THOTH

Well its finally here - or will be in June/July - and I think I'll be getting one - Subaru WRX STi - American version will have 2.4L engine - 300Hp/300lbft torque - AWD - driver controlled limited slip differential - all kinds of goodies! BTW Accelerated - 2.5L engine - etc - first offered in US model. This puppy is even more advanced/better performing then Jap model (or anywhere else) - incl AWD. And it will beat the crap out of the Mits! http://impreza.subaru.com/microsites/impre...s/news_main.jsp [ January 28, 2003, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

Go Gary!!!! http://www.fide.com/default.asp?curpage=1&...&x=9.426296E-03

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Interesting. The very typical Turksih response - can't they understand how this perpetuates negative attitudes held against them? Anyway - I am waiting for this documentary to be aired in the US. Eventually I assume... Here are the comments I just submitted: Imagine if you had aired a program concerning the Holocaust and Germans responded with counter arguments and denials. These Turks are living in a dream world of their own making. They have not had to face up to the crimes of their forefathers and their society is not mature enough to do so unless forced. Contrary to these spurious claims there is a tremendous amount of eyewitness evidence proving these crimes. Additionally, right after the war the Turks themselves tried and convicted many of the perpetrators prior to Ataturk launching a new round of massacres. The Turks here only repeat their governments spurious propaganda of the time that was trumpeted without any truth or evidence - where any Armenian resistance to massacre was counted as a massive uprising against Ottoman Turkish rule. These untruths were used to fire up the masses against the Armenians who were innocent victims of tragic time and circumstance. Even accounts of the german and Austrian allies to the Turks during the war prove that there was no Armenian uprising and that what occured was a deliberate genocidal slaughter of the nature and scale of the Holocaust of WW2.

quote:Originally posted by axel: quote:Well I don't see any believers or non - or whatever as "enemy". We are all human beings who are trying to make the best of our lives here on earth.If I follow your reasoning, I guess you wouldn't have seen Talaat as an enemy. And what about Hitler you keep refering to? just wondering...Read what I wrote. I specificaly refered to those who would mean me & mine harm...

quote:Originally posted by axel: quote:What explanations? I do not recall having mentioned any. Well lets see what you have previously stated in this thread: OK - can't complain about this...but you are not following this - you are passing judgement...

quote:Originally posted by axel: quote:Well I don't see any believers or non - or whatever as "enemy". We are all human beings who are trying to make the best of our lives here on earth.This was not my point. In fact, the human being is not reducible to its nature. However, one can only acknowledge there are forces working against Orthodoxy. Or should I consider satanist-inspired philosophies as Christian-friendly?Yes I guess you must. Anything not of your belief must be Satanic (influenced) etc. Time to whip out that sword and fire...

Its funny axel - you name the Pope and others as "The enemy" - I assume you would include Atheists, Buddists, Hindu, Muslim. Mormon, Pagan, etc in this list as well. Well I don't see any believers or non - or whatever as "enemy". We are all human beings who are trying to make the best of our lives here on earth. I find much to consider in the Buddist maxim - to minimize suffering... And as such i see no reason to declare anyone who believes or lives differently then me automatically as "the enemy" - unless its some crazy mono-theist who is so exclusive in theri belief that they wish to punish infidels, heritics and those who believe differently then they....

Sasun - Here is some stuf on E C Prophet and Christian reincarnation: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen07.html I've actually read the Lost Years of Jesus (I was unimpressed....seemed pretty made up/concocted...but a good story). I also know people whom they consulted with on building their (huge) bomb shelter complex...

