Sip

If he is here to enjoy the freedom of speech and to use it to insult me, at the very least he should be able to take insults back. That is the American way. Every chance he gets he insults people who don't think the same as he does. And we are supposed to "accept" this because it's the American way? Come on now. The ironey is, Shahan bashes America and Americans yet he wants his opinion respected under the freedoms this country provides. I would love to see him go to Iran and say similar things about Iran. They would cut off his balls Yah the US is a horrible place to live ... just so so horrible.

Yah those tiny small little towns. Yet there are so many of them! Trust me, this is still a largly "Christian" population in the US even though it will be hard to find them in along the coasts.

Oh now it's not THAT great

What that a street dog lives better in Lebannon than we in the US? Oh yah this is so true it is making Anoushik and I very angry at you.

No problem other than utter hypocrisy. But I wouldn't expect a behavior any less than "biting the hand that feed you" from those who admire the lives of street dogs in Lebanon. Pathetic.

First off, I find it amazing how people leave out "hard work" when refering to the American culture. To most of the rest of the world, Americans are assumed to drink lates, have sex, shoot guns, and do drugs all day. I know the rest of the world doesn't want to admit it, but in general, the Americans are VERY hard working people. I also think you really need to get out of your Gay Area liberal lands and travel a bit in the US. I would suggest taking a drive from maybe Denver to Detroit (don't stray too far south at first or you might get a shock in how far off you really are about "Americans"). Just experience for yourself how amazingly vast this country is, and how hard the people it in work. How little they give a damn about your "Zion" or the rest of the world. You mention the corporations and the media (not surprising as that is all you see in a big urban area), but you somehow ignore the large farming and agricultural (e.g. corn) segments that litterly stretch for thousands of miles. "Christianity" is hardly found in the US? Yah maybe in San Francisco. But San Francisco is not "US".

Whatever the reason, as long as you are here, at least admit you are here by choice ... if you or your dad really loved living like a street dog in Lebanon, I highly doubt you would choose to live here. As far as your "padjarner" to be here, I couldn't care less. The fact is YOU ARE HERE in the US. Show some respect while you enjoy life here.

I think this summarized it best.

Dude, why don't you just move then? How can you sit on your ass in comfortable US and bad mouth it so much? Just leave already. Go and live like the street dogs you (or your dad) are so fond of. I mean really. But I really hope you stop watching the US tv. You seem to be far too obsessed with it. By the way, I will still take CNN any day of the week over your beloved Al Jazeerah. At least the commercials on CNN are good.

Basic fact of the matter remains, that religion has often been a huge hinderance to real progress. Just look in the past 200 years and you will see religion had very little to do with our most profound break throughs and advancements. If it weren't for superstitions, false beliefs, and man made religions, I think we would have been far far far more advanced than we are today. More importantly, there would have been far fewer conflicts if people hadn't made all these different (and at times conflicting) assumptions and then defined them to be true and then decided to die to defend those "beliefs".

It is over, move on. The race thing may or may not be an issue but it is nothing either of you can change. If he in fact cares for you and wants to be with you, he will do everything in his power to be with you. Since he is not interested, it's time to move on

I think you two should have sex

I know exactly what you mean. There are far too many people in the world today killing in the name of Allah and Jesus.

Sassun, I am not saying the US doesn't have problems. It does. But at least its system is designed to protect it's members. If a woman is beaten by anyone, including her husband, she can get a lawyer and sue. She can get a police order to keep the abuser away. Does abuse still go on? Sure. But it is not "allowed" under the system. Of course I will be the first to admit the system in the us is not perfect. But comared to the system in Iran, it is better. According to whom? According to me. I can't speak for anyone else.

It is when the ruling body of a country interprets the religion to that end.

Sassun, how often is a wife beaten or raped by her husband in Iran? Do you know? Are those kinds of statistics even available?

Vahan, I do understand English is not his first language but I agree with you that I should try to be more clear. However, with him, it has been the case where he claims certain things about his religion and says non Arabic speakers and those who haven't read the Quran do not understand. Well, there are certain things I do understand very well (like the Hijab not being a choice in Islam) and when he tries to say things like "Oh in Islam, Hijab is a choice", I get curious to try to see where he is getting this info from ... is he saying it because of a language problem, is he saying it to glorify Islam to more than just the basics (which does NOT allow for such more modern types of personal freedoms), or is he simply confused. After these long discussions, I don't think the language problem is the case. He has made a number of grand claims about Islam than when you really dig down and grill him with detailed questions, you will realize are not at all what he claims. I don't have the energy nor the desire to do it .. but I am hoping someone will pull out his real views on how real Islam views women (not what he might say in a fluffy post).

That is the worst way someone has ever admitted there are full of shit. But good enough. At least you admitted it again. Sassun, I think you have a lot of soul searching to do. Your thinking is so confused and warped, that it is impossible to have any meaningful dialog with you. I really suggest you spend some time and analyze what it is you really believe. It's ok to be confused. I will not hold this against you. But I hope you realize it and spend some considerable amount of time figureing things out. If you believe in Islam, then fine. But at least be honest with yourself and others in what exactly it is you believe. This has been a perfect example. It is obvious you do not consider anyone who chooses to not wear a hijab a "real" (non paper) muslim. But you keep trying to fluff it up and say things like "oh but she has a choice" ... This is why people don't like you. This is why people will push you away. When you say 2 faced things. When you are not completely honest and when you try to somehow make yourself seem different than what you really are. Anyway, I hope this has been a learning experience for you. If not, I hope ONE day you will realize what just went on here.

No I am not messing with your right to consider her anything. I want you to be honest and say it. You do NOT consider her a muslim if she doesn't wear Hijab. You do NOT consider that she has a choice if she wants to be a muslim. Come on now, we got there before, you can get there again, you can do it ... say it.

Ssssun, from your post you just linked: Where is teh choice?

No no no no... you have said if she removes the Hijab she is not muslim in your eyes. Where is the choice? If she removes it, she is not muslim in your eyes. Where is the choice? If she removes it, she is not muslim in your eyes ... WHERE is the choice?

Jam mam chem haskanum Sassun, you still haven't replied. I asked you a very straight forward question. Which of those quotes of yours that I have quotes are wrong? You have said you (and Islam) consider Hijab to be a requirement. So where is the choice part (as far as the Hijab is concerned)? How can one be a "muslim" and not wear a hijab? Come on dude, spill it. You can't claim something is both a choice and a requirement. You know I'm not going to let this go. At least on this point you HAVE to admit you are full of shit.

Those are YOUR quotes above. Tell me which of YOUR quotes are wrong. None of those quotes say "hijab is a choice". They all say Hijab is a requirement.

I will refresh your memory sir: and most importantly (where you slipped up ): You are still going to say you didn't say it? It's right there, plain and simple. Yes, I am definitely seeing your name attached to what I am reading. And what I am reading is you saying over and over that Hijab is a requirement in Islam and that requirements in Islam cannot be modified like buffets. Are you really trying to back out of what you have said? That would be VERY very very lame after wasting all this time trying to "discuss" your beliefs.

I don't know if you read what went on earlier but basically it started off as him claiming the "hijab" is a choice for the woman. After about a zillion back and forths, he finally admitted that the Hijab in fact is not a choice under Islam. I would love to see how long it will take for him to finally admit what you are trying to do. It's like pulling teeth with him. He will eventually admit it if you lead him down the right series of questions. But it takes a loooooooong time and I don't really know if it's worth it.