Genocide Song "adanayi Voghpe" Distorted

[Anoushik]

ok  we can  find a  way  to get even :")  and on top

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What do you mean?

[Dave]

If anyone wants ''Adanayi Voghpe'' in Armenian, here's the Karnig Sarkissian version...

 

Adanayi Voghpe

(This one is a bit Westernized, don't you think?)

 

 

from http://jdemirdjian.com/Pages/armenian_songs_%20PAGE_%205.htm

 

 

I can't really imagine Seden Gurel listening to Karnig Sarkissian to inspire herself. Does anyone have other versions?

[nairi]

It's the first song on this album, sung by Agapi Ghazarian:

 

http://www.armenianmusic.com/view.cfm/hurl...ongs-of-Armenia

[Siamanto]

anoushik, Dave, MosJan:

Thanks for the links!

 

anoushik,

Recently, I bought "The Music of Armenia:" a CD collection. The second volume is dedicated to the Medieval Armenian Music (8th-11th centuries)

I was extremely pleased by the quality of the Music.

The booklet says:

"There are 1166 sharakanner...collected in a book called Sharakanots. This book reached its present form sometime around the thirteenth century, but the origins of the music date to the very beginning of Christian times in Armenia."

That means that there may exist other CDs or books about Armenian Medieval Music. If you know any, please let me know, Thanks!

 

Also, last year - as part of the 24 April celebrations - I had the pleasure to listen to Anoush Barclay perform Armenian Medieval Music, accompanied by the Hye Ensemble.

See the Music section at http://naregatsi.org/

 

Thanks.

Siamanto.

[Dave]

OK, that's nice. What does mugham have to do with Armenians?

 

I actually just looked up a bit online and (I don't really know if this belongs in this thread anymore)

 

http://www.mugham.org/Jeff/whats_mugham.htm

 

Some samples

http://www.mugham.org/Audio/audio.htm

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I think it has more to do with Armenians, than with people originating from Central Asia.

 

http://www.maqamworld.com/

According to this site, the Maqam is a style played on an instrument called 'Ud. Other sites claim that the 'Ud existed before the arabs, to people such as Ancient Egyptians or Persians (if so, Armenians probably got a hold of it before the Turks, or even the Arabs did)

Edited January 16, 2005 by Dave

[wh00t]

If anyone wants ''Adanayi Voghpe'' in Armenian, here's the Karnig Sarkissian version...

 

Adanayi Voghpe

(This one is a bit Westernized, don't you think?)

from http://jdemirdjian.com/Pages/armenian_songs_%20PAGE_%205.htm

I can't really imagine Seden Gurel listening to Karnig Sarkissian to inspire herself.  Does anyone have other versions?

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Thanks for this, though at the risk of being chided, I am preferring the Turkish version to Sarkissian's. Though I'm sure there are better renditions.

[DominO123]

Though I'm sure there are better renditions.

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Should be, since I find that version "sabotate" the music.

Edited January 16, 2005 by Fadix

[Anoushik]

I think it has more to do with Armenians, than with people originating from Central Asia. 

 

http://www.maqamworld.com/

According to this site, the Maqam is a style played on an instrument called 'Ud. Other sites claim that the 'Ud existed before the arabs, to people such as Ancient Egyptians or Persians (if so, Armenians probably got a hold of it before the Turks, or even the Arabs did)

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It'd be very interesting to research the music of the ancient Armenians and whether or not their singing style resembled the singing style of the Persians. I tend to think not really because the Persian culture and its people are so different from the Armenians - just the fact that one people became Christians and the other eventually became Muslims tells a lot about the people and culture. And because music is directly related to culture I think there must have been tremendous differences between the music of this two nations... A very interesting research subject.

[Siamanto]

It'd be very interesting to research the music of the ancient Armenians and whether or not their singing style resembled the singing style of the Persians. I tend to think not really because the Persian culture and its people are so different from the Armenians - just the fact that one people became Christians and the other eventually became Muslims tells a lot about the people and culture. And because music is directly related to  culture I think there must have been tremendous differences between the music of this two nations... A very interesting research subject.

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The form of Medieval Armenian Music that I know has little in common with the Mugham music found on the links that you have provided!

But how much do we know about the popular - or non written - Music?

Edited January 17, 2005 by Siamanto

[Dave]

It'd be very interesting to research the music of the ancient Armenians and whether or not their singing style resembled the singing style of the Persians. I tend to think not really because the Persian culture and its people are so different from the Armenians - just the fact that one people became Christians and the other eventually became Muslims tells a lot about the people and culture. And because music is directly related to culture I think there must have been tremendous differences between the music of this two nations... A very interesting research subject.

