THOTH

quote:Originally posted by Boghos:Hello Winston, Lebanon has also the Ksara wines. But in my view Musar is without match.... I will look for it. Is it a wine to be drunk young or cellared. Are there variations in vintage? quote:Originally posted by Boghos: For France I am essentially a Bordeaux drinker, but that doesn´t prevent me from trying all the different regions. It also very much depends on my mood and the food. Bandol, for example is quite interesting. I am a bih drinker of champagne.... I agree - Bordeaux is where it is at. (Have you ordered your 2000 futures yet? I am debating ordering more - still great ones to be had...just the prices are steep...but imagine upon release?) I particualrly enjoy Pomerols & St Emillions (Merlot based) - though the more powerful/tanic Puilacs & St Juliens are often excellent...and of course all the rest... (I am building a bit of a vertical on Moutouns...as much as I can afford...not much yet really...I do have a nice range of Troplong's - are you familiar? nearly always scrumptious IMO). I still find that Southern Rhone is excellent for great value & highly drinkable (& powerful) red wines. - My type. Northern Rhone great as well - though generally pricier...I enjoy the "budget" Crozes & St Josephs too though - for "everyday" drinking. And I just had a nice - very well aged Bandol the other day - very exceptionally smooth...it is Nebbilio - the grape - is it not (I don't recall for sure)? quote:Originally posted by Boghos:I can have a Sauternes once in a while, but I prefer Port as dessert wine (and that´s where the strength in my cellar is, but one should really focus on Vintage Ports, in my opionion, 45´ and 55´ are a bit ridiculously priced, but you still can get a nice Quinta do Noval 1963 for a "reasonable" amount or the better aged Tawnies.... I love both/all. Sauternes do have a special place in my heart though...for some reason I seem to have vivid memories of some very nce times while drinking them...(and to me they are so rich & lovely...never had Yquem though..Ruiessac & others...As for Vintage Ports - yes - But I can hardly see spending even what it takes for a "63 (though I have been [recently] tempted. I have several '77s that are about ready (I think) and quite a few more recent vintages (lots of '97s...including a Noval, Grahmes, Nieport & others). I am partial to Taylor (& to a lesser extent Grahmes) in general (witrh vintage as well as tawneys). Have you every had any Greek desert wines that you think are special? quote:Originally posted by Boghos:Austria and Switzerland are two interesting countries. Very sweet Austrians (trockenbeerenauslese) wines are good, but a German Eiswein is prefered in my opinion. Switzerland has some good wines, but they tend to be more expensive than a similar quality wine from anywhere else (no surprise, is it ?).... Gotcha - not surprised (concerning the swiss). Have never had a trock or even an Eiswein yet...I must! quote:Originally posted by Boghos:I am a big fan of South Africa, especially the wines from Thelema and Kanonkop. Simply excellent.... Really? Never heard of these - what grapes (red I assume)? Again any vintage advice and are these imidiate drinkers or better off cellared? quote:Originally posted by Boghos:A nice and affordable Chardonnay from New Zealand comes from Brajkovic. Of course Australia has several good wines and a few outstanding ones. ... I keep hearing of the outstanding NZ Chardonnays...but since its not my fave (nor my wifes) we don't drink much anyway..and I tend to go for price...(though always with quality in mind...just not not paying the big bucks for what I belieive is ussually an overated and only moderatly interseting wine...I ussually enjoy my Rieslings more...) quote:Originally posted by Boghos:Argentina has seen great improvement in the last few years. I would recommend Catena Malbec, or if you prefer Cabernet Sauvignon, they also have a good one. The malbec is more interesting in my view, though. Chile also has good wine, but I prefer Argentina, but I am in the minority camp on this one. The rest of S. America has no noteworthy wines.... I understand that Argentina is on the rise. I purchased a Catena Malbec but have yet to try it. I like Malbecs - but can certainly imagine them to be better then the ones I have had - the concept is good - IMO - my kind of wine. I enjoy Chilean wines...though the prices are rising so they become less of a bargain...good easy drinking cabs & merlots though... quote:Originally posted by Boghos:All the Armenian wines I tasted were horrendous ( I prefer Kotayk, as in the beer ) ) Same applies to Georgia. Turkey is horrible. Morocco and Algeria have drinkable but mediocre wines.... I keep hearing of these fine Georgian wines and some noise about one or two good Armenian wines (I'll have to check my Oz Clark atlas again or wherever it is I saw such...) quote:Originally posted by Boghos:Portugal has some decent red ones such as Barca Velha, Pera Manca, Tapada dos Coelheiros and the different Vinho Verde literally green wine, meaning not yet mature. But I prefer Spain with its more robust reds.... Some of the dry Portugese are nice that I have had..my experience is more with Spain however. I quite enjoy Spanish reds...though I have yet to have a super super "fine" one...I just find it hard to pay the $ for Pesqurra (sp) when I can drink an Alta Riojo 904 or such that is very enjoyable...and much cheaper...(and save the "real" $ for Bordeaux or Italian (see below) quote:Originally posted by Boghos:Italy has several good wines but one has to be very careful. Lots of funny things still happening...... Funny? Such as? I don't understand - as Italy makes among my favorite wines. I go ape over Barolos & Brunnellos as well as some of the Super Tuscan wines out there (except for price of course...but some affordable very very nice ones can be found)...but these are among my all time favorite wines...I just can't wait until all my "97 vintage of all of the above is ready to drink (the Brunellos that I have pre-ordered are due to arrive soon.....I keep hoping...). And did I mention Amarone? (I am a big Allegrini fan in general - have you had any of their single vinyard [very affordable] reds or their Amarone?) Even Britain has some good reds......[/QB] OK - you have lost all credibility.....LOL. No really - didn't know they grew any wine in Britain...really.. quote:Originally posted by Boghos:Sorry for the hastily written response, but I am quite busy. Haven´t even been able to phone Martin )... Look foreward to hearing more... quote:Originally posted by Boghos:PS: I remember in Budapest in the 80s one could buy a bottle of the very rare Tokaji Eszencia fromthe 40s for something like US$ 50... Surely a destination once commercial time travel becomes available...LOL. I've never had it (of course)...but even the very rich 6+? Putunyos can often be quite heady...(still I prefer my Sauternes...LOL)...though Tokajis are very very nice I agree (and unique in their way). Now take the bullet out of the chamber - its alright that you missed your oppurtunity for fortune and very fine drink...there are other reasons to live of course...and other great quaffs to be had...(still...) [ March 19, 2002, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

