Takoush Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 (edited) Anynomous, don't you think that statements like this alienates a lot of Armenains. You are artificially excluding people who are yes married to human being who happen not to originate from that piece of be rock called Ermenistan. Sooner or later we will disappear, this is inevitable...and guess what when we do...the world will continue at its normal pace...this is part of life...take a long break and relax. Kakachik: You have a doomed attitude. You are basically throwing the towel in from Armenianism and Armenianness. Well hopefully most of the Armenians on this universe doesn't have the giving it up attitude as you do. Everyone on this universe is a human being; but a cosmopolitan human being in the end will serve to no one but himself. Yet a Greek, An Armenian or a Yugoslavian will better think, dream and serve to his countrymen much more and better than a person who takes the easy way out by declaring himself or herself a cosmopolitan and be useful only to himself. I hope you get the message. Edited April 14, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 (edited) Anynomous, don't you think that statements like this alienates a lot of Armenains. You are artificially excluding people who are yes married to human being who happen not to originate from that piece of be rock called Ermenistan. Sooner or later we will disappear, this is inevitable...and guess what when we do...the world will continue at its normal pace...this is part of life...take a long break and relax. This is the sort of rubbish I am talking about. If you support the miscegenation of our commonfolk with every genotype, in my book you are adding nothing more than the deliterious effect on an already endangered people. Not only have you ignored the key point of what I said, namely that people and the blood the make the culture, and not the other way around, but you have gone beyond that and managed to justify your prurient interests by the faulty and defeatist reasoning that is not even proven or conclusive. We may as well state, "oh well, since the earth will one day end becuase we all know about the second law of thermodynamics and since all systems move toward disorder, and the sun will one day cease shining, yada, yada, yada, we may as well just commit suicide right now since we are going to die anyway." The only Armenians my statements alienates are the ones that may as well not be Armenian since they have already formed a defeatist and slave morality. I suggest you start to learn Chinese, or at least teach your kids that since they may need it in the future. And even if China isn't the next epicenter of power, at least you can boast about the multicultural value of it. Edited April 14, 2006 by Anonymouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabig Posted April 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I must admit I feel the same way, in theory. But in practice it sounds so difficult for me, especially living in an area with such a low Armenian community (and by that, I mean that I AM the Armenian community). I know I have an "ethnic responsibility" to marry Hye, but it almost breaks my heart to think that none of these romantic partners I've had, who have all been odar (and a multicultural bunch at that), could be "the one" for me and that I have to narrow my options so drastically. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I must admit I feel the same way, in theory. But in practice it sounds so difficult for me, especially living in an area with such a low Armenian community (and by that, I mean that I AM the Armenian community). I know I have an "ethnic responsibility" to marry Hye, but it almost breaks my heart to think that none of these romantic partners I've had, who have all been odar (and a multicultural bunch at that), could be "the one" for me and that I have to narrow my options so drastically. Sigh. Tsavet danem, I have the same problem Although, hopefully, I will be able to move country in a few years if my "vijag" gets better and be immersed in the Armenian community I always dreamed of being a part of. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't New York hold a reasonable amount of Armenians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakachik77 Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 This is the sort of rubbish I am talking about. If you support the miscegenation of our commonfolk with every genotype, in my book you are adding nothing more than the deliterious effect on an already endangered people. Not only have you ignored the key point of what I said, namely that people and the blood the make the culture, and not the other way around, but you have gone beyond that and managed to justify your prurient interests by the faulty and defeatist reasoning that is not even proven or conclusive. We may as well state, "oh well, since the earth will one day end becuase we all know about the second law of thermodynamics and since all systems move toward disorder, and the sun will one day cease shining, yada, yada, yada, we may as well just commit suicide right now since we are going to die anyway." The only Armenians my statements alienates are the ones that may as well not be Armenian