THOTH

I've recently had this book recommended to me...by a non-Armenian. has anyone read it? Any comments/recommendations...

Hey Accel - Super help - really. I've actually never bought a car used before and really don't have much add-on experience - so your tips will really help me when looking the car over (maybe today....I hope...). Thanks again. (I so do want this car...and wifey has already given the OK! - but I have a great deal oftrepidation for the reasons you have specified...)

Accel - Still haven't gone. I've been busy and we have had some nasty weather (snow)...perhaps tommorow - but even then not so sure...Thanks for the (rollcage) tip BTW...Anything else I should look for? I don't know if I could tell if the ECU or turbos have been tampered with (they did say something about turbo air intake...)...

Varduhi - Of course one can never forget. But your position is one of no hope. If all thought as you the world would be in perpetual war & termoil. The Chinese would be attacking Korea, the native Americans would be terrorising LA, Isreal would be undermining Germany...etc etc etc on for ever (heck the US would be sore at great Britain and vice versa...the South still awaiting revenge on the North...Hatfileds against MaCoys...etc etc) - so at some point....of course Turkey has not yet acknowledged etc - so the ball is in their court...still - with attitudes such as yours...whats the incentive anyway...etc

Some just can't keep their mind out of the bedroom...

Speaking of Azeri propoganda (so poor I don't know whether to laugh or cry...) http://www.alexsrv7.com/~Artsax/wmview.php?ArtID=37 The site is quite a hoot....and goes on and on and on...I never knew that his true name was Osamma B Ladinian....

walkabout...

Accel - yes - (I'm actually now going to check out the car tommorow)...I'm nearly certain that it has been at the track. I'll need to get the turbos and the springs/suspension totally checked out. Also I will get an extended warrenty if possible (don't know...). Some Audi's hold up well - others have problems (varries car by car) - so I am told. Anyway - hope I can go out on the test drive alone - otherwise my passenger seat will be getting wet! LOL

MJ obviously there is much to this (and of course the Times will be ferreting it out - LOL!). But not so sure you/they really want to go there if one is to look at the road to/against the war/invasion (and after) in terms of economic interests. There is nothing wrong with this...but please let us be honest and sell it for what it is. No war is a trivial thing.

Accelerated - I will be test driving a used (2001) S4 Avant tommorow. It has a few mods - its been lowered a bit, exhauist and turbo intake mods and some big ole 19" Avus rims with Kumo 235/35/19 tires! I like the big rims/tires and the exhaust mods but I'll really have to check it out (8,500 miles on it). I'll also need to get some steel wheels or such for the winter and some big ole Blizzaks or the like! Can't wait to drive it! Yeah the S4 (my dream car...well the new M3 is just too $$$$) and the WRX STi!!!!! I suspect that despite their seeming similarity they will drive very different. the guy selling the S4 says its the best handling car he has ever driven. I don't fully believe him but I'm expecting to be a nice (high speed) ride. I suspec that the STi will be much more of a tosser (my kind of car that I have been missing the last 2 years since my MR2 has been off the road).... Oh & congrats again on the Mazda6. Of course it is no race car - but the handling is said to be superb. FYI - the day I picked up my Millenia I took it out on a newly opened (no traffic) highway. It was pouring down rain - absolute downpour....but I got out there and saw 120MPH on the speedo!! (kids were with me in the car BTW)...no problem - I had driven a Millenia before (in rain)...and I am much more used to high speed driving then the norm (I practically exeed 100 MPH every day! [ February 23, 2003, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

Azat - traveling in Turkey is certainly bittersweet. Still I have found it of great (historical/cultural) interest and highly rewarding (on a personal level). I can certainly understand your reservations - on a number of levels - but I would still encourage you to visit one day. I certainly hope to go back again.

Not good. (I am refering to the news in MJ's post)

