nellie Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 quote:Originally posted by hasmiek:he met this Moroccan chick, got her pregnant and lives with her now (nope not married)And guess what?? He said all the same stuff as Juggernaut, Artur, Tigranness and who ever more who states that everybody who adapts to the counties they live in is ‘not Armenian’. Cheerio!well, I certainly do not encourage marrying out of the race, but if that's what he chose, I hope he's happy.You're right Hasmik, all these guys are just talking the talk, let's see if they'll actually walk the walk. Lack of integrity is what i hate most in a guy.lastly, I certainly do not agree that anyone who assimilates is not armenian. I believe it is merely a means of survival. If we're trying to make a living in a western world, we have to assimilate somewhat. of course, i hope we still hold on to our core armenian beliefs and values, however, lifestyle, obviously has to change. nellie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arturian Posted February 28, 2002 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 OK, Thoth, now i will say things about you. You call me disrespectful and all fashioned with no respect to women. Look at you. You talk in public about your wife and you having sex, and you happy that she had sex before marriage. It is the sign of respect to her or disrespect? You see your wife as a tool for your satisfaction, and disgracefully talk about it in public with some kids (yes kids for your age). You call your self moral, and say your way is wrong. Define!!! Is western way right? In what way? That girls have sex like cats before marriage? Is our society wrong because it does not legalize drugs, but in your society, even kids can buy cocain heroin etc. Is west better than us? Homosexuals, transexuals, pedophilies etc. are everywhere. People rape kids like nothing. 3 year old - 2 year old they don't care. Prostitution has such a high percentage, and people like you think prostitution is just the way of earning money, and this encourages young kids to go for it. Or the west better in the way that there is such disrespect to parents. Let me remind you that in your society kids raise voice at their parents, and throw bad words at them ... Kids in YOUR society respect FRIENDS MORE THAN PARENTS !!! People in your society respect wifes more than parents!!! Is this right then? Or it is right that kids walk aroung with guns shooting their teachers in schools????? In what way it is better??? Is it better in the way that husband and wife INVITE THIRD PARTY FOR THEIR SEXUAL GAMES TO HAVE SATISFACTION ????? Is your society better in the way that guys walk around calling girls bitches instead of showing respect to the most beautiful part of mankind??? Is our way worse, because we show highest respect to our girls??? I have never ever called an armenian girl in bad way as my mouth wouldn't do that. Is our society worse because women don't sleep with boses but stay at home watching HOLY THING CALLED KIDS??? Is our society worse that our women are so loyal to their husbands??? Is our society wrong because men, do whatever it takes to protect their family??? Is our way wrong when men does not allow woman to drive car, BECAUSE HE CARES SO MUCH ABOUT HER HELTH and doesn't want her to be heart??? Open your eyes and sing, as you don't see such things... you are blind... blind old guy who's got no business but to argue with some kids. You have your own children, go and spend more time with them rather than here! What is your point of life? What is life for you? To have good time before you die? Life is about kids, life is about relatives, your parents. To make sure that they are happy. You call me stupid and childish. You are right, I am stupid, i spend so much time here arguining with your type people. I am already 20 year old and I am ashamed that I haven't yet build a house for my mother in Greece. Bro, I don't want to offend you, I don't want to arue with you. We are all armenians here and you armenian too and I wish you all the best, and all the best to your family. I wish your kids be the happiest in the world and have all the wealth. But start respecting who you are, start respecting our traditions, cos these are traditions of your grandfathers and grandmothers. Movses, wether you or her I don't care i want it to be removed. Obviously you don't see a problem here. No comments... Kazza, i ask you to remove the first 2 lines of your signiture. Pls do so. Regards,Artur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Artur - well you are right..I don't have time to answer you right now - I must attend to my kids! Briefly - I don't disagree with some of what you say - but it is a worst case view and does not represent most of reality here. And of course i do disagree with a number of your assertions - particularly about women driving cars - please. If you cannot understand why this is a non-issue (over here) and even somewhat questionable (back in Armenia - IMO) then I am afraid that ther is little hope for you. BTW - sex with my wife is great, and no - you are not invited... Bye kids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Movses, wether you or her I don't care i want it to be removed. Obviously you don't see a problem here. No comments... Kazza, i ask you to remove the first 2 lines of your signiture. Pls do so. Artur i do see a problem, but it's not up to me to teal Kazza to remove or not remove, i do not say many thinks but that those not mean that thus are not problems. like You Artur registering a #HyeForum