since they have already formed a defeatist and slave morality. I suggest you start to learn Chinese, or at least teach your kids that since they may need it in the future. And even if China isn't the next epicenter of power, at least you can boast about the multicultural value of it. hey, the point here is not the long stuff you wrote about...but more I am trying to point out that narrowing down Armenianness can cause more damage than help the cause. And this topic has been constantly tackled on this forum. For example, when I first heard about the Hamshen Armenians, I was extremely upset and said there is no chance on earth these people can be called Armenians. But if keep excluding people based on the fact that they are half Armenian or Armenian of different faith, then the bottom line is you are excluding bunch of people and hurting the numbers. This traditinal mentality of keeping Armenianness by marrying only Armenians is becoming really old, the natural birth is not going to do the job, compared to the natural births of some of neighbors. There has to be a better way to keep the Armenianness going...and since you are so dedicated to the cause...then find the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 hey, the point here is not the long stuff you wrote about...but more I am trying to point out that narrowing down Armenianness can cause more damage than help the cause. And this topic has been constantly tackled on this forum. For example, when I first heard about the Hamshen Armenians, I was extremely upset and said there is no chance on earth these people can be called Armenians. But if keep excluding people based on the fact that they are half Armenian or Armenian of different faith, then the bottom line is you are excluding bunch of people and hurting the numbers. This traditinal mentality of keeping Armenianness by marrying only Armenians is becoming really old, the natural birth is not going to do the job, compared to the natural births of some of neighbors. There has to be a better way to keep the Armenianness going...and since you are so dedicated to the cause...then find the solution. Unfortunately, the vague and shallow concept of "Armenianness" (whatever that means), has no bearing on anything. What the hell is that anyway? What I do know are Armenians and Armenian. Do you know what happened in Japan during and after World War II? You see, in that time, the American troops were stationed in Japan. And as you may remember, the American army at that time was still segregated. There were white divisions and black divisions. When the American troops were stationed, men from the black division obviously impregnated quite a few Japanese ladies. But after the war, do you know what Japan did? It bundled up all the women and their mixed offspring and shipped them off to Brazil. Essentially, it did not want to dilute its gene pool. By modern leftist and egalitarian Western "standards" Japan was horribly "racist". In Japan, there is a fixed ethnic connotation of what is meant by "Japanese". You cannot simply become "Japanese" by eating sushi and wearing a kimono. They recognize and understand that Japan is distinctly Japanese, and it is rooted in the blood, not in "Japaneseness" of people who may adopt or mimic the culture. The solution is already there in front of you, but it seems to be displeasing since that would would mean exercising discretion, judgement and restraint which often times takes a bite out of the prurient interests of us as humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Anynomous, don't you think that statements like this alienates a lot of Armenains. You are artificially excluding people who are yes married to human being who happen not to originate from that piece of be rock called Ermenistan. Sooner or later we will disappear, this is inevitable...and guess what when we do...the world will continue at its normal pace...this is part of life...take a long break and relax. Yes the same was said by turks some 90 years ago, and many other civilizations who have precided them, and disepeared a long time ago,even yesterday was said by a Maronite TV here in Lebanon(Maronites Who are on the verge of disapearing!)they wanted from Armenian young generation to marry local maronites,it is in my oppinion like pumping Armenian fresh blood into a dying corps!!. and despite all of these guess what we are still here and will witness one day the nailes beeing hammered to the coffins of peples like Turks and many other babrbarians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubépine Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Anynomous, don't you think that statements like this alienates a lot of Armenains. You are artificially excluding people who are yes married to human being who happen not to originate from that piece of be rock called Ermenistan. Sooner or later we will disappear, this is inevitable...and guess what when we do...the world will continue at its normal pace...this is part of life...take a long break and relax. Before I read the second post where the issue was put into context, first I thought that this is a typical example of self-hate. It is more closely associated with some Jews and leftists. I can never understand such people especially if it is their own nation in question. It's more a reaction of alienation and hopelessness here I suppose. They can always opt out if they wish, if it is such a burden on them. Why should the rest share the blame of their misery if all they can do is to attribute it to others? But alienating others because their spouses are foreigners or their children is wrong. Love knows no boundaries unfortunately. I think it is best to include them into the fold as best as possible. (P.S. I wasn't referring to you kakachik while giving the above example. I would be very upset myself if I gave you that impression.