I understand hasmeik's point completley. Though i am in no way a vegan - many of my close friends are and so are some of my Armenians reletives - so I always have to be sensative when preparing meals for guests etc. And I have seen the pressure put upon vegans by "normal" meat eating Armenians...LOL (It is just the Armenian way - as long as it doessn't go to far I say have a laugh about it and perhaps take an oppurtunity to educate if possible) I think you all have misunderstood Bellthecats initial commet in this thread - I don't think it was advocating - just observing. (regarding the possible Armenain perspective). There can be arguments for or against vegatarianism versus meat eating as well as the impact of each on the environment. Somehow I think that there is a balance somewhere - but there are certainly pollution (and perhaps health) issues common to both that could be better done. (always more of a problem when conglomerates get involved...efficiency is often at the expense of the future or some other enterprise next door...and why should they care if it is ugly - etc - they live in another town anyway...) And sure - it may be (somewhat) rude to turn down food preparred for as a guest - but really now - what if you were allergic. And heh - there are certain things that I just don't eat (I do try new things though) - we all have preferrence/idisychrancies etc and certainly the decision to be vegan should be respected - and in many cases this alters the digestive process where it is basically not possible to ewat meat without getting sick - even if one whished to just to make Auntee happy etc...

Boghos, thanks for the tip. I have heard good things about Lebanese wine in particular and know a source but did not know what to buy - I'll try to look this one up. I think there are great (& affordable very good) wines being made all over the world. Still, to me France & Italy are special for the sheer volume (& variety) of great wine. The US (primarily California) produces some super wine as well. Other regions such as Spain & Australia have a few great producers/wines and much very drinkable (affordable &) good (but not outstanding) wine. South America is still comming inot its own IMO...with some nice wines that I know of (though I have yet to come accross anything truly exceptional IMO...same for South Africa - though my tastes of these have been very limited. Well thats my take on wines of the world (in brief)...(oops forgot Germany - certain Reislings are very fine & Austria - so I hear - though no experience).....Look foreword to your (Boghos et al) take on this subject....and who can recommens any good Armenian wine? Is anyavailable at all in the US. PS - Forgot Portugul & Hungary for their more specialized sweet wines - (Vintage & ageed Tawney) Port & Tokaji !!!!!!!!!!!!! yum yum yum...and of course I am a great Sauterene fan!

