Assassination Of Hrant Dink

[Aratta-Kingdom]

why?

 

why not? that's the birth place of the armenian nation.

 

 

 

 

Bolsohays lived at istanbul much before turks. So I think bolsohays land is istanbul, their ancestoral land is also istanbul.

 

 

they never said that.

 

 

 

 

 

why their church at istanbul is less precious than ROA?

 

 

 

 

the survivors of the genocide have built churches in every country they went to. that doesn't mean their homeland is where the church is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because ROA is under armenian rule?

 

 

the provocative nature of your question suggests that you are more interested in having a trash talk instead of discussing real issues.

 

 

 

 

It is weird. For exp, Bulgarian turks dont want to leave their lands,

 

 

you mean Asia?

 

 

 

 

 

ahıska turks are ready to return their land(Even It means extra sufference).

 

 

 

go back to Asia

 

 

 

 

 

It is weird armenians forsake their lands so easily even ROA.

 

 

 

6million turks left turkey for europe, another 4 million left turkey and went to different parts of the world and you still talk about the armenians? armenians from diaspora have closest tie to their "land" than any turk will ever have. for us that land is a home. that's the birth place of our nation, -for you it's a land just like the one you left behind in Asia.

Edited January 29, 2007 by ArmoArmeN

[Aratta-Kingdom]

PRESS RELEASE

The Heritage Party

7 Vazgen Sargsian Street

Yerevan, Armenia

Tel.: (+374 - 10) 27.00.03, 27.16.00 (temporary)

Fax: (+374 - 10) 52.48.46 (temporary)

Email: info@heritage.am; office@heritage.am

Website: www.heritage.am

 

 

January 23, 2007

 

 

HERITAGE STATEMENT: HRANT DINK AND THE FACE OF TURKEY

 

 

Yerevan--The Heritage Party deplores the murder of Hrant Dink, pioneering

thinker and editor-in-chief of the Agos Armenian weekly of Turkey, and

extends its deep condolences to his family, colleagues, and friends.

 

No matter who is behind this heinous crime and who pulled the trigger, the

fact remains that it is the logical outcome of the Turkish government's

long-standing xenophobic policy toward the Armenian people--in Armenia, in

Turkey, and in the Diaspora--who continue to nurture their national

identity.

 

This dastardly act of terrorism against our dedicated, righteous compatriot

unmasks, in dreadful fashion, the contemporary face of Turkey to the entire

world. It serves also as a final alarm for the national minorities of that

country, and as a grave warning to the growing number of progressive Turkish

intelligentsia who have dared to express alternative, conscientious points

of view on the past and the present.

 

If Turkey really does want to become a democratic country--to which Hrant

Dink devoted his life and his death--where human rights are protected,

freedom of speech is guaranteed, and history is faced, the Turkish

authorities cannot now limit themselves to ostentatious pronouncements and

self-defensive mechanisms alone. They must instead react with integrity and

dignity finally to transform the theory and practice of their domestic

policies and international affairs.

 

The Heritage Party extends its solidarity to those who are committed to

meeting this decisive challenge, with its attendant implications for the

region and for the world.

 

Hrant Dink's life and love have not gone in vain.

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

http://www.yerkir.am/eng/index.php?sub=new...=26&id=7879

 

 

 

Yerkir Online

 

 

Who are the Turks and who are Armenians?

 

The Turkish handwriting is the same everywhere – it is written in red and you read it in black. Does the Turkish people’s and intellectuals’ massive participation in Hrant Dink’s funeral mean that they realize and accept the unquestionable truth of the Armenian Genocide? This does not reflect Ankara’s official position.

 

Wasn’t Hrant Dink’s murder another act of Genocide? Wasn’t the Turkish people’s participation in the funeral an affirmation of this fact? One thing is clear – in the context of the Armenian question Turkey’s nature does not change, it remains the same when killing, it is the same when mourning, it changes neither when laughing nor when crying.

 

Who are the Turks? Who are we? They are “special”, they can even call themselves “Armenian”. But you cannot become Armenian simply by shouting and applauding.

