Assassination Of Hrant Dink

[Aratta-Kingdom]

TURKEY: THE SHOW CONTINUES

 

 

 

Armed man held after Turkish ferry hijack bid

 

 

 

 

 

Sat 27 Jan 2007

 

 

 

ISTANBUL, Jan 27 (Reuters) - A man armed with a handgun who said he belonged to a Turkish nationalist group surrendered to police on Saturday night after briefly seizing a ferry in the Dardanelles straits, CNN Turk television said.

 

The man, who threatened to blow up the ferry, seized the vessel on its way from Gelibolu on the European side of the strait to Lapseki on the Asian side, CNN Turk said.

 

The man shouted, "I did it for the homeland" after giving himself up to police.

 

Passengers reported that he had seized the ferry in protest at pro-Armenian sentiment in Turkey after the Jan. 19 killing of the Turkish-Armenian journalist Hrant Dink, which prompted large protests in favour of Armenians.

 

 

[Dave]

And the barbarous acts continue:

 

Attackers stone Turkish church

28 Jan 2007 15:32:31 GMT

Source: Reuters

 

STANBUL, Jan 28 (Reuters) - Unidentified attackers threw stones at a church in the northern Turkish town of Samsun on Sunday in the latest attack on Christians in predominantly Muslim Turkey, Anatolian news agency said.

 

Windows were broken but Mehmet Orhan Picakcilar, a priest at the Agape Church, was quoted as saying there were no casualties.

 

"This does damage to Turkey. This attack depicts Turkey in a bad way before international public opinion," Picakcilar said.

 

The attack happened hours after a nationalist protester with a handgun made a brief attempt to hijack a commuter ferry in the Dardanelles strait on Saturday.

 

Passengers said he had been angered by pro-Armenian sentiment in Turkey after the Jan. 19 killing of the Turkish-Armenian editor Hrant Dink, which prompted large pro-Armenian protests.

 

Growing nationalism among young people from Turkey's Black Sea towns has come under the spotlight since the teenager suspected of killing Dink and his alleged supporters were found to have come from the town of Trabzon.

 

A Catholic priest was killed in his church in Trabzon last February by a Turkish teenager. The killing was believed to have been part of protests in Islamic countries against cartoons in Danish newspapers that mocked Prophet Mohammad.

 

Christians in secular Turkey -- Armenians, Greeks, Syriacs, Catholics, some Evangelical denominations and Jehovah's Witnesses -- make up less than one percent of the country's 72 million people.

 

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L2838747.htm

Edited January 28, 2007 by Dave

[Arpa]

Yes, dear Armo,

My apologies for taking it slightly

When I say “slightly”, I mean both Gamavor’s comment and Ambassador Evans’ case have intimate plea with the broad picture.

First Amb. Evans. We have, at many occasions suggested that Hrant was the 1,500,001st victim of the Genocide. If you look above, scroll to page one you will see that I was the first, even before Mr. Fisk to suggest the premise.

Here is what I said in full on Jan. 19, post # 3 of this thread

 

Sad. Very sad!!

 

Աստուած Հոգին Լուսավորէ

 

If one were to look for the definition of MARTYR and a saint , look no further.

A martyr is one who puts one’s life knowingly and consciously in jeopardy.

I hope his remains will be taken to Yerevan and laid to rest at the Pantheon.

Just as his kin should get the hell out of that hellhole.

 

Dear Dave. At first glance I was disappointed as to why you chose to post this shockingly sad news under the topic of Genocide. On second thought. The Genocide has never stopped. Perhaps we should create a whole new category where we can celebrate his life and works. Or, in the least move this thread and the other to "Famous Armenians".

 

Those cowardly sonofabitches!

Coming back to Amb. Evans. Perhaps he also should be added to the roster of the victims of the Genocide. Both he and Hrant were assassinated, the latter brutally, and the former, no less brutally only if virtually. Amb. Evans should be elevated to the level of Amb. Morgenthau, and never abandoned. Perhaps he should be baptized as an Armenian as he showed more courage than many.

Now, to Gamavor’s comment. What was Hrant’s sin? When did Hrant utter any stronger words than so many other Turkish intellectuals and writers, and are still doing? Why none of those are assassinated but Hrant was? Yes Gams, he was assassinated in the most cowardly** manner simply because he was that “cursed” Armenian/Ermeni.

 

**Cowardly?

Yes cowardly!

Look at how that cowardly lakot executed his mission. He did not even have the courage to face his victim, he shot him from the back. Compare that to the act of that courageous hero Tehlirian, who tapped that monster Talaat on the shoulder, forced him to come face to face, and after uttering some choice words, shot him to make sure to see his “cowardly“ face as he went down. Cowardly? Yes, when he had fled the country and hidden in Berlin, the nest of his overlords.

That “lakot”, as reported a 17 year old boy. And now the system is trying to convince the world that it was an act of juvenile passion. Passion? What passion? Where did that “lakot” even learn to spell the word “Ermeni”? How many 17 year olds find time away from girls to even read the news? Who pumped so much poison and hatred in his heart and mind? And now, we read that a few other “extremist enemies of Turkland, trained at Chechen camps” have been arrested. Once again the wheels of diversion and denial are spinning. They may hang a few of them at central square, in full view of the world and close the books. Yes, close the books. Lest the trail go all the way to Ankara, lest the world learn where all that poison is coming from. Lest the world learn that it is not an isolated incident, but a national policy to continue the Genocide, only this time one “Hrant” at a time. To continue Talaat’s threat/promise that he will see to it that “only one Armenian be saved for the museums”.

When will we learn to not be deluded (that means flooded) in those crocodile tears that this “cowardly act is a stab in the side of that noble Turkish nation”, and that Ankara will get to the bottom of it. If we believe that then we must deserve everything that has befallen on us. Brings to mind the “reformations” promised by those furken Young Turks who blew dust in the eyes of Dashnaks, Hnchaks and Ramkavars.

Brings to mind the words of a dearly departed friend whose main message was; “Never trust the Turk who masquerades in (Europian) shirt and tie. They have never changed their instinct ‘of a wolf in sheep’s clothing’”.

If we, even for a moment belieive that Hrant's martyrdom will bring Ankara to its knees, look back at the other 1,500,000, unless, that is we have have enough iron rods to break those kneecaps. Where is the "Mafia/Cosa Nostra/ Our Thing“, մեր բանը, մեր խօսքը, մեր դատը?

 

Edited January 28, 2007 by Arpa

[yalpa]

From Turks? which turks? Do you realy think these people would come hrank funeral If Hrant died from a heart attack?

 

People are protesting assassination. They have not same idea with Hrant. It is assasination that reasoned sympaty and protests. do you realy think 100.000 people support Hrant ideas? (I should add, protest happened a work day, If It was not a work day, protesters would be much more.)

 

If Turks would know hrant, They will like it. That is true.(After all he was a patriot of Turkey too.) But they did not know him. No turks read agop.

 

dont missunderstood protests. It is anti-assasination protest, not pro-genocide protests.

