Eastern Armenian-western Armenian

[Harut]

In 9th grade, my brilliant Armenian teacher, knowing that her students' first language was English, taught us a shorthand way to differentiate between "zis" and "indzi." Every other Monday, in Armenian class, we would have composition lessons where we would write a short essay about a given topic. One day, we entered class, and our teacher had written in HUGE letters on the chalkboard, the following:

 

Me = Zis

To/For me = Indzi

 

From that point on, I understood the difference, and I was able to apply the theory also to "mez/mezi," "tsez/tsezi" and "kez/kezi." It's all the same idea.

 

For example:

 

You slapped me = Zis abdagetsir

You gave the book to me = Kirke indzi dvir

 

Don't unnerve me = Mi chghaynatsner zis

He is so nice to me = Inch pari e indzi hanteb

 

While you should never translate from English to Armenian, this is an easy to way visualize and understand the difference. It also illustrates HOW WRONG and AWFUL it sounds to use the words incorrectly. Imagine saying "You slapped to me" (Indzi abdagetsir). I would say that probably 90% of WA speakers say "Indzi abdagetsir" instead of "Zis abdagetsir." And it's so wrong...

 

More examples:

 

I saw you = Kez desa

I gave the pen to you = Kriche kezi dvi

 

You scared us = Mez vakhtsootsir

What is happening to us? = Inch ge badahi mezi?

 

And there is your Western Armenian lesson for the day. I hope I was helpful.

 

so... why didn't she teach you the cases of the language instead, which would explain and clerify everything (especially in 9th grade)?

 

btw, how do you say

վարդ էր բացվել պարտեզում...

իմ սիրտն, ա'՜խ, քեզ էր ուզում...

քեզ էր ուզու ու հուզվում...

սրտումս այս երգն էր հյուսվում...

in wa? according to wiki there is no locative case in wa... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Armenian_language#Nouns

[Harut]

The problem being...?

 

I'll admit the sentence was awkward to begin with in English, so its Armenian counterpart sounds equally awkward. But standing on its own, that is a grammatically correct sentence in Armenian.

 

yes, it's grammatically correct sentence, but it doesn't make sense... i've never heard an armenian sentence "Inch ge badahi mezi?" to mean "What is happening to us?", unless one thinks in english and then translates it into armenian...

 

but i guess if there are enough people using it (that phrase / sentence) then it becomes an accepted meaningful sentence... which is possible since we have quite many anglophone armenians...

[Gor-Gor]

so... why didn't she teach you the cases of the language instead, which would explain and clerify everything (especially in 9th grade)?

 

btw, how do you say

վարդ էր բացվել պարտեզում...

իմ սիրտն, ա'՜խ, քեզ էր ուզում...

քեզ էր ուզու ու հուզվում...

սրտումս այս երգն էր հյուսվում...

in wa? according to wiki there is no locative case in wa... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Armenian_language#Nouns

 

If by locative case, you mean words like "պարտեզում" and "սրտում"...

 

I think it's generally known that Western Armenian "lacks" this seventh noun form. Often, instead of one word, the idea is expressed in more than one word. For instance, "պարտէզին մէջ" and "սրտիս մէջ." Depending on the noun, a word other than "մէջ" will be used, such as in the case of "հրապարակին վրայ" (not "հրապարակին մէջ"). Finally, in some instances, no additional word may be used. For example, instead of "երկնքում," in WA it might be "երկնքին մէջ" or it might also be just "երկինքը" (as in "երկինքը աստղեր կը գտնուին" or "երկնքին մէջ աստղեր կը գտնուին").

 

As for your comment regarding my teacher's teaching methods: we learned how to conjugate verbs, decline nouns, and so forth in our elementary grammar classes in elementary school. We might have also learned the peculiar pronoun rules at issue here (indzi/zis), but I think the problem is that probably 90% of WA speakers, whether in Beirut, Istanbul, Los Angeles, or elsewhere, they simply never use "zis." So even when we learned it in grammar class, it seemed archaic and formal and something unncessary in daily speech (even with parents and elders, as they didn't use them either). In high school, our Armenian classes were Armenian literature classes -- the time for learning grammar has passed. So, our teacher just gave us a basic shorthand.

 

And it worked.

Edited May 19, 2007 by Gor-Gor

[Gor-Gor]

yes, it's grammatically correct sentence, but it doesn't make sense... i've never heard an armenian sentence "Inch ge badahi mezi?" to mean "What is happening to us?", unless one thinks in english and then translates it into armenian...