 

You can only be born Armenian. And if you consider yourselves Armenian, can you manage to live with it? We couldn’t live with you. Dink couldn’t live with you because he lived in a country where he was hated. How long can you live with self-denial when there is nothing to deny?

 

But this is an issue of identity for the Turks: they are Turks but they consider themselves “Armenian”, they call themselves “Armenian” but continue thinking like Turks, they officially deny the Genocide but follow the funeral procession mourning, they kill with one hand and put flowers with the other. This is the peculiarity of the Turkish identity.

 

Turkey, stop living with recirculation of your historical poison! Tell your people the truth! You have been lying for ninety years and they believed you. Do not be afraid and tell the truth and they will believe you again.

 

Wasn’t Hrant Dink a citizen of Turkey? He was a citizen but he was an ethnic Armenian. He was a citizen but his views did not coincide with the historical and political perspective of the government. So what?

 

Does this mean that he should be murdered because he lived in an environment that falsifies the reality and reinvents history? “We are all Armenians, we are all Dink,” the Turkish public shouted. Was this a revolution in the Turkish society? Listen, Hrant Dink, they are ready to even reject their nationality if only they can avoid recognizing the Genocide, and this is your victory.

 

Hrant Dink is the only bright trace in Turkey’s modern history. If official Ankara is smart enough, it will not lose this trace, it will re-examine its past and present and not build the future of the Turkish people on Genocides. Let Ankara cry out loud as much as it wants – every tear will burn with the fate of an Armenian family, and the red color will be reflected in these tears so vividly as the blood on the ground.

 

The Armenian question was raised and solved in Istanbul in 1915 – the Genocide of 1.5 million Armenians was organized. In 2007 the same continues in Istanbul in a more “civilized” manner.

 

Didn’t Turkey understand that the problem is not the Armenian question but Turkey itself? Didn’t it understand that the struggle is not about exterminating the Armenian identity but re-evaluation and recreation of its own identity? Is it too difficult to understand that we are more interested in your Europeanization than you yourselves since if you get civilized you might realize that what you did was a Genocide.

 

Tell the truth with the same enthusiasm with which you are knocking on Europe’s doors. Turkey is looking for its salvation in Europe – the latter does not promise any miracles but state it cannot save someone whose problem lies in his identity, in his genetic inferiority complex and barbarism, in the inherited capacity to commit genocides.

Edited January 29, 2007 by ArmoArmeN

[neko]

http://www.ikideli.com/images/hrantdink.jpg

 

This shoe is the thing that strangles my heart, that makes me a scattered mess...destititution and poverty is always hard to witness...especially when it goes hand in hand with death...all the tears one has saved throughout the day will be set free and flooded...

[/i]

 

That was a beautifully written piece, and a beautiful translation Aubépine.

Know anything about the "Sertaç" person who authored it?

http://www.ikideli.com/2007/01/22/hrant-di...9in-ayakkabisi/

[Hellektor]

I think we should discuss a little about this. I accept Turkey have much guilt but armenians are not totally innocent too.

This is where you are terribly wrong. There's no way Armenians can ever be guilty of anything. If every Armenian living today gives all Turks a thousand slow deaths by dissecting them and plucking their flesh with pliers it would not amount to 0.0000001% of what Turks have done to us the last thousand years.

 

We were living in our home since the beginning of history, minding our business and still being invaded by Assyrians, Persians (since Median times), Romans, Arabs among others. Until the day you came...

 

You brought nothing but death, destruction, subjugation, terror, rape, slavery, pillage, plunder, stealing of women and children and genocide and stopped the natural progress of the industrious Armenians. In return we gave you everything: we built your fucking "empire", fought your wars in form of "yenicheris", run your economy, our farmers fed your lazy, hailess Tatar asses, we provided you with genes to lose your Mongoloid features, we pioneered every single western idea in the fields of art, philosophy, politics, culture, etc., we built your mosques and palaces where your filthy sultans raped our women and at the end when you thought you didn't need us, you gave us genocide for thank you.

 

So before you utter bullshit like "Armenians are not totally innocent" think of the following:

 

Did we ask you to invade our home?

