Yervant1 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I am talking about bolsohays. They are generally afraid from state(So they stay quite.) Dink was speaking about genocide. I thought, you said, Dinks killed, so no armenian in Turkey would speak about genocide. Why don't you read my posts carefully I said Hrant was getting lots of support from Turks. Hrant was getting lots of support from Turks and the State is worried from things happening inside Turkey not outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/editor...ines-editorials A Death In Istanbul Hartford Courant January 26, 2007 Free speech is a concept Americans take for granted, but it is a precious commodity in many parts of the world. That sad fact has been demonstrated once again by the murder of Hrant Dink, a Turkish-Armenian journalist whose "crime" was to stand by his beliefs. Mr. Dink was a staunch defender of free speech. He had been prosecuted, like so many others before him, for "insulting Turkishness" by speaking out against a law, Article 301 of the Turkish penal code, often used to stifle free expression. Mr. Dink, 52, who was editor of Agos, an Armenian-language newspaper, had been criticized for his views on the massacre of 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turks during World War I. He worked for human rights and for reconciliation between Christian Armenians and Turkish Muslims. He was the 19th Turkish journalist in the past 15 years to be killed because of his work, according to the Committee to Protect Journalists. Too many writers and intellectuals have been prosecuted under Article 301 for speaking their minds. Shortly after the editor received a six-month suspended jail sentence, he was shot down on the street in front of his office in Istanbul. Five Turks have been charged in the murder, allegedly carried out by Ogun Samast, a 17-year-old who is suspected of being a member of a militant group. This is an abomination on so many levels, not the least of which is the twisted influence on a boy so young. Ironically, Mr. Dink declared, when sentenced last fall, that his persecution had a positive effect because it had forced a national debate on what it means to be a democracy. Indeed, thousands turned out for his funeral and demonstrations took place around the world. His killing has led to a call for a change in the law and some conciliatory gestures between historic enemies. The unfettered right to speak the truth without fear of reprisal would be a fitting tribute to a martyr who paid the highest price to defend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Why don't you read my posts carefully I said Hrant was getting lots of support from Turks. he does read your posts carefully. he just plays what the turks would call 'the mind game'. he wants you to use the magic word. 'Hrant was getting lots of support from Turks' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurderer Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 (edited) From Turks? which turks? Do you realy think these people would come hrank funeral If Hrant died from a heart attack? People are protesting assassination. They have not same idea with Hrant. It is assasination that reasoned sympaty and protests. do you realy think 100.000 people support Hrant ideas? (I should add, protest happened a work day, If It was not a work day, protesters would be much more.) If Turks would know hrant, They will like it. That is true.(After all he was a patriot of Turkey too.) But they did not know him. No turks read agop. dont missunderstood protests. It is anti-assasination protest, not pro-genocide protests. he does read your posts carefully. he just plays what the turks would call 'the mind game'. he wants you to use the magic word. 'Hrant was getting lots of support from Turks' He excatly dont get much support.(except some leftists and liberals) That is why I did not understand him. Edited January 26, 2007 by zurderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lev7 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 a lot of photos: http://www.milliyet.com.tr/content/galeri/...mp;galeriid=789 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neko Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 He is writing zaman, a much big newspaper than Agos. Infact one of biggest newspaper of Turkey and a religious newspaper. I thought that Zaman was a left-wing newspaper (left-wing in relation to other mainstream Turkish newspapers anyway) and was consistantly critical of fundamentalist Islam and its growing influence in Turkey? Or am I thinking of another newspaper?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 From Turks? which turks? Do you realy think these people would come hrank funeral If Hrant died from a heart attack? People are protesting assassination. They have not same idea with Hrant. It is assasination that reasoned sympaty and protests. do you realy think 100.000 people support Hrant ideas? (I should add, protest happened a work day, If It was not a work day, protesters would be much more.) If Turks would know hrant, They will like it. That is true.(After all he was a patriot of Turkey too.) But they did not know him. No turks read agop. dont missunderstood protests. It is anti-assasination protest, not pro-genocide protests. He excatly dont get much support.