 

but i guess if there are enough people using it (that phrase / sentence) then it becomes an accepted meaningful sentence... which is possible since we have quite many anglophone armenians...

 

I have heard the sentence used. And not by Anglophone Armenians.

 

The whole structure of my post necessitated translating.

 

To have had a more authentic Armenian sentence, my English sentence would have to have had more substance. That is to say, it's not clear what the English sentence means, and so giving its Armenian counterpart could be done only through direct translation.

 

The whole point was to illustrate when to use "mezi" and it served its purpose.

[Էլիա]

Կոր-Կոր, ինչո՞ւ իմ անցեալ «փոստս» չես պատասխաներ: Եւ կրնա՞ս զիս օգնել հայ նախադասութեան կառոյցի հետ, որովհետեւ կը կարծեմ, որ իմ նախադասութիւններս կը սկսին անգլերէնին նմանիլ, փոխարէն հայերէն: Նաեւ, ուրիշ հարցումներ ունիմ «ինծի/զիս» պարագային համար - որմէկը՞ կը գործածես «հետ»ին համար (քու ձեռաձիրիդ համաձայն, «զիս»ը կը գործածուի, բայց ես միշտ «ինծի հետ» լսած եմ), եւ «To/For me = ինծի» օրէնքիդ համար, վստահ ե՞ս որ «ինծի»ն ուրիշ բառերու համար չի գործածուիր, բացի «To/For me»: Եթէ ուրիշ բառեր ալ կան, հաճիս ըսէ՛: Շնորհակալ եմ՝ օգնութեանդ համար:

[vahan79]

Just thought I'd add that I have very very rarely heard anyone use "zis" in WA and even though I know how to use it, I always use "-i" forms. I mean, think: Yes kezi ge sirem.

 

Also, in EA, people use "indzi" "kezi" etc., but I think it's considered grammatically incorrect. For example, some people say: "matitner-et indzi tvek" (give your pencils to me), but really, it should just be: "matitner-et indz tvek."

 

There are lots of things that are considered okay in WA, but are considred incorrect in Eastern, but why do we have it in EA then? I think it's because it is correct armenian that the russian standardization has tried to suppress (for lack of a better word). Like, for insance, when we say "yot" and "ut", some people say "yot-e" and "ut-e" (as in WA) and that is considered wrong, or as my grandma would say "gosht" in EA.

 

Oh, and in Eastern we use "-i mech", too, when things are smaller. For instance, you say "bazhaki mech joor ka", even though the "oom" could be used, too....if people didn't know.

 

What other random (but related) thoughts did I have to share...hmmm....doesn't that fact that sometimes EA armenians pronounce letters the same as WA (as exceptions) suggest that WA might be the "correct" (by that I mean, closer to original) form. For example: "oorpat" (friday), it is written with "ben." Or "mart" (person), it is written with "da." I know WHY we do it (has to do with sound combinations and what not) but doesn't it suggest something bigger...why not spell it with the other aspirated letter instead...

 

Last thing, does anyone have any comments about what pronoun form to use with "het"/"hed"...in EA, you can say "ko het" or "kez het", or "ko mot" or "kez mot"...I think the "ko het" is technically the more correct, but is "kez het" considered "wrong"????? What about in WA?

 

 

[vahan79]

 

Don't unnerve me = Mi chghaynatsner zis

 

 

Gor-Gor, are you my mom in disguise? She says this on an almost daily basis.

 

[Էլիա]

Doesn't that fact that sometimes EA armenians pronounce letters the same as WA (as exceptions) suggest that WA might be the "correct" (by that I mean, closer to original) form.

Վահան, հաճիս հասկցի՛ր որ արեւմտեան եւ արեւելեան հայերէնը հաւասարութեամբ տարբեր են հին հայերէնէն: Եթէ այս ցանցին մէջ կը կարդաս, կը տեսնես թէ ինք քան այս նիւթը բացատրուած է:

Last thing, does anyone have any comments about what pronoun form to use with "het"/"hed"...in EA, you can say "ko het" or "kez het", or "ko mot" or "kez mot"...I think the "ko het" is technically the more correct, but is "kez het" considered "wrong"????? What about in WA?