No doubt (good to see you by the way...and concerning a subject near & dear to me). Did you know that Turkey is currently the 4th largest producer of wine in the world! (really) (Behind Italy, France, Spain [not sure], and either the US or Germany [again not sure} - I'll have to look it up again)...anyway, unfortunatly - none are really worth much (in terms of fine drinking & such...though I seem to remember the wine there as drinkable, though not particularly memorable...)

quote:Originally posted by aurguplu:thoth, turkey has really become a large-volume wine producer of the world, and you might be surprised to learn that a substantial part of french bordeaux (of cabernet sauvignon variety) actually is obtained from turkey (no-name of course). the french use it to augment their volumes. i understand most of it goes to the vin de table, vin de pays and vin délimité de qualité superieure classes, but some of it indeed finds its way to appellation bordeaux controlée class as well. so some french bordeaux that you enjoy about 10-30 USD/bottle may indeed contain something from your "old country", so to speak! I understand/am aware of this (in general/not specifically that the French are being so supplied...though I do not doubt it one bit...most California wine - so prized in the US is not grown in the name valleys/regions but out in the - way too hot - Central Valley - and the quality is poor - IMO) As for those French wines substitited with Turkish grape -I likely have not tried any - not likely in the wine I drink...LOL - not that I am a snob about my wine or only drink very high priced bottles - but if I buy French I ussually buy Chateau produced/AOC+ or that from reputable negotiants that obtain wine from known vinyards...(and where I assume the lables are accurate...) though again I am familiar with the scandal in Burgundy last year and immediatly had to check all of my stock as I thought I had some of the intentionally mislabled stuff...luckily I didn't...though I am not a big Burgundy drinker as I find [parts of] California and Oregon to supply quite a drinkable & more affordable product)...I am a big Bordeaux drinker however as well as Rhone (mostly Southern [CNdP!!! - just has a nice Guigal this weekend...]...though the occasional Hermitage/Cote Rotie/Crozes or even St Joseph).... quote:Originally posted by aurguplu: turkish wine was simply undrinkable up until the 1980s, then things improved a bit, and a lot in the last few years, to the point that turkey now has wines good enough to challenge the coopération (not chateau) AOC wines of bordeaux in quality, if not always in price/quality (we have a something like 400% excise tax on imported alcohol in this country). next time you come around, drop in, and i can offer you some really memorable turkish wine! cheers, I will certainly do that. You have my permission to lay a few down for my eventual visit (LOL)...if there are any yet being produced that are fit to age. By any chance do they grow any Nebbilio in Turkey? Its one of my favorite grapes...and it seems that there might be the climate for it...in fact I would think that nearly any grape variety could be grown somewhere in Turkey - from the hot types to those requirring cooler temps...good to hear that qualityy is improving - always good to hear...I mean who likes bad wine anyway?

Goodbye and good riddance you most hypocritical and know nothing one. You are correct - why should I waste my time arguing with you - you will never change 9and why should you - you do what you wish and advocate that others somehow must beahave to a morality that you do not even follow) Glad to see you go! quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:I am oficially quiting this forum. There are no people left in this forum for me to argue with. Hate towards me, bad words etc. are just the sign of envy and impossibility of arguing!!! Everyone dislikes me here, so I decide to quit once for all. Thoth, if you douts you can mail me, and we can continue our discussion of the subject, and I will prove you my point. At this time i am sitting with a british newspaper. Reading the news from your country: Woman, killed her 4 under 5 year old kids in the bathroom by drouning them, got a life imprisonment. That's how sick your society is. And you know that, but you enviness and the sorrow of living there with makes YOU at the age of 40 something to come to this forum and spend hours defending it. Enough of this! I am outta here once for all. I will concentrate with my dissertation and upcoming exams. Here is my e-mail: artur_arm@hotmail.com . For all other members, wish you all the happiness and peace to all your houses. No matter if you agreed with me or disagreed i wish you all the best. Artur

quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Guys, you having such a nice dialog between each other about me, so i will probably get on with my dissertation and leave you alone. :: )) Yes - it is clear that you are a hypocrite when it comes to these matters. So typical. You will condemn others and make all kinds of claims - but when you are presented with your own BS you slink away...I, on the other hand, have no problem answering for my beliefs. And I don't claim that "my way" is the only way or that others must do as I do or even think as I do per se...and I don't claim that all is perfect (here in the West) either...Yet you do these things - until pressed to defend & answer to your silly proclamations.