(except some leftists and liberals) That is why I did not understand him. Yes of course every person who came to the funeral did not come for the same reason, but it is absurd on your part to assume they all came to protest the assasination only. Also remember that for every person who came to the funeral, there are hundreds who couldn't come for whatever reasons therefore the actual support for Hrant was lot more that you people care to knowledge. The state knew his grassroot support before the killing, that is why they silenced him and you know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neko Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I can still not see what deep state can gain from this assasination? Foreign commentators on Turkey just like to use the phrase "Deep State" a lot because it makes them appear clever and knowledgeable about Turkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 From Turks? which turks? Yes indeed! The turkish press reports those were Armenians, Kurds, leftists, and intelecuals who don't represent 70million turkey. Do you realy think these people would come hrank funeral If Hrant died from a heart attack? You are not their spokesman, are you? People are protesting assassination. It wasn't the case with the other assassinations. Beside the Armenians, Kurds, leftists, and the supporters of Hrant Dink, there were those who were forced by the government to be there. They have not same idea with Hrant. How do you know that? It is assasination that reasoned sympaty and protests. How many others were killed before Hrant Dink? They had no sympaty for the others? do you realy think 100.000 people support Hrant ideas? Hrant Dink in his own words said 'if turkey becomes a democratic state, millions of armenians who were forcefully turkified will come forward...many of them already do, but their number is in million' (I should add, protest happened a work day, If It was not a work day, protesters would be much more.) the show the governmnet organized happened in a word day. If Turks would know hrant, They will like it. That is true.(After all he was a patriot of Turkey too.) But they did not know him. No turks read agop. http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070125/59672335.html "Q. The Agos is considered the Armenian community's press outlet. Why do you publish it in Turkish, as well as Armenian? A. That's just what makes it so dangerous to certain nationalistic circles in this country. The Agos tells the truth about the Armenian genocide. At the same time, we present it as part of history, and urge our readers to learn the lesson it teaches. We think of the Agos as a tool for education and reconciliation. At the same time, we hold up a mirror to the Turkish public. We say out loud: If Turkey really wants to join the EU, it has to acknowledge its historical responsibility and put an end to coercive assimilation of all minorities. All citizens of this country must have equal rights. " He became a public figure long before the assasination. The turkish tv and the newspapers called him a trator from the day of the first trial. dont missunderstood protests. It is anti-assasination protest, not pro-genocide protests. and you again speak for the others? He excatly dont get much support.(except some leftists and liberals) That is why I did not understand him. and you never will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurderer Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I thought that Zaman was a left-wing newspaper (left-wing in relation to other mainstream Turkish newspapers anyway) and was consistantly critical of fundamentalist Islam and its growing influence in Turkey? uh? Are we talking about www.zaman.com.tr ? They have some unfamoust writers like Elif Safak.(Maybe that is the reason why you think It is a leftist newspaper.) It is a newpaper of religious group. Nurcular. They are not critical about fundementalist islam but not support it much too. We can call them neo-sufist.(I created term.) Or am I thinking of another newspaper?? Maybe radikal? or Cumhuriyet?(This is kemalist-leftist.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neko Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 It is anti-assasination protest, not pro-genocide protests. But implicit in that anti-assasination protest must be a protest against the sort of society that encourages such assasinations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neko Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 uh? Are we talking about www.zaman.com.tr ? They have some unfamoust writers like Elif Safak.(Maybe that is the reason why you think It is a leftist newspaper.) It is a newpaper of religious group. Nurcular. They are not critical about fundementalist islam but not support it much too. We can call them neo-sufist.(I created term.) Maybe radikal? or Cumhuriyet?(This is kemalist-leftist.) Ooops. You are right - I think it is Radikal I am thinking of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurderer Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 (edited) Yes of course every person who came to the funeral did not come for the same reason, but it is absurd on your part to assume they all came to protest the assasination only. No, not everyone came for protest but main body absolutely came for protest. Also remember that for every person who came to the funeral, there are hundreds who couldn't come for whatever reasons therefore the actual support for Hrant was lot more that you people care to knowledge. It is a work day. So people should work.(Like me.) Still, It is not support for Hrant ideas, It is support for hrant right to live. The state knew his grassroot support before the killing, that is why they silenced him and you know this. My friend. I know my people. Be sure most of their knowledge comes from newspapers and television(Like most people.) They were thinking that hrant said that turk has poisoning blood. It is not true. Hrant was a real patriot. He is a respectable man, but People dont know him. If there was not assasination, people would not learn about him too. You are not their spokesman, are you? I know my people absolutely more than you. How many others were killed before Hrant Dink? They had no sympaty for the others? They had. This type of assasinations were always accused by Turkish society. the show the governmnet organized happened in a word day. It is hrant family organized funeral. I am bored with discussing your suspects. Have a nice day. But implicit in that anti-assasination protest must be a protest against the sort of society that encourages such assasinations. That is true but when did Turkish people supported assasinations? Infact, assasination created sypmaty for armenian people and Hrant. Now they are mazlums.