i on IRC and having topic liek www.Hayastan.com or something like that. like you posting your web address , like you sabotaging trades, whey would you do this Arturo ??? maybe you have a intention ? hmm lets see you do own a Armenian Forum your self don't you .? teal me if registering a #hayforum was not intentional?? tell me that you haven't tried directing traffic from this web site ?? if tear is problems or problematic person that I need to deal wit you will be the #1 so don't let me loose my cool and bust your chaps for your childish games that your playing. cut the crap!!! i do not have the time or the helth. before you point a finger on any person, take a good look at your self. see haw many fingers are pointed at you ... iy iy iy iy iy when it's time for us to interfere we will interfere / and Think 10 times and post once!!! in your case Think 100 times and post once!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernaut Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 quote:TOTH was being sarcastic to make his point, you don't have to get all dramatic about it now.There is a time and place for everything, as far as I am concearned we are discussing a very important issue here. In fact I dont think I have ever read a serious post by him. quote:But do you really believe that this topic - your contention that European Girls dress poorly or such is a serious topic? The topic is moral Armenian behaviour... quote:I imagine there is not much else to do in New Zealand than eat and survey the available sheep...Thats right keep floggin the same horse, because its not gonna get you any further.... quote:So I encourage you to go to Armenian and see what it is really likeIndeed with the introduction of 'democracy' things have changed for the better. As for the story about the Morroccan girl, what can I say, either he was a weakling or he just needed to talk about something (because he was devoid of other topics)....maybe he was trying to impress you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigrannesIII Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 The only 'cosmopolitan' Armenians in Western Armenia were those living in Constantinople. My family was rich and educated in Western Armenia (most were poor peasants), but they were about the most religious people you would ever meet. So that shoots another assumption of yours up. As for me being Western? Hardly. I have to put on a face for my American friends, but I can be myself with my Hayasdantsi friends, to a lesser extent my foreign friends (India, Singapore, Serbia, etc). Well, my mother is more Armenian than most of the 'Armenians' here, she's responsible for the majority of morals I believe in. Stop bringing up my mother, I don't bring up yours. At least mine had the sense to marry an Armenian and raise her children with Armenian morals. We'll see what happens when I go there. Ooooh, living conditions. That really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things and everything I plan to do. As for maturity? You're about the most immature person on this forum. I thought you were college educated. And how can you think I'm going to be in shock- it's not like you've ever been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 Tigranes III, My family were also wealthy and educated, with lawyers and doctors present. They one residence in Bolise, one in the Anatolian interior and a vacation home on an island off the coast. My father was studying in Europe at the time of the Genocide. My mother was also very religious in her youth, but she was betrayed by her church. So my perspectives are different than yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasmiek Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 Well TOTH, I would take all this "you are so immature "accusations as a big compliment. At least you seem to be enjoying your life and not behaving like a 70 year old demented man, Like some people do around here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arturian Posted March 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 Movses Jan, the channel problem is out topic. If you have questions PM me. And also don't worry about my traffic, I believe i already generate twice as much as your portal. But that's not the point here. About childish games. These are discussions and thank me from driving some traffic to your forum. 90% of discussions come from me. I am afraid without me your forum would be more or less dead. That's one thing. Another thing about fingers pointed at me. What is the problem here? Did I break your code of regulations?? Did i disrespected you and/or anyone? Did I ever swear here? No! Therefore there no fingers can be pointed at me!!! These are discussions and in democratical way people have a right to express its opinions and others have a right to disagree with me. Bro, you have some issues and problems with me, others rather I believe don't think so. And about 100 times... I get it as an offence. I will not reply to this. Regards,Artur [ March 01, 2002, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: ARTURian ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koko Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 Arthur you show us the patriarcalic value of men in armenian sociaity wich i personally think should be wiped off.I have meet people like you, sadly, there are many in armenia today who see girls only as objects. women should spend more time caring about how they look than what they achieve in life? I was refering to another post by your Arthur,i see the discussion