Եթէ իմ անցեալ «փոստիս» մէջ կը նայիս, կը տեսնես, որ ես մօտաւորապէս նոյն բանը հարցուցի՝ եթէ «քեզ» կամ «քեզի» կը գործածուի «հետ»ին համար: Բայց եթէ կ'ուզես գիտնաս որմէկը՞ ես միշտ լսած եմ, «քեզի»ն կ'ըլլայ:

Edited May 20, 2007 by Էլիա

[vahan79]

Վահան, հաճիս հասկցի՛ր որ արեւմտեան եւ արեւելեան հայերէնը հաւասարութեամբ տարբեր են հին հայերէնէն: Եթէ այս ցանցին մէջ կը կարդաս, կը տեսնես թէ ինք քան այս նիւթը բացատրուած է:

 

Եթէ իմ անցեալ «փոստիս» մէջ կը նայիս, կը տեսնես, որ ես մօտաւորապէս նոյն բանը հարցուցի՝ եթէ «քեզ» կամ «քեզի» կը գործածուի «հետ»ին համար: Բայց եթէ կ'ուզես գիտնաս որմէկը՞ ես միշտ լսած եմ, «քեզի»ն կ'ըլլայ:

 

Thanks! As for the first part, I guess I was just saying (in response to the Arpa camp) that you can't dismiss WA pronunciation so easily, and, that it's not completely true that EA pronounces letters is a consistent way (as in the examples I gave)...anyway, a minor point at best.

Edited May 21, 2007 by vahan79

[Էլիա]

Thanks! As for the first part, I guess I was just saying (in response to the Arpa camp) that you can't dismiss WA pronunciation so easily, and, that it's not completely true that EA pronounces letters is a consistent way (as in the examples I gave)...anyway, a minor point at best.

Ուրեմն, երկո՞ւ բարբառները գիտես: Այլ պէտք ունիմ երկու բարբառները սորվիլ, քանի որ անցեալ Շաբաթ՝ երբ ես Հ.Օ.Մ.ի խնճոյքի մը գացի իմ շաբաթօրեայ դպրոցիս հետ, խօսողը պարսկահայերէն կը խօսէր եւ բա՛ռ մը չհասկցայ:

[vartahoor]

Ուրեմն, երկո՞ւ բարբառները գիտես: Այլ պէտք ունիմ երկու բարբառները սորվիլ, քանի որ անցեալ Շաբաթ՝ երբ ես Հ.Օ.Մ.ի խնճոյքի մը գացի իմ շաբաթօրեայ դպրոցիս հետ, խօսողը պարսկահայերէն կը խօսէր եւ բա՛ռ մը չհասկցայ:

Ինչո՞ւ ուրեմն Լոս Անջելեսի Իրանահայ Միութեան շաբաթօրեայ դպրոցի յաճախողձ աշակերտները շատ հանգիստ կերպով կարղանում են հասկանալ արևմտահերենով խօսողներին: Արդեօք չէք կարծո՞ւմ որ ձեր ուսուցիչն է որ զլացել է ձեր դասերում արևելահայ գրականութիւն մտցնեի, ինչպէս որ մենք իրանահայերս ենք արել: Այդ խայտառակ կեցւածքը դեռ շարունակւում է բոլոր արևմտահա դպրոցներում և դա գալիս է միայն ուղուցչական կազմի տգիտութիւնից, որ մինչ այսօր չեն ուզում արևելահերէնը՝ մեծամասնութեան լեզուն, արևմտահայերէնի հետ միասին դասաւանդեն: Շամլեան դպրոցը Լոս Անջելեսում վերջիվերջոյ սկսեց արևելահայերենով դասընթացքներ ունենալ, որովհետև տեսան որ ծնողների մեծ մասը որոնք պարսկահայեր էին չուզեցին իրենց երեխաները սովորեն այն ինչ որ ցպրոցն էր ուզում պարտադրել աշակերտների մեծամասնութեանը, նոյնն է լինելու ուրիշ տեղերում և երբ այտ անգիտակից ուսուցիչները ուշքի գան, այն ժամանակ դու պիտի կարողանաս արևելահայերէնով տւած դասախօսութիւնները ըմբռնես և գուցէ հասկանաս որ արևմտահերէնի արտասանութիւնը բառիս բուն իմաստով սխալ է, թէպէտ անգիտակից մարդիկ յամառօրէն դա չեն ուզում ընդունել: ԱՐՓԱՆ և ՅՈՎՀԱՆՆէՍԸ այդ մասին ճշգրտօրէն են արտայայտւել:

Վարդահուր

Edited May 22, 2007 by vartahoor

[Էլիա]