 

Pre-Christian Armenian culture was obviously much more similar to Persian culture before the invention of the Armenian alphabet, and before Christianity. One of the things that might have stopped the Arabs to convert us was Armenia's mountainous landscape (Persia was much more accessible) and the rebeliousness of the Armenians.

 

The only thing I know about Ancient Armenian music is that it was similar to sharagans, which was inspired from pagan music.

 

And I'd imagine that popular Armenian music of those days was a mix of Persian and to some extent, Greek.

[Anoushik]

But how much do we know about the popular - or non written - Music?

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That's what I'd be interested to know

[danieldecker]

Greetings!!!

 

I was just doing a little web surfing and discovered this forum. As my name has been mentioned in the thread, I thought I would reply. I am the author of the lyrics to the song Adana which was mentioned by a previous poster. The music was composed by Armenian composer Ara Gevorgian. In the lyrics, I set out to tell the story of the genocide. My wife is Armenian and I am a Christian. I have been deeply moved and affected by the genocide and have been to Armenia 5 times so far. I am not a historian or a theologian, just a man who has come to care about the Armenian people. I encourage you to check the song out and hope it will a blessing to you.

 

Regards,

Daniel Decker

 

 

 

ok  i'll  work on it

did  find some  nice staff  wan searching 

http://www.danieldecker.com/My_Offering.html

Daniel Decker

 

Adana - This is probably the most difficult set of lyrics I have ever written. I wrestled with these words for almost a full year before

they finally came together. Composed with noted Armenian composer Ara Gevorgian, this song features the Armenian Philharmonic,

as well as many native Armenian instruments. I set out to tell the story of a forgotten, yet significant event in Christian history, the

Armenian Genocide. My prayer is that these words will serve as a reminder to those who are unfamiliar with these events, and a

source of healing to the people of Armenia who have endured so much as a result of this tragedy. This song is dedicated to Christians

around the world that have suffered for the cause of Christ

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[MosJan]

Welcoem to Hye Forum

[Azat]

Welcome to the board Daniel. is there a place where we can hear a sample of the song even in a low quality format in case you are worried about people coping the song?

[Azat]

Never mind I found it. thanks

http://www.danieldecker.com/Listen.html

[danieldecker]

The sample on my website is just a portion of the 7 minute song. The full song begins with a narrated portion describing some of the details of the genocide. I am hoping this song will raise awareness about the genocide and maybe in some small way lead to wider recognition of this tragedy.

 

A few days ago, I sang the song in Los Angeles in two Armenian churches. There were many in the audience who lost family members during the genocide. As I was singing, I wanted to weep everytime I looked at someone in the audience. I finally had to finish the song with my eyes closed.

 

I am beginning to put together a multimedia presentation to show in the background while I am singing the song in the future. I hope to show images of Armenia, as well as scenes of the genocide. The song is rather intense, but i feel the message needs to be heard.

 

Never mind I found it.  thanks

http://www.danieldecker.com/Listen.html

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Edited January 18, 2005 by danieldecker

[ED]

Daniel, I'm proud and thankfull,

 

welocome to Hyeforum

[MSHAK]

Էս հայեր են հա իբր հավաքված?

 

, հայության ջարդին նվիրված երգի տակ ապրիլի 24-ին թուրքական ալիքով պորտապար պարելը համեմատում եք Լոս Անջելեսի տափարակ հայանուն թուրքամոլության հետ?

 

Hey Domino the self-proclaimed Armenian, if Hovhanissian or your favorite Suny does not include the year of 1909 as a year of genocide in the books, it does not give you the right to scream that Adana's massacre was not a part of the Armenian Genocide.

 

What do you know about the Armenian Genocide huhe? Who gives you the right to scream on a massacre of 30,000 people? Have you read the genocide convention? Do you actaually speak Armenian?

 

Enough!!!!!!!! We are speaking about a song devoted to the massacres of 30,000 innocent people "converted" to a love-song and played on Turkish channels on April 24 with a belly-dance and you, my professors, speak of Turkish songs performed by "Armenians."

 

You don't respect yourselves and you expect the Turks to respect you?

 

 

 

Please don't use insulting words/Sasun

Edited January 18, 2005 by Sasun

[Stormig]

What do you know about the Armenian Genocide huhe?

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[Anoushik]

Greetings!!!

 

I was just doing a little web surfing and discovered this forum. As my name has been mentioned in the thread, I thought I would reply. I am the author of the lyrics to the song Adana which was mentioned by a previous poster. The music was composed by Armenian composer Ara Gevorgian.  In the lyrics, I set out to tell the story of the genocide. My wife is Armenian and I am a Christian.  I have been deeply moved and affected by the genocide and have been to Armenia 5 times so far.  I am not a  historian or a theologian, just a man who has come to care about the Armenian people.  I encourage you to check the song out and hope it will a blessing to you.