has gotten further. Anyway, i take back stupid, (stupid...) [ March 04, 2002, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: koko ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 quote:Originally posted by hasmiek:Well TOTH, I would take all this "you are so immature "accusations as a big compliment. At least you seem to be enjoying your life and not behaving like a 70 year old demented man, Like some people do around here...Yes, exactly. Unlike many my age (and even younger aparently) - I have never lost the child in me and I don't think I ever will. I can just stand amazed looking at the sky, the trees and all that is around me. And people are just endlessly facsinating. I have fun with my children on a level that I think few parents truly do - at the same time I have always addressed them as people - not "just" children. Everyone (their teachers, people who meet them etc) comment on their sense of wonder and intense interest in their world around them (and on their intelligence [though I know most Armenian parents are used ot this...LOL]). My wife and I are instilling excellent values in them (chief among them is tolerance and acceptance of diversity). And Artur - my children never "talk back" to us in nasty ways etc or show disrespect (OK - maybe when they are ill or in an intense emotional moment - rarely though) - as we do not disrespect them (and this takes a certain consideration and effort - and is the opposite of a "children are to be seen and not heard" attitude). You would be amazed I think. They also always get complimented for their politeness and good behavior in public. (I don't meen to imply that they don't ever get wild & out of control - often even (daily?...LOL) - but they are boys & are young - and we can reign them in if they get too rambunctious). Oh - and I do like a good joke - certainly - but to those I am joking with - do not misinterpret my joviality as not taking (at least aspects of) this discussion seriously - and do not think I make light because I have nothing to say. I believe that I am making my points quite well...I hope that you are perceptive ans perhaps open enough to learn at least a little something out of it - as I will attempt to at least understand your perspective(s) - even if I don't (for the most part) agree with them... Oh, and did I mention sex in the post yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:These are discussions and thank me from driving some traffic to your forum. 90% of discussions come from me. I am afraid without me your forum would be more or less dead. That's one thing.Don't give yourself toomuch credit. Ref: several thousand posts that occured before you entering this forum... quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Another thing about fingers pointed at me. What is the problem here? Did I break your code of regulations?? Did i disrespected you and/or anyone? Did I ever swear here? No! Therefore there no fingers can be pointed at me!!! These are discussions and in democratical way people have a right to express its opinions and others have a right to disagree with me. Bro, you have some issues and problems with me, others rather I believe don't think so. Regards,ArturI don't understand what it is you are being accused of - but from my perspective you have not violated any forum rules or (directly) insulted anyone - indirectly or as a group - sure - but I think we can handle it (knowing the source....LOL). Your "offensiveness" is confined to some of your ideas - and we cannot be afraid of ideas - they should be freely explored - agree with them or not - offended or not (to a point I guess). And if we disagree with one another we should be freely able to express such and present an alternative view. (Do you not agree?) There are lessons on these discussions - obvious or not - for all of us.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 And back to the topic of our discussion - European (or perhaps Western girls)....Artur - what is your opinion on how they look/present themselves when older? I for one have found that older women in North America & Western Europe (in general) are taking much better physical care of themselves - keeping fit and such (and perhaps availing themselves of cosmetic surgeries & what not or at least using products to help them maintian a younger look). I am not necessarily a fan of cosmetic surgery (though its a personl choice IMO....and in some cases the results certainly speak for themselves) but in general I am finding that (many) older women in the West are maintaining their attractiveness well on...while most "old world" women (including most[?] older Armenian women) let themselves go after marraige - get fat, dress ragedly etc etc - do you agree with this perspective or do you have a different view? And why might this be (if you agree)? Are "old world" women less motivated to stay beautiful for some reason? Why might this be so? And don't you think that it is a good thing that women in the West are taking care of themselves (health & looks) better? I certainly do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigrannesIII Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 quote:Originally posted by hagarag:Tigranes III, My family were also wealthy and educated, with lawyers and doctors present. They one residence in Bolise, one in the Anatolian interior and a vacation home on an island off the coast. My father was studying in Europe at the time of the Genocide. My mother was also very religious in her youth, but she was betrayed by her church. So my perspectives