Ինչո՞ւ ուրեմն Լոս Անջելեսի Իրանահամ Միութեան շաբաթօրեայ դպրոցի յաճախաղող աշակերտները շատ հանգիստ կերպով կարղանում են հասկանալ արևմտահերենով խօսողներին: Արդեօք չէք կարծո՞ւմ որ ձեր ուսուցիչն է որ զլացել է ձեր դասերում արևելահայ գրականութիւն մտցնեի, ինչպէս որ մենք իրանահայերս ենք արել: Այդ խայտառակ կեցւածքը դեռ շարունակւում է բոլոր արևմտահա դպրոցներում և դա գալիս է միայն ուղուցչական կազմի տգիտութիւնից, որ մինչ այսօր չեն ուզում արևելահերէնը՝ մեծամասնութեան լեզուն, արևմտահայերէնի հետ միասին դասաւանդեն: Շամլեան դպրոցը Լոսում վերջիվերջոյ սկսեց արևելահայերենով դասընթացքներ ունենալ, որովհետև տեսաւ որ ծնողների մեծ մասը որոնք պարսկահայեր էին չուզեցին իրենց երեխաները սովորեն այն ինչ որ իրենք ուզում էին պարտադրել աշակերտների մեծամասնութեանը, նոյնն է լինելու ուրիշ տեղեր և երբ այտ անգիտակից ուսուցիչները ուշքի գան, այն ժամանակ դու պիտի կարողանաս արևելահայերէնով տւած դասախօսութիւնները ըմբռնես և գուցէ հասկանաս որ արևմտահերէնի արտասանութիւնը բառիս բուն իմաստով սխալ է, թէպէտ անգիտակից մարդիկ յամառօրէն դա չեն ուզում ընդունել: ԱՐՓԱՆ և ՅՈՎՀԱՆՆէՍԸ այդ մասին ճշգրտօրէն արտայայտւել են:

Վարդահուր

Կը հասկնամ, որ բարկացած ես արեւմտեան հայերէնի դպրոցներուն տգիտութեամբ՝ արեւելեան հայերէնին հանդէպ, բայց հաճիս մի՛ կարծեր, որ ես, կամ ուրիշ աշակերտներ, կը համաձայնինք այս որոշումին հետ (ես չեմ համաձայնիր): Ինչպէս որ ըսի անցեալ «փոստիս» մէջ, գոնէ կ'ուզեմ հասկնալ արեւելեան հայերէնը, որ կարող ըլլամ՝ բոլոր հայերու հետ խօսելու: Եւ կրնա՞ս հաճիս բացատրել այս նախադասութեան բաժինին իմաստը՝ «...և գուցէ հասկանաս որ արևմտահերէնի արտասանութիւնը բառիս բուն իմաստով սխալ է, թէպէտ անգիտակից մարդիկ յամառօրէն դա չեն ուզում ընդունել»: Շնորհակալ եմ:

 

[vartahoor]

Կը հասկնամ, որ բարկացած ես արեւմտեան հայերէնի դպրոցներուն տգիտութեամբ՝ արեւելեան հայերէնին հանդէպ, բայց հաճիս մի՛ կարծեր, որ ես, կամ ուրիշ աշակերտներ, կը համաձայնինք այս որոշումին հետ (ես չեմ համաձայնիր): Ինչպէս որ ըսի անցեալ «փոստիս» մէջ, գոնէ կ'ուզեմ հասկնալ արեւելեան հայերէնը, որ կարող ըլլամ՝ բոլոր հայերու հետ խօսելու: Եւ կրնա՞ս հաճիս բացատրել այս նախադասութեան բաժինին իմաստը՝ «...և գուցէ հասկանաս որ արևմտահերէնի արտասանութիւնը բառիս բուն իմաստով սխալ է, թէպէտ անգիտակից մարդիկ յամառօրէն դա չեն ուզում ընդունել»: Շնորհակալ եմ:

َAnd may be you will understand that the WA pronunciation is categoriclly incorrect, although uninformed/misinformed individuals stubbornly do not want to accetp it.

FYI, I have posted three works by Daniel Varujan, works which I had read and recited some of them 55 years ago. Additionally I have also posted a "dictionary բառարան" for the words used by Varujan, since for the novice and even for those who profess that they master the WA, Varujan's vocabulary will need explanation. We were taught the WA literature at our schools and had to know most of these words.