 

 

 

He excatly dont get much support.(except some leftists and liberals) That is why I did not understand him.

 

Perhaps I do not count as a full Turk, although I am a Turkish citizen. However, my wife would count as one and we have been reading Agos for three years. You should also keep in mind that there are at least four Turks in Agos who write there regularly. So, some Turks read Agos.

 

Most of the protesters did agree with Hrant's ideas. Hrant also wrote in BuGün once a week and appeared in TV regularly. Even my stepfather, who lives in the States, knew about him and called me on the day he died and that was not because of me: He said he liked his ideas. Most of the protestors may not have agreed with Hrant on the subject of the Armenian Genocide, but they did agree with him about the situation of the Armenians in Turkey and why this should end. They did not gather there simply because he was assassinated. Among many things, it was also a protest to defend the rights of the Armenians in Turkey and the groups similar to them.

[yalpa]

Well, that is more agreeable. Not direct connection of deep state but indirect.

I agree. I said this before, we went too far at the nationalism. It is turning racism and fasism.

 

I do not agree that the killers were the ultra-nationalists. We should call them the nationalists. The term ultra-nationalists implies that the majority of the nationalists in Turkey are of the harmless kind, the moderate ones. I believe it is the opposite. Their ideas, the ideas of the ultra-nationalists, make up the majority nationalist opinion in Turkey. It is the moderate nationalists who make up the minority. So, we are really talking about the mainstream Turkish nationalism here. By the way, racism is nothing new in Turkish nationalism. It has always been racist.

[Hellektor]

With all due respects Kamo/Gamo.

How about Hovannes Evanian for president!!

We must tell him how much we love him, and show it.

Me?

What? Me worry?

http://www.leconcombre.com/alfred/img2/alfred_e_neuman_1.jpg

Evan also means John. So Hovannes Hovanessian is even better!

[Aratta-Kingdom]

 

Coming back to Amb. Evans. Perhaps he also should be added to the roster of the victims of the Genocide. Both he and Hrant were assassinated, the latter brutally, and the former, no less brutally only if virtually. Amb. Evans should be elevated to the level of Amb. Morgenthau, and never abandoned.

 

 

well said. he stood behind his word and he is 'A Man of Honor'

 

 

 

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=15166

 

JOHN EVANS: "MY STATEMENT ON ARMENIAN GENOCIDE WAS NOT A SLIP OF THE TONGUE"

 

PanARMENIAN.Net

10.01.2007 14:29 GMT+04:00

 

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ John Evans's, US previous ambassador to Armenia

statement on the Armenian Genocide 'was not a slip of the tongue',

stated John Evans himself in the interview to the Los Angeles

Times. "I knew it was not the policy of the United States to use

the word 'genocide'. But ninety years is a long time and at some

point you have to call a spade a spade," said John Evans. It is worth

mentioning that the diplomat departed from Armenian on September and

last month officially left the State Department. In his words, by

July 2005, it was absolutely clear that he would be forced out. It is

worth mentioning that during his meeting with San Francisco Armenian

Diaspora on February 19, 2005 John Evans said, "Today I'll call it

Armenian Genocide." Later, on February 28, 2005, speaking in US Embassy

to Armenia, Evans wanted to introduce clarity into his February 19

statement. "I used the word 'genocide', which reflects personally my,

John Evans's viewpoint, and not of a political figure." he said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

**Cowardly?

Yes cowardly!

Look at how that cowardly lakot executed his mission. He did not even have the courage to face his victim, he shot him from the back. Compare that to the act of that courageous hero Tehlirian, who tapped that monster Talaat on the shoulder, forced him to come face to face, and after uttering some choice words, shot him to make sure to see his “cowardly“ face as he went down. Cowardly? Yes, when he had fled the country and hidden in Berlin, the nest of his overlords.

That “lakot”, as reported a 17 year old boy. And now the system is trying to convince the world that it was an act of juvenile passion. Passion? What passion? Where did that “lakot” even learn to spell the word “Ermeni”? How many 17 year olds find time away from girls to even read the news? Who pumped so much poison and hatred in his heart and mind? And now, we read that a few other “extremist enemies of Turkland, trained at Chechen camps” have been arrested. Once again the wheels of diversion and denial are spinning. They may hang a few of them at central square, in full view of the world and close the books. Yes, close the books. Lest the trail go all the way to Ankara, lest the world learn where all that poison is coming from. Lest the world learn that it is not an isolated incident, but a national policy to continue the Genocide, only this time one “Hrant” at a time. To continue Talaat’s threat/promise that he will see to it that “only one Armenian be saved for the museums”.

When will we learn to not be deluded (that means flooded) in those crocodile tears that this “cowardly act is a stab in the side of that noble Turkish nation”, and that Ankara will get to the bottom of it. If we believe that then we must deserve everything that has befallen on us. Brings to mind the “reformations” promised by those furken Young Turks who blew dust in the eyes of Dashnaks, Hnchaks and Ramkavars.

Brings to mind the words of a dearly departed friend whose main message was; “Never trust the Turk who masquerades in (Europian) shirt and tie. They have never changed their instinct ‘of a wolf in sheep’s clothing’”.

If we, even for a moment belieive that Hrant's martyrdom will bring Ankara to its knees, look back at the other 1,500,000, unless, that is we have have enough iron rods to break those kneecaps. Where is the "Mafia/Cosa Nostra/ Our Thing“, մեր բանը, մեր խօսքը, մեր դատը?

 

 

 

i couldn't have said it better. matt jisht tegn es drel

Edited January 29, 2007 by ArmoArmeN

[Aratta-Kingdom]

 

 

 

As if the Dink's assassination wasn't enough, days after his funeral, the turkish government threatens the French and demands a right to create chaos in France. Dink was against the French law because he was a true beliver of the man's right to freely express his/her ideas. Free speech for the turkish government, on the other hand, means an opportunity to turn people against each other by their fabricated stories.

 

Free Speech on Trial.

The Value Conflict-The French Reality Vs The Turkish Reality: The [turkish] Article 301 creats chaos and poisons the minds of the people. The French law will prevent it from happening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Turkish Foreign Minister warns "France is following wrong path"

27.01.2007

 

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Meeting with his French counterpart in Paris on

Thursday, Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul expressed criticisms

and concerns about the French Parliament's passage of a bill last

October to penalize people who question the Armenian Genocide

claims. "France is following the wrong path in relations with Turkey,"

Gul told French Foreign Minister Douste-Blazy on the sidelines of the

International Donors Conference held in Paris. "The French

Parliament's passage of the Armenian bill was in nobody's interest,"

he said. Underlining the damage done to relations between Ankara and

Paris by the passage of the Armenian bill, Gul said, "Relations with

France could have been better." The New Anatolian reports.

 

On October of 2006 the French Parliament adopted a law on criminal

responsibility for denying the Armenian Genocide, which foresee 45 000

euros fine. The law must be approved by the Senate and the president

of the country.