 

Regards,

Daniel Decker

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Nice to meet you here Daniel

[Proud EXPAT]

This topic about this recording has been so blown out of proportion that I was waiting to see/hear the most disgraceful song, disrespecting our Armenian race.

 

I saw the video, heard the song. Listening to it and seeing it from an unbiased way, all I can say is that it did nothing for me. It was boring.

 

But why is almost every Armenian freaking out? Just like someone else mentioned, Armenians listening to Turkish, Arabic and rabiz is more disgusting.

 

Let's see how many of our artists (or so called artists) will come up with this year in commemortion of the Genocide anniversary.

 

Ara Gevorgian was asked to redo Adana, and frankly it sucks like the rest of his out of date recordings.

[DominO123]

Էս հայեր են հա իբր հավաքված?

 

, հայության ջարդին նվիրված երգի տակ ապրիլի 24-ին թուրքական ալիքով պորտապար պարելը համեմատում եք Լոս Անջելեսի տափարակ հայանուն թուրքամոլության հետ?

 

Hey Domino the self-proclaimed Armenian, if Hovhanissian or your favorite Suny does not include the year of 1909 as a year of genocide in the books, it does not give you the right to scream that  Adana's massacre was not a part of the Armenian Genocide.

 

What do you know about the Armenian Genocide huhe? Who gives you the right to scream on a massacre of 30,000 people? Have you read the genocide convention? Do you actaually speak Armenian?

 

Enough!!!!!!!! We are speaking about a song devoted to the massacres of 30,000 innocent people "converted" to a love-song and played on Turkish channels on April 24 with a belly-dance and you, my professors, speak of Turkish songs performed by "Armenians."

 

You don't respect yourselves and you expect the Turks to respect you?

 

Please don't use insulting words/Sasun

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Adana might be called genocide if using the genocide convention, but I use it as Lemkin has intended it to be used, or more as it might be called from the restrictive term. I refuse to compare any events with what happened in 1915, and I don't see how anyone would do that.

 

Another problem with Adana, is that there are no clear evidences it has been planned by any authorities... the reports from the Italian ship stationed on the sea, that has witnessed it, and from the memoirs of some Turkish officials, tell us more, of a revolt from the suporters of the government that has been just reversed, that could not accept that Armenians are given more right during Armenian manifestations asking the new government to keep their promesses.

 

The Armenian genocide is very different, it is a centry planned and executed program of mass extermination, that has gone as far as the Persian Armenian province. The Armenian genocide is a unique moment in the Armenian history, not any other recorded events in the history of Armenia could be comparable to it.

 

There has been m,any massacres, but one genocide.

 

On the other hand, Adana was a holocaust(the first time this term was really used for peoples burned in mass, was to discribe what happened in Adana).

 

The Italian ship witnessed Armenians being locked in Churchs and burned to death. Holocaust is the burning by fire, and this is why the event of Adana is called the Adana Holocaust, and the events of 1915, and what followed, the Armenian Genocide, or Armenocide.

 

I will stick to that.

 

The massacres of 1894-1896

The Adana Holocaust

The Armenian genocide

 

The other events not listed here were massacres or government excesses.

 

Another note, I do not call an attempt of genocide a genocide, for me a genocide should be successfuly executed to be called a genocide.

 

 

Be happy that I have even bothered answering you.

Edited January 20, 2005 by Fadix

[MSHAK]

Adana might be called genocide if using the genocide convention, but I use it as Lemkin has intended it to be used, or more as it might be called from the restrictive term. I refuse to compare any events with what happened in 1915, and I don't see how anyone would do that.

 

Another problem with Adana, is that there are no clear evidences it has been planned by any authorities... the reports from the Italian ship stationed on the sea, that has witnessed it, and from the memoirs of some Turkish officials, tell us more, of a revolt from the suporters of the government that has been just reversed, that could not accept that Armenians are given more right during Armenian manifestations asking the new government to keep their promesses.

 

The Armenian genocide is very different, it is a centry planned and executed program of mass extermination, that has gone as far as the Persian Armenian province. The Armenian genocide is a unique moment in the Armenian history, not any other recorded events in the history of Armenia could be comparable to it.

 

There has been m,any massacres, but one genocide.

 

On the other hand, Adana was a holocaust(the first time this term was really used for peoples burned in mass, was to discribe what happened in Adana).

 

The Italian ship witnessed Armenians being locked in Churchs and burned to death. Holocaust is the burning by fire, and this is why the event of Adana is called the Adana Holocaust, and the events of 1915, and what followed, the Armenian Genocide, or Armenocide.