Did we ask, after 4000 years of civilization, you who were in the lowest stages of evolution, to come and rule over us?

Did we ask you to come and stop our progress?

Did we ask you to come and destroy our farmland, towns and cities?

Did we ask you to treat us like your reaya?

Did we ask you to steal our children for 500 years for janissary?

Did we ask you to change the name of our country, provinces, cities, towns and even flora and fauna?

Did we ask you to still squat in our home after you exterminated us?

 

 

How Can You Betray Pestilence?

 

We never considered you our nation neither our masters

You came to us like an abomination and fell upon us like a disaster

 

You were never seen as superior but you were a curse

So how can I do something to you that can be worse

Than anything you did to us the last thousand years?

Your legacy has been none but adversity, misery and tears

 

You descended upon us like cancer and the plague

So how can we betray disease, pain? And the dregs

That you are, you have not acquired the human traits

Shame, Guilt, Honesty, Modesty, Sincerity, "brave"

Turks call you yourselves, yet you deny your past

 

We know that you are nothing but the pest

That squats in our ruin infested home but never infected

Our blood... So how can you claim that we defected

And joined the enemies and stabbed you from the back?

 

When ‘twas you who initiated the attack

On women, children, elderly left helpless,

Treacherously bereft of the able bodied men

And community leaders. A nation rendered headless

Could never have had the means to attempt

To eradicate the vermin that had been gnawing at their roots

For nine dark centuries your swarm of Mongol locust

Hovered above Armenia and preyed upon us

To quench its thirst for blood and its beastly lust

 

Still you Serpent, spew the poison that implicates

The Armenians in the "losses" you "suffered"

In a war you decided to enter to pursue your wretched

Delirium, pan-Turkism, that with its ugly forked tongue

Every now and then slurps and swallows a newly offered

Sacrifice from among the best in our nation but for how long?

 

Why for a change shouldn’t we have brought upon you

The calamity, the rebellion you accuse us of? So that we too

Could have a soother for the restless

Souls of our charred and unburied millions

 

Tell me Invader, how can one betray cancer?

 

How can you stab the Plague in its putrid rear,

Or turn your back on pestilence? Or was it your fear

Of a revolt by those enslaved and ensnared

Under your paws and claws? Would they have dared

To ponder the beautiful plains, the mountains, the rivers

Yonder where man is said to have been created and saved

From an affliction a thousand times less cruel

Than what your species of vicious, merciless brutes

Spread into every corner of that very sacred ground?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

 

 

 

Jacques Chirac: TURKEY MUST UNDERGO A MAJOR CULTURAL REVOLUTION

 

 

 

October 05, 2005

BRUSSELS (AP)--French President Jacques Chirac said on Tuesday that

Turkey must undergo a "major cultural revolution" before entering

the European Union (EU), and reiterated that France would hold a

referendum on admitting Ankara to the bloc.

 

 

Chirac's comments represented the tough road ahead in Turkey's

membership in the 25-nation EU. It took last-minute wrangling after two

days of arduous talks between EU foreign ministers to overcome Austrian

objections to start the negotiations.

 

 

 

 

 

______________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

The French president was right. Turkey must undergo a major cultural changes before it becomes part of a civilized world. The country that has an identity issue cannot join E.U. just because the polticians have some inspirations... . Hrant Dink's assassination shows that the turks must first face the truth about the reality they live in. People who are detached from the reality cannot and will not change.

Edited January 29, 2007 by ArmoArmeN

[Aratta-Kingdom]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/29/opinion/edlet.php

 

 

Murder in Turkey

 

The assassination of Hrant Dink, a Turkish-Armenian journalist, stands to be a watershed event for Turkey. Many Turks see in this tragic event an opportunity to make a stand against the rise of a dangerous form of nationalism.

 

Nationalism in Turkey has not only been increasing but it has been changing course. In recent years it has acquired a more aggressive soul; it has become more xenophobic.