Munzur - Such as refreshing post. I am very impressed. You are so right - what you are doing must be done - before it is too late. Already too many are gone and soon the oral history will fade. So get back there - but, of course, be careful - though it seems that you have worked out a very good approach. I find what you are doing to be very thrilling and worthwhile. Its funny - in 1992 - when I first visited Turkey (right after the 1st Gulf war) - I made a point to tell nearly everyone I met that I was Armenian. (We were in Istanbul and along the Aegean and Med coasts primarily...plus a bit inland - for nearly 3 weeks). Sometimes I would just come out and say it - but ussually I worked it inot conversation - easy since most Turks always at some point would ask - "why are you visirting Turkey?) etc. Even after my revelation I was nearly always treated very warmly. I never initiated any discussion of the Genocide - but a decent percentage of folks (maybe half or slightly more) expressed sympathy concerning the plight of the Armenians/what had been done to them, etc. Only a few folks became openly hostile (once I had to be pulled apart from a rather big, drunk Turk as we got into it a bit...). Quite a few others would look around nervously, size me up, and then whisper to me that they were Kurdish and begin telling of their (then) current woes... In contrast, on my most recent visit to Turkey (last year) I was more discrete (well somewhat...). But one evening I was at a bar and struck up a nice conversation with a very cute/young (blond!) Turkish bartendress. The place wasn't busy and we spoke together for quite some time - concerning her interest in visiting the States and some discussion of nice places to visit in Turkey - etc. I slowly worked into the conversation that my Grandparents were from Anatolia and we talked about where from etc. Then of course she asked me "Are you Turkish?" or something of the sort. "Well no - I am Armenian" I replied. She had me repeat it....I even said "Ermani" - she still had no idea what I was talking about (her blondness truly fit her well)...then she asked another (older) bartender. I could see him explaining and they both cast glances at me. Well - she never came back over and was suddenly busy cleaning glasswere at the back of the bar...needless to say her tip suffered greatly!

The first two albums are fantastic IMO. I listen to them all the time - will the volume about all the way up! I like the first the best - more varied and nore interesting then Toxicity in general IMO - though I like Toxicity very much indeed. Aside from a very few tunes I can barely listen to the STA CD though. I truly think most of the tunes were/are throwaways...I don't think it should have been released in the form it was. Only a few tunes are worthy at all IMO.

Yes certainly. There was also a nice British TV series a few years back that is out on video here. It used children and people in animal suits etc - not high tech but effective. It was fairly true to the story as I recall.

quote:Originally posted by axel:Stormy, the sentence "une œuvre dont il a défendu dans un premier temps la présentation en Turquie." implies he is no longer for Ararat being shown to turkish audiences (my translation may have been incorrect). What's the point of bringing to the masses "a point of view about the Armenian Genocide that is diametrically opposite to the truth"? THOTH, I wasn't speaking of immaturity but of ignorance. Your charge against Varduhi was a bit rude and your supporting a tete-de-turc.com article together with Stormy was quite displaced in my view. LOL - well I don't read French BTW (seems I was asking for a translator) - and I guess I thanks Stormy for bringing info to us regarding the issue of showing Ararat in Turkey. Did I do something wrong? LOL As for Varduhi - please - I really don't think she can be taken very seriously - at least she has not proven such to me. Was I rude to her? What do you call how she was responding previously?

Raffi-I / Boghos - I am in full agreement with your comments. Obviously Egoyan cannot give in to letting his work be censored. I fully understand why the Turks are concerned with such portrayals about themselves and are concerned with the type of counteractions that displaying such in Turkey will cause. I guess it is a problem that they must deal with. Until their society matures to the point and their people are honestly educated and exposed to their past their is only so much we (and they) can hope to achieve. They still have quite a ways to go IMO - and so much of their identity is based on the exaggerated nationalistic myth - the legacy of Ataturk (in part) and such - it is such a fragile thing... Axel - I apoligize for my spelling (and typing)deficiencies - never a high point for me....do you really equate perfect spelling with maturity? If so we have different definitions of such. Somehow I think nonsensical responses as "looooools" all over the place instead of serious discussion are more of an indication of a maturity problem - but I guess our definitions/expectations just differ... hyebruin - you are mistaken about me...but then again in different forums I have been called everything form an Armenian ultra-nationialist to a crypto Jew (and certainly much worse)...and I don't think that you are the first to accuse me of "having Turksih blood" or being a Turk or such (who knows really...but not to my knowledge...). I think these accusations more speak to the limitations of the accuser then to any accurate obsevations about me. How easy it must be to just claim that I must be a Turk or such then trying to address issues and think a bit. While I may not be so immersed into Diasporan Armenain culture as you or others on a daily basis I am certainly not ignorant of it or of how other Armenians think. Just because I might think differently then the norm does not at all make me wrong. The ability to step back and examine from a different perspective can be a useful one - do you not agree? Or is the "mainstream" always the correct and only perspective? And just because I may make some observations (to make a point) comparing what I may see as traits/characteristics of people etc does not mean that I prefer one group to another or that I love one and not the other. That I make some comments and not others - appearing to you I guess - to lean towards one camp (Turkish sympathys or whatever) is only to counterbalance what I see as some tremendous blind spots and biases on the part of many Armenians such as you. I am not any less Armenian nor any less sympathetic or appreciating of Armenian people, ways and causes etc as you or any other Armenian. Just the same we are not perfect and the Turks are not all demons or such. So yes - I have made an effort (to befriend and understand Turks) and I have been lucky enough to not be insulated and have had some exposure to Turks in my life - nearly all of my life. I see this as a good thing. How can ignorance and hatred be considered as better then openess and trying to understand? I feel that I am incredibly balanced - and I am certainly not hesitant to be critical of Turks, Turkish positions or whatever as the situation warrents and as I see it. You would be very surprised I think to see some of my posts in other forums where I encounter - lets call it - less friendly/open minded Turks...! And I certainly share the frustration/disgust at the official Turkish positions regarding the Genocide and towards Armenians in general and dispair at the attitudes held by most Turks. I just think that we need to be aware that Turks are not entirely monolithic in their views - there are progressive Turks who are fighting battles every day regarding human rights and other problems over there. We shouldn't just dismiss this out of hand and I don't think it reflects well on us to hold hateful and racist attitudes and beliefs in general.

