed getting another Mazda - she wants something "different" (we have a Millenia S...but looks like its on its last legs - or at least is too $$$ to repair right now). She also wants a wagon and the Mazda6 wagon is still many months (up to 1 year) away here - it looks very sharp BTW. Did I mention that we are actually in the market for 2 ccars - one this Spring and another next winter. Wife really wants a wagon - and whe wants German vice Japanese. She has been talking Jetta/Passat...but I have her already agreeing on the Audi A4! Now - I have found a used (low milage - 1K) S4 Avant (wagon) at basically the same price that I can get an A4 new at - well - for me the chooice is clear...now comes the convincing. And this way I may still getr my WRX STi next winter! Can you imagine - both an S$ Wagon and WRX Sti in the driveway! I'd be in (drivers) heaven! Even "settling" for the A4 would be OK (I mean come now - great car!) - but frankly - for the perhaps $8-10K US less - I'd be happy with the Mazda6...but a chance for the S4 i will not pass up(wife just gave me the OK to negotiate on it BTW - just now! LOL) BTW - have you seen the new S4 - man! HP up nearly 100hp over old one (unchipped of course!) etc etc - of course the price here in the US ($45K +) is prohibitive IMO...(and I'd likely "take" the M3 for that/near that...) [ February 19, 2003, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

This will be a very interesting one to track. I think Egoyan is right to accept no edits of the flick...

I enjoy tatoos...on other people - LOL - I'm not much for ornamentation myself...peircing I'm more mixed on...but its your body I guess...there are a few that definatly do not do it for me. Like when I was younger a good friend of mine had this huge safety pin thing right through his cheek (remember punk!) - nah...I also have some artist friends who do tatooing and have some pretty elaborate ones themselves. They go to the conventions and such as well whcih I understand are pretty wild. I have no hesitation asking folks to show me their tatoos - LOL. Most are pretty into it (show & tell)...its a good way to get a gal to drop some clothing too - can be fun to be a voyer! I've gotten looks at some pretty intimate tatoos! (Yeah - I love the art - LOL!) I'm not surprised that younger Armenians are doing it...typical rebel against the conservative parents response...and its certainly becomming more a mainstream part of our culture. So yeah nairi - you really must show us sometime!

I don't really understand your reason for this post...but whatever... I was never a big Clinton fan - on a personal or political level - and slick Willy is an apt title. He certainly knew had to pander to popular opinion. His (lack of) foriegn policy was a joke...etc etc And I understand his benefiting from an economic upswing not entitrely of his own doing...However, I think that you underestimate his fiscal conservatism and belt tightening that ceretainly had positive impact - unlike Bush/Regean Republicans that talk being fiscally conservative but can't help always record deficit spending and pushing programs (defense/oil etc) and tax cuts to help their supporters. Sad really. Another area where you are wrong is Bin Ladin. Clinton's folks were well aware of his threat and were on the verge of implementing policies to actively pursue this guy & Taliban. These were nixed by Bush adminstration. This is fact. [ February 14, 2003, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

Well I totally and fully agree with the concept (and practice) of buying and supporting importation of products from Armenia as an alternative to buying products from Turkey (or elsewhere). Perhaps what we might do when we see shops with these Turkieh (and other) products where we know similar (or identical) Armenian ones is to provide a distributor or other information to obtain these products. But you know as well as I - many of these shop owners will buy from who they have before out of habit and/or laziness or will be unwilling because of increased costs or such...but perhaps you/we can have some sucess. There are no Armenian groceries or such where I live now. Sure some Lebanese and Egyptian...and others such as this - but no Armenian. They do carry some Armenian products and I have been vocal in asking for and purchasing such. Recently one (Palestinian) asked me if I knew a source for Armenian Soujouk because he said is was certainly the best (I didn't...can anyone help me here?). He promissed to make me some scumptious creatin using SOujouk if I could find a source for him!