 

There are two main reasons for this change. Nationalism has been seen by many in the Turkish establishment as a panacea against the growing strength of political Islam, so for years it has been left unchecked. National identity was to supersede religious identity. State authorities have turned a blind eye to the escalation of nationalist rhetoric and action, thinking nationalism was better than Islamism.

 

But popular television series and books started to exalt a more aggressive form of nationalism. Eventually policies of state authorities came under the increased influence of this ideology. The Turkish judiciary's stance on the infamous article limiting the freedom of expression epitomizes this transformation.

 

 

Turkish civil society is intent on continuing its long standing struggle to enhance the respect for liberal democratic values. But its strength and domestic influence are being hindered by the regional policies of the United States as well as the European Union.

 

With Dink's murder the time has come for Turks to strive to eradicate this ugly face of nationalism and return to the patriotism of Ataturk. This is only something that Turks can do. The question remains whether they can receive more support and understanding from their American and European allies in their effort.

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

 

 

 

Light A Candle In Memory of Hrant Dink

 

 

http://www.bolsohays.com/candle.asp

[Aratta-Kingdom]

TURKISH JOURNALIST ADDRESSES TO PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE DEMANDING TO PUNISH

THOSE USED THE SLOGAN "WE ARE ALL ARMENIANS"

 

ISTANBUL, JANUARY 29, NOYAN TAPAN - ARMENIANS TODAY. Mete Cagdas, an

article author of the "Haber 57" newspaper being published in Sinop

addressed to the city Prosecutor's Office, stating that the slogan "We

are all Armenians, we are all Hrant Dink" is against Article 301 of the

Criminal Code and demanded that the authors and users of that slogan

are punished. "Hurriyet" wrote as if the grandfather of the journalist

presented the protest was killed by Armenians. And he now condemns his

colleague Hrant Dink's murder but at the same time insists that the

slogan contradicts the law. As Marmara states Turkish Minister of

Industry and Trade Ali Coskun relates to the slogan "We are all

Armenians" with preservation. "By having respect towards everybody, I

pray the God that I am a Muslim and am happy that I am Turkish, he

said, adding that others must display the same respect towards him.

According to Radikal, Ankara Trade Chamber Chairman Sinan Aygun said:

"We, Turks, have lived in this geographic territory 1000 years. We are

not Hrant. My name is Sinan Aygun." And Minister of State Mehmet Ali

Sahin mentioned that those using the slogan "We are all Armenians, we

are all Hrant" want to say that the crime committed against Hrant Dink

is against all of us.

Edited January 30, 2007 by ArmoArmeN

[Aratta-Kingdom]

From Grigor Zohrap to Hrant Dink

 

Yerkir.am

January 26, 2007

 

 

 

`The Armenian who contributes even insignificantly to the process of

Turkey's democratization will have a great contribution to the solution

of the Armenian nation's problems,' Hrant Dink insisted. However, this

opinion is not something new, it was expressed over a century ago.

 

The Armenian intellectual murdered in Istanbul was called the

1,500,001st victim of the Genocide. Hrant Dink is not the only Armenian

intellectual who was murdered because of his efforts to reform the

Turkish state.

 

The massacres in Western Armenia had already started when the Armenian

poet Ruben Sevak, who had started a brilliant career of a doctor in

Lausanne, returned to Polis from Europe.

 

Sevak lived with the most progressive European ideas and knew the most

outstanding European intellectuals. He returned to Turkey nurturing a

weak hope for the salvation of his nation hoping that he might b e able

to civilize the Turks with the progressive ideas that he had brought

from Europe.

 

The Armenian writer Grigor Zohrap who was also a member of the Turkish

parliament, wrote Turkey's constitution together with the country's

political elite trying to bring it as close to the European

constitutions as possible.

 

He too saw his nation's salvation and solution of its problems only

through an effort to civilize the Turks. These two examples are not

unique. We can continue the list. They both were killed, so was Hrant

Dink.

 

The massive response that followed Dink's murder, massive participation

of Turks in the protest actions and demonstrations still cause some

euphoric reaction among some Armenians.