(People who suffered.) Edited January 26, 2007 by zurderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 No, not everyone came for protest but main body absolutely came for protest. It is a work day. So people should work.(Like me.) Still, It is not support for Hrant ideas, It is support for hrant right to live. My friend. I know my people. Be sure most of their knowledge comes from newspapers and television(Like most people.) They were thinking that hrant said that turk has poisoning blood. It is not true. Hrant was a real patriot. He is a respectable man, but People dont know him. If there was not assasination, people would not learn about him too. I know my people absolutely more than you. They had. This type of assasinations were always accused by Turkish society. It is hrant family organized funeral. I am bored with discussing your suspects. Have a nice day. That is true but when did Turkish people supported assasinations? My friend Hrant's ideas were not only about the Genocide . It was only part of it, the rest was about freedom of speech and about democracy and this is what killed him. The dirty blood issue was the excuse please stop simlifying and making it a genocide issue. Hrant's main desire was to make Turkey democratic and he was hoping that after that they will behave accordingly and accept their past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurderer Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 (edited) My friend Hrant's ideas were not only about the Genocide . It was only part of it, the rest was about freedom of speech and about democracy and this is what killed him. The dirty blood issue was the excuse please stop simlifying and making it a genocide issue. I am not. I am not underestimating Dink. I am just saying how Turkish society saw him. It is not Hrant guilt or society guilt. Dirty blood thing used against him. Also Dink is not only one who is talking about democracy. There are a lot people who talk about democracy. Infact There are a lot people who accept armenian genocide but NONE of them said turkish blood is dirty. do you realy think that murderer read anything about hrant? He did not read any hrant writing. What he know is that, hrant said dirty turkish blood. He is 17 years old, uneducated and nationalist. dont wait complex plan from him. Reality and what Turks know is totally different two thing about Dink. Hrant's main desire was to make Turkey democratic and he was hoping that after that they will behave accordingly and accept their past. Genocide is not a priority of Hrant. His priority is friendship of Turks and Armenians(Not something I hope but absolutely this was his hope). He did not only critise Turkey but armenian diaspora about genocide issue too. Edited January 26, 2007 by zurderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 No, not everyone came for protest but main body absolutely came for protest. The Kurds, the leftists and thousands of others did. It is a work day. So people should work.(Like me.) Like you who spends countless hours in hyeforum. How much do they pay to be here? Still, It is not support for Hrant ideas, It is support for hrant right to live. why Hrant Dink and not the others? Timeline of a year of attacks and trials against freedom of expression in Turkey January 19, 2007: Hrant Dink, editor of the Turkish-Armenian newspaper Agos, is slain by a gunman in Istanbul. December 19, 2006: Writer Ipek Calislar acquitted of insulting Turkey's founder, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, in a biography in which she said Ataturk dressed as a woman to escape an assassination attempt. November 1, 2006: Archaeologist Ilmiye Cig acquitted of inciting religious hatred by claiming that Islamic-style head scarves were first used more than 5,000 years ago by priestesses initiating young men into sex. September 21, 2006: Author Elif Safak acquitted of "insulting Turkishness" for her fictional characters' statements about the killings of Armenians. July 27, 2006: Writer and journalist Perihan Magden acquitted of turning people against military service by defending a conscientious objector in her weekly magazine column. July 11, 2006: A court confirmed a six-month sentence imposed on Dink for "attempting to influence the judiciary" after his newspaper ran articles criticizing a law that makes it a crime to "insult Turkishness." February 7, 2006: A trial adjourned for five prominent Turkish journalists charged with insulting the country's courts by criticizing the court-ordered closure of an academic conference on the Armenian issue. Two nationalist lawyers are removed after a fight breaks out in the courtroom. January 23, 2006: A court drops charges of "insulting Turkishness" against author Orhan Pamuk on a technicality. Pamuk was charged after discussing the deaths of Armenians in Turkey with a Swiss newspaper. He won the Nobel Prize for literature later in the year. My friend. I know my people. Sure. Just like the other turkish officials, you know you people, you know what is best for them, you know who should do what and when. Be sure most of their knowledge comes from newspapers and television(Like most people.) They were thinking that hrant said that turk has poisoning blood. In the previous post you said "your people" don't know Dink. Aren't you condtradicting yourself? It is not true. Hrant was a real patriot. He is a respectable man, but People dont know him. but they think 'that Hrant said that turk has poisoning blood'? so do they-or they don't know him? If there was not assasination, people would not learn about him too. but they sill would call him a traitor, right? I know my people absolutely more than you. I never claimed i know your people. But since you speak for them, you must given a right to do so, right? They had. This type of assasinations were always accused by Turkish society. you mean before the assassination and accusation, they first torture their victim, isn't that right? It is hrant family organized funeral. WOW they