are different than yours.Yea, see. They were in Constantinople. Mine never left their village outside of Kharpert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arturian Posted March 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 quote:Originally posted by koko:Arthur you show us the patriarcalic man in the armenian sociaity wich i personally think should be wiped off..I have meet people like you. Sadly, there are many in armenia today who see girls as objects, a woman should care more of how they look than what they achieve in life. I wonder what your mother sais? I hate stupid men like youI am not here to explain myself 50 times again. Read my previous posts and you will understand. About hate, how can you hate me if you don't know me? Of course what's inside of person matter, what she achieved. I don't want to sound offensive but your post itself was not of clever category. It seems that you have some issues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arturian Posted March 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 Thoth i do agree in most of you points (surprise?). About elder people here, mostly they look very good, sometimes even amazingly good. And it indeed seems that western women are driven towards fitness etc. And it a good thing! Agree! About cosmetic surgery, here again from religious point of view i have to disagree. But mainly i do agree with you. And the best of health to your boys, you are a happy man, GOD gave you a true happiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 OK Artur my friend - my response: quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:OK, Thoth, now i will say things about you. You call me disrespectful and all fashioned with no respect to women. Look at you. You talk in public about your wife and you having sex, and you happy that she had sex before marriage. It is the sign of respect to her or disrespect? You see your wife as a tool for your satisfaction, and disgracefully talk about it in public with some kids (yes kids for your age). You call your self moral, and say your way is wrong. Define!!!Being able to openly and freely talk about sex is a sign of an enlightned attitude IMO. I understand that there are limits of sensibilities and that this is audience dependent...but no - I don't think I have breeched such (and if I have - to you and those with your attitudes - it is only to make a point), nor do I think I am being disrespectful in any way (and i am sorry if you are really upset - but perhaps you will loosen up a bit - eh?). Additionally, I think you presume much too much when you speculate concerning my maritial and parental relations and such. quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Is western way right? In what way? That girls have sex like cats before marriage? Yes, in general I believe that the "Western Way" is right (for us) - and that aspects of your "traditional way" are wrong (for women for instance). The respect for individual liberty and choice is a paramount value for us (in the U.S. particularly). Obviously some will "abuse" this and act in unhealthful or otherwise less then desireable ways (affecting person 7 society as a whole)- this is unfourtunate and needs to be combated by proper education (and laws that punish behaviors harmful to others and to the society). Ultimatly ones behavior is a matter of individual choice - as long as it does not adversely affect others or the society. If and when it does - then there should be personal consequences/punishment. Until then - it is a matter of choice (IMO and consistent with the principals our nation was founded upon). These are values we hold dear in the West and we accept a certain amount of aberrent or problimatic behaviors etc in order that the majority can have such freedoms (and resultant oppurtunities). The hope is that people will be mature and make good choices and that individuals and society as a whole will benefit. Would you really prefer to be treated as a child and given excessive rules etc to tell you right from wrong? Obviously some (minority) need this - but should we all have to be so hampered? Is life really better this way (ie. would you really prefer the Soviet/Communist model? I certainly hope not - in my mind the totalitarian path is certainly one to be avoided/opposed. Again back to the "sex like cats" comment. No I don't think this is a good thing per se. (Do you think it is OK for guys but not women though - as Juggernaut believes?). At the same time I will not specify for others how they should live their lives and what may work for them. I will encourage education as to the dangers of risky behaviors and also attempt to impart an understanding of the value of relationships between people and the physical and emotional responsibilities of such (and the need for maturity and judgement in making such decisions). Most of the problems in this realm - IMO - are due to insufficient education. Our young are bombarded with such conflicting images and inputs. They need responsible adults/role models (whom they can trust) to learn from and discuss things with - and not in pejorative manner - but with someone who can understand what they are facing and how they might be reacting intellectually and emotionally to the world around them, including the pressures from their peers and from media and such. The world has become so much more complicated and difficult for young people - we cannot face it with our heads in the sand. And it is the parents responsibility to assist their children by explaining things (or in some