Arpa

Thank you Zartonk for this very interesting post. I have to read it in full before I can comment. Zartonk and everyone please be kind to cite the site so we may have a better idea of the purpose and the agenda of the writers. I found where this particular essay comes from, I.e from a so called Armenian Aryan site. Does it matter? Maybe!!! http://www.armenianaryans.com/AC/showthread.php5?t=343

ARMENIAN FOOD Fact, Fiction & Folklore http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51z7vt1GRAL._SS500_.jpg A book. (Please abide with me, bear with me [Hi Yervant/Bearvant ]. You may ask- "What? Another thread about "FOOD"? We know that the subject of “food” has been discussed under many topics, yet I feel the book in question opens a whole novel perspective on the subject, almost but not quite an answer to my query about the “Archeology of Food”. My ardent wish is that our historians would abstain from using foreign words for our delicacies and tell us what the Armenian terms are.) It seems as an answer to my query about Archeology of Food I received this book in a package of my Christmas present. Apparently the book has been originally published in the Armenian language, the one I have is in English. The book is a collaborative endeavor between a married couple Irina born in Armenia and her American born husband David. They have researched at the National Library in Yerevan, as well as interviewed local citizens, be they city dwellers or village peasants. The title of the book Armenian Food- Facts, Fiction and Folklore, 245 pages has many delectable tidbits as well as valuable historical and cultural facts. Many highly interesting trivia some of which I knew and many I did not. My only regret is that they should have consulted me before the inal edit, as I have spotted quite a few errors, omissions, misinterpretations etc. be they etymological, typographical ,transliteratory or mere translation. One of many good features of book is, contrary to the Armenian custom thetable of contents is at the beginning of the book, rather than at the end, better yet there is a Word Index at the end showing where certain words and names have been written***. We will get back to all the good stuff, the delicious tidbits , but let me illustrate what I mean by misprints, misinterpretations and mistranslations. One other good feature is a glossary/dictionary, yet the first ever entry is a blatant error where “apukht” is translated as “smoked”, it may not be an altogether error,** depending on the context and what food one is talking about, but the word “apukht” is a generic word meaning “uncooked”, which is specifically applied to what some of us call “basturma”. ** I can’t find it now, I will, it must have a footnote under a certain entry. ***It is obvious that one of the editors is American where contrary to the Armenian allergy there is in fact a word idex. How do our Armenian writers editors expect us to find certain words, names etc. beside leafing the entire 1000 page book one page at a time? Does anyone have an Armenian book, aside from those by Richard Hovannisian, with an index where to find czertain entries? ===== ENJOY http://www.amazon.com/Armenian-Food-Fact-Fiction-Folklore/dp/1411698657 Here we can see the entire contents. http://books.google.com/books?id=0oXYX9Qzx9oC&printsec=frontcover&dq=armenian+food+petrosian&source=bl&ots=f4Xu6lI1N1&sig=HeyAwez0VLLMyZ0EEjqIaVpk0C8&hl=en&ei=KY8aTabmD4us8AaK9InsBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Not exactly an answer to the particular question, a bit of history regardless. Azat and his co-vegans will love it. http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?path=FDC/FDC006/961871.jpg http://news.am/eng/news/43105.html

Hi HG, welcome. Good question.. My translit would have been “zhamanakin kar (ou?) chkar”. It is the Armenian version of “once upon a time”. Here you will see it in many languages including the Armenian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_upon_a_time Also look here; http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D5%AF%D5%A1%D6%80-%D5%B9%D5%AF%D5%A1%D6%80 Now the Armenian of your phrase ԺԱՄԱՆԱԿԻՆ ԿԱՏ ՉԿԱՐ ժամանակին կար չկար Sometimes the “ou/and” is inserted to read “zhamankin kar ou chkar” Note the Eastern Armenian variant - լինում է, չի լինում (linum ē, či linum) Literally “is, is not” or “(there) was, (there) was not”.