quote:Originally posted by axel: quote:It seems that most all Christians (& Monotheists in general) rule out any but their narrow interpretive belief as the "true" one....Well, this seems to be the view of atheists like you... Your atheist belief is the "true" one, isn't it?What am I claiming? What lofty explanations have I given that I am sticking to? What beyond admiting that we have only a very incomplete understanding of our universe (with Scientific methods giving us some insights)...and all I am doing is rejecting your pre-canned explanations that it seems even you admit cannot be proven in any way shape or form. Have I - or other Atheists been launching crusades, inquisitions, trials or heritics etc - because somebody believes differetnly then I? Yes I am Armenian - 1/2 (just like "our" champs Agassi & Kasparov!!!!) LOL

quote:Originally posted by Sasun: quote:Originally posted by Sasun: quote:Originally posted by Sasun: quote:Originally posted by Sasun: quote:Originally posted by Sasun: quote:Originally posted by Sasun: Question - Can one have "Christ consciousness" without there actually having been a Christ or a Christ who is divine? (ie Thomas Jefferson re-wrote the Bible to include the moral lessons and leave out the Anthropomorphic "God"). And is conciousness enough - or must you do like commanded in the Bible - give yourself utterly...and this means (perhaps) the ascetic lifestyle - certainly dedicating your entire life to helping the needy, sick, poor, less fourtunate...etc etc - and foregoing luxuries (I mean indulging in material excess etc - when millions are starving & sick and need your attention....) quote:Originally posted by Sasun: quote:Originally posted by Sasun: quote:Originally posted by Sasun: quote:Originally posted by Sasun: Oh for Christian Reincarnation (Is this what you beleive?): http://reluctant-messenger.com/main.htm http://reluctant-messenger.com/origen.html

quote:Originally posted by axel:I still fail to see what Hitler, new age and luciferian theosophy, jesus-is-lord.com, the spanish inquisition and John Paul II have to do with Christian Orthodoxy and Armenian Christianity (except being their enemy). I believe I've already cited a passage about false prophets. Do I need to repeat myself? PS: As for my previous message, it was intended as humor. I thought it would be interpreted as such. Yes - the key point you make: "(except being their enemy)" It seems that most all Christians (& Monotheists in general) rule out any but their narrow interpretive belief as the "true" one.... The jesus-is-lord.com people sure believe that they and only they know what a Christian is and what a Christian should believe...(and I think that their interpretation has great merit - which is why I am largely aborred by Christianity. Oh - more on Hitler as a Christian: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/joh...onofhitler.html http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/sn-hitler.html And finaly - an answer to these claims that you and others here have raised that Atheists can have no morality or meaning in life - http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/kei...onceptions.html

A dude who goes by Cygnus has a very entertaining site on debunking the Bible. http://www.cygnus-study.com/ Here is an excerpt where he discuses agnostiscim and his (non) belief: "I put Christianity to the ultimate test. I demand absolute verifiable proof for me to accept it. Since it is not possible to get from Christianity, Christianity is rejected. Why should my belief in Deism/Pantheism be any different? Recently I visited another forum and came to a breakthrough into Agnosticism. I wrote: Let's face it - admitting that we do not know something is not easy. Admitting that we do not know something like this can send many people over the edge. They may have a hard time dealing with this newfound lack of knowledge, but they will finally be reaching a point of honesty that those who claim to know the truth can not know. I am an Agnostic. For those who do not know what an Agnostic is, here is a definition: Agnosticism Ag*nos"ti*cism, n. That doctrine which, professing ignorance, neither asserts nor denies. Specifically: (Theol.) The doctrine that the existence of a personal Deity, an unseen world, etc., can be neither proved nor disproved, because of the necessary limits of the human mind (as sometimes charged upon Hamilton and Mansel), or because of the insufficiency of the evidence furnished by physical and physical data, to warrant a positive conclusion (as taught by the school of Herbert Spencer); -- opposed alike dogmatic skepticism and to dogmatic theism. It is not that I believe or disbelieve. It is simply that the jury is still out and might remain out until death. Cygnus - 4.29.99 UPDATED 2.22.00 It is nearly a year since I wrote this piece and many of it holds true to this day. I do still classify myself as an Agnostic but I also classify myself as an Atheist, too. While this might not make sense at first, let me explain: Of all of the gods that I have read about and encountered its followers, there is not one that I believe exists. I believe that they are all contradictory to nature, science and logic on some level. Some gods, the Christian one, for example, are more contradictory than others. As this is my belief and because I do not have a system of theism, I consider myself an Atheist. I maintain my label of Agnostic as I have not been everywhere and do not know all that there is to know. While I believe that the possibility of a creator-god is highly unlikely, I do not have all of the answers and recognize that the possibility exists - however slim - that there is one."