cases restricting them from exposure - if possible) quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Is our society wrong because it does not legalize drugs, but in your society, even kids can buy cocain heroin etc. This is a very complicated issue (perhaps warrenting another thread if folks are really interested in discussing in more detail). Briefly however I think that you will find drug use/abuse issues in every society (this includes alcohol as well) - and they are likely to be growing in Armenia and such places (and do not think such behaviors are entirely new even in Armenia - even if you don't see them. I never or rarely ever see any signs of illegal drug use - though I know it must occur and be going on around me. I do see some alcohol abuse though [and such things as drunk drivers on the road] - as I imagine you do and did - even back in Armenia - be honest now...). Because of the rapid change in society, the faster pace and types of pressures on people - we see more people abusing various drugs (for escape/entertainment/counter-stimulation etc etc)- this is certainly not a good thing. Again, education is needed and alternatives for stimulation & entertainment etc. We also have to recognize that a certain percentage of the population will take this route regardless and our society(s) need(s) to find a way to constructively deal with this so it does not become an epidemic (as it has). We have not solved this problem with our current (outdated/unevolved) models. Just by keeping substances illegal is no guarrentee that it will not be available and or practiced/consumed etc. You should understand this empirically. So what is too be done? Again - I believe education and involvement of parents with their children and the availability of alternatives for entertainment hold the key. At the same time I imagine that (any/all) societies will have to accept a certain amont of drug use (& abuse) - the key is balancing the former while minimizing the latter and attempting to coral such use into acceptable patterns that minimize the disruptiveness and impact on the rest of us. quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Is west better than us? Homosexuals, transexuals, pedophilies etc. are everywhere. People rape kids like nothing. 3 year old - 2 year old they don't care.I don't see the first two the same as the last examples. I think our societies must accept homosexuals &, transexuals & such at some level (basically little or no different from other of more conventional sexual preference). These are indivdual choices IMO and the instance of such inclined people is historical and present in all societies - not just the West. Some of the greatest people in history have practiced such behaviors - so to me these are non-issues. Obviously pediophiles and rapists are a different story and I believe they need to be severly punished and aggresively discouraged. Again, I do not believe that these behaviors are new or necessarily any more prevelant in the West then in other societies or in history - they are just publiscized more. Speaking of such - what does it say about the Catholic Church (and perhaps other organized religious institutions that proscribe somewhat unatural sexual mores upon their clergy) - that they have such a history and seeming institutionalization of these very sexual predatory/abherent behaviors? quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Prostitution has such a high percentage, and people like you think prostitution is just the way of earning money, and this encourages young kids to go for it. No - I would not say it is "just" a way to earn money - not at all (this should be obvious I think). At the same time I think that we must accept that it will occur - that there is a (legitimate) demand for such services and that this has been occuring since perhaps the dawn of mankind [or at the very least with the advent of civilization...."oldest proffesion" and all}. So again, what is to be done? Do we (like drugs) keep it in the hands of the criminal underground? Unregulated, etc etc dangerous, criminal? - to me this encourages the young & suseptible and promotes disease, crime and other associated problems....or do we accept the fact that this exists and attempt to set some reasonable limits - for age, hygiene etc...and make it a less lucrative criminal enterprise? Are you aware of the issues with young Armenian women becomming prostitutes in various places of the world? An appauling situation don't you think? So what is the solution for this (I think we can agree that it is a) problem? Do you have some traditional approach to solve it? Why is your "perfect society" succumbing to such? quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Or the west better in the way that there is such disrespect to parents. Let me remind you that in your society kids raise voice at their parents, and throw bad words at them ... Kids in YOUR society respect FRIENDS MORE THAN PARENTS !!! People in your society respect wifes more than parents!!! Is this right then? There is a problem with proper parenting (and associated media influences etc) admittedly. But - not all children are this way - I think you would be surprised at the high percentage of "good kids" we have over here. It could be better, admittedly - but there is no test or standard that one must pass/meet to become a parent unfourtunatly - and our society can be doing a better job helping to instil good values (when many parents don't seem capable of handling it for various reasons). And the environment does make it more difficult then in the "traditional" setting - this is true. It is a challenge for us - one we must address (as a culture/nation etc)...I fear our leaders & system may not be up to it...