Edited January 29, 2007 by ArmoArmeN

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Cyprus Mail, Cyprus

Jan 27 2007

 

 

IN MEMORY: HRANT DINK should be awarded every international accolade

possible for peace and co-operation. Not even all the Nobel Peace

Prizes in the world can bring this heroic Armenian journalist back to

life. What was this person's crime, simply stating the truth about

how Armenian people were massacred a century ago? It's not that he

wanted to live in the past - just that he wanted to live in the

future with dignity.

The youth who shot Hrant Dink still believes he is right, that's

perhaps the worst part of his hate crime, not realising his guilt. It

will haunt him for life - whether he likes it or not and whether he

recognises it or not. The same goes for Turkey in not recognising the

plight of the Armenian people. Maintaining blinkered vision will mean

paying a heavy price, not only in terms of the EU but the whole free

thinking democratic world. RiP...

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

AINA, CA

Assyrian International News Agency

Jan 27 2007

 

 

The Turkish State Continues Disseminating Hatred Against Non-Muslims

 

 

The Assyrian-Chaldean-Syriac Association has recently written about

the religiously based threats being continuously spread from the

Turkish state ministry responsible for religious affairs, the Diyanet

Isleri Baskanligi.

 

The European Parliament has demanded that Turkey stop these threats,

but the situation remains. On the contrary, the threats have

intensified.

 

As the whole world condemns the murder and mourns the death of

Armenian journalist Hrant Dink, and as tens of thousands of Muslims

participated in the mourning of Hrant Dink, the Turkish state

ministry mentioned above has published a statement on its home page.

 

The statement on the home page says that, from a religious point of

view, it's unacceptable for a Muslim to participate in religious

ceremonies of non-Muslims. It further states that Muslims are not

allowed to pray for blessing or salvation for the soul of a

non-Muslim.

 

The Mullah of Istanbul, who recently received the Pope and asked him

to turn to Mecca, "in the name of tolerance", did obviously not

bother himself to attend the funeral of Hrant Dink and show the same

kind of tolerance he asked from the Pope.

 

Turkey, an EU-candidate, continuous to spread hate propaganda against

non-Muslims, from highest authority, its own ministry of religious

issues, even after the murder of Hrant Dink.

 

Ahmed Hakan, a Turkish writer, recently turned against the Turkish

state in the leading news paper Hurriet, questioning the

discriminating message of the ministry of religious affairs.

 

This state sponsored, Turkish, religious hate propaganda against

non-Muslims must stop.

 

For how long will the EU and its member states turn a blind eye to

these barbaric acts?

 

Sweden, Södertälje 24 January 2007

 

ACSA Assyrian-Chaldean-Syriac Association

Özcan Kaldoyo

Jakob Rohyo

Olle Wiberg

 

EasternStar News Agency

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Roj TV, Brussels,

25 Jan 2007

 

Turkey: Kurdish TV notes efforts to give lighter sentences to Dink murderers

 

 

 

[Announcer-read report over video] Ogun Samast who assassinated Armenian

journalist and author Hrant Dink and the other suspects, Yasin Hayal, Ersin

Yolcu, Zeynel Abidin, Yavuz and Ahmet Iskender, were arrested and sent to

prison yesterday.

The suspects were found guilty of belonging to a criminal gang, of murder,

and of using an unlicensed weapon.

The prosecutor and the judge who decided on their arrest did not consider

the murder a terrorist act and they did not assess the suspects as members

of an armed terrorist organization.

In other words, the murder committed by Ogun Samast and by the other

suspects who encouraged him to carry it out is being considered as a simple

organized gang crime.

As a result, the prosecutor can ask for a lighter sentence. Furthermore, the

suspects will be tried in a regular criminal court, rather than in the

criminal courts that have replaced the State Security Courts and that have

special powers.

The suspects will also be able to benefit from the clause on effective

repentance.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Cyprus Mail, Cyprus

Jan 26 2007

 

Turkey is responsible for shameful murder

 

LAST WEEK'S murder of Armenian Turkish journalist Hrant Dink has cast

a shocking spotlight on the extreme nationalism that still pervades

Turkish society.

 

Political violence is of course not unique to Turkey. One only needs

to think of the assassinations of Pim Portuyn and Theo Van Gogh in

The Netherlands, one of Europe's most tolerant societies. Indeed, the

Turkish authorities would like us to believe that, as in those cases,

the killing of Hrant Dink was the work of a deranged individual.

 

But while the youth who pulled the trigger is certainly deranged,

Dink's murder did not come down from a clear blue sky. Last year, he

was prosecuted under Turkey's infamous Article 301, accused of

`insulting Turkishness'. Unlike other intellectuals against whom

charges were eventually dropped, including Nobel Prize winning

novelist Orhan Pamuk, Dink was convicted and given a six-month

suspended prison sentence.

 

Dink may not have gone to jail for his articles, but from the moment

procedures against him were decided, he became a marked man. In an

interview given two days before his murder, he said: `Sure, I am

[afraid]. To be honest, I feel haunted day in, day out. Ever seen a

pigeon? Seen how it keeps turning its head? It shudders at the

slightest noise, ready to fly away any instant. Can you call that

life? The difference is that I can't fly away like a pigeon.' Every

day, he would receive death threats, some over the phone, others by

email.

 

Turkey will argue that no one is being sent to jail for insulting

Turkishness, indeed that the vast majority of cases fail to reach a

conclusion. But what Dink's assassination shows is that anyone

charged under Article 301 is at best sentenced to a life of fear, at

worst, sentenced to death.

 

Can some good come from such a tragedy? Some have pointed to the

genuine revulsion across the political spectrum, to the thousands who

took to the streets carrying placards that read `We are all Hrant

Dink. We are all Armenians'. This is indeed remarkable, and shows

that Turkey has come a long way from the militarist nationalist

monolith of years past.

 

But what Turkey really needs to address is the pathological

nationalism that breeds the kind of hatred that drove a boy of 17 to

pull the trigger on a man he'd never met. That pathological

nationalism is nurtured by the state, by its worship of the founding

father, its obsession with the flag, its violent sensitivity to

anyone who insults the nation, as enshrined in Article 301.

One of the main duties of a state is to protect its citizens. The

Turkish state failed to protect Hrant Dink; worse, it marked him out

as prey to the prowling wolves.

[Aubépine]

I just recently returned, so I missed out on all the news reports and articles concerning Hrant Dink. I’m still trying to catch up.

 

I admit I didn’t know Hrant Dink very well. I saw him in a few TV discussions and programmes that’s about it. He seemed to me very misunderstood individual and quite emotional too. I never bought Agos until this week. And I’m looking forward to the commemorative issue, which came out yesterday. But I’m appalled by the insincere show of support and lamentations by Turks and Armenians, support which was denied to him in his most difficult hours. When he was charged with infringing Article 301, he only got a trickle of support by a handful or so Turkish intellectuals. It’s a shame and I don’t think this will lead to a watershed event. The only positive result will be that many more people will be emboldened to accept the Genocide without fearing the consequences anymore.