quote:Originally posted by Sip:Actually, now that I think about it, I do that sometimes too. My cat wanted to go out and play the other day. I had seen this big dog in the neighborhood running around. So I didn't let her go out. I can really see parallels between the way I feel and care about that cat and the way you talk about your wife. No disrespect intended. You have the right to do and feel as you please but I don't really respect my cat. I own it and play with it when I feel like it. If you want to call that respect and care, that's fine. But I think we are using 2 different dictionaries. Yes! Very good... Does a Master respect and love his slave(s)? I'm sure some may have/or do....others certainly claim(ed) too - and may have been somewhat more lenient or understanding...but the gist of the relationship is boss and servant. Artur presupposes that one adult has the right to determine what another adult can and cannot do. H interprets the contract of marraige as one where the husband has the final say in all things. Well i guess that is OK for him and any who might agree with him and submit to such. But to expect that those of us in the rest of the world should abide by such...well then he is advocating slavery for at least 1/2 the population of the world (IMO). Artur - if women of the world chose not to follow your rules, well then...go ahead & cry & whine all you want - but it will not change anything. And to put those of us down - because we respect the rights and self-determination of people - and you obviously do not - well - shame on you - thats what i have to say...

quote:Originally posted by Sip:... and ... some more for you dear Arhtur: Try to answer the same questions that Thoth asked about the education level of your wife about your sister. Would you want your sister to be able to pursue a high-level college degree? What if she really wants to and her husband says no. Should she give up her dreams and ambitions and listen to "the man"? Or (Artur's hypothetical/future/eventual?) daughter(s) of course. But I think he will answer "no" it is not their place or some such...

quote:Originally posted by Boghos:Dear Vinston, Far from me defending crime and criminals anywhere in the world. But my sense is that what Artur might be referring to is the inevitability of the existence of crime, and his preference for some sort of game where the rules are explicit and obeyed. Whoever had the chance to visit the USSR was impressed by the low level of crime. Yes, I think I understood that this is at some level the gist of his position. I also think I understand the role these type of organized "gangs" pre & post...but with the general breakdown of things where tremendous oppurtunies present themselves for enrichment (& power) they have had the influx of far more violent thugs of various stripes. Sure - most of the violence might be confined (though it seems that a few journalists & others have fallen victim) - but these are still leeches on society and they prevent "normal" business practices (they will not allow independent) ventures to exist etc. I understand the low level of crime in general in Russia (& whole former East block I surmise). There are likely many reasons for this I think. Obviously we are not crime free in any sense...I don't mean to just be condemming the "problems" of others quote:Originally posted by Boghos:Of course the meaningful crime in the USSR was not this petty crime Vori v Zakone type, but the behaviour of the state itself. But that´s another issue altogether. Yes, Beresovsky (sp?) and the various oligarchs (& Yelstin & his family as well)- all in on the action (& the Armenian versions of these folks...) - makes Enron scandal look quite tame. The wealth that they squandered & the savings of the people...and the manipulation of control of industry & resources - - - they all should be shot IMO. (I imagine a very many Russians & such would agree with me) quote:Originally posted by Boghos:As to the rule of law and its importance for business development and so on, I couldn´t agree more. Just do not forget which law you are referring to and also the simple fact that many legitimate and important businesses, even household names in the US, started in a very different form and in a very different legal environment. Sure & political dynasties (Kennedy's for instance) as well. A great many legit businesses sprung out of organized crime in this country (prohibition era of 1920's in particualr)...and perhaps there is hope for the same in Russia/FSU. We acccept the inequities of the distribution of wealth - hope they go legit and take some pride in their nation(s) and try to do good etc...yea, perhaps...what choice is there now to some degree? Does anyone rally wish it to go back the way it was (besides maybe Artur of course) - even if it could? Fundementally though - cooruption sucks big time. It does not lead to moral society or to enlightened one - IMO. I can never condone those who prey upon the weak and take advantage of others - legit or not, governments or otherwise...we should be able to do better - IMO...

