THOTH

Stormy its not just that....sometimes you dont just get to play with all the toys you want...you need to sacrifice a little and think of something other then ones self. Its nice to say and think that technology will solve our problems...and I certainly hopr that it will, but in the meanwhile - with somthing as potentiall threatening to life on earth - and as we know it - wouldnt it be prudent to take some concrete steps top clean our act up? I certainlythink so - as the potential consequences - and we are seeing much in action already as a result of the impact of our industy etc on the world (deforestation, species dies off, ocean temps rising, ozone hole) etc etc...and ugly pollution just in general (and its much worse in the unregulated 2nd & 3rd world...as some of you may experience first hand)....I mean I care for my children and theirs - the kind of world they will be left with - shame on those who are too greedy or shortsighted to place them - and to work towards mitigating risk - first and foremost. How un christian I say - if we are the shepherds of this world - and all in it - then we must take this delegation seriously - otherwise outr quick demise will just be good ridance to all the rest and maybe the dolphins or the next bunch will learn form our mistakes and do better!

Thanks for the links Stormy...we can always count on you....

Isn't it ironic that David Kay - the head of the current onging effort to find WMD in Iraq - annonced today that he is giving up the hunt and stepping down. Funny in the face of such a potential breakthrough as the capture of Hussein. etc and don't you think we have captured enough Iraqis who would be in the know to have found at least something by now? And along the lines of some of the former posts - I think it wil be very interesting what comes out in any (eventual) trial of Saddam...and it may not be what we (the US) want to hear.

I was refering to her first list...and I don't think she was refering to yours or mine (read #2 again)...

A bunch of winners....5 story hotel wasn't a joke though was it?

Actually Sip - I totally agree with the gals - its kind of creepy....(very really...) ...on the other hand - yeah - they're upset for all the attention...yeah right...uh huh....

Sirrumekez & Skittles....are you two related? Or do you just frequent the same hairstylst and boutique on Melrose? And Maral...I think you have just got very unrealistic expectations! (for most guys that is...) ..and sorry to say..I'm already taken!

Sev marde - i highly recommend to you (and to anyone interested in comparative myth/religion) the books of Joseph Campbell. Specifically the "Hero with a thousand faces" and the "Masks of God" (the latter is dived into Primitive, Oriental, and Occidental mythologies/religions) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...ce&s=books&st=* http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books

Sev marde - (good for you BTW!)... It seems to me as there should exsit some happy middle ground. While I respect this Chinese gal/journalist for defying the norms and doing her thing byt her rules etc...I fel sad for her too...as I think she has much cheapend her experience...and misses the point of it somewhat/very much as well. In addition to it being risky behavior in this day and age - even in Chins\a - and pe\retty much everywhere now it seems. And its such a shame that now - when we have various birth control methods and such to allow folks (women in particualr) to be more sexually liberated and allow for more fun etc - that we have this terrible disease AIDs that has put such a damper on things (so lets hear it for safe sex eh? - virtual! LOL) ..in my time (1980s...) - when I was most active with different partners and "fun" stuff..well it was before Aids was really out there. Sure - it was just starting to be reported among gays and perhaps IV drug users...but for the rest of us...well...it was no worries (not that I didn't have a few "worries" in my time...but certainly nothing life threating..) oh well...certainly looking foreward to some more opinions etc ) (and yeah Domino...try to keep in on topic why don't you..I mean if this as all from your head why did you go and make everything so difficult huH? I mean shouldn't it be wild & free and just one big party all the time!?!?!?)....

OK - no hug for you then...and thats such a shame...seems to me you could use more hugs..

Hugs all around then...LOL Hey you guys devolved my thread....so you owe me now...at least a little slack eh?

Yes Sev-Marde...all this and more. The creation story - as well as the gods fashioning the first humans are really worth a look in the Sumer-babylonian version...pretty amazing... Also the flood. Evidence is suggesting that the flood "myth" may be from the actual flooding of the Black Sea approx 8,000 years ago (may be off on the dates)...caused by sea levels (MEd) rising and breaking through the Bosphorus. So yes - many of these stories do seem to have some origin in fact...and many are perhaps just allegorical.

I'm a High School drop out!!!!....(true) ...did complete bachelors in college (political Science and Anthropology) however...(at the age when many were just finishing High School...)

Armo - well this isn't the half of it really. Basically the entire book of Genesis was lifted from the Gilgamesh Epic. And its no surprise - remember the Babalonian Exile? Well where did you think the Jewish religion (and a good deal of their language/culture etc) came from anyway? Whats interesting though is how the paternalistic - monotheistic Jews reworked the stories to put their own distinct spin - making sex and knowledge between male and female evil, creating this idea of Satan and downplaying the concept of many Gods (though in fact there are still references to such in the book of Genesis - which is interesting) etc etc....

