THOTH

I saw this the other day and they were awesome. I couldn't believe it when the driver asked 'who are you guys" and they said "we are Armenians"..as if it said it all...they were hillarious fer sure

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: Phah... And nobody has thanked me for taking the time to translate that stuff... No??? http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?for...geid=1007063592 Thak you and your very welcome may dear....LOL

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: I didn't like this photo - didn't fit in among the others: Bleah... Looks like she is labouring off constipation or something. LOL - (I disagree) & I'd comment (but this is a "G" rated forum...)

Yes of course! (LOL)...BTW I just booked my flight! (not really [i don't imagine] but I am in agreement with you - she is very nice!)

quote:Originally posted by Harut: Thoth, i have no problem with good and sexy looking women and girls. i love them. i just see that there are some misunderstandings about this issue between men and wamen. i just want to see what is that bothers women about this issue. OK - understood. I think I could answer this for you (at least to a degree)...but I will defer to the ladies. BTW - thanks for (somehow) retrieving my post & reposting...)

Nellie - Great posts (you go girl!) And Harut - everyone - to at least some degree - is judged by their looks - women much more so then men. Don't we all at least want to look good/decent? I mean why do you comb our hair & such in the morning (If you have any)...perhaps a smidge is for vanity - but most is to basically fit in - to present oneself as expected by society...etc - well for women this often means dressing somewhat sexy - its expected. And it can make you feel good to dress nice and be appreciated (by the opposite sex). Sure it only is (or should be) part of the equation - but it is at that...and would you rather have women not look good? (or have everyone look the same like THX 1168 or such?) Could this really be the ideal? Hey - everyone should relize - sex & sexiness is (fun and) good - and not be so puritanical etc - you only live once (really)....enjoy!

Yea - I understand how even beautiful women have had perhaps narrowed choices and such...and again the tilting of things into the mans favor...etc For all of that - and for even some of the current inequities in expectations/accepted behaviors/career possibilities/equal pay etc etc etc - don't you think that now is about the best time to be a women ever in history? I would certainly think so (as compared to past environment...and that existing in Talibanistan and the like....) All that being said I must say a here here for short skirts (or at least the ones with the nice long slit up the side...show it baby!) LOL, tight tops, high heels and all that other good stuff that men (moi included) like so much and a "heres to ya" to all the gals who work so hard (to keep us hard)...and the like....what can I say....? (red faced perhaps - but honest....

yes Thorny - somethings up - pages are missing - I posted just prior and it never showed up (and these problems began) - ?

quote:Originally posted by Kazza: Well this is it. I think women, although their ****wittage is less often, (men tend to do it in a hormone, driven way) women can be bitchy and do with via emotional manipulation. But less of the generaliasation on my part. Men can be SO manipulative, often to get thir way bedroom wise, money, kids, and often phisical abuse that's the really sad part. But What I was saying is haveing the confidence to realise, that if it does happpen t you, not to think it's your fault as you often do. It's to do with the cheating partner and whatever's going on in their head . Many think, is it me? Was I alsways startng the fight? Am I ugly? Was I crap in bad? But there is nothing wrong in admitting that it DOES hurt, although by showing it in an undignified way, bawling in front of him, slashing his tyres, will just show a lack of confidence. But we are human beings with feelings. Yea - very well said. I think your right - the degree that men manipulate women to get their way (and the manner - often physical/threatening, sometimes more inocuous - just by being the blubbering dumb lard...etc...honey - fetch me a beer etc) is I think often more ignored by society - which tends to concentrate on the manipulative behaviors of women more so (and their behaviors are perhaps more evident - as they have had to act in certain ways - traditionally - to get their way or what they want - since they were reletively powerless....). Somehow I don't think beautiful women were ever totally powerless in societies... quote:Originally posted by Kazza: So It's good you are lucky, but it did take some work, and trying in past relationships to realise that. I look back on my past experiences, and at the time I was thinking, "why do i have to be going through this. I didn't do anything to deserve this" But i realsie now it's not a case of that. These exeriences are sent to test us. I look back now and think, I am glad this happenned to me, otherwise I would have never learnt from it and I wouldnt have come out a better and stronger , and more substantial person. Yea (again well said) - though sometimes ignorance is just best - is it not?...LOL.

quote:Originally posted by Kazza: Perhaps your'e not missing too much weather wise (Especially now it's november, and it get's dark at 4.00pm!) The worst part of winter don't you think - get up - its dark - come home - its dark...(and of course - for some of us - work most of the day inside...without a window...even worse...) quote:Originally posted by Kazza: but there are some very good museums in the centre of London, that might be of some interest one day If you ever decide to come to England. i think I have some relatives Oooop Noorth to (In Manchester, quite near to Leicester) They talk funny Instead of saying f.uck like us posho southerners they say fooock. And we say barrth and they say bAth. I think I get the barrth & bAth pronunciation differences...but just how is it you say f.uck? LOL