 

We need time to digest the Turks' and Kurds' shouts saying `We are all

Armenian'. This is a political issue. I am concerned with another thing

` in what a tragic condition the Armenian political, social and

cultural leaders and intellectuals are that they have to deal with

civilizing the enemy, think about its welfare and progress in order to

serve efficiently the interests of his nation.

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

IN WORDS OF EYE-WITNESS, SECOND PERSON TOOK PART IN DINK'S MURDER

 

 

ANKARA, JANUARY 29, NOYAN TAPAN. There are obscure questions so far

within the framework of the investigation carried on in connection

with the murder of Agos newspaper's editor-in-chief Hrant

Dink. According to Radikal newspaper, nearly two hours after the

murder an eye-witness being on the scene provided a very important

information by live broadcast: "There was a second participant, too."

 

According to the eye-witness, on January 29, the day of Hrant Dink's

murder, he heard a shot when walking towards Osmanbey: "Turning left I

stood straight in front of the assassin. When walking he started to

smile but not at me but at a second person waiting for him at a corner

near the avenue, he as if wanted to say: "I did it." The shooting man

walked towards that man. And when he came up to him they walked

towards the street in silence. The avenue was almost empty at that

time, there were only three people. Seeing them a woman screamed and

when they started to run she even tried to run after them. After the

woman's scream the avenue became full of police cars. It was 14:57..."

 

The incident's eye-witness told this at a special report two hours

after the incident. He expressed his anxiety about the incident and

said: "The Police have not looked for me so far. And if indeed this

was organized by an organization and if they try to liquidate

me... Are the Police waiting for this? I cannot go out to the street."

 

[zurderer]

This is where you are terribly wrong. There's no way Armenians can ever be guilty of anything.

 

You(Personally) are guilty from stupidy. If you ask me, this is biggest crime. I did not even ready article after this.

[MosJan]

RESOLUTION CONDEMNING DINK’S ASSASSINATION INTRODUCED IN HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

 

*

 

article's photo

Armenian Caucus Member Rep. Joseph Crowley has introduced a resolution in the House of Representatives condemning the assassination of Armenian-Turkish bilingual ‘Agos’ weekly editor-in-chief Hrant Dink. In his words, it is of utmost importance that the U.S. Congress adopts this resolution condemning the brutal killing of Hrant Dink and sends a message that Turkey must protect the rights of all religious and ethnic minorities indiscriminately. "It is past time for Turkey to abolish Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code which precipitated this heinous crime,” said Representative Crowley. The resolution calls on the House to strongly condemn the tragic murder of Hrant Dink, as well as urge Turkey to continue its investigation and prosecution of those individuals responsible for his death. Furthermore, the legislation encourages Turkey to take appropriate action to protect freedom of speech by repealing Article 301, which criminalizes public discussion on the Armenian Genocide.

[MosJan]

ON HRANT DINK’S ASSASSINATION CASE TWO MORE SUSPECTS DETAINED

 

*

 

article's photo

On ‘Agos’ editor-in-chief Hrant Dink’s assassination case two more suspects have been detained. Orhan O. was arrested in Istanbul, and Hadji S. in Trabzon, where the other 6 suspects descent. They have already confessed to the murder of Hrant Dink. Police supposes Orhan O. and Hadji S. are not members of any illegal organization and personally wanted to “deliver Turkey from the threat to unity”, Turkish Media reports.

[MosJan]

TRABZON SECURITY SERVICE WAS AWARE OF HRANT DINK’S PREPARING ASSASSINATION

 

*

 

article's photo

During the investigation in Trabzon it cleared up one of suspects of ‘Agos’ Armenian-Turkish editor-in-chief Hrant Dink’s assassination Erhan Tuncel warned about the preparing crime the Trabzon Security Services in advance. According to some reports, beginning from 2004, when the McDonalds’s café was blown, Tuncel was intelligencer for police. In regard with the blast in the McDonalds’s café Erhan Tuncel alongside with Yasin Hayal and other suspects occurred on the dock. But Trabzon Security Service Chief Ramazan Akurek offered Tuncel to release him if he agreed to give information on the terror act. After it Erhan Tuncel visited Trabzon Security Office often. His last tip contained information on preparing murder of Hrant Dink. But Tuncel could not give proofs for the possible attack on the journalist. For this reason the workers of Security Service did not pay attention to that tip, “Milliet” reports.