quote:Originally posted by baboyan:the more turks to come here the less there will to kill in time of war and more to fight here Are these the words of a "true" Christian? LOL

Sasun - Again you are incorrect. I have been aware of Sri Chimnoy since the 1970s. He has been guru to Santanna and other rock stars... You are corrct however - his words do absolutly nothing at all to me. they may be nice words - and I might appreciate them more - if they were related to something real... You have expressed intolerence of Atheists. I understand implicity the concepts of Christ conciesness. Not only have I once attempted to become "Born Again" - and failed - LOL - but I have had deep discussions of all the various aspects of such with some very serious Christian types - some of whom have been preaching (most likely) since before you were born. I also have looked into a great many religious beliefs, Occult, Witchcraft and New Age practices. (All bunk basically...but each with some good I must admit - the best - to me - being Wiccan and Pagan beliefs - most natural and human friendly...) Yes, and the Dao - remember I have never claimed "to know" - it is you and those professing faith - they you know - even if proof or evidence says otherwise.... I understand you distinction of heart versus mind. I am much more a person of the heart then the mind regardless of what you may think. While much of the Biblical messages etc coincide with what I may feel to be "good" etc - equally - or greater - I feel the deception and I understand that this is all based on man - and man with very specific agenda - much of which goes against the greain of who I am and what I believe. And these mono-theistic religions are religions of exclusion not inclusion - regardless of what they claim to be. Overall there effect is a negative one. Look at that Jesus is Lord site (for Christsake!)... I mean just look at some of this stuff - http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/dayoflrd.htm and http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/bigtalk.htm This IS Christianity. I can't at all understand why one would place belief in something illogical or paradoxal as you say. I mean if you need it fine - but don't say that I am deficient If I say I do not...Its funny that you say - I used to think like you...etc...well - I imagine I'm a good deal older then you - and I have thought on these matters quite a bit. I have been involved in Christian organizations and teachings and discuss these issues all the time. And I don't need to create an anthropomorphic (or otherwise) deity for love, kindness and/or compassion thank you...

And how could i forget: http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/ Bt the way all of your new age "God" belief will help you for naught... Sample Quote: When new agers say, "The Christ" they are not talking about Jesus, they're talking about Lucifer aka Maitreya. Their Jesus was only a man who happened to discover "the Christ" within him. Blasphemy of the first order. [ January 24, 2003, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

True Christians? (warning extremely graphic imagry - not for the feaint hearted). Note also suport for the killers of Dr Sepian... http://www.christiangallery.com/ Sample quote: "I know this will come as an absolutely mind boggling idea to many citizens of the United States of America, but there are people here--lots of them--who are willing to live and die in defense of the Rights of the Creator. If you don't believe it now, unless the desecration of God's authority is arrested in the USA, you'll have the opportunity to see these people demonstrate their willingness to see God's authority restored or die trying. " [ January 24, 2003, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

Well i was wrong - Proof for "God" exsists after all - http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/ [ January 24, 2003, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

Heh - turns out jesus has another website (though I think it is just another Jesus)... what to believe in what to believe... http://wypleader.freeservers.com/

I'm in good company... If indeed the world in which we live has been produced in accordance with a Plan, we shall have to reckon Nero a saint in comparison with the Author of that Plan. Fortunately, however, the evidence of Divine Purpose is non-existent; so at least one must infer from the fact that no evidence is adduced by those who believe in it. We are, therefore, spared the necessity for that attitude of impotent hatred which every brave and humane man would otherwise be called upon to adopt toward the Almighty Tyrant. -- BERTRAND LORD RUSSELL [The Scientific Outlook, p. 130.] "...It would be more consistent that we call [the Bible] the work of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." -Thomas Paine [ January 24, 2003, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

quote:Originally posted by THOTH:http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/ra...ts/untouch.html http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/life.html http://www.infidels.org/library/historical..._astronomy.html And is Atheism a religion: (not) http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/at...smreligion.html

Heres a good one: (not mine) Is God an atheist? If not, which Higher Power does He believe in? How do you feel about bowing down to an atheist? Surely, to become nearer to God, shouldn't you become an atheist as well?