OK Kaz - I think we are on the same page (I just originally took it as a blanket statement regarding men) - and as I have never ever been dishonest (not at all in may nature)....well, you can understand my not wishing to be branded as such.... I also agree most?/many? - ? men are creeps (or are at least inconsiderate [of any but themselves]...based on my observations (including of myself at times unfortunatly...though I do at least try...) - though, of course I've never dated one (a guy) to really know how bad it is...LOL (and yeah, gals can be (selfish/inconsiderate/ruled by hormones/unthinking etc) too...though I've had pretty good fortune I guess...though not batting 100% [is this a cricket term as well as with baseball?])....

quote:Originally posted by Kazza: [QB] Join the club darling, join the club. Theyr'e all the same and nothing can change that. [QB] Kazza - While this may be your experience (perhaps its the "crowd" - though I know its more then just that...these types are everywhere) - but I object to this as a universal statement (that all men are the same)- not everyone is dishonest and not every guy is just ruled by his dick without considertion (or love/integrity) for his partner. Another perspective though is that (at least until married) there is no actual ownership - the strength of the exclusivisity "contract" is perhaps open to debate - but should certainly be made clear/resolved up front (and lived up to) - everthing is better that way (I've been in quite enjoyable/advantageous open relationships before - its all a matter of personal taste and situation and expectations/type of relationship) - IMO And dear Luzo (did I get the name right?) - my advice to you - don't cheapen yourself (by being hurt by some *******) - have some dignity. If this guy thinks he is better then you (and/or you don't want to put up with his crap) - dump him - right away - or if for whatever reason you wish not to - certainly make sure that his stanfdard(s) apply to you as well (if this is what you might want) - one sided though - no good. Don't worry about all this other (revenge/get even stuff) - its a waste of time (IMO). Find a guy who meets/exeeds your expectations - and define the relatinship in a manner that you are happy with. The world is full of good people (as well as the other admittedly) - set your standards high (as you deserve) - and whatever you do - don't grovel...please.

quote:Originally posted by MJ: I would propose to move the materials not related to the Kurds in Turkey to another thread. What do you say? Fine by me. BTW - I have been away for a bit - and likely will for a while longer - so sorry no responses. Please cary on without me (though try to be nice)...

MJ - well well - while I agree with the jist of your last few posts (concerning USA, Russia, Taliban, etc) and nearly all you say (to a degree) - I also must say that you seem to me just as the left wing conspiracy theorists that you deride - but just in the opposite camp. Your discussion of and concept of left and right (in the media and academia) while certainly with much truth - still strike me as oan overly simplistic (and somewhat paranoid) assessment. Also - shouldn't we consider that most all media enterprises are owned by some very big media conglomerats - all with buko corporate ties. Thes companies (and their related advertisers) seem to me to be very conservative - and in fact arguments can be very successfully made of a bias in media to the right (and of stories not told or told with a slant that is not in any way leftward) - sure what you say concerning journalists might very well be true - but also consider that the Dan Rathers of the world - etc - are very rich men (not poor starving lefty reporters) - and they often have a great deal of editorial control as well (and similar situation exists in Academia - as well as corporate sponsership and many factors that influence a very conservative approach) - I'm not denying the factors/forces that you allude to - but there is the other side as well - you diatribe on this subjuct seems, well, a bit Rushed to me - if you get my drift (as in Limbagh)....(otherwise good posts - BTW...LOL)

quote:Originally posted by Azat: Thoth, I personally am against "cruel and unusual punishment". I am against the death penalty because I really feel that it does not accomplish much. There are statistics on both sited of the issue that show that it works/it fails, but I just think that it is inhumane. For instance, I feel the death of Timothy McVeigh is not going to stop the fundamentalists in US from committing crimes. US is not any safer not that McVeigh was killed. Plus it costs SO much more to kill someone than to incarcerate them for life. And when a "McVeigh" is put to death he becomes a hero for others, but behind the bars over time he is just another criminal. This is also why I hope they catch Bin Laden alive. Just my opinion... I do not disagree. I am generally opposed to the death penalty because of the complcating factors that draw out the process when it comes to putting someone to death. I am also aware of the racial biases and errors. I agree that the death penalty has little deterrent effect - no one believes it as a real threat. My idea is for more severe punishments for (certain violent and major impact) crimes - rather then just locking people up - with TV/VCR/library/gym & (near) comforts of home etc. I think that if offenders who use pre-meditatedx violence against other humans would be (essentially) tortured as part of their sentence - or would be made to suffer equivelent to the suffering inflicted on others - and this was publisized - I think this could have a deterrrent effect. (as well as satisfy demands for victim retribution). I also think that the corporate criminals and other big wig white collar criminals should be made to suffer such when they defraud and affect other folks with their greedy actions. Again - I think that if (severe and repeated) physical punishment were a potential sentence - this would act as a deterrent - and be well deserved - IMO.

