Takoush Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) So could all the other Armenians living there. Are you going to call them suckers as well for keeping to themselves and never saying a bad word about Turkey in public, even after they leave the country? I'm not worried one bit that he'll change his tune once that country calms down a bit, removes article 301, burns down every Ataturk poster in sight, and decides to abide by the basic laws of human rights. We saw what happened to Dink. Other Armenians in Turkey realize that that will be their fate if they speak up. They have known this since 1915. He's only trying to keep the one church that is still allowed to be kept alive alive. Yes, it's very easy to speak from the heights of the diaspora. If you're referring about Mutafian; well you are right. We are here and he is there amidst the same Turks since the 1915 era. Not much has changed. So I agree with your thoughts Nairi. It is very hard and not so right for us to judge any and all the Armenians that are still living in there. Whether it is the head of the churches, a reporter, a heroic spokesperson and doer like Dink or a quiet Armenian man sitting quietly in his corner. Edited January 21, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 OSCE Called Hrant Dink's Assassination a `Cowardly Act' 20.01.2007 /PanARMENIAN.Net/ OSCE representative on Media freedom Miklós Haraszti released a statement, which condemns Armenian journalist Hrant Dink's assassination in Istanbul. Particularly, the statement says violence against journalists must not remain unpunished. `We call upon Turkish authorities to find the murderers as soon as possible,' says Haraszti. `Hrant Dink was one of the most famous representatives of the Armenian Diaspora in Turkey, who was speaking on its problems publicly. His assassination is a cowardly act,' Haraszti underlines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Turkey Responsible for Dink's Murder 20.01.2007 /PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Federation of Armenian Organizations in the Netherlands (FAON) is shocked to hear of the assassination of Armenian journalist Hrant Dink living in Turkey. Just last month Dink visited the Netherlands to receive the Oxfam pen Award. Dink was a brave man, who was future oriented. In many ways Turkey carries responsibility for the death of Dink. By educating generations with the superiority of the Turks and with the denial of the Armenian Genocide for decades the Turks in fact have been stirring up Turks against Armenians. Also Turkey didn't give protection to Hrant Dink, he was in fact outlawed,' says the FAON statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Reporters without borders -France (press release) Jan 19 2007 Deep shock over Turkish-Armenian editor's murder today in Istanbul Reporters Without Borders said it was deeply shocked by the murder of Hrant Dink, editor and columnist of the bilingual Turkish-Armenian weekly Agos, who was gunned down by an unidentified man today outside his newspaper in Istanbul. `This murder will distress and disturb all those who defend the freedom of thought and expression in Turkey and elsewhere,' the press freedom organisation said. `The Turkish government must weigh the extreme gravity of this crime and ensure that a thorough investigation identifies those responsible as quickly as possible.' Reporters Without Borders added: `This will be a key test for a country that hopes to join the European Union. No one would understand if Turkey failed to do everything possible to shed light on this tragedy.' Aged 53, Dink was killed by several shots fired at him shortly after midday as he was outside the premises of his privately-owned newspaper in Sisli, a district on the European side of Istanbul. The police said they were looking for a youth aged about 18 or 19 wearing a jean-jacket and a white beret. A well-known journalist and one who was respected by his colleagues, Dink was the target of several prosecutions over his views on the massacre of Armenians under the Ottoman empire. In 2005, he received six-month suspended sentence for `humiliating Turkish identity.' He was prosecuted against in September 2006 over an interview he gave to Reuters in which he referred to the massacres in Anatolia during the First World War as `genocide.' He had been facing a possible three-year prison sentence. Reporters Without Borders is supporting the call issued by the Coordinating Council of Armenian Organisations in France (CCAF) for a demonstration at noon tomorrow outside the Turkish embassy on Rue Ankara in Paris' 16th district. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 His Holiness Karekin II Condemns Assassination of Hrant Dink Mother See of Holy Echmiadzin, Information Services PRESS RELEASE His Holiness' letter states in part: "We learned of Hrant Dink's assassination yesterday with deep sorrow. His untimely and tragic death has shocked us all. We and all our people grieve the loss of yet another intellectual who has become an innocent victim. In the strongest of terms, we condemn this clandestine assassination which took from our people a graceful and courageous son, who faithfully brought his service with his pen for the love of a just, free and peaceful life and better world. We also expect that the authorities of Turkey will uncover and punish the individuals responsible for this crime to the fullest extent of the law." By order of the Pontiff of All Armenians, following the Divine Liturgy on Sunday, January 21, a special Repose of Souls service will be offered in the Mother Cathedral of Holy Etchmiadzin and all Armenian Church dioceses throughout the world, asking for rest for the soul of Hrant Dink of blessed memory. Blessed be the memory of the righteous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 