 

What struck me the most is how quickly they had unfurled a banner of Hrant hours after his assassination. Hrant Dink had a beautiful, expressive face. You could see it in his eyes; he was so full of life. Such a pity...

Edited January 29, 2007 by Aubépine

[Stormig]

I am talking about bolsohays. They are generally afraid from state(So they stay quite.) Dink was speaking about genocide. I thought, you said, Dinks killed, so no armenian in Turkey would speak about genocide.

Those few not so outspoken but with potential will only grow bolder, for it is evident that Dink touched hearts and it is not an altogether lost cause.

[Aubépine]

http://www.ikideli.com/images/hrantdink.jpg

 

This shoe is the thing that strangles my heart, that makes me a scattered mess...destititution and poverty is always hard to witness...especially when it goes hand in hand with death...all the tears one has saved throughout the day will be set free and flooded...

 

It will unleash my tears but I can't even begin to think what it will do to his girl who will look at this photograph for an entire lifetime...fathers are the love of a girl's life...no matter what kind of father he is...and if he is a father that makes one proud, she would never want his father to be hurt..she would want her father always to stand up straight...never for his hands to shake...The most painful moment in my life was not when my aunt died, but when I saw my father cry for the first time the day my aunt died..when my father resisted and resisted and when he broke down when I, at last, hugged him...when we were little and when our living standards were below the average, and when he would take us to dinner and provide us with whatever we wanted while he just ordered tea, I would feel storms shattering in me--I couldn't eat when he couldn't eat.

 

And when this was what it was, when I had suffered what I suffered the entire day a thousand fold when I saw this photograph, when I couldn't imagine what I would feel if a saw my father in this way...Delal Dink seeing this photograph, I can't imagine the moment she sees it, and I don't want to...everything aside, a father is laying on the ground, his shoes punctured with holes...for one's father to have holes in his shoes at times fills one with pride, especially a man like this, especially while there are those who speculated about his wealth when it suited them..but sometimes a daughter may see her father in her dreams for a lifetime, her father's shoes...a father who completed his life far too early, and when he died--forget completing his life comfortable and rich--completing his life with holes in his shoes...a father whose life was made into a prison, who dismissed his own life and worried about his family...a father who, loving his homeland to the extent of consciously seeing that it could cost his family's life, was declared a traitor...became a fearful pigeon...a father of such scale that one cannot imagine the way he kisses his children..his wife...

 

I hope Delal doesn't see this picture...but if she does, she should not weep...in this country sometimes fathers die with holes in their shoes, they will complete a lifetime with holes in their shoes but their hearts and minds will not bear the tiniest scratch...in this country most eyes won't see the burning hearts, won't hear a mother's, tomorrow, a son's scream...and those fathers with holes in their shoes will spend their entire lifetime trying to open those un-seeing eyes and un-hearing ears...those fathers will not leave bank accounts as their finest inheritance but their honor.

 

 

 

Beni tarumar eden şeydir bu ayakkabı.. Yoksulluk her zaman acıdır.. Yoksulluk her zaman iç acıtır.. Hele ki ölümle birleşmişse... İnsanın gün içinde biriktirdiği tüm gözyaşlarını koyverir gider...

 

Benim gözyaşlarımı koyverir de ya bu fotoğrafa bir ömür bakacak olan kızını ne hale getirir düşünemiyorum bile... Babalar kızlarının en büyük sevgilisidir.. Nasıl bir baba olursa olsun.. Kaldıki gurur duyulan bir babaysa eğer, hiç incinmesin ister kız çocuğu babasının.. İster ki babası hep dimdik dursun.. Hiç titremesin elleri.. Hayatımın en büyük acısını halam öldüğünde değil, halamın öldüğü gün ilk defa babamı ağlarken gördüğümde yaşamıştım.. Babamın direnip direnip en son ben ona sarıldığımda hıçkıra hıçkıra ağladığına tanık olduğumda.. Babam biz küçükken ve maddi durumumuz ortalamanın altındayken bizi yemeğe götürüp, istediğimizi yememizi sağlayıp kendisi sadece sadece çay söylerken içimde koptu fırtınalar, yiyemedim o yemediğinde..

 

Hal böyleyken, ben Hrant Dink'in bu fotoğrafında tüm gün yaşadığım üzüntünün bin beterini yaşamışken, ben asla tahayyül edemezken babamı böyle görüp de nasıl davranacağımı.. Delal Dink'in bu fotoğrafı gördüğünü , gördüğü anı da asla tahayyül edemiyorum, etmek istemiyorum.. Herşey bir yana bir baba yerde yatıyor, babanın ayakkabısı delik... Babanın ayakkabısının delik olması kimi zaman gurur vericidir, hele ki böyle bir kişiysen, hele ki işine geldiği gibi atıp tutanlar maddi durumla iligili de atıp tutmuşken.. Ama bir kız çocuğu bazen bir ömür rüyalarında görür babayı, babasının ayakkabısını.. Bir ömrü çok erken tamamlamış bir baba ve öldüğünde bırak hayatını rahat ve zengin tamamlamayı, ayakkabısı delik... Bir baba ki ömrü zindan haline getirilmiş zaten, kendi hayatından geçmiş sevdiklerinin hayatının tasasını tutmuş.. Bir baba ki, hayatına hatta ailesinin hayatına mal olabileceğini göre göre kalacak kadar severken vatanını, vatan haini ilan edilmiş.. Ürkek bir güvercin olmuş.. Bir baba ki kimbilir nasıl öper koklardı çocuklarını.. Karısını..

 

Umarım bu fotoğrafı görmezsin Delal kız. Ama oldu ki gördün yine de için sızlamasın.. Bu ülkede bazı babalar ayakkabıları delik ölür bazen, bir ömrü delik ayakkabılarla tamamlar da yürekleri, beyinleri en ufak bir çizik barındırmaz... Bu ülkede yanan ciğerleri görmez çoğu gözler, bir ananın, yarin, evladın çığılığını duymaz.. İşte o ayakkabısı delik babalar ömürlerini koyarlar o görmeyen gözleri, duymayan kulakları açmak uğruna.. O babalar en güzel mirası onurlarını bırakırlar banka hesapları yerine.

 

Sen ağla, ağla ama asla yıkılma Delal kız... Bu babanın kızına dik durmak yaraşır...

Edited January 29, 2007 by Aubépine

[Stormig]

What struck me the most is how quickly they had unfurled a banner of Hrant hours after his assassination. Hrant Dink hads a beautiful, expressive face. You could see it in his eyes; he was so full of life. Such a pity...

I have likewise asked similar questions at times. It had also struck me odd how demonstrators were burning huge banners of Elif Safak as she left the court-house. You can see they're the types that can't afford underwear, yet they were burning banners of good quality print.

[Johannes]

Yes, dear Armo,

My apologies for taking it slightly

When I say "slightly", I mean both Gamavor's comment and Ambassador Evans' case have intimate plea with the broad picture.