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakachik77 Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Has anyone heard of the word “conversion”. For those not well versed in the English language, in this context it is դաւանանփոխում in Armenian. Or is that an only a one way street? Why is it that every mixed marriage must be a convert out and not the way in??!! Can we learn to welcome those potential converts into our folds?! Or is it the old hackneyed Armenian adage propagated by our ignorant clerry that an Armenian is born such, and cannot be not made. Keep it up and see if anyone would convert to become an Armenian. Look at Turkey. More than 50% of those who today say "Blessed is who that professes to be a Turk" were once Armenians, either by default or design. Would a Polish or Italian choose to convert to become Armenian? Can we show them that our cultute is better? No. I don't mean our culture of Genocide. Has anyone surveyed the stats on this forum? Genocide, 1117 topics, 9005 responses. How many have the likes of Komitas earned? I don't know. Look it up yourselves. Who, in their right mind would want to join us?? Arpa, as usual impressive answer, goes along with what I have been trying to expose in the traditional Armenian mentality...again which is not helping the numbers at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Anon (and rest), how important is it to keep the "armenian genotype" if everything else "armenian" is lost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 (edited) Yes the same was said by turks some 90 years ago, and many other civilizations who have precided them, and disepeared a long time ago,even yesterday was said by a Maronite TV here in Lebanon(Maronites Who are on the verge of disapearing!)they wanted from Armenian young generation to marry local maronites,it is in my oppinion like pumping Armenian fresh blood into a dying corps!!. and despite all of these guess what we are still here and will witness one day the nailes beeing hammered to the coffins of peples like Turks and many other babrbarians. Of course! Did he also suggest that, Allah forbid (that is what they call God in their moronic Arabic language), in the process that a Maronite may convert to an Armenian? Or his hope is that all Armeinans become moronites?? Whatever happened to those days when those same Maronites would insult and debase the Armenians as "beni basturma/she'fet Ermeni"!! If only those moronic Maronites would stop speaking that damn Islamic/Koranic language also known as Arabic, stop callin themselves "Christian Arabs, tantamount to us calling oursevles "Christian Turks" and redescover their true Pheoenician heritage may be then they can survive and ptoliferate. What has saved the Armenian nation? Religion? Christianity? The East Timorese are Christian too. Does that make them Armenian, or conversely, does it make us Timorese? The only Arabs I know of are the natives of Mecca. Why do Lebanese, Syrians, Eyptians, Iraqis, .... call themselves Arabs is beyond my intelligence. Uzbeks and Kyrgiz speak a form of Turkish too. Do they call themselves Turks? WE Chrsitians just like the Ethipians. Do we call ourselves Ethiopian?? Ss lon as those moronic Maronites call themselves (Lebanese?)Arabs, they will et what they deserve. They will be become Arabs, circumcised or not. If hey want to save their Maronite Lebanon then may be they should reain their majority, stop speaking Arabic, make Phoenician the official language. But, look who is talking. When there are more Armenians outside of the Yerevan province as there are ten times more so called Christian Lebanese in France, North and South Americas than in Lebanon proper... Can we all put our monies where our mouths are!! Edited April 15, 2006 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 (edited) Arpa how about the other thing that they used to call us. "Kes ekhtol babpor yalle jabkon". To those who don't understand Arabic it means, " (swearing to the sister of) the ship that brought you people here". Edited April 15, 2006 by Yervant1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Anon (and rest), how important is it to keep the "armenian genotype" if everything else "armenian" is lost? It won't be, brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunt Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 no man lol, armenian girls who eat baneer with chay, they're the one's who lookin out for the kids So in other words, 2 wives are needed, , ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takoush Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 So in other words, 2 wives are needed, , ! Shad agheg payts; how