WOW!!! and WOW!!! THIS ONE BLEW ME AWAY!!! (Please pardon me for responding here under one of my least favorite topics of the Big G. Hopefully it will not happen again. Dear Avril, we love you and we love your passion. But, do you know that there is more to Armenian Culture other than the Big G. Mon cher ami, vous connai qui‘l ya tres plus a Culture Armenien autre que le Genocide? Please excuse “my forgotten French“) ---- Dear Avril, thank you very much for this post. Except that. How did you conclude that this belongs under the topic of "genocide"? Why did you choose to air this under one of my least favorite general Topic of the Big G? A topic that I personally hate to visit and respond to? Yes, we know that you own this thread and are free to post any or what you deem related. It is no secret that I seldom read posts under this topic, and try very hard to not respond. But, in this case I will reluctantly make an exception. This brings back so many memories. My favorite songs and poems that I only remember a few words of, that I cannot find anywhere else, be they hard copy or electronic. Too bad that it is in the PDF form, not copiable, pasteable or repostable. Dear Avril, THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN for a wonderful post. But why did you choose to post this under the general Topic of the Big G? Yes, we know that many of the songs and poems are lamentatious, yet many of them are also triumphant in nature, all the way from Vardanants etc. Would not this be better posted under another topic of your choice, like Culture, Literature, Music etc., where some us, who like me that have an allergy to the topic of the Big G would feel free to respond? Where and how we assume that these are Genocide songs? Where did Azdak say that these are Genocide songs? Many of them were written much before 1915. You will notice that when Azdak published this anthology they did not label it as “genocide literature/songs”. The title of the book is ԱԶԳԱՅԻՆ ԸՆԴԱՐՁԱԿ ԵՐԳԱՐԱՆ/EXPANDED NATIONAL SONGS. Where there are songs about life and death, love and hate…. and sarcasm like dolma and sarma… Once again. Dear Avril, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for this wonderful post. I will read it again and find many of the long forgotten songs that are not found anywhere else. Please be advised that this will be my only and last comment under this Topic of the Big G. With your kind permission I will repost this in another Subject Topic and see how we can respond to it. THANK YOU!!! ---- A note to our cyber geeks. Is there a way to covert it to a copiable pasteable HTML text format?

ԽԱՐԱՐՈՒԹՅՈՒՆ?? Take a look at this picture; http://news.am/pic/news/42166.jpg Can you guess what they are trying to say? Aren't you glad they did not write խարարուՑյուն ------- ---

PONTIFF -ՎԵՀԱՓԱՌ ՀԱՅՐԱՊԵՏ, ՔԱՀԱՆԱՅԱՊԵՏ Pay special attention to “քահանայապետ”. We will see why. Please don’t mind me. I am just talking to myself, and in the process teaching myself. and learning. (In another thread about “Noah’s Ark” I questioned whether Noah was Christian, just as Julius Caesar. We will see.) We often hear that the Pope is called a Pontiff. Just as often in the English versions the Armenian Catholicos is referred to as “pontiff”. Do we know what it means? One dictionary says it is pope/պապ /քահանայապետ.. Yes ”pope”is a variation of “papa/պապա/father/papaz”, as in “papazian”. Or as sometimes belote players will call this as “papaz” http://allaboutcards.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/king-hearts4.png As to the definition and etymology of “Վեահափառ/vehaparr”, perhaps another subject, there is very little to go about except when Ajarian mentions it under the topic of “Վեհ/veh”, high, exalted, heavenly…and in combination with “փառ/parr”, glory. “Pontifex Maximus=supreme bridge maker/builder”, from the Latin “pont=bridge” and “fex=make”. Who knows this French ditty? We will skip what “pond“ means in the English; http://www.virtourist.com/europe/avignon/imatges/020.jpg ---- At the height of the glory of the Roman Empire there was one institution over and above the Senate and the emperor, it was the office of the Pontifex Maximus, the chief priest of the Temple. We read that Julius Caesar, after he virtually conquered all of the known world had only one unfinished ambition left, to be the Pontifex Maximus, the supreme priest, over and above the emperor. That may have been the reason for his demise by the hand of his own son Brutus. Is the Catholicos/pontiff over and above the “emperor” Sargisian/Kocharian/TerPetrosian? ---

As far as I am concerned you and your noah's arse can sink to the bottom of Atlantis. Tell us something. Since you seem to know all about the "ark". Do tell us. In that bestial menagerie did the mouse make love to the elephant or visa versa?

My grandfather used to say "live and learn". How true! And now we learn that Noah was Christian???? And that his "ark" was in fact a "kirk/church"??? Was Julius Caesar Christian? W e will see the connection in another post in Language. Hint. Pontiff. Dear "mickey" your ark is leaky and your oars are broken. Please don't ask me how we spell "oar" in Armenian.

And now that we are running out of argument we get personal? How did Sip become a mod? Is it because unlike some of us here, under that "cheesy hat" he has a skull full of grey brain matter.

25 years? Wow!! You mean you began this study at the age of one? So, did you find out when you will ascend to heaven while us, the "atheists" will descend six foot under? ARE WE HAVING FUN OR WHAT!!! Oh! btw Mikey. Do you spread this kind of natural fertilizer at other fora or just here?

I prefer Chinese "chai" rather rather than the Indian "tey". No, no I prefer "furkish kahveh".