First Amb. Evans. We have, at many occasions suggested that Hrant was the 1,500,001st victim of the Genocide. If you look above, scroll to page one you will see that I was the first, even before Mr. Fisk to suggest the premise.

Here is what I said in full on Jan. 19, post # 3 of this thread

 

 

Coming back to Amb. Evans. Perhaps he also should be added to the roster of the victims of the Genocide. Both he and Hrant were assassinated, the latter brutally, and the former, no less brutally only if virtually. Amb. Evans should be elevated to the level of Amb. Morgenthau, and never abandoned. Perhaps he should be baptized as an Armenian as he showed more courage than many.

Now, to Gamavor's comment. What was Hrant's sin? When did Hrant utter any stronger words than so many other Turkish intellectuals and writers, and are still doing? Why none of those are assassinated but Hrant was? Yes Gams, he was assassinated in the most cowardly** manner simply because he was that "cursed" Armenian/Ermeni.

 

**Cowardly?

Yes cowardly!

Look at how that cowardly lakot executed his mission. He did not even have the courage to face his victim, he shot him from the back. Compare that to the act of that courageous hero Tehlirian, who tapped that monster Talaat on the shoulder, forced him to come face to face, and after uttering some choice words, shot him to make sure to see his "cowardly" face as he went down. Cowardly? Yes, when he had fled the country and hidden in Berlin, the nest of his overlords.

That "lakot", as reported a 17 year old boy. And now the system is trying to convince the world that it was an act of juvenile passion. Passion? What passion? Where did that "lakot" even learn to spell the word "Ermeni"? How many 17 year olds find time away from girls to even read the news? Who pumped so much poison and hatred in his heart and mind? And now, we read that a few other "extremist enemies of Turkland, trained at Chechen camps" have been arrested. Once again the wheels of diversion and denial are spinning. They may hang a few of them at central square, in full view of the world and close the books. Yes, close the books. Lest the trail go all the way to Ankara, lest the world learn where all that poison is coming from. Lest the world learn that it is not an isolated incident, but a national policy to continue the Genocide, only this time one "Hrant" at a time. To continue Talaat's threat/promise that he will see to it that "only one Armenian be saved for the museums".

When will we learn to not be deluded (that means flooded) in those crocodile tears that this "cowardly act is a stab in the side of that noble Turkish nation", and that Ankara will get to the bottom of it. If we believe that then we must deserve everything that has befallen on us. Brings to mind the "reformations" promised by those furken Young Turks who blew dust in the eyes of Dashnaks, Hnchaks and Ramkavars.

Brings to mind the words of a dearly departed friend whose main message was; "Never trust the Turk who masquerades in (Europian) shirt and tie. They have never changed their instinct 'of a wolf in sheep's clothing'".

If we, even for a moment belieive that Hrant's martyrdom will bring Ankara to its knees, look back at the other 1,500,000, unless, that is we have have enough iron rods to break those kneecaps. Where is the "Mafia/Cosa Nostra/ Our Thing", մեր բանը, մեր խօսքը, մեր դատը?

 

Կը ներէք, չեմ կրնար անգլերէնով յայտուիլ լաւապէս:

 

Ինչու Հրանդ Մալաթիոյ մէջ չէր բնակէր: Որովհետեւ կարելի չէ որպէս հայ ապրիլ այդ վայրերը: Հանրապետական թուրքիոյ ժամանակ բազում հայեր, որոնք թաքնուած էին Ցեղասպանութեւն տարիներուն, վերադարձան, սակայն չ'կարողացան գոյակցիլ թուրք-քուրդ ջարդարարներու հետ:

 

Որպէս բարեգութ արեւմտահայ, շուտով սիրտերնիս փափուկցաւ, կակուղցաւ:

 

Այդ յուղարկաւոր թափորը, ձախակողմեան եւ ազատամիտ թուրք եւ մանաւանդ քուրդ, քաղաքացիներէ կազմեալ է:

 

Անոնցմէ շատերուն մեծ մայրիկները առեւանգեալ եւ բռնաբարեալ որբացած հայ աղջիկներ են: Այսպիսի նիւթերով լեցուն էր Ակոսը, եւ մարդիկ որոնք տասնեակ տարիներ լուռ էին, սկսան արտայայտուիլ, թէ՝ մեր ալ տատիկը հայ էր:

 

Ես իմ անունովս խօսիմ. կրնան ըլլալ, որ կարգ մը հայեր երկու անոյշ խօսքով թոյլնան եւ ասեն «հա կը բաւէ հաշտուինք թուրքերու հետ, գոնէ Հայաստանի սիրոյն»:

 

Ես կ'ասեմ. նոյնիսկ եթէ թուրք ժողովուրդը հրաշքով մէյ մէկ քրիստոսներ կամ սուրբեր դառնան, անոնց քանակը 73 միլիոն (միայն հանրապետութեան մէջ), բաւարար է, որ զիրենք նկատեն սպառնալիք, տարածքի մէջ մեր ժողովրդագրութեան Demographic existence:

 

Նոյնիսկ եթէ թուրք-քուրդը եւրոպացի դառնայ (ինչ կը նշանակէ եւրոպացի ըլլալ, միթէ կոտոշաւո՞ր ըլլալ) մի ահաւոր իրականութիւն կայ որ մոռնալու կ'ուտանք, այդ մեր հայրենիքն:

 

Որեւէ պատուախնդիր մարդ, երբ իր հայրենիքը բռնագրաւման ենթակայ է, ան կռիւի մէջ է, պատերազմի մէջ է իր հողին վրայ ապրողներուն դէմ:

 

Բռնագրաւողներուն դէմ մեր կռիւը, արդարացի է:

 

Հիմա մենք ազգովին պէտք է նստինք եւ որոշենք, արեւմտեան կողմը՝ մեր հայերենիքին, բռնագրաւուած Հայաստան է թէ չէ: Եթէ ոչ ուրեմն երկու անոյշ խօսք փոխանակենք, թուրքին հետ եւ վէր'ացնենք խնդիրը: Իսկ եթէ այդ հողը Հայաստան է, ուրեմն բոլոր չափանիշներով, միջազգային օրէնքով(հայաստանցիները «նորմ»եր կըսէն) այդ հողի վրայ ապրողը սպաննել իսկ մեր արդար իրաւունք է:

 

Այժմ այդ տեղ Հրանդի գերդաստանը, մեր, ձեր գերդաստանները պէտք էր, որ ապրէին:

 

Հրանդ սպաննուեցաւ, որովհետեւ ըսաւ՝ ԵՍ ՀԱՅ ԵՄ:

 

թուրքիոյ մէջ չես կրնար «թուրք եմ»-էն զատ ուրիշ բան ըսել:

 

Այս տողերս կը նուիրեմ՝ բոլոր թուրքասէր հայերին

 

[/size]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[yalpa]

http://www.ikideli.com/images/hrantdink.jpg

 

This shoe is the thing that strangles my heart, that makes me a scattered mess...destititution and poverty is always hard to witness...especially when it goes hand in hand with death...all the tears one has saved throughout the day will be set free and flooded...