about if we get two husbands too? Heh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 It won't be, brother. look around you, anon... look at yourself... look at me... what's left armenian in us? what puts us apart from the rest? nothing... nothing special is left in being "armenian"... only that we may or may not speak armenian and be concerned with a few pitty armenian afairs... and if that's all it's going to take to lebal us "armenian", then having a gene or two from "foreigners" won't do much "damege"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anahit Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 I suggest you start to learn Chinese, or at least teach your kids that since they may need it in the future. And even if China isn't the next epicenter of power, at least you can boast about the multicultural value of it. HA HA I know this was not addressed to me, but couldn't resist replying: I HAVE LEARNT CHINESE, IN FACT I ALMOST MASTER IT (like other armenian students who came and keep on coming to China to study), and I WILL TEACH CHINESE TO MY KIDS! i will teach them russian as well. armenian, english and french they will know anyway... What ever u might think of this, but for me the point is, like my grandfather has been saying always:"INCHKAN LEZU GITES, AYNKAN MARD ES!" Also, language is the greatest tool to the understanding of a culture, i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anahit Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 MARRY WITH AN ARMENIAN, TO YOUR OWN KIND OR VANISH. Anahid Takouhi, the same thing works in the other direction too: MARRY THE ONE U LOVE OR VANISH! and, if u have ever loved, u should be able to understand what this means. Also, in this world which has become smaller and smaller (globalization, high-tech etc) the idea of "marry your own kind" is very weak and not proper. On the other hand, when poor human beings strive so hard for their life nowdays, they deserve to be with the one they love, and NOONE has the right to stop them from that happiness. Marrying without love is immoral and too hurtful, no matter the excuses: money, the age (many people have the excuse of being at the age to get married), children, getting out of the country, continuing the race... whatever the excuse is. i think marriage must be based on love. loving family is the strongest bases for the society. loving family=strong family will bring up healthier and better generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anahit Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 A friend of mine had to give up her only ever love just because of her parents. the excuse they had? i am shamed to say, hayeren grem, vor urishner@ chhaskanan: na sev er. Since then many years have passed, she has never liked anyone, and she has many white hair already: she is not happy (she is too young for white hair). the family is trying their best to "get" her an armenian guy, but they have missed the point: people don't fall in love with the nationality, but the person! I hope my kids (and my friends, anyone i know... EVERYONE ON THE WORLD!) fall in love with good people, who love them and treat them so well! it doesn't matter where they come from... LOVE, PEACE & RESPECT! (Anahit started dreaming again...) Ok, from REAL LIFE: im amusin@ hay che, chnexanak, bayc yes iran voch mi hayi het chem poxi, enkan lavn a! yes ira cav@ tanem!!!! im znoxnern u @nkernern iren aynkan en sirum, el chaselu! ink@ inj het shpveluc, mer "nist u kacin" zanotanaluc heto, HAYACEL E iren beranov inj kani kani angam asel e, vor mer yerexaner@ tox hayastanum mezanan, tox ko maman irenc dastiraki... INCH EM UZUM ASEM! uzum em asel ayn, vor lav ban@ micht el mnum e, vat@ gnum e! ete mern urishic lavn e, apa kndunen mer@, yev mer@ chi anhaytana! yerbek! ham el, AYO, DE AXR MERN URISH E !!!! p.s. YEV URISHIC LAVN E he he he... im rasistutyunn el e mek mek brnum, de hay em che Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aSoldier Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Anahid Takouhi, the same thing works in the other direction too: MARRY THE ONE U LOVE OR VANISH! and, if u have ever loved, u should be able to understand what this means. Also, in this world which has become smaller and smaller (globalization, high-tech etc) the idea of "marry your own kind" is very weak and not proper. On the other hand, when poor human beings strive so hard for their life nowdays, they deserve to be with the one they love, and NOONE has the right to stop them from that happiness. Marrying without love is immoral and too hurtful, no matter the excuses: money, the age (many people have the excuse of being at the age to get married), children, getting out of the country, continuing the race... whatever the excuse is. i think marriage must be based on love. loving family is the strongest bases for the society. loving family=strong family will bring up healthier and better generation. Anahid Takouhi wasn't suggesting you marry an Armenian that you don't love. Love is a default subject here. We are specifically speaking about keeping our Armenian identity, which I hope all of us want to do. I know you married an odar and you are defending yourself; that's fine, but the idea of "marry your own kind" is