I'm of a very mixed mind about this one. On one hand I certainly see boycotting Turkish products as a justified response to the Turkish blockade of Armenia (and perhaps even as a protest against Armenian Genocide denial). On the other hand it seems to me that if one does a boycott it must either cause the nation/corporation/activity/whatever being boycotted some noticable harm or it must be useful for generating publicity concerning whatever grievance was cause to the boycott - or both. I guess I can also see just the symbolism of the boycott - a sort of feel good thing - having value for those doing it...(if one really wants to give up those Camels and such...) I don't much see the Armenian community on its own (lack of our business) doing #1 - bringing Turkish exports to their knees - or doing any significant harm realy...but perhaps I am wrong - perhaps Armenian Diaspora purchases are a significant percentage of sales for exported Turkish products (I am guilty BTW)...as for #2 - making a scene of it - calling attention to the Blockade or to Genocide denial...well...maybe...but a boycott in and of itself isn't enough - IMO - and in this time period it is likely to be way overshadowed by events in the Middle East, terrorism concerns in general and concerns with the economy (at least here in the States). As for #3 - makes us feel good - a strike at the "enemy" etc...well I suppose - though at best it seems symbolic without effect. The bottom line is that Turkey is producing products with appeal to Armenians (in the Diaspora - and I suspect in Armenia). And in fact trade/promotion of trade - (particularly Armenia-Turkey) is, I think, a good thing. We want barriers to fall I think - not just be perpetuated. And many of those (Turks) entering into trade agreeements (with Armenia) and trying to get their products out have and are, I think, at the forefront of normalizing relations etc - and are a force for reproachment. So if we boycott - who (if anyone) are we going to hurt? The Turkish economy (just a little?) - doubt it...Joe Turk jelly maker or fig grower? Is he really the enemy? So I think we need to think further on this. I for one buy rose and fig jam, figs, stuffed grape leaves and other stuff made in Turkey - even some wool pajamas (very warm and nice & soft...) I bought recently were from Turkey (though I didn't know it until after the fact). I have no problem with this per se - but again I can see both the justification for and possible effect of a boycott (maybe - butr only if really done right...)...though I'm not just sure if it really can be pulled off in any meaningful way or if it might even proove detrimental. Don't know.

quote:Originally posted by Sip:I am just a bit curious to know where all these "anti-war" people were when Sadam was burning village after village with chemical weapons during the Iran war. Can't answer that one. The "pro-war" folks were supplying Saddam however... [ February 12, 2003, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

Congrats Nairi! I know you worked hard for this. For all our talk of driving fast/crazy etc - I don't want to give you the wrong impression. Driving is a very serious responsibility. Its one of the only activities that you normally engage in where you could actually kill or seriously hurt people including yourself. Any lapse or safety failure could screw up your life and that of others. You always have to be aware of this when driving on the road. Its truly serious business. Don't think that I am not aware of this whenever I get behind the wheel. I do what I do because I have gained the skills by a serious approach and I urge you to always be aware of and maintain such a perspective. Sorry to be so serious - as driving can be great fun and a great freedom. I absolutly love to drive. Once you get a little experience I suggest getting together with some friends and doing a road trip! It can be a very fun and very memorable experience.

Funny - you have been given opposite advice by Azat & myself. Call/do not call. I would say do not call if you are truly ready to let go. If not - then one has to try to communicate - no? There is nothing wrong with being the one to make the first move. Sometimes neither makes the move and oppurtunity is lost. But as Azat states he is not the only fish in the sea (and I do not buy this destiny of love thing - it is mostly you I think - who is a very caring person and can probably love easily). You sound young. You must realize that we all change with the passage of time and experience. You have a whole world/life ahead of you. Do not be sad. (I will not be sad in this world no more today) (did I get it right?) And if you really want to make someones day - ask Azat for his phone number/eamil or such....(joke) Again take care - no worries....

Give him a call - talk it out. But yu must ultimatly decide what is best for you. Also - you seem like your going somewhat overboard - not having children statement - etc...and why would loving your children make you love him any less - etc etc. I would be careful if I were you and try to stay more balanced - otherwise you are in for many more deep hurts. You must think of yuourself and realize that life offers much - a wide array of joys - do not become too obsessed with any one thing or any one person. it is possible to love someone without taking it too far - which it seems to me you have done. Good luck & take care.

Thanks for this post MJ quote:Originally posted by MJ:INTERNATIONAL STUDY AFFIRMS 1915 ARMENIAN GENOCIDE By Emil Danielyan A crucial independent study commissioned by the controversial Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation Commission (TARC) has concluded that the 1915 slaughter of some 1.5 million Armenians in Ottoman Turkey fits the internationally accepted definition of genocide. ... The ICTJ report makes it clear that although the term “genocide” defined by the 1948 convention is applicable to the bloody events of 1915, the Armenians can not use it to lay “legal, financial or territorial claim” to Turkey. “The Genocide Convention contains no provision mandating its retroactive application,” it explains.[/url] Fascinating. This (top part) should get more publicity - and perhaps in time it shall. The last bit (no claims) strikes me as odd however. Even though I don't believe that territorial claims are possible - I certainly think that individuals/families etc should be entitled to something (even if symbolic...or composed of some kind of property concessions or what not). And I certainly don't think that this organization can judge the appropriatness of such. I look foreward to finding out more about this study/report - including specific findings, evidence used (and what if anything was discarded) and more about the memebers - who are these folkks - how scholarly/how legit - etc...