Best,

Vartahoor

Edited May 22, 2007 by vartahoor

[Էլիա]

َAnd may be you will understand that the WA pronunciation is categoriclly incorrect, although uninformed/misinformed individuals stubbornly do not want to accetp it.

Բայց Շահանը չստուքե՞ց, որ երկու բարբառները հաւասարութեամբ տարբեր են հին հայերէնէն:

 

[vartahoor]

Բայց Շահանը չստուքե՞ց, որ երկու բարբառները հաւասարութեամբ տարբեր են հին հայերէնէն:

Շահանի ստուգաբանությունը ոչ մի արժէք չի ներկայացնում, որովհետև անգլերենով ոչ ոք կարող է հայերէն լեզւի մասին հնչիւնաբանութեան դասեր տայ, Շահանը դեռ շատ պիտի կարդայ մինչև հասկանայ որ 36 հատ մեր այբուբենի տառերը ամէն մէկը իր հնչիւնն ունի և դրանք իմ յօրինածները չեն, այլ Մեսրոպ Մաշտոցինը: Մեսրոպը որը երաժշտական լաւ ականջ ունէր, իզորւ տառատեսակներ չը նշնակեց որ այսօր Շահանի նմանները գան և իրենց կարծիքը որպէս օրէնք ներկայացնեն: Պօռոտախօսութիւնն էլ չափ ու սահման պիտի ունենայ և չափ ու սահմանից անցնելը, մարդուն վայել չի:

Վարդահուր

Յ.Գ. Էլիա, քո տառերի սխալ արտասանելը պատճառ է դառնում որ գրելու ժամանակ էլ բառերը սխալ գրես, ինչպէս վերևում գրել ես ստուքե՞ց որը պիտի լինի ստուգե՞ց:

Վ

Edited May 23, 2007 by vartahoor

[Էլիա]

Յ.Գ. Էլիա, քո տառերի սխալ արտասանելը պատճառ է դառնում որ գրելու ժամանակ էլ բառերը սխալ գրես, ինչպէս վերևում գրել ես ստուքե՞ց որը պիտի լինի ստուգե՞ց:

Վ

Ներողութիւն, բայց ես երբեմն ուղղագրութեան սխալներ կ'ընեմ, երբ արագօրէն կը մեքենագրեմ: Ես գիտեմ, որ «ստուգելը» «գ»ով կ'ուղղագրուի:

[Arpa]

Ներողութիւն, բայց ես երբեմն ուղղագրութեան սխալներ կ'ընեմ, երբ արագօրէն կը մեքենագրեմ: Ես գիտեմ, որ «ստուգելը» «գ»ով կ'ուղղագրուի:

Dear Elia and company, can I ask you an honest question?

First off. Your (nick) name is not էլիա ,but Եղիա, whatever the Jewish f** that may mean. Are you related to Yeghia/Allen Jendian of Fresno?

Is someone paying you to promote that so called WA ? What is your mission in life?Has someone or someones assigned you as champions and protectors of that so called WA? What is your purpose? That that so called WA, please allow me to once again call it turkahayeren become the official language of Yerevan? What will the benefit be?

At different times you and your teammates have indicated that you have a problem reading understanding the so called EA. If you mean you have a problem with language of Sevak then I am sorry to say that your mastery of the Armenian language is limited, in plain English ? You don‘t know the Armenian language.,eat or west. If you are saying that you have problem understanding the street language and slang of Yerevan, then I am with you as the latter is not the so called EA, the language of Sevak and Terian but it is russahayeren. Even I will have problem understanding russahayeren that is interspersed with Russian words foreign to me. I will have problem to fully understand parskahayeren that is interspersed with Persian words and expressions too. Just as a Yerevanite will have a problem understanding bolsahayeren interspersed with Turkish and beirutahayeren loaded with Arabic words and idiomatic expressions. In this case we are not talking about EA or WA , we are talking about turkahayeren, arabahayeren and russahayeren, and by extension …. amerikahayeren. Has any Yerevantsi ever say they don’t understand the language of Varuzhan? Oh! Yes! At times I also have trouble to fully understand Varuzhan’s and Siamanatos language , and have to look up the vocabulary section. That has nothing to do with EA or WA, it is simply a sign of our limited knowledge of the ARMENIAN language in its fullness.