 

It will unleash my tears but I can't even begin to think what it will do to his girl who will look at this photograph for an entire lifetime...fathers are the love of a girl's life...no matter what kind of father he is...and if he is a father that makes one proud, she would never want his father to be hurt..she would want her father always to stand up straight...never for his hands to shake...The most painful moment in my life was not when my aunt died, but when I saw my father cry for the first time the day my aunt died..when my father resisted and resisted and when he broke down when I, at last, hugged him...when we were little and when our living standards were below the average, and when he would take us to dinner and provide us with whatever we wanted while he just ordered tea, I would feel storms shattering in me--I couldn't eat when he couldn't eat.

 

And when this was what it was, when I had suffered what I suffered the entire day a thousand fold when I saw this photograph, when I couldn't imagine what I would feel if a saw my father in this way...Delal Dink seeing this photograph, I can't imagine the moment she sees it, and I don't want to...everything aside, a father is laying on the ground, his shoes punctured with holes...for one's father to have holes in his shoes at times fills one with pride, especially a man like this, especially while there are those who speculated about his wealth when it suited them..but sometimes a daughter may see her father in her dreams for a lifetime, her father's shoes...a father who completed his life far too early, and when he died--forget completing his life comfortable and rich--completing his life with holes in his shoes...a father whose life was made into a prison, who dismissed his own life and worried about his family...a father who, loving his homeland to the extent of consciously seeing that it could cost his family's life, was declared a traitor...became a fearful pigeon...a father of such scale that one cannot imagine the way he kisses his children..his wife...

 

I hope Delal doesn't see this picture...but if she does, she should not weep...in this country sometimes fathers die with holes in their shoes, they will complete a lifetime with holes in their shoes but their hearts and minds will not bear the tiniest scratch...in this country most eyes won't see the burning hearts, won't hear a mother's, tomorrow, a son's scream...and those fathers with holes in their shoes will spend their entire lifetime trying to open those un-seeing eyes and un-hearing ears...those fathers will not leave bank accounts as their finest inheritance but their honor.

Beni tarumar eden şeydir bu ayakkabı.. Yoksulluk her zaman acıdır.. Yoksulluk her zaman iç acıtır.. Hele ki ölümle birleşmişse... İnsanın gün içinde biriktirdiği tüm gözyaşlarını koyverir gider...

 

Benim gözyaşlarımı koyverir de ya bu fotoğrafa bir ömür bakacak olan kızını ne hale getirir düşünemiyorum bile... Babalar kızlarının en büyük sevgilisidir.. Nasıl bir baba olursa olsun.. Kaldıki gurur duyulan bir babaysa eğer, hiç incinmesin ister kız çocuğu babasının.. İster ki babası hep dimdik dursun.. Hiç titremesin elleri.. Hayatımın en büyük acısını halam öldüğünde değil, halamın öldüğü gün ilk defa babamı ağlarken gördüğümde yaşamıştım.. Babamın direnip direnip en son ben ona sarıldığımda hıçkıra hıçkıra ağladığına tanık olduğumda.. Babam biz küçükken ve maddi durumumuz ortalamanın altındayken bizi yemeğe götürüp, istediğimizi yememizi sağlayıp kendisi sadece sadece çay söylerken içimde koptu fırtınalar, yiyemedim o yemediğinde..

 

Hal böyleyken, ben Hrant Dink'in bu fotoğrafında tüm gün yaşadığım üzüntünün bin beterini yaşamışken, ben asla tahayyül edemezken babamı böyle görüp de nasıl davranacağımı.. Delal Dink'in bu fotoğrafı gördüğünü , gördüğü anı da asla tahayyül edemiyorum, etmek istemiyorum.. Herşey bir yana bir baba yerde yatıyor, babanın ayakkabısı delik... Babanın ayakkabısının delik olması kimi zaman gurur vericidir, hele ki böyle bir kişiysen, hele ki işine geldiği gibi atıp tutanlar maddi durumla iligili de atıp tutmuşken.. Ama bir kız çocuğu bazen bir ömür rüyalarında görür babayı, babasının ayakkabısını.. Bir ömrü çok erken tamamlamış bir baba ve öldüğünde bırak hayatını rahat ve zengin tamamlamayı, ayakkabısı delik... Bir baba ki ömrü zindan haline getirilmiş zaten, kendi hayatından geçmiş sevdiklerinin hayatının tasasını tutmuş.. Bir baba ki, hayatına hatta ailesinin hayatına mal olabileceğini göre göre kalacak kadar severken vatanını, vatan haini ilan edilmiş.. Ürkek bir güvercin olmuş.. Bir baba ki kimbilir nasıl öper koklardı çocuklarını.. Karısını..

 

Umarım bu fotoğrafı görmezsin Delal kız. Ama oldu ki gördün yine de için sızlamasın.. Bu ülkede bazı babalar ayakkabıları delik ölür bazen, bir ömrü delik ayakkabılarla tamamlar da yürekleri, beyinleri en ufak bir çizik barındırmaz... Bu ülkede yanan ciğerleri görmez çoğu gözler, bir ananın, yarin, evladın çığılığını duymaz.. İşte o ayakkabısı delik babalar ömürlerini koyarlar o görmeyen gözleri, duymayan kulakları açmak uğruna.. O babalar en güzel mirası onurlarını bırakırlar banka hesapları yerine.

 

Sen ağla, ağla ama asla yıkılma Delal kız... Bu babanın kızına dik durmak yaraşır...

 

I am sure Delal Dink saw this picture. Everyone saw this picture. What bothers me is that so many people concentrated on how one of his shoes had a hole and therefore how poor Hrant was. Why? First of all, he was not poor. Not rich, either. He was just a guy who was too lazy to deal with his shoes. I have a pair that has a whole and my wife has been telling me for a year now to buy a new pair. Some people are like that. Why do we have to transform this very brave person into something else in order to feel sorry for him, in order to feel empathy to him? The hole we have to concentrate on is the one he had in his heart, how sad and lonely he felt in his struggle and while living in this country. Shoes? That just shows he did not care about them.

[iminhokis]

Imminhokis; one more thing. The churches that you leave behind from Bolis are not important. Your Armenia where your land is today is important. What you can do for your country and for the good of your people by building new and better structures, cities and having them thrive is important.

 

Now it's true that most of us unfortunately are in the Diaspora; but even from the Diaspora we can support, monetarily or otherwise, sometimes educate, visit and by thinking and working patriotically to and for Armenia to thrive are very positive acts and a must on our part. And perhaps some of us in the future we will think to relocate ourselves to the final place which is our real homeland; our ARMENIA.

 

 

I agre with you, but this has nothing to do with the question of weather Armenians living in Turkey "should" leave or not !!! this " moral obligation" and responsibility lies with all Armenians around the world, no matter where their roots are.