ANTONIO R. VILLARAIGOSA Mayor City of Los Angeles 200 N. Spring St. Los Angeles, CA 90012 (213) 978-0600 PRESS RELEASE January 19, 2007 Contact: Matt Szabo 213-978-0741 matt.szabo@lacity.org STATEMENT OF MAYOR ANTONIO VILLARAIGOSA ON THE ASSASSINATION OF HRANT DINK Los Angeles - Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa made the following statement today regarding the assassination of Hrant Dink: "The People of Los Angeles stand in solidarity today with people around the world in mourning the death of Hrant Dink, the editor of Agos Armenian Daily newspaper in Turkey. Our thoughts and prayers go out to Mr. Dink's family as they mourn the loss of a husband and father whose life was tragically and barbarically cut short. "The assassination of Mr. Dink is not only an attack on the Armenian community of Turkey; it is an assault on freedom of speech, truth, and justice everywhere. Mr. Dink spoke frankly and courageously about the history of the Armenian Genocide, and he stood up unflinchingly for the best traditions of his profession. His passion and bravery stand as challenge to us all. "We join with the international community in condemning this brutal attack, and we hope that the perpetrators of this crime are brought to justice swiftly and fairly." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 has anyone ever asked it's self what is it takes to be an ARMENIAN PATRIARCH in Turkey ?? i don't; have much of respect for the man / at times it's so obvious that his just a poppet in the hands of turkish politicians - but please ask your self at what cost can you be a ARMENIAN PATRIARCH in ISTAMBUL ??? AT WHAT COST CAN YOU STILL BE A ARMENIAN Christan ? have over a dozen of churches in and close to istanbul ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 City of Los Angeles OFFICE OF CITY COUNCILMEMBER WENDY GREUEL PRESS RELEASE Contact: Ben Golombek (213) 473-7002 January 19, 2007 Statement by Councilmember Wendy Greuel in Response to Assassination of Hrant Dink LOS ANGELES - `The assassination of Hrant Dink, the editor of the Agos Armenian Daily newspaper in Turkey, is a blow to liberty and democracy not only in Turkey, but around the world. My thoughts and prayers go out to Mr. Dink's family and friends in this solemn hour. As George Bernard Shaw said `Assassination is the extreme form of censorship,' and the assassination of Mr. Dink was an attempt to censor the honesty with which he spoke. It is important to remember what Hrant Dink stood for, what he fought for and what he achieved. I urge those of us committed to freedom to continue to carry the flame of Mr. Dink, in the name of truth and justice around the world.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 has anyone ever asked it's self what is it takes to be an ARMENIAN PATRIARCH in Turkey ?? i don't; have much of respect for the man / at times it's so obvious that his just a poppet in the hands of turkish politicians - but please ask your self at what cost can you be a ARMENIAN PATRIARCH in ISTAMBUL ??? AT WHAT COST CAN YOU STILL BE A ARMENIAN Christan ? have over a dozen of churches in and close to istanbul ??? It's hard for us to judge their stand, but if you have asked me, I would say they (the Armenian community) should've all gotten out of there. That would be my logical thoughts. But hey, to each its own. Some are there because of their belongings; money, property, business, whatever. What can anyone say? Not much to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihr Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 hrant dink was assassinated and this "eurocentric" is insulting us with racist intentions please ban him once and for all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurderer Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 If someone accuse Mutafian or dink, he should at least come Turkey and live Turkey. So maybe someone will listen him. It is easy to endanger others life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iminhokis Posted January 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) Anahid, why should Armenians leave? I cannot imagine living in Turkey nor spend more than 3 days there (to see my faimily), BUT I admire those who do- and who at the same time, remain armenian just as they are. Those who maintain our churches, our schools...... Hrant Dink was one of them who decided to stay HOME. He was not an immigrated armenian, as we all are somewhere in Lebanon, the States, Europe or anywhere else than Turkey and Armenia. This is Hrant Dink's last article, published on the day of his assasination in AGOS. To stay and resist But if we go, where then? To Armenia? But to what extent could a person like me tolarete the injustice as intolerant as I am at this issue? Wouldn't I find myself in greater troubles there? To go and live in European countries wasn't my style either. I know myself. After three days abroad, I miss my country. What should I do there? Ease makes me uneasy! To leave "boiling hells" and go to "ready heavens" was against my understanding. We were sort of people desiring to turn hell to heaven. To stay and live in Turkey was our real wish and and also a must of respect towards all of our known and unknown friends giving the struggle of democracy in Turkey and supporting us. We would stay and resist. However if someday we had to go, then we would go like in 1915... like our ancestors... Without knowing where to go.... Walking on the roads they had walked.... Feeling their pain and agony... With such a reproach we would leave our country. And we would not go to the place of our heart but where our feet went. To whatever place it was. Edited January 21, 2007 by iminhokis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) Anahid, why should