The whole problem is not within those so called EA and WA but in the transliteration into Latin and English. Only then will the bankruptsy of that so called WA be revealed. Just imagine a name like Gagik/Գագիկ transliterated to Qaqig/Քաքիկ. Is that why western Armenians don’t name their sons “KAKIG”. You may not observed that, as we speak, the two vernaculars are coming together ever faster than any time in history. The WA -s are using the “oum” system more than ever just as the EA-s are using the k@” system. Are you following the trend, or are you still mired in that quagmire of Ejmiatsin and Antelias sh*t? As we speak, I am looking at one the latest issues of and American-Armenian weeklies written in English where the sad news of the demise of our national songbird is announced. Where it says -“Gohar Gasparian , the Armenian Niaghtingale is moutned”. Let me repeat - GOHAR GASPARIAN, not Kohar Kasbarian. Once again, here we are talking about transliteration and phonetics where all the sh*t hits the fan so to speak, as in Gagik and Qaqig. Why o I bring the example of Gohar Gasparian? It is because I have had along battle with the said weekly when they vehemently insisted that the then president of Armenia was Levon Der Bedrosian(LDB), not Levon Ter Petrosian(LTP). Some of the editors agreed with me but they had to succumb to the whims of the then editor in chief to whose ears Բ-Ben sounded like Փ-Pen and ԴDa sounded like Թ-Tho..

Some of our self appointed linguists have suggested that WA is the genuine heir of Grabar/ԳՐԱԲԱՌ Classical Armenian, not Qrapar/ՔՐԱՓԱՌ. One wonders where they get that impression. Read Grabar again and tell us where the LINE between east and west is. During the lifetime of our best Grabar writers, be they Khorenatsi or Shnorhali there was no LINE. It simply was HAYEREN. Not bolsahayeren, turkahayeren, yerevanhayeren or russhayeren, there was no straight vertical LINE between Gumrahayeren or Beirutahayeren. Yes. There were, as now, many diffused zigzag lines between one village and the other, but there never was that THICK LINE between Istanbul and Tiflis.

Dear Elia, please wake up and smell the sourj . That THICK LINE between the East and the West is rapidly THINNING. LEARN ARMENIAN, NOT EASTERN OR WESTERN , JUST PLAIN OLD ARMENIAN.. And when you do that , this whole thing of a line between EA and WA will be just a cruel joke imposed on us by Mehmet on one hand and Ivan on the other..

To end it all, please allow me to ask one more time- Dear Elia,who is paying you to champion and promote Zahle-Hayeren as opposed to Zangezour-Hayeren?

Edited May 23, 2007 by Arpa

[Էլիա]

Dear Elia and company, can I ask you an honest question?

First off. Your (nick) name is not էլիա ,but Եղիա, whatever the Jewish f** that may mean. Are you related to Yeghia/Allen Jendian of Fresno?

Is someone paying you to promote that so called WA ? What is your mission in life?Has someone or someones assigned you as champions and protectors of that so called WA? What is your purpose? That that so called WA, please allow me to once again call it turkahayeren become the official language of Yerevan? What will the benefit be?

At different times you and your teammates have indicated that you have a problem reading understanding the so called EA. If you mean you have a problem with language of Sevak then I am sorry to say that your mastery of the Armenian language is limited, in plain English ? You don‘t know the Armenian language.,eat or west. If you are saying that you have problem understanding the street language and slang of Yerevan, then I am with you as the latter is not the so called EA, the language of Sevak and Terian but it is russahayeren. Even I will have problem understanding russahayeren that is interspersed with Russian words foreign to me. I will have problem to fully understand parskahayeren that is interspersed with Persian words and expressions too. Just as a Yerevanite will have a problem understanding bolsahayeren interspersed with Turkish and beirutahayeren loaded with Arabic words and idiomatic expressions. In this case we are not talking about EA or WA , we are talking about turkahayeren, arabahayeren and russahayeren, and by extension …. amerikahayeren. Has any Yerevantsi ever say they don’t understand the language of Varuzhan? Oh! Yes! At times I also have trouble to fully understand Varuzhan’s and Siamanatos language , and have to look up the vocabulary section. That has nothing to do with EA or WA, it is simply a sign of our limited knowledge of the ARMENIAN language in its fullness.

