Dan

Hey Hasmiek, Well, I thought I'd reply to this, even though I might not be adding anything new to what the others said... but still.. so... yeah, I may not be old enough to be experienced in things like that, but I DO know one thing (and that IS from experience), that one should govern one's own life, make the choices one wants.. well, there's a difference between not doing what your parents want and disrespecting them - it is by no means a bad thing to do your own thing.. You're an adult, and I believe that parents should have no say in their children's lives once they are old enough to decide for themselves... yeah, you can ask for advice, etc., but you have no obligation whatsoever to marry in church or to marry now or whenever THEY want you to... especially that you are financially independent (if you were financially dependent, that would be another thing).. But I say go for whatever you feel is right - if you feel that you need more time, then do that.. And have you talked with your b/f about this? (I'm sure you've discussed it), but it also helps to tell him what you just said to us (if you haven't done so already)... hmm.. I don't know if that makes any sense.. but the bottom line is: don't let your parents make you feel guilty (not saying that they are or aren't, but I know how many Armenian parents do that, mine included), and cause you to do (or not do) things you might regret later on in your life. That's all I can say.... And good luck..

What is PC, if I may ask? Progressive Conservative (talk about oxymorons, eh...)? or? what? And Vayri, here's the definition of bigot (ATTN: not for educational purposes, check a dictionary for that ): BIGOT, n. One who is obstinately and zealously attached to an opinion that you do not entertain.

Vayri, not to sound that I'm talking against you (I think you make some valid points, actually - well said), I've encountered more racist dark Armenians who REALLY HATE lighter-skinned, blonde-haired, blue/green-eyed Armenians and think they are traitors to our national "image" of the sevachya aghchig/degha.... Really.... I don't really care about looks or eye colour or skin colour, but that's something I've come across on many many occasions. Yeah, there are stupid materialistic people out there who are odaramol, etc. etc., but the majority of cases I've encountered, it was the other way around. this board is far from being fascist... ok? really... try talking against Jews and you will see what I mean.... or try saying something fascist and see where that will get you... I don't get it - who is trying to steal your history and how? I admit I don't actually read the history forum, as my interests and knowledge are not in that area... but I don't think anyone is actually trying to steal anyone else's history - we are all Armenians and we have, more or less, the same or similar histories... skin/hair/eye colour do not change history... so no need to get so personal about it, unless someone really offended you directly, I suppose.. Actually - no, no, and no. Armenians who don't have Middle-Eastern passports or birth certificates have not been profiled or targeted. As much as I hate the U.$ policies... - those guys are defending their own country and people (including many Armenians like yourself) from terrorist attacks (and I understand why they would make sure every person from those places is profiled in detail)... Hey, I am as white as anyone could be, and green-eyed too (the qualities you obviously hate so much, because apparently you think they are the marks of racism, fascism, neo-Nazism, and the so-called white nationalism), and I was interviewed for hours and hours, done a background check on, etc. just to get a tourist visa to the States to go and see my grandparents........ so please, do try to see the matter from both sides, not just from YOUR side.. cos believe me, I can bring you tons of examples of black hatred of whites, even MORE than white hatred of blacks.. it's about time that you stop yelling foul play and racism every time someone says something you disagree with, and then say the same racist things yourself (reverse racism).. you know, as much as I am for equal rights and all that, affirmative action in racism doesn't work.. OK? So don't justify your racism by saying "it is only to offset the white nationalists' racism", cos believe me, I've seen thousands of people with that mentality, and believe me, if everyone did that, we would be in the 3rd world war, or maybe by now the 4th world war.. Yes, there are racist Armenians, yes, there are racist Jews, yes there are racist blacks, yes there are racist Americans, and that's no news. ... I am as pro-Jewish, pro-Armenian, pro-equal-rights as can be, but what is fallacious is fallacious, there's no denying that. I don't claim to know who you're referring to in your post about the white nationalists on this board, but believe me, you have NOT YET seen REAL white nationalists.. Moreover, to say that this board is FULL OF fascists is a bit of a stretch (one or two people do not make up this board and don't speak on behalf of everyone) - so next time, before you raise hell for "those damn bastard white nationalists who are taking over this board", do take a look at previous arguments and who's who and what's what - because I can tell you that there are more pro-Jewish, anti-racist people on here than there are fascist or white nationalists. This is not meant to be an attack on you, simply on some of your arguments. I respect you ..., not only as a fellow Armenian, but as a fellow human being. I might not approve of all your actions and all your words (there's something called opinions, you know), but I respect them. And let's not step on each other's feet. Just my 2 white nationalist cents, Dan, the white nationalist (also known as the green-eyed, light-skinned neo-Nazi fascist) Edited by Sasun