Armenians leave? I cannot imagine living in Turkey nor spend more than 3 days there (to see my faimily), BUT I admire those who do- and who at the same time, remain armenian just as they are. Those who maintain our churches, our schools...... Hrant Dink was one of them who decided to stay HOME. He was not an immigrated armenian, as we all are somewhere in Lebanon, the States, Europe or anywhere else than Turkey and Armenia. This is Hrant Dink's last article, published on the day of his assasination in AGOS. Hrant's last words; "But if we go, where then?" Does he know where Yerevan is? Good points. Look back and see where I said; “Get the hell out of that hellhole”! You have a good debate. Yes a “dozens of churches”. Churches where? When did Istanbul become an Armenian Town? You have a good argument; “Dozen of Churches”. Are you not forgetting the time when we abandoned Aghtamar which is now being labeled as a “Christian Turkish Church”? A dozen churches? How soon we forget when we abandoned 1001, count them one thousand and one churches at Ani and made a qeue on the way to Klikia and beyond? A dozen of churches? Let’s make that 1002-3-4-5-6-7-8-9.…… add to that Aghtamar, Sb. Karapet, Sb.Astvatsatsin, Sb. Petros, Sb. Prkich, Sb.. Hakob at Aghori (not Aghri please!)…. and the list goes on. A dozen churches you say? Add those to the RUINS of Ani and see how many we get. How many more churches to gather and lament? GET THE HELL OUT OF THAT HELLHOLE! Nobody promised us Istanbul. When the Greeks re-conquer Hagia Sophia then we will negotiate with them. Why is Armenian Power always calculated by the number of abandoned and ruined churches? Come back when all these churches in LA and Louisiana are but ruins and a gathering places for lamentations. How about using all that stone to build a few fortresses in Yerevan instead of burning our hard earned monies lighting candles? Can we use all that money lighting Roman Candles, aka missiles? Edited January 21, 2007 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Imminhokis; For years now ever since I was a little girl I have always wondered why in the name of God those BolsaHays are still in Turkey? For heavens sake after 1915 I would've gotten the heck out of there and I mean forget about properties, money, whatever, I would've taken whatever I could, get my family and got out of there. Bolis is not and was never our country or piece of land. Armenian Highlands and Armenian Lowlads and today's Armenia were. At one time, Giligia was, and now thank God we still have the Republic of Armenia and also Artsax. But personally, I would have never stayed in Bolis. That's me, and I would never change my mind about this. Now Hrant Dink; was a hero and he was the voice of justice throughout the world for Armenians and all people on the globe who like that justice and democracy to prevail. But I still say, that Bolis was never ours; but to the Greeks (Constantinople); and I would've left a loooooooong time ago having and being in the right mind. Where to go? Armenia from there or Glendale, Eastern USA, Canada or France. A much more safer place for you and your family and in Glendale, France and even in the Eastern parts of USA and Canada you can do a great deal for your Armenia and yes from the Diaspora. Yes you can if you have the right mind, the right patriotism in your heart and the education to back you up for your goals and for your end results and dreams of your Armenia, for you sacred cause and for justice in the world to prevail too. Yes, Armenia would be a much safer and a saner place to be under those circumstances that the BolsaHays continue to live in Bolis, Turkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) If they want to stay, it's not that bad. After all, they are the last foothold of both Christians and Armenians in Turkey. Edited January 21, 2007 by Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Imminhokis; one more thing. The churches that you leave behind from Bolis are not important. Your Armenia where your land is today is important. What you can do for your country and for the good of your people by building new and better structures, cities and having them thrive is important. Now it's true that most of us unfortunately are in the Diaspora; but even from the Diaspora we can support, monetarily or otherwise, sometimes educate, visit and by thinking and working patriotically to and for Armenia to thrive are very positive acts and a must on our part. And perhaps some of us in the future we will think to relocate ourselves to the final place which is our real homeland; our ARMENIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 However if someday we had to go, then we would go like in 1915... like our ancestors... Without knowing where to go.... Walking on the roads they had walked.... Feeling their pain and agony... That's freaking symbolic, intellectuals were shot, killed right on the spot, they did not walk. Such was his fate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 However if someday we had to go, then we would go like in 1915... like our ancestors... Without knowing where to go.... Walking on the roads they had walked.... Feeling their pain and agony... That's freaking symbolic, intellectuals were shot, killed right on the spot, they did not walk. Such was his fate. I had the same feelings when I read it before your post. Do you think (expect) that something positive will come out of this tragic loss of Hrant, specially in Turkey socially towards the Armenians or will it be forgotten after few weeks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 I had the same feelings when I read it before your post. Do you think (expect) that something positive will come out of this tragic loss of Hrant, specially in Turkey socially towards the Armenians or