[MosJan]

Turkish Police ‘Ignored Tip-Off On Dink’s Murder’

 

By Emma Ross-Thomas, Reuters

 

Turkish police were warned a year ago about a plot to kill Turkish-Armenian journalist Hrant Dink, media said on Tuesday, the latest suggestion authorities could have prevented a murder that has shocked the nation.

 

A 17-year-old unemployed youth shot Dink dead in broad daylight outside his office in Istanbul on January 19. Some 100,000 mourners poured on to the streets for his funeral to protest at the militant nationalism which apparently motivated his killer.

 

"There has been a tip-off that a man called Yasin Hayal, who lives in Trabzon, has said he will come to Istanbul and kill Hrant Dink," the Sabah daily quoted a letter, sent from Trabzon to Ankara's police intelligence HQ in February 2006, as saying.

 

The main suspects in the Dink case, including Hayal and the gunman, all come from the Black Sea province of Trabzon. The government has dismissed Trabzon's governor and police chief and sent two inspectors to probe whether authorities were at fault.

 

A national police spokesman on Tuesday could not confirm the Sabah report, which was also carried by other newspapers. "I can't say whether it is true or false. We are waiting for the report from the two investigators sent to Trabzon," spokesman Ismail Caliskan told Reuters.

 

Sabah and another newspaper, Milliyet, said one of the suspects charged in connection with the murder was an informer who had told police Hayal was planning to murder Dink. Hayal has admitted to inciting the confessed killer, Ogun Samast.

 

The Trabzon police sent their letter to Ankara in the same month as another murder in their town highlighting the dangers of intolerance among disaffected youth. A 16-year-old boy shot dead an Italian Catholic priest as he prayed in his church in Trabzon in February 2006. Turkish media say he was influenced by Islamist and ultra nationalist ideas.

 

Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan was quoted as saying on Tuesday that Turkey had paid a heavy price for not cracking down on what he called the "deep state" -- code for ultra-nationalist elements in the powerful security forces and bureaucracy ready to take the law into their own hands if need be. Local media linked Erdogan's comments to the Dink probe.

 

NTV television reported on Tuesday police had detained three more people over the murder, bringing the total to five. They have already charged six people with the killing.

 

Dink, 52, had been a hate figure for ultra-nationalists because he had urged Turks to acknowledge the mass killing of Armenians on Turkish soil in 1915, still a highly sensitive issue in this European Union candidate country.

 

(AP-Photolur photo)

[Aratta-Kingdom]

 

 

 

Erdogan against canceling 301 article, but says it’s possible to make changes in it

 

 

30.01.2007

 

 

 

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Turkish PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan speaks against canceling the 301st article of the Turkish Penal Code, but he says it is possible to make some changes in it. In his words, the matter is not about full cancellation of the article. Alongside he added that the Turkish government is ready to discuss offers from non-governmental organizations and other interested parties on the issue. The well-known 301st article, which foresees criminal punishment for “insulting Turkishness”, has being criticized by international structures, including the European Union, since it limits freedom if speech in the country. Armenian-Turkish bilingual ‘Agos’ editor-in-chief Hrant Dink was sentenced to 6-month suspended imprisonment under this article. After his assassination the claims to cancel that very law strengthened both from international and Turkish non-governmental organizations, Cihan News Agency reports.

 

 

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

the show is over and the turks are back to their normal way of life. or, maybe i must say the show too was/is part of their normal way of life.