(and I agree with you this is a problem/deficiency...but again the media coverage makes it seem worse then it is - the great majority of our young children today are being brought up very well I think) quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Or it is right that kids walk aroung with guns shooting their teachers in schools????? In what way it is better???Yea, this is a darwinian process - only the best teachers will survive - it will make us stronger as a nation - ha ha ha ha ha (evil laughter...) (LOL - joke...). Yes - this is a problem - and is an inherrent dilemma in our society - particularly in the U.S. - the concept of freedom (in this case for citizens to possess arms to enable them to defend themselves against potential government tyrrany) and that of public safety (availablity of guns + presence of certain percentage of nutso's etc = problems). Obviously each nation/society must determine the acceptable balance between such "freedoms" and the consequences to society. I would agree with you to some degree that perhaps we - in the U.S. are too far toward the freedom side in this (many here would disagree) - this is a societal chioce - and we have (democratic process) mechanisms to adjust (to some degree) where we stand on such. Unfortunatly the number of available guns makes this difficult & problematic. Again though - there is an aspect of media highlighting the problem beyond what it really is (for most places here). I think most people go through their lives here with little or no exposure to such violence (of course it disproportionatly affects the poor and poor/urban areas - but the same could be said for problems in any society). quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Is it better in the way that husband and wife INVITE THIRD PARTY FOR THEIR SEXUAL GAMES TO HAVE SATISFACTION ?????Again - this is perhaps an individual choice and a complicated issue. Maybe it is better? Maybe it could prevent a divorce - I really don't know - there are many arguments both ways - and again it is not a simple thing - as personal relationships like this are a delicate matter - but this (or whatever) may work for some people - and they may be able to function perfectly well in society and be good people in all respects etc etc - it is not our place to judge others in this way - IMO. Again I don't think this is really the norm - as much as your consumption of soap operas or what-have-you might make you think. By and large I think most people are fairly conservative on the sanctity of the husband-wife relationship - and most people are not emotionally wired for this sort of thing anyway. But for those that are - well - good for them - enjoy & such - I hope that they are happy and all (and otherwise obey all traffic laws and do their jobs well & function normally in society & such....) quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Is your society better in the way that guys walk around calling girls bitches instead of showing respect to the most beautiful part of mankind??? Is our way worse, because we show highest respect to our girls??? I have never ever called an armenian girl in bad way as my mouth wouldn't do that.I agree with you here. I don't like such behavior or language - I do not practice such nor do I condone it (and not just toward Armenian girls - are you dsaying its OK to call non-Armenian women names?). Again - I think this is a subset/element of our society - it is not really commonplace and it is neither widely condoned nor is it considered "classy". I do understand that it is perhaps common lingo among some young people - and perhaps its evolved into some kind of term of enderement...LOL - but I agree - it does not appeal to me - and I don't find it acceptable. And aside from MTV or some movies etc its not something I am much exposed to really... quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Is our society worse because women don't sleep with boses but stay at home watching HOLY THING CALLED KIDS??? Is our society worse that our women are so loyal to their husbands??? Is our society wrong because men, do whatever it takes to protect their family??? Is our way wrong when men does not allow woman to drive car, BECAUSE HE CARES SO MUCH ABOUT HER HELTH and doesn't want her to be heart???Well I gues if you don't let women work they can't sleep with the boss...LOL. No - I don't think this is good behavior - shame on you girls (and guys)! I say - so I agree with you. And yes this does/can occur - less often in real life then in the soaps/movies I think - but because of our society having more interaction between men and women (not married to each other) this will happen to some degree (its just a natural thing...unfortunatly...one would hope that adults could understand the potential consequences of their rash actions and control their impulses - but some don't...and perhaps some do understand and just make that choice - for some it may even be the right choice - their spouse may not be the right match for them for whatever reason - not that there still aren't bad aspects to this [children issues] but sometimes this situation may even turn out better in the end - overall - and maybe a bad relationship/situation may actually have been avoided or such...perhaps the spouse was abusive or negligent....many possibilities...). Again society must balance freedoms for women with a certain