will it be forgotten after few weeks? I think yalpa is in a better position to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 However if someday we had to go, then we would go like in 1915... like our ancestors... Without knowing where to go.... Walking on the roads they had walked.... Feeling their pain and agony... That's freaking symbolic, intellectuals were shot, killed right on the spot, they did not walk. Such was his fate. As I have indicated above, the Genocide never ended, it was just put aside, the murderous sword and the gun were never laid down. Robert Fisk: Award-winning writer shot by assassin in Istanbul street 20 January 2007 Hrant Dink became the 1,500,001st victim of the Armenian genocide yesterday. An educated and generous journalist and academic - editor of the weekly Turkish-Armenian newspaper Agos Yes, Hrant was the 1,500,001st victim. Go back up to the “Honor Roll” and see how many “Hrants”, Daniels, Zohrabs, Komitases , Siamantos and Sevaks…. and 400 others were put to the sword for doing exactly what Hrant was doing. None of the above were either advocating revolution nor sedition/secession. In fact all of the above were “loyal” citizens of the Ottoman Empire, many of which were elected or assigned officials. The Genocide never ended. It was just put on hold until another generation of Varuzhans and Zohrabs became literate and vocal enough to make their voices heard. And. …. Hrant was/is the reincarnation of Vadan Mamikonean who, also put his life in line knowing full well of the outcome. Maybe someday we will learn that some people don’t understand the language of prayer and supplication. Anyone know the song “Nnjetzeq Duk Andorr, Nahatak Yeghbayrner” /Rest in Peace all Ye Martyred Brothers“.? WE HEAR YOU HRANT! It has been said;You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Just like “You can’t make a civilized beast out of a Turk”. What would the world lose if there were not even one turk left? Hey Gamavor! Where are you? Telll us one more time what the "best Turk" is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 I had the same feelings when I read it before your post. Do you think (expect) that something positive will come out of this tragic loss of Hrant, specially in Turkey socially towards the Armenians or will it be forgotten after few weeks? I believe that others will follow in his footsteps and will see that true democracy will work its way into Turkey as well. But I doubt if it'll go far. Knowing what Turks and Turkey are likes; I really wonder and doubt it. As we all see it still today; yes, nothing has changed for Turks and Turkey alike; nothing, since the 1915 massacres and perpetrations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) I believe that others will follow in his footsteps and will see that true democracy will work its way into Turkey as well. . WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT "DEMOCRACY" IN TURKEY!!! Did we learn that word from GWB's "democracy in Baghdad"? May they all go HELLOCRACY! Let them f*rks worry about it. Has anyone noticed that "turk" is a four letter word and that it rhymes with that other four letter word? Our aim is that there be no Turkey, "democratic" or "f**kotratic". Who assigned us to teach them "democrcy". We are not even over the mission of teachng the world about "Chrsitianity". Edited January 21, 2007 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yalpa Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 I think yalpa is in a better position to answer. It is difficult to tell. There were many people on the first night, few hours after the shooting, and it looks like there will be many more on Tuesday. Hrant was a socialist, too; so many socialists and other types of left wing groups will be at his funeral (I will also be there, but not because he was a socialist). I have witnessed many assassinations in the last thirty years, but this one really hurt me: I am angry and I am feeling very pessimistic. There are people like me who are already positive towards Armenians and their struggle. I am sure the number of these people will increase after this terrible event, but they will still be a very small minority in this country. Hrant’s death will not be forgotten, but I am not sure much will change right a way, either. The Turkish state will still be the same Turkish state. The only thing that has been able to change the Turkish state lately has been the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Erdogan finally admitted that they are all responsible for his death. http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/stor...6361319,00.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Error 404 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Why I consider mutafyan a traitor? It is very simple. We had a conversation on this issue a while ago and I already have explained views. But I will explain my point of view one more time. I can't be in Mutafyans position. I am not the right person, no. BUT he is not the right person too. And if I can't do his job that doesn't mean I can't critisize him. If it is a general condition then noone in here should talk and critisize any prominent armenian. Just live with that. Live with that?... He should step back and someone like Hrant Dink should take his position. Or at least he shouldn't comment on any armenian issues like a traitor. But he still does... If someone is not fit for a job or a position, he shouldn't take the responsibility especially such responsibility as Patriarch of Armenian Patriarchate of Constantinople. It is hard position, but take it if you are sure you can carry it. I wish Hrant Dink was the patriarch or a patriot like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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