Did someone suggest that this be moved to the category of humor (Comedistan)? Yes, I did. Look above. Sip is doing a good job though. You want a prophecy? I’ll give you one. I prophesy that the Cheese bank, I mean Chase will cancel all of Sip’s credit cards, it will raise his interest rate to 1,000,000 %, will take his shirt off his back, not to mention his pants, he will be rendered homeless and condemned to shack up with you in your leaky dinghy. Here is Sipan Diogenesian living in a barrel; http://www.philosophy.gr/hellinistic/alexander_diogenes.gif Oh! Before I forget. Thank you for providing us with an entertaining topic. We deserve a comic relief once in a while. Above you asked if I was an "atheist"? Yes, I am. I don't like "thei/tea", I prefer coffee.

As always an excellent find. Thank you Zartonk, we can always rely on you for bringing these well searched and researched very interesting informations. In spite of my “religion”, my trepidation about the Wiki site, the above, my quote from the Wiki-Mickey- mouse site seems to be a verbatim translation from the Hanragitaran. The reason why I have my reservations about the Wiki site, which I have expressed on numerous occasions, is when we don’t know who the authors are, their credentials etc. For all I know they may be 12 year old high school dropouts. We saw a perfect example of this right here when one of our corespondents, obviously a very young person came back and announced triumphantly saying that they had just added an item at the Armenian Cuisine on Wiki, - “furkish coffee”? HUH!!! . Mercifully, in response to my vehement protestations someone must have re-edited it . We don’t see that entry anymore. As to my reservations in re the Hanragitaran, better known as Հայկական Սովետական Հանրագիտարան/ Armenian Soviet Encyclopaedia. Yes, I can read that “compilation of trash”. It was initiated in 1974 and completed in 1986, several years before de-sovietization. That monograph about Khachkars is in volume 5, dated 1979. The reason why we don't see any reference to the Earthquake of 1988. Need we say more? Hence it is understandable (?) why it is treated in such a sloppy fashion., since in those days treating subjects like “khach/khachkar” may have earned one a one way ticket to Siberia, or “ee verin yerousaghem” . In addition, most of the entries in that piece of garbage aka “hanragitaran” seem to be translations from the Russkii Entsiklopetiya, with more than 50% of it devoted to the likes of “mehmet alioghlu “, member of the “party” since 1922.…blah, blah, blah. Perhaps if they remove the biographies of those sons of dogs then we may have more space for subjects like “khach” and “khachkar”. End of my “sermon” of the day. Once again, dear Zartonk, thank you for that wonderful site about Khachkar.am. It deserves a thorough study. Khachkar.am PS. One of the contributors/editors of the "hanragitaran" promised me in person that it was in the process of revision. OH YEAH!!! Why does that dog heydar aliev still have a full page biography? Is it in anticipation when aliev and serzhiev sargsovich once again become "kardash/brothers"?

ԴՈՒՐ ԹՈՒՐ ԴՈՒՌ (We will ignore the last one, it means “door/entrance”, note that it ends with the hard R/Ռ. In fact the correct classical form is “դուռՆ/dourN”, note the N.) This is a dialogue between me and me to once and for all settle a debate that I had been having with myself. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Duryan.jpg For a long time I had been questioning why Petros Dourian (1851-1872), who was a master linguist spelled his family name incorrectly, that it should be “tourian” , better yet “thourian/Թուրեան”, since his surname is the armenized form of the furkish “zmbayan/chisel”, that at the age of 14 he amended in 1865. **. Obviously he knew the Armenian language better than me. Of course those deaf ones who speak the bolis variation transliterate it to “bedros tourian”. I was under the impression that the Armenian word for chisel was “թուր”. I should have searched as I just did. Chisel=Դուր and Թուր =sword*** sometimes also known as “sour/սուր” which in its turn also means sharp. Դուր chisel; http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/Fuller_chisels.jpg Թուր sword; http://www.magicbob.org/PunisherSword.jpg **His younger brother Abp. Yghisheh Dourian (1860-1930) was the Patriarch of Jerusalem. *** At times it also means a boring/hole making tool not unlike a drill. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51peZGi8oOL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