"What do Thieves do? I regard them being good for society in general. Without them there would be a lot of uncontrolable criminals in the former USSR. " Really, Artur - you don't say...is that your final answer? I think I understand the point you are trying to make - and I still disagree with it. I mean look - even if this little arrangement that you seem to thins is such a paradise works in a way - just look - here come the Chechens & there is gang war & such out of control. And you ignore the fact that all of these types are basically just leeches with no accountability - that prey on the legitimate people - the regular folks - who must live in fear of all these (normally uneducated & brutal & armed) thugs in their midsts. But I should not be surprised that you accept and defend this - you aree so very steeped in the corrupt - muight makes right - paradigm of the fall of the Soviet Union. You fail to appreciate what rule of law is and that legal tradition ensures that markets are stable and (business deals etc are) protected and that society can perhaps rise up out of the muck such as that which exists back in the former SU (incl Armenia). Let me guess - you defend this way of life because it is your family business & is putting you through school, allowing you to own - what was it - 4 cars (as a student no less) etc etc - is this it? I think it might be so...

Artur - well at least you pass a most basic test concerning violence against women and their options. Not all of your "traditional" bretheren seem to see it this way (according to the articals). So perhaps you are assinmilating Western values just a little - eh? LOL I find your continued presentation of your views concerning women driving to be somewhat antiquated (and again very "old world" male centric...certainly not in line with realities in the industrialized world. Your continued position causes me to wonder some things concerning your choice of a wife (and again your fundemental beliefs). General questions concerning women/work & education etc: Do you believe that women/young girls should be educated? Do you believe in upper limits on education for women? Does the idea of a women doctor or PHD frighten you in any way? Should women be encoraged or discouraged from pursueing such higher education and subsequat careers? Specific questions regarding your "ideal" (or acceptable) wife: Do you (or will you) seek strictly a wife who is uneducated (or non-college level educated)? If your wife is degreed (or otherwise) and expresses a desire to work what will be your response? What if your wife disagrees with your decision for her not to drive? (will you make her sign a paper or such indicating that she will never attempt to drive after marrying you?). To what degree will you accept your wife as a partner in the making of family decisions? If you somehow become disabled or otherwise unable to care for your family - then what? Can your wife work/drive? What if your wife determined that she was not happy with your arrangement of her not driving or being allowed to work and decided that if you did not allow her to do either that she was leaving you - what would be your response? Artur - in general I find your concepts of respect/disrespect between man & women to be less then ideal. Your positions bring to mind what I would expect from a slave master concerning his slaves. And I find it curious that you view marriage/family as a business - versus as a loving/caring relationship...and you charge me with only "using" my wife sexually...so your position is its OK to "use" a woman as an heir producer and to do the household chores and tend to your and your childrens needs...and by golly she better not expect to actually enjoy sex...it is just another service (show of respect etc) to you...it seems you are the one advocating the "use" standard of marraige all around. And while I understand that in all families thereis a certain division of labor - and that traditionally husbands were by and large "breadwinners" and women the mastewr of the houshold - can you not understand that this represents more of an agrarian model that may not be appropriate in many (most) cases in an industrialized society. If women are becoming educated and skilled - and if alternative (daytime etc) child care arrangements are available (and this can include relatives or husband & wife shifting off the duties as some of my neighbors do) then why shouldn't a woman work? And, in any event if women desire to work/have careers etc (and possible even not become wives/mothers at all), or to do al of the above - how can this be wrong? And who are you to say it is wrong for others?