 

There are as many "Hayastan-Armenians" who travel to Turkey for vacation, as there are "Turkey-Armenians" living outside who fly back for vacation. (I can't tell my anger when I saw all these publicity for Holidays in Turkey when I was in Armenia last summer!). 2 Yerevanzi's living here in Switzerland who will both get married this year, plan their honey moon in Turkey! There was no Bolsahay here who was not -badly- surprised. But this again is another topic!

 

 

I saw that there were diffrent replies to my post, I will try to give my feedback on the diffrent comments:

 

 

I am traveling to Armenia regularly and spend a lot of time there.

We even seriously thought about living there.

 

But it was more the idea of a "dream come true" which I wanted to keep on.

The truth is, that I will do my best to support Armenia and love it as "our country; but it is definitely not were I belong to, and I will definitely not move to Armenia for good- and this has nothing to do with the economic situation.

 

Would you discuss this with me if there was no Genocide?

 

 

I am not going to live in Istanbul either, but this is simply because I cannot stand the political situation.

 

However, and I can only repeat it, I highly appreciate and offer my deepest respect to all those who stay there were they have been for more than 3000 years. There is NO reason, they SHOULD BE ASKED TO LEAVE their land, weather it is called Armenia or not.

 

Hrant Dink has seen Armenia and he stand for what he thought was right. (I don't agree on all of his opinionans but this is not the question).

 

If he was "forced" to leave his roots and go to Armenia, he would have felt deported. That's finaly what he said, because he simply wanted to stay where his roots lied and where he belonged to!

 

 

It took me some years and lot of traveling, lot of experience in political activates to understand this, as I used to talk like you before. The very first experiences I had in Armenia were very surprising to me, as at that time, I was defending the same "opinion" that you seem to have. I then met for the first time with one of my grand fathers cousins' son (already before the genocide this part of the family always used to live in the region of Yerevan while my grand fathers roots were in Istanbul), He asked me about all the members of his family still living there. I told him that "fortunately" most of them have left the country and to my surprise he was very disappointed! He said "that's very sad. I can understand all those who leave for economical reasons, but I am an old man, I know that there is nothing worse than to leave the land of your roots."

 

I was still very naive and convinced that one day I would move to Armenia too, and said "but don't you think maybe one day lot of them will come to live in Armenia, as they used to dream about?"

 

The old man responded: "I love this land, its where MY roots lie. I would be more than proud if Armenians like you come to become "Armenian Citizens" rather than to be "an Armenian of the Diaspora" which is meant to die one day. I wish you could see the Ararat in real instead of having it in a frame hanging in your living room. But when you become old like me you will know that nothing can replace the land of your roots. By leaving Turkey, Armenians leave theses roots behind them for ever and one day they will be forgotten. when this happens, an important part of the Armenian Identity will die too."

 

This is just a part of what I remember out of his words, but I know that at that time, I did not want to REALLY understand his words nor did I want to accept or understand the surprising "positive" comments I have heard from diffrent people in Armenia. I thought this was to be excused by economical advantages and the idea of "a better life- outside armenian, NO MATTER where.)

 

After my experiences (especially in Lebanon) and other communities, I realized that they (the Armenians from Turkey as well as those living in today's Armenia and who never left Armenia) are all much more peaceful in their soul than the rest of the Diaspora. They struggle for their future, and for "justice" and the memory of our past (each community in his own way), but they are free of complexes, predictions and judgments which fill the hearts of most of the Diaspora. They did not have these complexes of "prooving their armenian identity" as we can observe all over the armenian communities world wide.

 

It is true, that in Turkey there are more and more "assimilations", which is VERY sad.

But that's just as everywhere in the Diaspora a piece of reality, which not only Armenians are asked to face.

 

But I have not seen any other community (IN EUROPE) which still LIVES the armenian culture, at least as much as they do in ISTANBUL!

 

Facing the reality of what remains of armenian communites in Europe, I envy those armenians, who manage to live in Turkey but who under the given circumstances still manage to SIMPLY LIVE their culture!

 

 

They live on the land of their roots, no matter what politics wanted or wants them to do.

And there is no Turk and no Armenian who should try to take them this right.

 

I agree that we (the diaspora) has the responsibility to stand for the armenian case in a rather aggresive way, and i understand that this is causing even more "trouble" for the armenians living in Turkey. I know we cannot "help" them, its something we have to go through. and therefore, I admire them even more! Cause they are alone, but they resist and they rarely complain, they try to live their lives, on the land of their roots...and trying to keep their armenian idenity as much as possible.

 

It has nothing to do with weather we have to support Armenia or not.

 

 

And by the way, although I still have family in Turkey, I am not a "real" bolsahay.

And although my own family over there, does not like my political activities for the Armenian case, they accept and respect my choice, just as I accept and respect theirs. They know that we all have our own "responsibilities".

 

 

Anyways, I don't think that this discussion will change anything, as at the time, there was no one who could change my own opinion either It took me years of reflection and experience to be able to "accept and respect" this myself. (btw, you don't have to accept it to respect it. that's the minimum we owe each other among Armenians.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zurderer]

Yes we have our share of nationalists as well, but they are in the minority.

 

Yeah, Our nationalist are also minority. This is a good excuse. Every nation and man use this. "We have nationalist but they are minority."

 

Infact I think, armenians are more nationalist than turks.

 

Perhaps I do not count as a full Turk, although I am a Turkish citizen.

 

I dont know realy. It should be you who decide who you are.

 

Most of the protestors may not have agreed with Hrant on the subject of the Armenian Genocide, but they did agree with him about the situation of the Armenians in Turkey and why this should end.

 

Bolsohays are another story. I agree, there is more sympaty for bolsohays.(Just more sympaty, not much sympaty. I am not sure who hate bolsohays more, we or armenians.)

 

They did not gather there simply because he was assassinated.

 

Sure there are other reasons too but I still insisted If Dink died from heart attack, we wont meet even 10.000 people.

 

I do not agree that the killers were the ultra-nationalists. We should call them the nationalists. The term ultra-nationalists implies that the majority of the nationalists in Turkey are of the harmless kind, the moderate ones.

 

Every nationalist may become harmful(That is related with nationalism, not ultra nationalism, we can easly say there is not peaciful nationalism.) but It is different to actively seeking people to kill. Ultra nationalist do this.

 

In Turkey, People are not actively attacking other people. They attack other people when they are attacked.

 

 

By the way, racism is nothing new in Turkish nationalism. It has always been racist.

 

Now you are totally wrong. Turkey is far from becoming racist(It was never become racist) or we wont choose kurdish people as PM. Even now, some of our ministers are kurds. It is not a racist fanatism in Turkey.

 

If someone say, I am turk. People are ready to accept him. Race is not issue, nation is.

 

Those few not so outspoken but with potential will only grow bolder, for it is evident that Dink touched hearts and it is not an altogether lost cause.

 

Becoming bold is absolutely related with Turkish people. If Turkish people support their boldness, they will become bolder.(At Dink funeral, They supported it.)

 

But I am not sure becoming bold is realy best idea.