had a time to think about it I am bored with discussing your suspects. Have a nice day. yeah. send me a postcard... That is true but when did Turkish people supported assasinations? you are the only country on the face of the earth that is accused of multiple genocides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I am not. I am not underestimating Dink. I am just saying how Turkish society saw him. It is not Hrant guilt or society guilt. Dirty blood thing used against him. Also Dink is not only one who is talking about democracy. There are a lot people who talk about democracy. Infact There are a lot people who accept armenian genocide but NONE of them said turkish blood is dirty. do you realy think that murderer read anything about hrant? He did not read any hrant writing. What he know is that, hrant said dirty turkish blood. He is 17 years old, uneducated and nationalist. dont wait complex plan from him. Reality and what Turks know is totally different two thing about Dink. Genocide is not a priority of Hrant. His priority is friendship of Turks and Armenians(Not something I hope but absolutely this was his hope). He did not only critise Turkey but armenian diaspora about genocide issue too. Neither Hrant said that Turkish blood is dirty. It is your so called educated lawyers said that he did. If you think that 17 years old kid did this alone you are not any different than the average Turk who doesn't know his front from his behind. So can you tell me now who killed Hrant? The 17 years old kid or those who fabricated those lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I am not. I am not underestimating Dink. I am just saying how Turkish society saw him. It is not Hrant guilt or society guilt. Dirty blood thing used against him. by the turkish government Also Dink is not only one who is talking about democracy. There are a lot people who talk about democracy. Infact There are a lot people who accept armenian genocide but NONE of them said turkish blood is dirty. are you saying Hrant did? do you realy think that murderer read anything about hrant? He said he did. He did not read any hrant writing. What he know is that, hrant said dirty turkish blood. You are also speaking for him? He is 17 years old, uneducated and nationalist. dont wait complex plan from him. so you are saying he didn't know what he was doing? Reality and what Turks know is totally different two thing about Dink. they alson know nothing about the reality they live in. It isn't about Dink anymore. Its about genocide, free speech, democracy etc. Genocide is not a priority of Hrant. His priority is friendship of Turks and Armenians(Not something I hope but absolutely this was his hope). He did not only critise Turkey but armenian diaspora about genocide issue too. That's why we call him 'A Man of Honor'. He spoke his mind and believed on what he said. But he also spoke about the genocide...and in his words 'If you were to take the entire armenian poplulation and put them in an golden airplane and move to somewhere else, that still wold have been a genocide. You cut the people from their roots. You cut them from the land where they have lived for 4,000 years...' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurderer Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Neither Hrant said that Turkish blood is dirty. It is your so called educated lawyers said that he did. I know but Turkish people did not know. If you think that 17 years old kid did this alone you are not any different than the average Turk who doesn't know his front from his behind. So can you tell me now who killed Hrant? The 17 years old kid or those who fabricated those lies of course fabricated lies(and bad feeling about armenians.) I am not refusing it but deep state? Nope. Infact They miscalculated that pumping nationalism will reason such an assasination and harm to Turkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I know but Turkish people did not know. that's why we call it a big thetto. 70 million are ruled by the generals, politicians, and the muslim extremists. Infact They miscalculated that pumping nationalism will reason such an assasination and harm to Turkey. they been doing it since the crationg of the republic of turkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I know but Turkish people did not know. of course fabricated lies(and bad feeling about armenians.) I am not refusing it but deep state? Nope. Infact They miscalculated that pumping nationalism will reason such an assasination and harm to Turkey. OK I'm going to ask you again, Who really killed Hrant Dink? And I'm not talking about the actual shooting, but since they fabricated the lies and filled people with hatred towards him. Is it the kid? Or the lies by some people whom I call piece of garbage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurderer Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 ultra nationalism killed Dink. (And people who lied about him.) Child is only a child. well, why did you wish me repeat this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 ultra nationalism killed Dink. that would be kemalism (And people who lied about him.) theturkish government and the media lied about him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurderer Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Armo, It is realy weird to be agree with you. Hmmm, I think that I have a mistake that I cannot see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 ultra nationalism killed Dink. (And people who lied about him.) Child is only a child. well, why did you wish me repeat this? Because ultra nationalism is your deep state. So deep state killed Hrant and I hope you agreed. Turkey needs to change its books for children, stop lying and teach them that every other nation or race is as good as them. No more "Ne mutlu Turkum diyene" your state is teaching your children to discriminate against others and be racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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