http://www.student.yorku.ca/~shoghig/dan/rofl.gif yes yes, that's even better.. http://www.student.yorku.ca/~shoghig/dan/roflmao.gif

Armat, have you heard of/about something called humour/satire?

Armo77, yes, yes, we know that you're thankful, but this is a thread for discussion about Saddam's arrest/Iraq war, not about thanking U.S. troops. Moreover, that picture belongs to the Humour thread.

that highly televised war did not show any pics of mass graves of Iraqis... so why should i believe that it showed ANYTHING correct at all? Viewer discretion advised: http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/pt_index.html

.... But anyhow, for those who are interested in reading, here's something important: The Riegle Report U.S. Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual Use Exports to Iraq and their Possible Impact on the Health Consequences of the Gulf War http://www.gulfweb.org/bigdoc/report/riegle1.html Edited by Sasun

MJ, for your entertainment: and and so, is THAT trash as well?

Anileve, are we talking about the government refusing to provide more housing for the needy/homeless people, and instead spending the money on private jet flights (scandals scandals, oh, how i love them)... are we also talking about the various protests we have here in Toronto against poverty, in which all homeless people actively participate in demanding better conditions from the government? i don't care about charities. charities are not part of the government. charities are societal organizations, installed by working people, not by the government. we are talking purely about capitalist vs. communist societies and comparing poverty in both. therefore, i feel that the argument of charities or organizations that help poor people is irrelevant. what does the government do? what has Bush done? what will the Canadian government do? put money in the CEO's pockets, or provide the working people with enough bread to live on and go on producing the means and methods of production? and about china and the chinese immigrants - they are nothing but means of production and reporoduction to the U.S.A. if you think they are brought by the thousands from china for any other reason, then you need to get a short tour of the history of slavery. yeah, it's not in ships they're bringing them, and it's not forced slavery, but it's the modern form of it, blinding people by the perfect image of so-called capitalism in U.S.A, and luring them into the country. that is one of the biggest fallacies ever. people ask me how i criticise jews sometimes when queer people were massacred just like jews were, etc. same type of argument. i usually don't answer to that, because it's really irrelevant. we are talking about a form of government for the entire population, not self-interest. it's about values really.. i choose to sacrifice my own values and preferences for the sake of basic equality. my life does not revolve around my sexual orientation. it's only a secondary part of me. i have a higher conscience than the one simply based on equality between heteros and homos. moreover, i do not advocate any past methods of applying communism. i admit those were not the right ways to apply them - stalinism, etc. that was basically capitalistic communism.. communism as it was is not necessarily equal to communism in theory or communism in good practice. communism has not and does not advocate tyranny or dictatorship or sexual oppression. and yes, i've been involved with a lot of poverty groups, etc. - one of them is OCAP (Ontario Coalition Against Poverty), and we successfully forced the government to convert abandoned buildings into social housing for the poor. in a perfect or ideal society, people should not have to do squats in order to force the government to give them shelter from the cold.. in a successful system, there would be no need for that. communism might have been unsuccessful, but so is capitalism.

lol Stormy, yes, that's exactly what i had in mind when i said that.. http://www.student.yorku.ca/~shoghig/dan/rofl.gif oh yes, anyone who thought it was Saddam's loyals who were killing U.S. troops must've been very delusional OR blinded by the U.S media... it's about national pride (i.e. coming into one's country and stealing one's oil, colonising one's land, and playing with one's dignity)