Vayri - thank you. I understand the issues you raise implicitly - they speak to me. I could never express them as eloquently (on a technical level) as you did however...(and reading you makes me feel so far removed from any academic roots it ain't funny)...but I am happy to lend my support where I can. You impress me greatly. (there does exsist however - room for improvemtn in your presentation -IMO - but only because your audience - on a forum such as this - will likely not understand many of your references nor be clear exactly who and what you address - consider the example of Dan - where he completley misinterpreted your intent and aim. I imaigine that he was not alone in his confusion...even if he might be an extreme case...LOL) And loved your thread title from the very start...it certainly spoke to me right away...you don't know how many times I've felt this...

Yes - Yalpa - I somewhat agree. Though I know you have a very sophisticated /more complete then most approach towards it - in the pst i had sensed greater reluctance (or now a greater ease) to accept that yes - these things did occur and can be coinsidered uncategorically - without need to examine all the various causative events to assign blame and waht have you...etc. Again just an intial ipression - along the lines I think to what Domino is sensing as well....of course I fully expect you to say - "no change" LOL BTW - I sent you a PM months? ago...did you get it. I owuld like to intorduce you to this ethnologist (for lack of a better name) that I mentioned to you before. Am also planning to see if he wishes to get involved in some of our recent er debates here on racial origins...though I think he is really interested in more serious discussions.

please do continue MJ...a fascinating perspective...wish i knew more of the details (never read Hovasinian's treatise...but i imagine it would explain much)...still I cannot believe that the falure was all internal - obvioulsy the Turks of 1922-24 etc were much different then those who recognized Armenia in 1918 (in the brief and only period of Turkish repentanance)...and Russia too - could one ever believe that they truly thought of anything other then their Imperial ambition (in regards to the Cacuses - or anything)?

hey - I'm going to second the finsih your PHD first...babies can wait till after...because if you don't then you will never finsih it up (for a time to come at least). As for boyfriend belief & baptisim. Well sometimes you do things to please your other..and sometimes you do things to please your family - within reason of course. But being slefich isn't always a virtue...but neither is always giving in and subverting oneself to the family. But doing what you can (again within reason) to me is a sign od\f some maturity - some consideration for others. So yeah - I would suggest that he could go through the motions - without overly comprimising himself (I mean if he doesn't believe then no harm eh?)...and marraige in a church - your call of course 9but again - whats the big deal...its traditional - families like it etc etc)...of course I should talk - we got married in a lodge up in the mountains....but it helps when the both of us were/are non-believers and were her folks and my dad were as well...and my mom - was juts please as all that i was settling down (and not with one of the wilder crowd I used to hang with! LOL)

Yeah - I supose that one can make up any scenario eh? (using Elbe logic...) And in fact wouldn't it be the Western Armenians - who lived for 500 years under Turkish/Ottoman rule - who have been the most Turkified of all? Am i missing something here?

Yes an unfounded generalization...I mean what if i claimed that (I thought) all believers were just stupid fools? By what i believe (or don't) - I would have reason to reach this conclusion...but I dont' generalise....

No not at all - why would you think such....

Good questions Stormy (your first post here I am refering to) I agree the concept of Satan is seriously flawed. But then again the Christian God concept is as well...so certainly this aspect - of the fallen angel - and all that it entails...but yeah - with God as all knowing/powerful and so and and so forth what is really the point...Perhaps the concept of Zorasteranism - with good battleing against evil on a more or less equal basis might have more apeal. Of course - in the end - IMO - its the allegory that makes these tales useful...not any actual belief that any of these stories is real... h and i think many that call themselves Satanists are more just hedonsits - that rebal against the 10 commandments - sins in general - prohibitions against sex, drinking and partying specifically...so Satan becomes a hero...and in fact the story that the old testemant garden of Eden story is culled from - the Sumerian/Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh...in this story the snake (Satan?) is Enki (in my mind a THOTH equiivilant...as well as the same basic diety as the greekPrometheus!) - who is in fact a champion of humanity - human wisdom, freedom [from unfair restrictions imposed by the gods] etc etc And I don't think that most religions view sex as a sin or as evil....its just these silly paternalistic mother-earth rejecting puritanical monotheistic religions that decree such....and in the end its just another way to marginalize females.... I'm not sure that "evil" can be easily defined...but certainly to me - the concept of causing needless harm to another is fundemental....(be it by unecessary restictions or actual malicious action etc) ramble ramble...

I second all of this of course! heartily! And no - show us no mercy gals! ...I'm more then ready for some strict discipline!

So what?

what proof do you have that you are any better then anyone else? You diss Armenains from everywhere - yet aren't these the very Armenians that have produced our great musicians, wrters, scientists, chess players and so forth - I mean what are you saying - you dissasciate with all Armenains in history - that you are part of some lost white tribe of Armenians or such...perhaps you were Cleopatra in a past life...I really don't know what it is your trying to claim...only that it is nonsense. Lets see if I understand now...Your claiming that there is some Armenian(?) white (?) subgroup that is somehow pure and/or the only one deserving to be called Armenian - and you associate it with with some Nordic (?) white race/group etc - well this claim is both spurious/without any merit and shows your total ignorance of history and of anthropolgy (how people and cultures mix and such...)...and it seems to me that it fails to pass any test of relevancy. It is a non-issue - and you are nothing but a sick joke. Edited by Sasun