hey Accel - my kids play Warcraft 3 - LOL - not that I wouldn't enjoy it - looks very cool actually. I'm just into too many other things and am afraid of getting hooked. i have a few friends who are major Everquest junkies - and I mean major major - leveled out with several characters - play 3-5 hours+ per night...etc etc...

We test drove the WRX this weekend - and the wife loved it! (It did drive great). Now she wants one....but not the STi of course...LOL - She can't see why anyone would want any more power! and she is afraid about what I would do in such a car (and thinks it will be a bad example for the kids! - they already urge me on - "can't you go any faster dad?" "Well - yes - but not with you in the car..."). And of course - like me - she prefers the styling of the wagon (not offered in the STi)...but we shall see. Probably won't be buying right away...and I just might put a deposit on an STi anyway (can always get it back...). Afterall she did say that to her she couldn't care about the extra power etc of the STi... We did talk safety BTW - and while I made the points she wasn't fully buying it. The dealer guy actually pushed the regular WRX to a point - wanted to sell one now - and the STi's will all get sold - no problem...though he was very enthused about the STI - almost too much so - making the wife suspicious/warry about buying a "race car" etc...LOL - can't win I guess. I would be very happy with the WRX - it is reasonably fast - handles extremely well - and I likely could make a deal on it...however I would always be thinking what could have been - for a measly few thou more...anyway - we shall see (at least she is very positive about the WRX - and no more thoughts of a Jetta wagon or some such...LOL!)

quote:Originally posted by Sasun:

quote:Originally posted by axel: quote:Originally posted by axel: Solzhenitsyn beieves that mankind will always be children/sheep and require a shepard. This view has little "faith" in man. I think that it is sad that he/we feel that we must have some outside shoolmarm to disciplin us otherwise we will misbehave. If we are so rotten they why even bother? As for us being overly materialistic & such - yes I would agree with much he says. But I think that if you look to the nooks and crannies of our society to the people who are living more frugally and who are doing things for others and for higher ideals etc you will find that as often as not they are humanists/pagans or such and not just Christians. I know many who are such and who espouse and live and work towards some very high ideals. Most of these folks are not Christian (though some are). So what i am saying is that it is possbile to be ethical and to live with high ethical pricipals and to reject the materialistic overide without bowing down to any higher (ficticious) power. All I have time for now.

quote:Originally posted by axel: [ February 07, 2003, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

quote:Originally posted by axel: I'm actually being serious. I basically agree with this paragraph of yours. However I will add to your "no human system is perfect" - that neither are humans - thus laws certainly serve a purpose. But I fully agree - no human system is perfect - and ideology only goes so far/cannot be followed blindly. Thus capitalism - in its unfettered form - is no good - it has no provision for the "have nots" and those at the bottom etc - so it (at the very least) needs some form of compasionate overlay (perhaps using some socialistic concepts - [no?] - as most all modern cpatalistic societies have done - with perhaps some varying degrees of sucess) Society based on ethical principals - OK =- but of course many would argue that that is what we have.... And the "freely adopted" - isn't it basically so? (this philosophy makes you an Anarchist BTW...) - an often misunderstood philosophy. It does not mean - no government - but full participatory & dynamic govenemt...perpetual revolution? (Trotsky BTW in case you didn't get the referennce)...of course a key piece is a sort of a contract among all citizens giving everyone ownership/responsibility and allowing for exile (essentially) if one begins to no longer wish association..etc etc

quote:Originally posted by axel: Materialism and socialism go hand in hand. Contemporary capitalism pursues the same goal as socialism, only with more sophisticated means, and that goal is bringing humanity back to bestiality. Couple of comments Axel. First if you don't like socialism and you don't like capitalism - what are you advocating? Bring back the monarchy? I don't get it.... In another post you call socialism unhuman. But aren't you one of the ones who says that human's are effectively evil? So perhaps you are telling us that socialism is a good thing. (I'm no socialist BTW - per se) And are you so sure that we are different from "beasts"? Again - not sure if we are devolving or improving in your eyes. Perhaps beasts are honest and straightforward - no games or such...don't know...