Varduhi - you continue to demonstrate your juvenility/immaturity and ignorance. Its really not pretty.

Raffi - I don't mean to sound mean but that forum of yours has been way off track for a long time now. Unmoderated forums suck because of all the no-nothing extremists out there. I first came across your site early last year? (don't remember exactly) and considered participation, but after monitoring it a bit I could see that there was just too much mindless BS as compared to the more intellignet discussions. I was frustrated because with the billing as an official looking Armenian Genocide site I had expected much more and feel tat it is a very poor face we give the world. Unless it is moderated it is useless IMO. I sympathize with your plight - been there...but better shut down then up and unmoderated IMO.

Hey Raffi D. - I have read many of your posts on that Genocide forum and think you are a pretty smart guy with worthwhile ideas. So by all means welcome to Hye Forum - stick around a while and contribute....

Thanks for the link Stormy....now where is our French translator when we need him - eh? LOL

Thanks for the link Stormy....now where is our French translator when we need him - eh? LOL

Hyebruin - by "loose" I am not at all refering to morals - I'm refering to being not "uptight" or not self concious or whatever plagues many Armenians (from having heard their parents say no don't do that, don'rt be like that etc etc ad naseum for their entire lives..etc - the built in guilt complex manifests itself if if one is not concious of it... I understand the situation in Iran...but the public "death to America" sort of thing is only one aspect - and it is an aspect that is - for the most part fading - or at least it was until G. Jr fanned the flames again (axis of evil - etc). Sure there is still a bit of a gulf and a great deal of animosity - but it goes both ways. I think if one took a poll here in the States and in Iran - each asking the opinion of the other - that you would find a higher percentage of negative opinion form here about there then vice versa...(and thats under a government that is openly hostile to us and our way of life). Persians aren't dumb (except in the mob sense - but who is any different?) And I know that it is tough to be objective about Turks when one is Armenian - I understand that. But maybe I think that some Christian principles are in order here. Forgiveness as well as loving they enemy. etc. At some point it does no one good to have a blood enemy for life - it twists and corrupts. Soon (if we characterize the enmey as evil etc) - we become indestiguishable....this applies to current Iraq situation as well as with Turkey I think. Sure I think in many ways the Turks (as expressed by their polity) are pretty dastardly (etc)...however the Turkish people are not the same as their Government and elites. And when you ascribe all sorts of beastly characteristics to them do you not ever wonder if you are saying the same about yourself (considering their and your ethnic make up?). I know that your biases are a lot to overcome - but in fact a little love (vice hate) goes a long way toward healing. Obviously our tactics/approach to date has not been successful in achieving any kind of results - zip - concerning Genocide recognition - so I have to think that there is a better way...and in fact there are more Turks active in supporting Armenian sympathetic issues then you might imagine. And it is also likely difficult for you to understand/appreciate their courage. So don't just complain - don't just be selfish - gimmie gimmie gimmie - make a move yourself - do something positive if you sich a positive result back - don't just complain - be a part of the solution - if you care....

MJ - I hear you. And yes I understand OSCE and other orgs have been in Armenian for some time...so yes essentially the "big mouth" coment is what I was trying to say - something of the sort...(and the tendency to blame others for ones problems). I think Turkey will come around...eventually (though not so likely short term - then again revolution implys quick change - and these are always hard to predict - and as you allude - hard to predict which way it will go....) - certainly much oppurtunity for failure in the meantime and plenty of Turks who could (again) make it happen...they have already been "blessed" wityh their Ataturk - leaders such as he come around only so often...the rest must muddle through in the meanwhile...

Yes MJ - I understand this. Just the same Armenia should welcome organizations such as OSCE IMO - just as the EU is perhaps pushing Turkey towards cleaning up itself a bit...