Fresno State's Tarkanian Expected to Retire From News Services Friday, March 15, 2002; Page D02 Jerry Tarkanian is expected to retire from coaching, with Fresno State set to announce his decision during a news conference today. The 71-year-old basketball coach, who would not reveal his plans yesterday, is expected to remain at his alma mater as a consultant, ESPN.com reported. Fresno State ended its season Wednesday night with an 81-75 loss to Temple in the NIT. The Bulldogs finished 19-15, only the second time in Tarkanian's 31 years in Division I that his team failed to win 20 games. After the game, Temple Coach John Chaney grabbed a microphone and praised Tarkanian. "I'm saddened to see him leave," Chaney said. "Tark, I love you!" Tarkanian, whose career has been marred by long battles with the NCAA, refused to discuss his plans yesterday, saying, "I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet." Tarkanian is fourth in major college victories with a 778-202 record. Before coming to Fresno State in 1995, he coached at UNLV, where he led the Rebels to the 1990 national championship. He has led programs at Fresno State, Long Beach State and UNLV to the NCAA tournament 17 times.

Vahan - I too had long been a sceptic of the Patriarchs figures - that is until I read McCarthy - now I beleive that they are accurate (really) and McCarthy proves this for me. In McCarthy's book "Muslims and Minorities" he reports the great discrepencies in thew figures concerning the number of Armenians in the East. He then details instances of great undercounts (primarily of Armenians) by the Ottomans (even though he attempts to "correct" these in his figures - he does not - and ends up making excuses contrary to his observations of (known) undercounts. Then he discusses the Ottoman census figures in Western Anatolia - lol and behold - they line up nearly perfectly with the Armenian Patriarch figures (well, well). So it is clear to me that in fact the patriarchs figures are (at least grossly) accurate. I conclude this because in areas where nobody had any particualr incentive to lie - they were the same. But in areas where the Ottomans had a great incentive to portray the Armenians as less - they did so. And McCarthy also points out clear discrepencies (underscounts) in the Ottoman figures over and over again. And the various European intelligence services used the Armenian figures in all instances I gather...

OK Artur - you can fill in the scenario background...let us all agree that she is being beaten by her husband regularly and in front of the children....please now answer questions 1 - 6 from my previous post.

Ali - you are truly an enlightened individual. (And I can agree with everything you have said in your post). It is so very refreshing for me to meet persons of your disposition and attitude - truly a sign of some hope.... Whenever I am in Turkey again I must look you up. We could enjoy a nice bottle of Raki together and see who drink the most of it...

Artur - the quotes are from an editorial in Armenian International magazine. They are followed by a number of accounts and reports concerning how police and the society handle these cases of violence against women. You like most in Armenia (according to these reports) want to basically ignore the problem - but it is just your type of attitudes that perpetuate the problem. So here is a test for you: A women is repeatadly beaten by her husband in front of their children (etc) (BTW - he beats her because she is an educated physicist and has been offered a prestigeous and high paying job - locally - as opposed to his meager, low paying job that barely feeds the family? He is afraid that she will have an affair if she leaves the house without him and doesn't thinkl women should work anyway - just on priciple...and certainly not drive. 1)She should seek outside help? Yes/no 2)She should report the beatings to the police? Yes/no 3)She should leave/divorce him if these beatings do not stop? Yes/no 4)The husband should be prosecuted and perhaps jailed? Yes/no 5) She should never mention a thing to anyone and should just accept that she is her husbands property and this is just the way it is? yes/no 6) She should accept the position and move out taking the kids with her (her mother has agreed to watch the children during the day)? Yes/no etc

FYI - I suggest that folks check the March 2002 issue of AIM magazine. Its theme "Violence in the home" - concerning the issue of domestiv violence in Armenia. In my view it is understandable that a nation where the economy is struggling and there are other stresses and that live in the traditional way (ie men as undisputed head of family, women have little recourse, etc) that you will see this problem - and of course we do. I am glad for Artur that his family is properous enough where the women do not need to work (and if they do not choose to that is OK as well). I am rather dubious that there is no argueing (yeah right) anyway - i do not think that this (perhaps to some) ideal that Artur portrays is in fact the norm (sure if you are [comparatively] rich perhaps...Anyway some interesting quotes: In the AIM view section entitled "Beating Your Wife": "Domestic violence in the Armenian context is complicated by the sense of shame felt by the woman at the idea of breakling up the family to save herself. That the victim should feel guilt in seeking to escape persecution is bad enough. That she should be made to feel shame as a result of family pressure not to bring embarrassment upon their home suggests a very warped sense of priorities" and: "...there is indifference to the whole issue of domestiv violence in Armenia....In such a macho culture, the man is king in his own home and his wife merely one of his possessions, like the furnature." There are then two articles in the magazine that detail the experiences of several women...including some very sad and ridiculous behavior/attitudes on the part of the men - IMO.