aknowledgement that these kinds of "problems" or situations will occur to some degree. I for one think that you have to accept this to a certain extent - and accept that the family (like everything else) may be more fluid then before and may be defined differently - though not in all cases. I have a very stable family relationship - as do most people here - most of us are in fact more "traditional" then our media/movies etc might portray. At the same time it is certainly not my place to restrict my wife from any priviledges and such (or in the case of a car in our society - necessities) as I would have. Sure - perhaps certain risks are involved - but we all must accept some - don't you think? Or must we always be as children and told what to do? Even you do (or would regarding a wife - if you had one) - say more so than if you were a fundementalist Muslim and would not even let the wife out of the house unescorted and showing her face (or ankles) and all. Just think how such a person would berate you for your liberal and scandalous ideas/behaviors! quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Open your eyes and sing, as you don't see such things... you are blind... blind old guy who's got no business but to argue with some kids. You have your own children, go and spend more time with them rather than here!I think it is you who are blind(ed)...what can I say? And I spend a great great deal of time with my children, thank you. I imagine I spend quite a bit more actual (and what we call quality) time with them then the traditional father in the "old school" model of things. quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:What is your point of life? What is life for you? To have good time before you die? Life is about kids, life is about relatives, your parents. To make sure that they are happy.Yes, all of the above. And to consider the future of my children, my nation, and our planet...and to work toward the betterment of such. quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:You call me stupid and childish. You are right, I am stupid, i spend so much time here arguining with your type people. I am already 20 year old and I am ashamed that I haven't yet build a house for my mother in Greece. I don't think I have ever called you either stupid or childish. I may have used these words mimicking your portryal of me - quoting you and such. I don't think that you are either stupid or childish - you have other problems I think. (being close minded and rigid and not rerally seeing [deeply] what is around you). You could perhaps nuture the child in you a bit more and lighten up a bit - you will likely live longer, be happier, and be more pleasent to be around. quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Bro, I don't want to offend you, I don't want to arue with you. We are all armenians here and you armenian too and I wish you all the best, and all the best to your family. I wish your kids be the happiest in the world and have all the wealth. Thank you. quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:But start respecting who you are, start respecting our traditions, cos these are traditions of your grandfathers and grandmothers.I have a great deal of respect for my Armenian heritage and the trials of my family and our people. At the same time I realise that time does not stand still. In fact, due to the advent of new technology (since the "discovery" of electricity) change is happening more rapidly then ever before. Human beings are evolving into something different (whether we wish for it or not - it is ocuring) and the "rules" are changing along with this - sometimes too slowly to keep up - causing friction and uncertainty and such. it is up to us to understand what is occuring and to attempt to deal with it to influence our development in the right direction. There will be false starts and problems...many (and they do and should bother/pain us and influence us to try to improve). But attempting to maintian as it has always been is not an option - not for the world as a whole - no matter how much you and I may wish it (and in many cases the "old way" is perpetuating less then good aspects of our societies, ideas, relationships etc that we should be moving away from as we mature as human beings). We are entering an era that will see the greatest change in our species that has ever occured - we must maintain our adaptability to deal with it. This is the trait that allowed us to survive and prosper over the Neantertal. Which will you be? quote:Originally posted by ARTURian:Movses, wether you or her I don't care i want it to be removed. Obviously you don't see a problem here. No comments... Kazza, i ask you to remove the first 2 lines of your signiture. Pls do so. Regards,ArturKazza's signature is a non-issue - IMO. To force her to remove it is unwarrented censorship of the worse kind (IMO). What if she was saying that flowers were beautiful and that she liked to skydive - and I happened to be offended because I was colorblind and afraid of heights or such - do I have any right to force her to not express her views? She is not advocating dismembering anyone or expressing racial hatred or such - I think we have seen far worse on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 Tigrannes III, You have proven my point, that the rural and small city dwellers question less the tenets of their church fathers than the residents of the cosmopolitan cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 Movses Jan, the channel problem is out topic. will lets see - the name of this topic is European Girls - and your discussing KAzzas Signature - so ser. Artur it's ok for you to discus anything you like but whey cant i discus your behavior ?? you register a channel under this forums name, using the name of this forum you drive traffic to your web-page, I say this is a game that only a kid will play. About childish games. These are discussions and thank me from driving some traffic to your forum. 