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

HOLD THE GOVERNMENT TO ACCOUNT OVER ARMENIA AND JOIN TRIBUTE TO DINK

 

 

 

Morning Star/UK, Friday 26 January 2007

 

Dear Comrades, Now that Armenian journalist Hrant Dink has paid with his life for speaking out on the truth of the Genocide of Armenians, we can aid his work for reconciliation with Turks by asking our MPs to make representations to the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary to ask them to end the government's compliance with Turkey's denial of the Armenian Genocide. Importantly, we can also ask our MPs to sign the Early Day Motion on the Armenian Genocide (no 357) put down by Bob Spink MP. It is this Denial of the genocide which demonizes Armenians in Turkey who speak out about the truth of their past. The position of the UK government is untenable i.e. that the large-scale massacres do not constitute genocide as defined by the 1948 UN convention. This convention is quite short and simple as shown below. Article 2 of the 1948 UN convention: "In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group ; b ) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

 

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another." As Foreign Minister Geoff Hoon has accepted that over a million Armenians were killed in the massacres of 1915, does not this fit exactly into the definition of genocide given in the convention? He should ask at what level in the government has this issue been discussed, and which experts have been consulted on the matter? Also could they please name one single historian in the UK who still denies the Armenian Genocide? The murder of Hrant Dink for standing up for the truth proves that this is not an issue which concerns just historians. The way past British governments have let down the Armenian nation ever since the time of Disraeli leaves a bitter taste for all UK Armenians. Let's face it. Turkish democracy is based on a lie, that there was no Genocide of Armenians. Even Turkey's present borders are based on the success of the Genocide. The British government continues to placate Turkey concerning this issue as usual, for its selfish strategic and economic interests. You can help us by attending our "Vigil for Armenia and Tribute to Hrant Dink"" outside the House of Commons from midday till 2.00 p.m. next Tuesday (30th January).

 

Your sincerely, Eilian Williams

Edited January 30, 2007 by ArmoArmeN

[Hellektor]

You(Personally) are guilty from stupidy. If you ask me, this is biggest crime.

I have always defended you in Armenian, in English and in PMs, when all users treated you like shit. Not because I admire your eyes that I don't even see but because I have met Turks on other forums that posted unbelievably vicious messages. I thought of you as a relatively tolerant Turk that had some potential of being civilized. I don't remember having insulted you"(Personally)" so this only shows that you are just a typical Turk and as the beautiful Persian proverb goes:

 

عاقبت گرگ زاده گرگ شود

گر چه با آدمی بزرگ شود

 

Alas... it's soooo beautiful in Farsi. It means something like:

 

The wolf's whelp will become a wolf in the end

Even though it grows up among men

 

I did not even ready article after this.

Too bad

 

It's not an article. I asked you a dozen questions. At the end I wrote a poem just for you...

 

The following was a part of my signature in another forum, I used it because there were many Turkish posters and I didn't want to repeat myself time and again:

 

Four things denialist Turks do when they are confronted with facts:

 

I. They change the subject (e.g. they copy/paste tons of garbage to divert attention).

II. They project (e.g. they replace "Turk" with "Armenian" and vice versa and they regurgitate Armenian history).

III. They offend (e.g. they cuss, threaten and/or mock).

IV. They shut up and say nothing.

 

So in which one of these do you see yourself?

 

You damn well know when I said "There's no way Armenians can ever be guilty of anything" I meant in issues regarding Turks and Armenians and I defended this with what I wrote after this sentence. It's obvious your reluctance to answer my questions results from the FACT that you use the Option IV of the above.

 

 

[ED]

Հելլեկտոր

 

Բարեկամ, թող քեզ դա լինի դաս,

սրանիս՚ հետո, ու արհասարակ

դրա,ավանակի գլխին դու միշտ պիտ տաս

հիշես՚նես, ասես, ու կրկնել տաս.

վոր դու միշտ եշ ես, ու եշ ել կըմնաս

թե չե հանկարծ մի քեղետցիկ օր

դեմետ կըկագնի մի հրեղեն ձի.

Edited January 31, 2007 by Edward

[neko]

I have always defended you in Armenian, in English and in PMs, when all users treated you like shit.

 

I find that hard to believe. Treating people like shit is your trademark.

 

Not because I admire your eyes that I don't even see but because I have met Turks on other forums that posted unbelievably vicious messages. I thought of you as a relatively tolerant Turk that had some potential of being civilized.

 

How kind of you, you patronising **** without the smallest potential of ever being civilized.