The whole problem is not within those so called EA and WA but in the transliteration into Latin and English. Only then will the bankruptsy of that so called WA be revealed. Just imagine a name like Gagik/Գագիկ transliterated to Qaqig/Քաքիկ. Is that why western Armenians don’t name their sons “KAKIG”. You may not observed that, as we speak, the two vernaculars are coming together ever faster than any time in history. The WA -s are using the “oum” system more than ever just as the EA-s are using the k@” system. Are you following the trend, or are you still mired in that quagmire of Ejmiatsin and Antelias sh*t? As we speak, I am looking at one the latest issues of and American-Armenian weeklies written in English where the sad news of the demise of our national songbird is announced. Where it says -“Gohar Gasparian , the Armenian Niaghtingale is moutned”. Let me repeat - GOHAR GASPARIAN, not Kohar Kasbarian. Once again, here we are talking about transliteration and phonetics where all the sh*t hits the fan so to speak, as in Gagik and Qaqig. Why o I bring the example of Gohar Gasparian? It is because I have had along battle with the said weekly when they vehemently insisted that the then president of Armenia was Levon Der Bedrosian(LDB), not Levon Ter Petrosian(LTP). Some of the editors agreed with me but they had to succumb to the whims of the then editor in chief to whose ears Բ-Ben sounded like Փ-Pen and ԴDa sounded like Թ-Tho..

Some of our self appointed linguists have suggested that WA is the genuine heir of Grabar/Classical Armenian. One wonders where they get that impression. Read Grabar again and tell us where the LINE between east and west is. During the lifetime of our best Grabar writers, be they Khorenatsi or Shnorhali there was no LINE. It simply was HAYEREN. Not bolsahayeren, turkahayeren, yerevanhayeren or russhayeren, there was no straight vertical LINE between Gumrahayeren or Beirutahayeren. Yes. There were, as now, many diffused zigzag lines between one village and the other, but there never was that THICK LINE between Istanbul and Tiflis.

Dear Elia, please wake up and smell the sourj . That THICK LINE between the East and the West is rapidly THINNING. LEAARN ARMENIAN, NOT EASTERN OR WESTERN , JUST PLAIN OLD ARMENIAN.. And when you do that , this whole thing of a line between EA and WA will be just a cruel joke imposed on us by Mehmet on one hand and Ivan on the other..

To end it all, please allow me to ask one more time- Dear Elia,who is paying you to champion and promote Zahle-Hayeren as opposed to Zangezour-Hayeren?

My name is Elia, not Yeghia, ok? Therefore, it is spelled Էլիա in Armenian, ok? No, I am not related to the guy you're talking about. Why would I be related to someone who has the same "supposed first name" as me?

 

No one is paying me anything, and I'm not trying to promote WA, I'm just trying to prove that it's equal and should be treated equally to EA. And I didn't mean that I didn't understand EA... I meant Russahayeren (like you said). Don't worry, I understand EA fairly well. No, I am not trying to make WA the official dialect of Armenia, I'm just saying that it should be treated as fairly as EA. And will you please stop mixing up Turkahayeren with WA... they're different things! Turkahayeren is spoken by Armenian is Turkey, and WA is the dialect that was in the Western region of Armenia, before the Turks came into Anatolia/Western Asia. Anyway, I'm not talking about Turkahayeren being equal to EA, I'm talkinga about WA being equal to EA. Anyway, you say that I should learn Armenian, not Eastern or Western. Are you referring to Classical Armenian or Krapar or what?

Edited May 23, 2007 by Էլիա

[Armenak]

http://www.hyeetch.nareg.com.au/religion/large/mesrob.JPG

 

"Hisus Christos, what have I done?"

[vartahoor]

My name is Elia, not Yeghia, ok? Therefore, it is spelled Էլիա in Armenian, ok? No, I am not related to the guy you're talking about. Why would I be related to someone who has the same "supposed first name" as me?

 

No one is paying me anything, and I'm not trying to promote WA, I'm just trying to prove that it's equal and should be treated equally to EA. And I didn't mean that I didn't understand EA... I meant Russahayeren (like you said). Don't worry, I understand EA fairly well. No, I am not trying to make WA the official dialect of Armenia, I'm just saying that it should be treated as fairly as EA. And will you please stop mixing up Turkahayeren with WA... they're different things! Turkahayeren is spoken by Armenian is Turkey, and WA is the dialect that was in the Western region of Armenia, before the Turks came into Anatolia/Western Asia. Anyway, I'm not talking about Turkahayeren being equal to EA, I'm talkinga about WA being equal to EA. Anyway, you say that I should learn Armenian, not Eastern or Western. Are you referring to Classical Armenian or Krapar or what?

 

[Arpa]

My name is Elia, not Yeghia, ok? Therefore, it is spelled Էլիա in Armenian, ok? No, I am not related to the guy you're talking about. Why would I be related to someone who has the same "supposed first name" as me?