90% of discussions come from me. I am afraid without me your forum would be more or less dead. That's one thing.your giving way to much credit to your self. will their is only one way to fondant. Another thing about fingers pointed at me. you can not talk strata can you you always have to go zigzags. and one more think I'm not your BRO and this is not Est. LA. i have a name. democratical way people have a right to express its opinions then way are you pushing your opinion on them ?? I believe one can express his/her opinion without hurting anyone. I believe i already generate twice as much as your portal i have stopped counting the hits and have deleted most of the counter on our web site long time a go since you know haw much traffic we are getting you might provide us by the numbers. then agene whey would you bee interested in haw much traffic this or the other portals are getting. or haw would you know since i don't even know the exact numbers my self. MOvses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 artur xosqert chapavori - yev minch iys kam iyn andzi ethikayi yev kam morrali masin xosel@ inq@t qo morali yev kam etikayi masin mtatsy, iyn inch verabervum e #hyeforumi masin Hayer@ menq dran anvanum enq GYADAYUTYUN, enpes vor hangist - hangist terr@t nsty menak zguysh hetevi voter@T chjartes, nsty basamaxi vra p@rchulaxov pirog@ ker du der shat unes eticayi yev morali masin xoselu hamar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigrannesIII Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 quote:Originally posted by hagarag:Tigrannes III, You have proven my point, that the rural and small city dwellers question less the tenets of their church fathers than the residents of the cosmopolitan cities.Who are we to question the church? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted March 2, 2002 Report Share Posted March 2, 2002 quote:Originally posted by TigrannesIII:Who are we to question the church?LOL - yes Tigrannes - and who are Germans who would question Hitler? Do you truly believe that we are such children that cannot judge things for ourselves - that always must accept the word of some supposed authority figure? Pathetic. Hope for your sake you never get in with a Jim Jones... You are becomming more and more a charactature and a joke...you talk of being offended and such by my values - well yours (as expressed - though I really don't believe you) are truly frightening if you ask me...who are we to question? Are you truly so ignorant/unappreciative of the Western philosophical tradition? What makes you any different then taliban & such...? What a joke... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted March 2, 2002 Report Share Posted March 2, 2002 Who are we to question...my my.... [ March 01, 2002, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigrannesIII Posted March 2, 2002 Report Share Posted March 2, 2002 quote:Originally posted by THOTH: quote:Originally posted by TigrannesIII:Who are we to question the church?LOL - yes Tigrannes - and who are Germans who would question Hitler? Do you truly believe that we are such children that cannot judge things for ourselves - that always must accept the word of some supposed authority figure? Pathetic. Hope for your sake you never get in with a Jim Jones... You are becomming more and more a charactature and a joke...you talk of being offended and such by my values - well yours (as expressed - though I really don't believe you) are truly frightening if you ask me...who are we to question? Are you truly so ignorant/unappreciative of the Western philosophical tradition? What makes you any different then taliban & such...? What a joke...Isn't it your place in the liberal West to accept me and not be offended by me? Hypocrite. All liberals are hypocritical in that regard though. Everyone except the right can have their say and have to be left alone. You're just as bad as me because I don't conform to your thoughts. Don't confuse religion with politics. Hitler was an anti-Christ. It is not my place to question a 1700 year old institution, obviously they're doing something right. And my love for my Church, my God, and my Savior is greatest of all. Didn't you know that I begin deacon training soon? And also, you have NO respect for your ancestors. I thought like you when I was 13. At least I've matured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted March 2, 2002 Report Share Posted March 2, 2002 Well Tigrannes you miss my point entirely - that is that I am appauled by the attitude from any educated person that says they will follow something/someone blindly without question. Good luck with Deacon pursuit. BTW - you musr find your gal & marry soon - otherwise too late for you (if you stick with that is). I think the Armenian church can use some more American born priests (though I'm not sure you are the one in some respects..no matter - i do wish you the best of luck...I imagine they will be loath for you to leave the U.S. though - were you are needed more than in Armenia (numbers issue). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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