quote:Originally posted by MJ: Thorny, There is no shred of doubt that Bin Laden was behind the actions (not the first one, by the way). (I know it for sure. It is proven. There is a Ceritficate of Proof signed by Yassir Arafat. ) About 85% of the American population (according to the polls), including my whole family, supports the operation. If I was conscripted to the American Army, I would've not hesitated for a moment to come at Al-Qaida and Taliban with all the power available - the sole purpose being total eradication. Please tell me what do you see stupid in our retaliation, and wohat would you consider proof. Thorny - basically I have to agree with MJ and Azat on this one. there can be no doubt concerning the guilt of Bin Laden/Al Queda. Equally so there is no doubt concerning the relationship between Bin Laden and Taliban. It is certainly within our rights to strike back. Additionally, Taliban is an entity that has been commiting grave abuses in Afghanistan and any decent, intelligent person should be all in favor of their removal. This of course does not mean that the US should necessarily be the judge/jury and executioner - but if so and if supported/allied with/by indigenous and neighboring elements - so much the better. Of course we should be concerned regarding the doability and pitfalls of such an operation - and personanally I would suspend it for a bit at this time. (for a variety of reasons). I'm sorry if you (and much of the world) resents the US power position in the world today and sees us as some kind of unknowing giant buffoons stomping about around the world. Obviously our leaders often lead to these perceptions in the manner they come accross - etc - but let me assure you - there are many very smart and informed folks here - making decisions based on thourghough analysis and good intentions - are they perfect - or all informed - etc - no - but this is an impossibility. Are they sensitive to the (very many) issues surounding a campaign of this sort and of our relations with other nations and among nations in the region and the world - I think so - for the most part. Is what the US is doing in Afghanistan still foolhardy and doomed to fail - perhaps it is. We shall see I guess. Amnd its certainly OK to be a critic - and I undeerstand (and smpathize with) many of objections to the US (and allied) action occuring today (and have been hoping really hard since it was first contemplated that they can avoid obvious and not so pitfalls and errors - reral/PR and otherwise...) - just the same - don't think that the US is pursuing this campaign in a totally naive fashion - it is not. [ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: THOTH ]

quote:Originally posted by Kazza: And BTW, dont we ALL "urgently NEED to contact system of a down"? What is your special reason then? LOL - very good! I've thought the same recently (regarding myself). I'm not too enamoured with their recent CD (its [just] OK) - and I have so many ideas for what they could do and for their sound (their frist CD is totally phenom IMO - and my interest in them is a testement to what I think their potential could be...). Anyway I would love to produce/manage (or at the very least) advise them...

MJ, BTC - Its great to see you agreeing on things! Perhaps we can establish a trend of sorts...

Ali, Again I commend you for your rational, informed, and courageous stand regarding the Armenian Genocide. We can only hope that there are (or at least in time will be) many more such as yourself in Turkey. Winston

Ali, You are incorect concerning Armenian carpets. I not only own a few, I have several books on them and their history (perhaps I can post some facts/history) - and I have been to an exposition that focused on them (along with other carpets from the Caucuses) - several years ago at the National Textile museum in Washington DC. I don't claim to be an expert (Its not really my thing and my wife actually know more then I - having bought carpets in Turkey, Cyprus and elsewhere) - but I know that Armenian carpets have a very long history - are a major art form among (traditional village) Armenians and they have unique patterns/designs that differ from most Turkish (and Turkick) carpets. Otherwise, I do understand the points you are trying to make regarding the naysaying of Turkish cultural/artistic acheivements... Winston

MJ - I understand your point regarding restoration versus preservation - and in fact have taken the side corresponding to your view with some local (US) Civil War structures that the park service wants to actually use for commercial purposes (te building in question is already restored - and is used as a meeting facility - they want to put in a working kitchen so that they can make food and charge for it - I have fought this vigourously - in fact I have fought against the genereral commercial use of the facility)> I think that there is a balance however - and that restoration serves a purpose. First - only archeology/history buffs such as myself will ever venture out to visit ruins (for the most part) - but restored buildings (etc) are another matter - giving a much wider exposre to these structures - and thus to history in general (and I know that there are two sides to this). I think that this is important - because it gets people to care about preservation. And also - without restoration I think sometimes we lose the perspective on what the thing was - how it was used etc etc. So I think restoration (done properly) can be a good thing. It should be evaluated on a case by case basis (IMO) - but certainly not left to hacks to carry out...