 

No one is paying me anything, and I'm not trying to promote WA, I'm just trying to prove that it's equal and should be treated equally to EA. And I didn't mean that I didn't understand EA... I meant Russahayeren (like you said). Don't worry, I understand EA fairly well. No, I am not trying to make WA the official dialect of Armenia, I'm just saying that it should be treated as fairly as EA. And will you please stop mixing up Turkahayeren with WA... they're different things! Turkahayeren is spoken by Armenian is Turkey, and WA is the dialect that was in the Western region of Armenia, before the Turks came into Anatolia/Western Asia. Anyway, I'm not talking about Turkahayeren being equal to EA, I'm talkinga about WA being equal to EA. Anyway, you say that I should learn Armenian, not Eastern or Western. Are you referring to Classical Armenian or Krapar or what?

SO!!!

Where is the LINE?

Is it because some of us spell it as GRABAR and others QRAPAR?

And, as you say, that no one is paying you, then why are you drawing such a THICK LINE bwtween EA and WA?

Please show us where that THICK LINE is

And please, allow me to say this once again. Your so called WA, Bolsahayeren, Turkahayeren is full of (Turkish) kaka.

Edited May 23, 2007 by Arpa

[Armenak]

Arpa, you're always so hostile toward WA and its speakers, but you sure like to promote WA writers in the literature section.

[Zartonk]

"Hisus Christos, what have I done?"

 

"You, my son, have given an eternal voice to a people that, albeit ancient and cultured, prefer to continue picking at their differences instead of appreciating each other's heritage and SIMILARITY.

 

Best

 

Hisus Christos"

 

 

 

[Arpa]

Arpa, you're always so hostile toward WA and its speakers, but you sure like to promote WA writers in the literature section.

Hostile?

You ain't seen not'n yet!

To know what hostility is please read the posts by Elia, GorGor and Shahan.

I, as one born and raised in the so called WA environment, have every right to be hostile when the above insult and murder our saints like Varuzhan and company, they insult and murder our most sacred Saint Mashtots suggesting that he was a moron for designing several variants of many of our consonants if those were to sound the same. They insult the memory of St. Mesrop when they insist that our teaching our children the AyP Pen Qim Ta. Hostility is when our above friends suggest that Istanbul Armenian, I call it turkahayeren is the more civilized and correct one and that EA is uncivilized peasant language. When they suggest that WA is the legitimate heir to Grabar. When GorGor insists that “gor” is proper Armenian. Please show us where and when did Varuzhan, our god of western Armenian used the term.

I have every right to be hostile when our sacred language of the likes of Siamanto is dragged down the streets of Beirut and Glendale. When the above insist that WA is the correct one yet, in their deafness don’t even know the difference between “hajogh/successful” and “hachogh/barking”, between “haraj/forward” and “harach/sigh”, don’t know the difference between “door/door” and “toor/chisel”.between “gar/lamb” and qar/stone”.

Zorn asem zorn khostovanem!!

I have said this before. The way the above are murdering and burying our language they need nobody’s help. They are doing an excellent job.

Further. Has any of the above posted any literary gems from our WA geniuses? Do they read the wonderful languages of Varuzhan, Siamanto, Otian, Tekeyan or Chobanian, to mention a few. Or is their idea of WA is that Turk Armenian as spoken in the gutters of Bourj Hammoud?

If all those consonants were meant to sound the same, then why does Varuzhan write;

Գլխեբաց եմ ու բոպիկ

Արտերուն մէջ թափառիկ

And not;

Քլխեփաձ եմ ու փօբիգ

Արդերուն մեճ դաբառիգ

 

ՀՈՒՆՁՔ ԿԸ ԺՈՂՎԵՄ…

 

Հունձք կը ժողվեմ մանգաղով,

–Լուսնակը յարս է–

Ակոս ակոս ման գալով,

–Սիրածս հարս է:

 

Գլխեբաց եմ ու բոպիկ,

–Անո՜ւշ են հովեր–

Արտերուն մեջ թափառիկ,

–Մազե՜րս են ծովեր:

 

Ցորեն, կակաչ, կարոտով,

–Կաքավը կու լա–

Կապեցի մե՛կ նարոտով,

–Ձեռքերն են հինա:

Edited May 23, 2007 by Arpa

[vahan79]

Dear Elia, please wake up and smell the sourj .

 

Don't you mean "sourch" with "ճ" ;-) At least be consistent.