not weak and improper at all. In fact, you should not marry an odar so that the Armenian identity we fought long and hard for does not go to waste. Whether you like it or not, the Armenianness that once lived in you, will diminish to nothing by the time you have great great grandchilden, if not earlier. Nations have tried to destroy us, but it looks like we will finish the job ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anahit Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Do you know what happened in Japan during and after World War II? You see, in that time, the American troops were stationed in Japan. And as you may remember, the American army at that time was still segregated. There were white divisions and black divisions. When the American troops were stationed, men from the black division obviously impregnated quite a few Japanese ladies. But after the war, do you know what Japan did? It bundled up all the women and their mixed offspring and shipped them off to Brazil. Essentially, it did not want to dilute its gene pool. By modern leftist and egalitarian Western "standards" Japan was horribly "racist". In Japan, there is a fixed ethnic connotation of what is meant by "Japanese". You cannot simply become "Japanese" by eating sushi and wearing a kimono. They recognize and understand that Japan is distinctly Japanese, and it is rooted in the blood, not in "Japaneseness" of people who may adopt or mimic the culture. Many Japanese marry foreigners here, specially Chinese (do u know what THIS means?!), IF THEY GET THE CHANCE! and go back to Japan with them! But i must admit that there are not many foreigners willing to go out/marry with them. so, Anon, it is not that THEY won't marry others, it's OTHERS that don't want to marry them. aghjiknern eli vochinch bnavorutyamb, tepet artakinic hech lav marmin chunen, bayc tghaner@ bacarjak "take care of girls" anel chgiten u vor tesnek te inchpes en hagnvum, ushkic kgnak Anon jan, i think this is your 2nd post i quote, i hope u don't take this as an attack or something Please don't hate me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anahit Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Anahid Takouhi wasn't suggesting you marry an Armenian that you don't love. Love is a default subject here. We are specifically speaking about keeping our Armenian identity, which I hope all of us want to do. I know you married an odar and you are defending yourself; that's fine, but the idea of "marry your own kind" is not weak and improper at all. In fact, you should not marry an odar so that the Armenian identity we fought long and hard for does not go to waste. Whether you like it or not, the Armenianness that once lived in you, will diminish to nothing by the time you have great great grandchilden, if not earlier. Nations have tried to destroy us, but it looks like we will finish the job ourselves. No!!!!!!!!!! darling!!!!!!!!!!! i am so happy!!!!!!!!!!! i just want everyone else to be happy too! there is absolutly nothing to defend about being in love and happy!!!! when u are in love and happy, u will see what i mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anahit Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Joxovurd jan, sorry for my late and "in a row" replies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anahit Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 And,sSebs, I know that u are young, and still have a lot to experience and live bla bla... But I have to say that I read before a post by u on the Armenian identity, and i disagree with u: we have HUGE, different ideas on it, so it would not be proper for me to start talking about it with u, cause i think u have wrong idea about the armenian identity (my assumption is based on your posts in another topic). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anahit Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 (edited) And, Sebastia, u know what? i am soooooo happy i have married my sweetheart! and the fact, that i have never met an armenian like him, makes me to thank God (i don't know who else to thank) all the time that my honey is not armenian. I know this is little bit too much: probably there are armenian guys like him too, but he is sooooo much better than any other armenian, EXCEPT MY UNCLE!, than i have known, that i just can't stop comparing and always say to myself, i am so lucky that i didn't have to marry any of those armenians. oh... well... this is the truth. now u can ALL hate me! sometimes even i think to myself:"what a pity, that such a good girl like me (he he he hamestutyamb chem tarapum ) didn't find an armenian" cause this is what i read in the eyes of armenians who i meet in other countries, but on the other hand i also think to myself:"but such a good girl like me deserves such a great man like him!!!!!" don't u think so?! AND I AM SOOOOOOO HAPPY!!!!!!!! axr inkn enkan lavn a, joxovurd, vor tesnek che, ksiraharvek ien! I am so proud of our union, sSebB, that i wish the same to all my beloved ones: to love, be loved, happy and proud of their partner of life! Sorry i made a mistake in your name Edited April 16, 2006 by Anahit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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