 

I will stick to that.

 

The massacres of 1894-1896

The Adana Holocaust

The Armenian genocide

 

The other events not listed here were massacres or government excesses.

 

Another note, I do not call an attempt of genocide a genocide, for me a genocide should be successfuly executed to be called a genocide.

Be happy that I have even bothered answering you.

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Domino as you know the term genocide was coined by Raphael Lemkin and he was one of those who wrote the convention. Therefore, we have to accept genocide as it is described by international laws.

 

Domino, do you imagine how big is 30, 000?

 

30, 000 people where sluaghtered and burnt in a few days and you say that "there are no clear evidences it has been planned by any authorities"?

 

I dont think it is that easy to kill 30,000 people. Do you think of a way to slaughter 30,000 without planning?

 

If even Adana's holocoust was not the part of the Genocide, the song "Adana Lamentation" is accepted as Genocide song.

[DominO123]

Domino as you know the term genocide was coined by Raphael Lemkin and he was one of those who wrote the convention. Therefore, we have to accept genocide as it is described by international laws.

 

Domino, do you imagine how big is 30, 000?

 

30, 000 people where sluaghtered and burnt in a few days and you say that "there are no clear evidences it has been planned by any authorities"?

 

I dont think it is that easy to kill 30,000 people. Do you think of a way to slaughter 30,000 without planning?

 

If even Adana's holocoust was not the part of the Genocide, the song "Adana Lamentation" is accepted as Genocide song.

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There are ample of evidences linking the government with the massacres in 1915... the about 20 major concentration camps in the desert, the way relief organisations access was blocked, the way orphans were treated, the way the members of the special organisation were formed... there are evidences in German, Turkish sources etc.

 

In the cases of Adana, there is no clear evidences linking the government with what happened, and I would not find it logic that just soon after the Young-Turk took power, and supported Armenian organisations at that time, they will decide right away, to murdet people like this. It defy common sense.

 

And, yes! it was quite possible that such a massacre happened without the governments implication, given that Abdhul Hamids supporters were not lacking at all, and that they had a very good influence, even in the general population.

 

A cases of an implication should be supported, like any claims, this is what gives weight to arguments, we should not leave the denialist side arguments to counterattack, so every points that is brought should be supported.

 

I am ready to chance my mind, if evidences are brought, linking the government with what happened in Adana.

 

About genocide, the modern conception was not as Lemkin intended it, I wrote an essay that is somewhere in the genocide section, run a search on Lemkin, and you may end up there. Lemkin had more in mind the restrictive term, because from the UN convention, any massacres could be interpreted as a genocide...,

 

By calling what happened in Adana in genocide, we are trying to compare it with what happened in 1915, and obviously, it can't. Adana has been called Holocaust for very long time, even before the Armenian genocide, it has its name, and it is the Adana Holocaust, I think only the term Holocaust is enought strong to show the intensity of the horrors.

[SUN]

I would like to express my point of you about this matter, because I have heard and read much about how Armenians react to this reality. Everyone just complains and writes some not HONORABLE words, only few people try to understand why an Armenian musician has done that, and first of all who is that Armenian musician. But its not fair, I think, we must not judge about the matter from one side, there are so many Armenian songs, that are played by Turkish musicians and not at least identifying the song as Armenian, but even considering it as a Turkish one. There are many examples of such things! I am sure, that not many Armenians know who is that musician that has done it, and why he has done that, I have Mr. Shahrikian's Armenian Music Group's 2 CDs, where are Armenian folk songs, when I first listened to it I was really shoked, I just couldn't believe that it is possible to make a CD with Armenian songs in TURKEY. Well, all I wanted to say is that we must not judge, without knowing the all aspects of the matter (in the CD of that Turkish singer, is written that the song is armennian, and more, that it is devoted to "Adana's mascaras", and what do you think, if the duduk part would have played a Turkish musician, would they write, that it is an Armenian song?!!! ).

Just remember we all are Armenians, and the only thing that is keeping us together in other country (especially in the enemy country) is our CULTURE, and from my point of view, considering the whole work that Mr. Shahrikian has done for so many years in the Armenian community in Turkey, for keeping Armenian songs alive, I think we must, at least, try to understand his reasons and not judge!!!!!!!! [/size][/size]

 

PS. I'd like to add few words about this forum, I think you should keep the censure in your forum, and not allow to write such unacceptable words (even in an Azerbaijani forum, is not allowed to say an ugly phrase or even word, towards AN ARMENIAN!!! I thought Armenians are more intelligent than ............!!!!!!!)