 

I don't remember having insulted you"(Personally)" so this only shows that you are just a typical Turk and as the beautiful Persian proverb goes:

 

Given that you like to insult everyone in vast areas of the World, insulting individuals personally probably isn't something you would notice doing.

 

عاقبت گرگ زاده گرگ شود

گر چه با آدمی بزرگ شود

 

Alas... it's soooo beautiful in Farsi. It means something like:

 

The wolf's whelp will become a wolf in the end

Even though it grows up among men

Too bad

 

You seem to be very fond of "Iranian" sayings which are about as exclusively Iranian as bread and cheese are.

 

Four things denialist Turks do when they are confronted with facts:

 

I. They change the subject (e.g. they copy/paste tons of garbage to divert attention).

II. They project (e.g. they replace "Turk" with "Armenian" and vice versa and they regurgitate Armenian history).

III. They offend (e.g. they cuss, threaten and/or mock).

IV. They shut up and say nothing.

 

So in which one of these do you see yourself?

 

Zurderer has already said, and said on several occasions, that the genocide is a fact and he has also gone as far as accepting a reasonable accurate figure for the numbers killed.

 

[Takoush]

Հելլեկտոր

 

Բարեկամ, թող քեզ դա լինի դաս,

սրանիս՚ հետո, ու արհասարակ

դրա,ավանակի գլխին դու միշտ պիտ տաս

հիշես՚նես, ասես, ու կրկնել տաս.

վոր դու միշտ եշ ես, ու եշ ել կըմնաս

թե չե հանկարծ մի քեղետցիկ օր

դեմետ կըկագնի մի հրեղեն ձի.

Իրականութիւններ...Իրականութիւններ...եւ կրկին Իրականութիւններ!!!

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2007 by Anahid Takouhi

[Dave]

Tension in Black Sea city Trabzon reflected in banners at football match

 

With all eyes turned to the Black Sea city of Trabzon, following the discovery that Hrant Dink's killer had originated from there, along with a group of other people arrested in connection with the incident, tension in Trabzon was apparent last night at a football match between local Trabzonsport and Kayserispor.

 

The stands at the football match were filled with fans, some of whom were holding banners in clear response to the banners that had been carried at Hrant Dink's funeral in Istanbul last week, which had said "We are all Armenian," and "We are all Hrant Dink." In Trabzon last night, some of the banners seen in the stadium read "We are Turkish, We are from Trabzon, We are all Mustafa Kemal Ataturk," and "I am Turkish, I am right, I am from Trabzon."

 

Despite the cold weather in Trabzon last night, the match stadium was filled with an estimated 15 thousand fans holding around 3 thousand banners, many in reference to the now controversial banners seen at the Dink funeral in Istanbul. Crowds were also heard chanting slogans in support of the Trabzon Police Chief Resat Altay, who was removed from his posting by Ankara officials following the discovery that Ogun Samast, the 17 year old held in the murder of Hrant Dink, was from Trabzon.

 

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/5856630.asp?gid=74

 

Video clip in Turkish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtSpTnIraL0...ser&search=

Another one in Turkish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaGREhM6yEY...ted&search=

 

This is sad; these people are assimilating the assassination of Hrant Dink to a soccer match.

Edited January 31, 2007 by Dave

[Stormig]

You(Personally) are guilty from stupidy. If you ask me, this is biggest crime.

That is the daftest thing I've read in a while.

[Arpa]

Tension in Black Sea city Trabzon reflected in banners at football match.

OK kids.

Can we put an end to this nonsense?

What did you expect the Trabzonites to say? That they are Aafrikans or that they are Zulus?

They are Turks.

Yes. We know Hrant said that he was Turkish but not a Turk, whatever the diference. He must have been one in 73 million to say so.

If we don’t like them saying they are Turks then why did we let them have Trabzon? Why did we not keep it an Armenian town where we could raise banners at a football match saying “We are Armenians”?

If you don’t like what they are saying, if you want them to say “We are Armenians” then go conquer it and make it an Armenian city.

No wonder Zurzerrots and his ilk are making a mockery of us.

Can we just shut up and concentrate on making enough weapons to blow them to the moon?