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/ra...ts/untouch.html http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/life.html And is Atheism a religion: (not) http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/at...smreligion.html [ January 24, 2003, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

quote:Originally posted by Sasun:Finally, about disbelief. Why I don't like, accept or respect Atheism? Well I am very sorry that you feel this way - but this is your problem/yor insuficiancy. Again - lack of tolerance/understanding. Sri Chimoy - yeah right - $$$$$ is all I can say - he is big business so of course he wants yours. All mumbo jumbo that says nothing to me but a sales pitch. And again you claim that I have no respect for the world or nature or such - how wrong you are. And how utterly presumptious. This is a common characteristic of "so-called" believers I think.

quote:Originally posted by hyebruin: ...but should there not be enough love and trust in a relationship for both partners to want to STAY and BE ONLY with each other??? doesn't love mean you want no other??? Well this is perhaps one ideal - but its just not reality for everyone. People change. And some people get married (too) young or otherwise make wrong choices. Also who is to say that we should only love one our whole life & such. I had several long term girlfriends in my life whom I cared for intensly and who perhaps I could have gone further with. Then again, maybe I would want a change by now as I have grown older and my interests maybe have changed... And no I don't think love means only one by definition. i have loved more then one many times in my life (even if it wasn't always consumated per se). And you also might want the relationship to continue - but not necessarily have it be exclusive. And - bottom line - sex is good. People have extermarital affairs & such - even when the consequences could be sever - because we (generally) like sex. maybe we are not happy withe the sex at home - or maybe we are but we want more. Its been going on since perhaps the beginning of time - and its understandable. Sometimes people do real stupid things because of sex. Human nature... quote:Originally posted by hyebruin: I mean life is not always exciting every second in everything you do! that does not mean people should go out and look for fun...they should make fun!!! (no pun intended~~~ it's like saying "oh, I don't like the way my boss looks today...I'll try to get another job for a while...then I'll come back!" uhuh! it doesn't work like that in the real world ! Understood - but it doesn't always work out this ideal way either. Even when one side tries - sometimes the other is just set in such a way and this leaves the one partner unsatisfied. Or another example. A friend of mine got married to thsi gal who while they were dating was amazing in how she kept up with him and did what he did - he was very athletic & on the go all the time. Once they were married she didn't want to do any of it anymnore (as it really wasn't her and she was doing it to nab him). Well asit turned out he found her at home in bed with another guy - but thats a different story - he was already pretty exasperated that she had "changed" so...etc. Also relationships can get stale. To try something different for a while can be refreshing even if you eventually come back to the first one. Its possible that this can even make the first relationship stronger. Particualrly if you (have the sense - if true) to realiase what a good thing you might have going... quote:Originally posted by hyebruin: so how come not as much dedication and commitment is placed in relationships?... Some still are. But we have so many choices now - and we can meld off into society - we are not stuck in a closed community where we are pressured into certain choices. Again - not all a bad thing. Some unions are best broken - really - why perpetuate a bad thing...you only live once...really... quote:Originally posted by hyebruin: I believe any relationship is like a flower or plant...you cannot just think about loving it...and leave it alone...you've got to water it, keep it in a good environment, maybe change the soil once in a while! relationships are all about compromise and work...the trick is making sure it's with the RIGHT person This is certainly true. (and we are all guilty to some degree of becoming lazy and such in this regard - it really does take effort - I fade in and out with it - but do try). But relationshps and even who you get into one with have an element of ramdomness to them - you just never know what your getting and often how the relationship will persevere through circumstances - some that you may go through only once - or for the first time etc. This is why it is often best to really (fully)get to know someone first - before commitment. Try living with them. And make sure that you are sexually compatable as well. Though I've been in relationships were this was true but the rest of the relationship didn't work. Very tough to get out of I will tell you (LOL - tough because it was very good in one very important aspect - mutually) - but not good at the same time...(but as we had an open relationship I was able to fix her up with someone else!...though she still did try to come back...)