Sip, i can't see any "poor innocent Saddam" lines here... so what are you talking about? attacking U.S policy is not the equivalent of arguing that Saddam is innocent...

yes, and are we also assuming that all human breeding has stopped in China?

wow... hey, i may join ranks with my pro-poverty brothers then... hey Shahumyan, how 'bout we both join, eh? i love freezing my *** and sleeping on the sidewalk when the weather is -15 Celsius, and then getting pneumonia.. what do you think? a good suggestion, no? because they are bloody fools blinded by the U.$ propaganda and media lies about how great economy/society is in the States.. most chinese immigrants who come here collapse on the government (lazy bums, yada yada yada) or end up homeless. the rest work like hell, maybe even more than they used to in their own country, and only a very small small (i.e. 0.5%) number actually better their conditions (credit may go to accident or luck). Edit note: same goes for Cubans who flee their country and run to Florida.

A-H, ... yes yes, you are right about the oil interests... and what's this whole thing about 9/11 and saddam? we might have a revolution in our justice system.. how innovative can the U.$ government get! my my... you're guilty until proven innocent. would save a lot of time and money, and it's actually very simple to understand for the majority of the world that is stupid enough to buy into the U.$ propaganda.

Anileve, are you taking into account the oppression and constant attacks those countries have been subjected to by the king of capitalism, namely U.$.A? (e.g. Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Nicaragua, El Salvador, etc.)? Moreover, how can one explain the difference between this: and this: ? Are we to conclude, then, that capitalism has enlarged the gap between classes and led many people to their deaths? furthermore, which do you prefer: living in a country that has that kind of distribution (let's say considering that you're not poor), or a country that is more or less evenly distributed even if on the whole poor? Moreover, which would you prefer if you were poor: living in a country where you were homeless while an upper-class minority had 1 car for each member of the family (nothing less than a Rolls Royce), or a country where you might have suffered and worked hard and came home exhausted, or maybe went to bed hungry, but knew that there was some kind of equality, and that the system was open to change through revolution, unlike the cemented capitalist society of oppression and repression? which, then, do you choose?

good sentences. even though i disagree with the chinese food part. http://www.armenians.com/forum/style_images/1/icon8.gif heh, i don't know much about Russian women, but i sure like vodka.. as for Russian women, yes, i admit a lot of them are very attractive - i simply dislike the way some/most of them dress. some of them just overdo it (yeah, it does make you turn your head, but not in a good way anyway)...

by the outcome you mean the installation of the same stereotypes? i doubt it.. i doubt that it's in human nature to want to see women in tight clothing.. women's clothing has changed over time, i don't think it was and always has been as it is today (tightism? )

i don't think he's an idiot at all. if he's gonna be tried, he's gonna drag all those who took part in it (including many Americans and Brits) with him.. other than that, i hope he rots in prison, along with his buddies bush, blair, milosevic, and many many others.

yes, so do a lot of armenians. and those who do piss me off. my mom is one of them. other than that, i don't hate them.. i have no problem with national pride, as long as it doens't extend to "in your face" "we're the best nation in the world". oh oh.. of course not.. hehe..

i disagree... Russian women are arrogant to the extent that they really annoy me. Moreover, the majority of them (the ones I've met & talked with here in Toronto anyway) are rude and disrespectful of other cultures and nations, and consider themselves the best nation in the world. moreover, the world is changing. it's about time that female stereotypes (for the satisfaction of male fantasies) are shattered. there's nothing more annoying than hearing people talk about THE typical woman who wears make-up, plucks her eyebrows, wears high-heels, tight pants and top, for the viewing pleasure of males..

indeed, for the fundamentalist christians, of course... but wait, isn't iraq a muslim country? INDEED.... a christmas present for muslims.. maybe they will soon be recommanded (sic) to convert to christianity...