Nellie, Kazza, et al - thanks for your support - but it is OK, really...I think I can live with one warning (though, to some degree I am at a loss...no matter...). But in Kazza's sake i think she should get 2 good points (anti-warnings or what not) since she altered her sig voluntarily...even though the vote clearly was in favor of it remianing as it was. This shows a great deal of concillitory attitude and behavior on her part and it shluld be rewarded (at the very least by recinding her warning)

Azat - we prounounce it "chud-egg" thlugh I have seen it written "choreg" - similar to the Jewish Challah bread (but better, a bit denser and richer)...know it now?

Azat - we prounounce it "chud-egg" though I have seen it written "choreg" - similar to the Jewish Challah bread (but better, a bit denser and richer)...know it now? [ March 10, 2002, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

quote:Originally posted by Garo: quote:Originally posted by THOTH: quote:Originally posted by Garo:Artur, Kazza and THOTH you are getting warnings. Artur and Kazza you have 2 warnings in total. What for specifically? Kazza in particular... So you are saying that if one is called nasty names etc that one cannot defend themselves and that others are not allowed to point out what a nasty person the name caller is...I fail to see, in Kazza's case especially, why either Kazza or myself got a warning of any kind...THOTH just read the Code of Conduct again, reread the posts and if you will still have the question why did you or Kazza or the other get warnings then you have a problem.yea, funny how it comes the second Kazza or I might type a 4 letter word (if that) - yet you let these neandertals call (our) women whores & sluts & such and in general be derrogatory, very negative, attacking with nasty unfounded accusations etc ...with apparent little concern. OK - I'll accept a warning - fine. But after what was directed at Kazza and that you would still give her a warning tells me that you (& the other moderators) are certainly not Armenian men in the traditional/Artuinan sense)...that you seemingly support. I understand that my views are hard for traditional minded people (incl most Armenians) to acccept (but in a sense thats your problem) - if you knew me you would not think I was so wild etc - but the principals that defend are so very important to us all - and are ideals to which I think most Armenias should be sympathetic (if they could understand their history/situation properly - IMO). Anyway, live by the code, die by the code... [ March 09, 2002, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

Seaphan - well I have been bawling my eyes out since I wrote that bit. Literaly everyone who was there besides myself is dead now...and for some reason your initial post and this thread has caused me to think about all of them quite a bit...

I also have had similar experience. Growing up I was very interesting in learning to cook Armenian. My mother (a great great Armenian cook...for certain/many things...would imediatly boot me out of the kitchen - always....I had to learn on my own, through cookbooks & expirementation & exposure (I must say though - even she is impressed...)..still my repritoire is much more limited then I'd like...though my shish kebab & pilaf are practically unmatched...(not just IMO...) I don't know if the following belongs here...but it is perhaps distantly related...so you will indulge me I guess...several years ago - before a certain Aunt of mine died - she had been suffering from Altheizmers disease and her comprehension of who she was around went in and out (and of course rapidly deteriorated). It happened that I was visiting some other reletives at the same time that she was...and somehow it was made known to her that I was coming...she didn't even conciously know me/who I was/my name etc...but she knew my love of (her) choreg from when I was a child - only her and my Grandmother could truly make it (in a way superior to any that I have ever had elsewhere...so rich, just the right densitiy [not too light or too heavy] and seemingly so buttery)...well she had insisted that she make it (and she did, for me - and beemed so by what she had done for me)...knowing that I was coming...and it was wonderful...yet she couldn't even remember my name (and never after was I able to communicate with her in any way)...anyway...I just thought of it now, and it still tears me up to this day - and at this moment. One of my (most vivid) memories of youth - that I will never forget - is awaking to the smell of the choreg baking in the morning ...knowing my grandmother, aunts and such were making it especially for me... I Don't know the answer to your "why do the Armenian women clean up so quickly after the meals" etc dilema...I just know that they possess an unsual energy (hyperness- IMO)level in general (from my experience)...and that they continually strive for perfection...I think that more often then not (more often then others) they achieve it.... [ March 09, 2002, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

G - I certainly will..