 

[zurderer]

And perhaps some of us in the future we will think to relocate ourselves to the final place which is our real homeland; our ARMENIA.

 

why? Bolsohays lived at istanbul much before turks. So I think bolsohays land is istanbul, their ancestoral land is also istanbul. why their church at istanbul is less precious than ROA?

 

Because ROA is under armenian rule?

 

It is weird. For exp, Bulgarian turks dont want to leave their lands, ahıska turks are ready to return their land(Even It means extra sufference). It is weird armenians forsake their lands so easily even ROA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Johannes]

Թուրքերուն հետ մեր հողերու, մեր զոհերու, մեր կողոպտուած հարստութեանց եւ Հայաստանի ապահովութեան մասին կարելի խօսիլ:

թուրքերու հետ զրուցելու համար պէտք է լաւ ճանչնանք մեր հայրենիքը:

 

Մինչեւ այսօր բազում թուրքեր (մեծամասնութիւնը) մեր 1,5 միլիոն զոհերը, հայրենիքի կորուստը, մշակոյթի կորուստը, հայ ժողովուրդի մնացորդի գաղթը կը բաղդատեն այդ 30 թէ 40 սպաննուած դեսպաններու հետ:

 

Այս է իրենց տրամաբանութիւնը 1,5 միլիոն հայ = 40 թուրք դեսպանի

 

Աւելի լաւ է չ'խօսիլ անոնց հետ (ինձ համար):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2007 by Johannes

[Arpa]

Թուրքերուն հետ մեր հողերու, մեր զոհերու, մեր կողոպտուած հարստութեանց եւ Հայաստանի ապահովութեան մասին կարելի խօսիլ:

թուրքերու հետ զրուցելու համար պէտք է լաւ ճանչնանք մեր հայրենիքը:

 

Մինչեւ այսօր բազում թուրքեր (մեծամասնութիւնը) մեր 1,5 միլիոն զոհերը, հայրենիքի կորուստը, մշակոյթի կորուստը, հայ ժողովուրդի մնացորդի գաղթը կը բաղդատեն այդ 30 թէ 40 սպաննուած դեսպաններու հետ:

 

Այս է իրենց տրամաբանութիւնը 1,5 միլիոն հայ = 40 թուրք դեսպանի

 

Աւելի լաւ է չ'խօսիլ անոնց հետ (ինձ համար):

Շատ լաւ ասիր.

Ճիշտ այտ պատճառավ է որ ես որեւէ Թուրքի հետ լուրջ երկբառի չեմ մասնակցիր: Այլ միայն ծաղրանք: Ծաղրանք? Քանի անոնք ծաղրանք են: Երեւի վերջերս մի նոր խաղ են սովորել: Այսինքն, բառախաղ: Թէ արդիոք այդ իրապէս Կէնոսիդ եր թէ ոչ: Թէ քանի հոգի պիտի սպաննուի սա արդարացնելու: Թէ արդիոք 1,5000,4999 բավարար է կամ պիտի անպայման լինի 1,5000,5000: Այնքան ատեն որ նրանց նպատակը խեղկատակ եւ բառախաղ է, քան թէ այր մարդու պէս, ոչ ամճըխ, նստել եւ խոսակցել, թող իրենք դժոխք գնան, մենք պիտի յետգրավենք մեր դրախդը:

Hey Zurd-kaka and company, if you want to know what is said above then learn that mother of all languages, Armenian, unlike your non-existent furken furkish. You may ask as to how I understand your furken language. 70% of it is Arabic/Persian, 25% is Latin and the remaining 5 % may be Altaic. Is that where "ata" comes from? Like At-boku?

Edited January 29, 2007 by Arpa

[Aratta-Kingdom]

 

the turks are desperate to have a Trojan Horse at HyeForum. the online TH who will gain the trust of the armenians, will make an entry to the hearts and the mind of the people by talking about very sensitive issues. the tragic death of Hrant Dink is only a tool used by the turks to level with those who condemn the assassination...

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Yeah, Our nationalist are also minority. This is a good excuse. Every nation and man use this. "We have nationalist but they are minority."

 

 

turkey is a country where the nationalist massacre millions of innocent people who don't belong to their race. turkey is a country where the children before the school day are forced to denounce the presence of the race in the country. turks are the only people who are accused of committing muitiple genocide.

 

 

 

 

 

Infact I think, armenians are more nationalist than turks.

 

 

 

who cares what you think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont know realy. It should be you who decide who you are.

 

 

you are not granted a right to say what we sould and souldn't be thinking about

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bolsohays are another story. I agree, there is more sympaty for bolsohays.(Just more sympaty, not much sympaty. I am not sure who hate bolsohays more, we or armenians.)

 

 

if you are not sure of something, don't say anything at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure there are other reasons too but I still insisted If Dink died from heart attack, we wont meet even 10.000 people.

 

 

you again talk for the others. do you honestly belive that others are stupid and you must make a desicion for them?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every nationalist may become harmful(That is related with nationalism, not ultra nationalism, we can easly say there is not peaciful nationalism.) but It is different to actively seeking people to kill. Ultra nationalist do this.

 

 

in a deep state nationalism and ultra nationalism stand on the same ground.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In Turkey, People are not actively attacking other people. They attack other people when they are attacked.

 

 

so you are accusing Hrant Dink of attacking the turks. what do you have to say about the istambul pogroms?

do you have any way of justifying what talaat said to Ambassador Morgenthau?

 

 

"It is no use for you to argue." Talaat answered, "we have already disposed of three quarters of the Armenians; there are none at all left in Bitlis, Van, and Erzeroum. The hatred between the Turks and the Armenians is now so intense that we have got to finish with them. If we don't, they will plan their revenge."

 

The Murder of A Nation(66-67) by Henry Morgenthau U.S. Ambassador to Turkey

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now you are totally wrong. Turkey is far from becoming racist(It was never become racist) or we wont choose kurdish people as PM. Even now, some of our ministers are kurds. It is not a racist fanatism in Turkey.

 

 

your words have no weight in it. the turks have claimed the bastard who gave a gun to the Dink's assassin was armenian. you even claimed Mutafyan is a turk. after massacring thousands of kurds you now claim you are a peace loving people?

 

 

 

 

 

 

If someone say, I am turk. People are ready to accept him. Race is not issue, nation is.

 

 

Dink faces additional charges for making critical comments at a 2002 human rights conference about Turkey's national anthem and a daily oath taken by Turkish schoolchildren in which they say, "Happy is the one who says, 'I am a Turk.' " Dink said then that he did not feel like a Turk, but like an Armenian who is a citizen of Turkey. He will appear in court in February for those remarks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Becoming bold is absolutely related with Turkish people. If Turkish people support their boldness, they will become bolder.(At Dink funeral, They supported it.)

 

 

turkey is a big ghetto where there is not much progress. turkish people are brainwashed by their own government. anyone in turkey who dares to speak against the official government policies, is assassinated just like Hrant Dink.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I am not sure becoming bold is realy best idea.

 

 

you again speak about something that you are not sure of.