http://www.student.yorku.ca/~shoghig/dan/rofl.gif Armo, if you truly think that the Iraqi people couldn't sleep cos Saddam was hiding, or that the American troops will now leave cos they finished what they "really" came for, then you are delusional... bush saying that saddam is gonna be tried is like the criminal saying that the other criminal will now be sent to jail for his wrongdoings (and saying that it's great news), whereas he's free... hypocrisy at its best... the writer is making fun of the fact that USA attacked iraq on the premises of iraq CURRENTLY (not in the past) having WMD.... the controversy or irony he is trying to point out is that USA (that considers iraq a huge threat and was afraid of iraq being an irresponsible country and therefore the argument that it should not have any WMD) gave the same leader of the same exact country WMD similar to those it is claiming that iraq has now.... he's talking about political fallacies and propaganda... and the usual argument you just mentioned (anti-US rhetoric) is just so insignificant simply because so many people like you have yelled "foul play" when you didn't like the anti-war arguments, that it lost its real meaning (i.e. calling real anti-Americans anti-American)... oh you mean USA has the same credibility it had under Clinton? and that this war didn't cost the American people anything (lives & money)? first you spend millions of your people's money to arm a maniac up to the nose, and then you spend a coupla million to disarm them...... and for what, if i may ask? not for the weapons industry by any chance? and not at the expense of the taxpayers either..? i'd say syria (Assad) is next on USA's list of countries to colonise.. saudi arabia is definitely not on the list for the time being (even though al-qaeda is most probably linked to that country - talk about the ironies of the bush administration) - the U.S economy and need for oil currently exceeds any other need (land, etc.), especially that there are other countries to be dealt with in the meantime... but who knows, after the iraqi oil is taken over, maybe there might be a change of plans... U.$ politics becomes unpredictable only when it's about oil and money.. but wait, wouldn't that mean that U.$ politics is ALWAYS unpredictable? hmmm.. i don't know...

MID-EAST REALITIES - MER - www.MiddleEast.Org - Washington - 14 December 2003: No pictures of now U.S. Vice-President, then U.S. Pentagon Secretary, Dick Cheney officially meeting with him in years past...years and meetings they now wish forgotten. No interview on any TV channels here or anywhere with American Ambassador April Glaspie, instructed by the former Bush President to pay a special visit to Saddam in one of his largest Baghdad palaces of yesteryear to inform him how important an Arab leader the Americans considered him to be. No reminders from the American media that when in fact he did use chemical weapons of mass destruction in 1988 he was one of the top U.S. allies with his weapons supplied and paid for by the U.S. and Britain. Saddam the tyrant, Saddam the meglamaniac, Saddam the President, Saddam the dictator, Saddam the wanabe Saladin....now captured disheveled hiding in a hole lacking even the courage of his own long-professed and repeatedly-expressed convictions. This said, Saddam Hussein, dethroned Arab leader of yesterday, was captured by the imperial occupying military forces of the Pengaton and CIA. He was hunted down by an Anglo-American Judeo-Christian alliance that is primarily between the U.S., Great Britain, and Israel. He was captured after a terribly expensive multi-month crusade, a hunt that itself was proceeded by a terribly expensive multi-year miserably-failed CIA covert campaign to bring him down. And it all was announced by the current victors, how historically ironic, from the nearly Saladin Palace. So far, as this modern-day crusading undertaking continues to escalate, millions of Muslims and Arabs, and thousands of Americans and Israelis are already dead. The end however is not really in sight; no matter how 'triumphant' the Americans are boasting today. Meanwhile, the 'Clash of Civilizations' is now well underway and Osama bin-Laden remains out of control. Meanwhile, the neo-apartheid occupation of the Palestinians has escalated to a point of probably no return. Meanwhile, the occupations of both Afghanistan and Iraq are actually going quite badly, costing the Empire a tremendous amount in blood, treasure, and credibility. ------- that sums it up, I hope...

omg... that's the best one... hahahah.... :lol2: http://www.student.yorku.ca/~shoghig/dan/rofl.gif http://www.student.yorku.ca/~shoghig/dan/roflmao.gif