Ali, et al - (excellent post BTW) But on the lighter side of Turkish police corruption (LOL) - my own experience with "Turkeys finest" (and luckily I can laugh about it) - I was driving (I think) somewhere between Fetiye and Antalya - on a major (but 2 lane) road - following a line of traffic. We crest the hill and a Turkish police car is on the side of the road where there is a big broad turn out area. A policeman is standing by the road and motioning every vehical off the road. They then come by and look in the car and based on this either wave you on or wave you over to the "line" - of course I was waived to the line. I noticed that the proceedure was to get our of your car and line up at the squad car (where an officer sat accepting "payment" for the "infraction". While in line another officer steps up to you and indicated your infraction/fine that is scrawled on a rather worn and faded notebook (even the ink is worn and faded - not a new violation that has just been written down). In my case the officer pointed to a fine that was the equivelent of about $200US. Well I protested vigorously (though no one understood English). I got into a very heated argument with the officers (regardless that we each did not speak each others language - lots of gesturing and yelling - etc - on both sides...). (I mean every vehicle was going the same speed - why was my violation so much higher - not sure I was even in violation at all...). So the line started to back up (slowing down the "take") - my wife was indicating that I should just pay (telling me "midnight express"...LOL) - but I persisted anyway - ademently refusing to pay anything close to what they were demanding. They eventually pointed to another much lower figure - about the equivilant of $10US - I happily paid it (no receipt or such was given) and went on my way...LOL I know that many stories concerning the Turkish police end much more tragically - and there is a real problem (that you articualted very well). I am glad to not have had that sort of encounter... [ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: THOTH ]

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: Winston, I agree more with MJ than I do with you. A racist is fundamentally nasty - however, neither a/b nor Steve are like that. And I agree with the observations bit... And neither get all prejudiced about anything. I disagree that racsists have to be fundementally nasty. I have always considered my parents to be good people - but fundementally they possess what i consider to be very racist attitudes about people and groups of people. (My motrher is very typically Armenian in this regard - IMO - just like those who have commented how Armenians consider themselves so aryan and look down on all the "darkies" - additionally she is very judgemental concerning "other" Armenians (those not from Istanbul - or at least those not as well off financially or as "cultured" as she [and, of course - "us"...LOL]...etc)In the same manner (or perhaps in a differnt manner - but still fitting the description - IMO) I see Ara as certainlat racist - almost with every post he makes (its not always an incorrect [or "bad"] view - IMO - just it is his perspective (as I see it) - almost by definition. Steve, on the other hand, has - IMO - expressed similarly racist based views and generalizations (with decidedly negative connotations). I have accused him of racism in the past - but I cannot say for sure he is racist - because perhaps we all hoild some views such as this - some may be less inhibited in expressing them then others however. Generally I do't like it when someone (ussually its a Turk) attacks Armenians from a racist perspective (I also dislike the same regarding the Turks from misinformed Armenians..regardless of the historical record...). While Ara does such - I think his intentions are (for the most part) good...as for Steve - I think he was just letting off steam. (still some of the comments did quite upset me at the time).

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: I've heard on news on TV here that they are going to torture mere suspects they think are responsible for or somehow involved in the Sept. 11 attacks. I've also read about it on other forums. And everybody and their cats and dogs were talking about it here the day it was made public. I think that this "report" is mistaken. In the US there does not exist the presence of torture of the sort that is commonplace in Turkish prisons (and by Turkish police) on a regular basis - except in the most abberent cases. Certainly there is no policy for torture. What might be done by special forces etc outside US territory is certainy another matter - again this is not routine policy - but an extra-ordianry measure. In the US the populace does not react favorably in any way to this sort of behavior by public officials - even by soldiers. This is one aspect where I think US society has matured - where other nations (such as Turkey [and perhaps Armenia as well]) lag behind. Turkey happens to be the poster child (from the more or less "developed" world) for this kind of abberent behavior against its own citizens. I can't think of any good excuse for it. All that being said - I am actually an advocate of "cruel and unusual punishment" (for violent [or major] criminals who cause great public or personal harm. Your concept of proven guilty is of course important to me - not some suspect - but someone who has been clearly (fairly) convicted. I think that punishments need to be more stringent in some cases and need to fit the crime. I am also for eye for an eye type of punishments in some cases. Of course these attitudes on my part betray my Ottoman/Middle Eastern roots a bit - don't you think? No matter - it is how I feel. [ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: THOTH ]

OK then - I was mistaken. Its probably as Steve says - a difference in the lighting or in the image on the film. See ya all later - gotta go now.