ԽԱՉՔԱՐ Is it Cross Stone or Stone Cross? History and Tradition Of Khachqar. This is an historical theme as it is cultural. The reason, in the English we write “an historical” is because in the Latin it is “istoria”(without the opening H, i.e “story”. And, here they are, Khachatur and Little Khachatur/Khachik Karian; http://www.armeniapedia.org/images/e/e0/Khachkar_carver_ijevan--dcp9338.jpg http://www.armeniapedia.org/images/0/01/Khachkar_carving-dcp1712.jpg Not having given it much thought, many of us just as I would have assumed that the history and tradition of the Khachkar would have gone at least to the year 301 AD. Not so. It seems. Look below. Where we read that the earliest memory of it is from the 9th C (879 AD).*** Immediately after the Arab conquest. Was the tradition a manifestation of “reaction” rather than “action”? The History and Culture of the Khachkar. Historic; http://loosavor.org/pics/armenia/cemetery1/Noraduz,%20Khachkars_small.jpg Modern; http://www.armeniancatholic.org.au/common/khatchkar.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Prelacy_Khachkar_-_Baghdasar_Arzoumanian.JPG Even though I have my opinion about Wiki-..., as we cannot see the author’s credentials and CV, yet this seems to be one of the better; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khachkar *** My take of it would be. In those days Armenia was very much influenced by Arab/Muslim culture. When they had their own rites of burial and entombment, and to differentiate ours we came up with the idea. Note that Muslim tombs feature the “turbin” or some other ethno-religious symbol, at times the fez or the hijab/veil. --- PS. W will try and follow to see what Armenian sourcse say about itx.

My apologies for reaponding here. This whole thing is better suited under Comedistan. Comedians are born every day just as do suckers. Does it say how long this project will take, how many zillions of taxpayers' $$$ will be wasted? How many master carpenters and how many structural engineers it will take? It took that clown 6 days to build it single-handedly, and on the seventh day, the sabbath he got drunk and slept through the whole thing. Here is the lumber he bought at Home Depot- matchsticks; http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?path=CSK/CSK013/ks4503.jpg And his tools were powered by this generator-gerbil wheel; Here is what he built; http://www.joslaw.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/orange_dinghy.jpg And, this is him; http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?path=UNY/UNY553/u18861572.jpg

No, sad to say, dear Armat you’re out of contention. What we need is a “ՄԱՅՐ/mayr/mother” to be the “ՄԱՅՈՐ/mayor” of Yerevan whose main interest is the welfare of her ՃՈՒՏԻԿ/CHICKS. Have you seen how a MOTHER HEN protects her chicks even at a risk to her life? I have !! And, have you seen how some male beasts murder the offspring of their potential mating partners? Am I a feminist? Why not? My mother, my sister, my wife and my daughter are all feminine.

Yes it seems so. There are many refernces to it. Here is one; Also look here; http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14133&pid=276790&st=0entry276790

What do you mean by “little car”? Is this you with your “little car”? http://trashtrucks.org/wp-content/uploads/semi-trucks-for-sale.jpg Is this you? With your minicooper car? http://www.topspeed.com/cars/auto-shows/gallery/mini-cooper-ar715/picture10830.html Your car? http://www.millbros.com/RC%20Tractor%20Trailer.jpg

Here is a picture of my front/backyard. Not really. Do you want to lend a hand? http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?path=DSN/DSN012/1784935.jpg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAz-jdpTeI0&feature=related

Who do you suggest that Sargisian would have sold those weapons to? mehmet in ankaga? heydar in boku? mikhail in pisslis? ( putin in mos-cow-dung? Of all the people in the region Iran seems to be the only friend, our only opening to the world. Do you want to shut that highway down? Regardless if it is patrolled by mullah or mahmoud mafyian. When we have a country as big as that controlled by the mullahs, then we can talk from a position of strength. Only then we can "thumb our (big)noses" to the world. http://www.nostalgicreflections.com/images/castingthumbnosefenderorn.jpg

Dear Armat. I hate to get personal. Is it my understanding that you are a former Yerevanite? How about you move back and run for king/president instead of hiding in the safety of the back alleys of Watertown/Jrashen? They don't even know that MASIS is spelled with one S. http://www.massisbakery.com/

Proctocols? What Proctocols? See? It has been so long that I can’t even spell the word. What are these idiots smoking? Is this minister from “afion”** That “dead letter” *** has been permanently dead and buried for quite sometime. Of course, they would remember, since that so called “football diplomacy” contained three so called “no preconditions” , all three of which are potential three goal scores in their favor. For once, our fearless in Yerevan woke up and read that piece of trash, understood its implications and buried it deep. Yet those esheks in Ankara are still beting a “dead donkey”. http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu46/RosaBella75/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg ** Afion is a city in that country (they spell it afYon now). The word is corrupted form of “opium”. ***Dead Letter- http://www.panorama.am/en/region/2010/12/08/turkey/

Let me nominate Gamavor as King of Armenia. Hey Gams! Whatever happened to your signature " the best duck is a dead duck"?