Berj

MJ, I mixed the words "to create" and "to built". Well, Armenia, as well as any other country, was built by the people residing on its territory.

quote:Originally posted by MJ: .. statement regarding building Armenia by Russia indeed is extreme. It would be accurate to claim, I think, that Armenia was built during the Soviet period. Does it mean that it would’ve not been built had Armenia been independent since 1918? MJ, I think there is truth in what Azat has said. The re-creation of Armenian legal entity in Transcaucasus began after the conquest of Yerevan by general Paskevich in 1828. After the Turkmenchai treaty the Russians enforsed Persia to agree with the dislocation of a large number of Armenians from New Jougha to the territories near Yerevan. At that time the Armenian population of Yerevan was around 20.000. In 1849 they established the Yerevan Goubernia (we didn't have any territory we could legaly claim until that day). In 1918 it was the Yerevan Goubernia that became the basis of creation of the Armenian Republic. The numbers of dislocation of the Armenian population can be a result of Soviet propaganda, however the creation of the Armenian legal entity is a fact. But I don't think Russians did it beacuse of some feelings towards. [ April 17, 2001: Message edited by: Berj ]

Boghos jan, I'm sure that Armenian state will survive no matter what happens (except for WW3). Too many countries need us to be here (even the ones with totally opposite interests). The matter how we will live here, what goods and culture we will produce depends on us and our will. If we don't have that will, there is no need to have a state. I think that the change in country's governing and business management that will come with the generation change will help a lot.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: I think, we, as a people are not exempted from having greedy or generous individuals. ...as well as gangsters and jobless scientists, jobless workers, jobless farmers...

You see Mr. Balozian, when your criticism is addressed to everybody or nobody, anyone can take the position of Servantes. [ April 14, 2001: Message edited by: Berj ]

quote:Originally posted by MJ: ...Demirdjie refers to the profession of a painter (may be the other way around). Just for reference. Aremianised version of Demirchian would be Darbinian (which is a very popular Armenian surname). Demirchi in Turkic stands for "blacksmith". "Demir" or "Timur" (sounds different in Turikic dialects) in Turkic means steel or iron, like in Timurlan (Tamerlan in Western reference).

quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian: MY REPLY TO BERJ ********************Berj: All nations have crucified/backstabbed their messiahs: am I right in assuming you see nothing wrong in this? Are you implying, if others have behaved in that manner, why don’t we follow their example? I think I made it clear that I was not speaking on behalf of the hero-killer.

quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian: MY REPLY TO BERJ ********************Berj: Armenia must survive without the diaspora: that’s like saying if a man can survive with one eye, one leg, one arm, and one kidney, why don’t we deprive him of these items? Are you sure you are not a sadist? If one eye is damaged, there is no need to install the other damaged eye. Same conserns to all other organs.

Mr. Baliozian, I want to add one more thing about Socrates. I think while he was thinking about different things, Aristotel practically tought Alexander the Great about the philisophy of conquering the world and the techniques of spreading of Hellenic culture.

MJ, be careful, she can declare you a heretic in no time.

Nvard jan, let's go on with your birthday... HAAAPPPY BIIIITHDAY NVAAARD!!!

Almost every time I talk with a European (who has never been to Armenia) about Armenians, the first direct or hidden estimation of our character I get is: "You're cunning and greedy" This lable is a big shame for me. Considering that Hayastantsis are at least not greedy, I want to know which country's Armenian community and emmigrants behave this way to bring this shame on us? Surely, I'm generelising.

quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian: [QB]MY REPLY TO BERJ ********************Berj: As for examples: Instead of making a list of names, tell me in what way Socrates, Christ, and Gandhi helped their people? In what way Tolstoy and Solzhenitsyn helped Russia? Russians followed Lenin and Stalin, and the USSR collapsed because its structure was corrupt not because of what Solzhenitsyn wrote. To say Solzhenitsyn was behind the collapse of the USSR is to recycle Stalinist propaganda, because that’s exactly what Stalinists are saying today. Are you sure you are not a crypto-Stalinist? Teachings of Socrates and Christ can be considered as general phylosophy. They were not directing it towards their national development. Gandhi helped Indian people a lot. Actually he created the present Indian state(leading it's struggle against the Brittish colonial rule). I think by Tolstoy you meen Alexei Tolstoy. I don't know much about him. Solzhenitsyn is considered to be the embodiment of anti-Stalinism. If his writings were not helpful, than we can also say that criticizm in general has no use agaist anything. Regards

quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian: MY REPLY TO BERJ ********************Berj: If, as you say, you are in your twenties, I suggest you be more receptive, my friend, and less bloodthirsty! / ara Mr. Baliozian, I'm sorry for being familiar and sarcastic.

OF MICE AND MEN ***************************** There are people out there -- and I mean highly trained professionals – whose main job consists in introducing complexities where none exists. One could say that they are trained to take a simple straight line and to make of it a maze so intricate that even a mouse of genius could not extricate himself from it even if he tried for a thousand years. Which is where we come in. We might as well be that mouse at the mercy of professional charlatans who have created such a complex and serpentine maze around us that we have failed again and again to emerge from our tribal stage and establish our place in the sun as a nation. The enigma of our destiny? What nonsense! Understand this and consider the enigma (which was never there to begin with) solved. Ara Baliozian

Koko jaaan , I'm not that much into poetry, but you and Karine have very sweet names.

quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian: reply to my critics: ***************************** I have nothing but contempt for a nation that needs to crucify its saviors. I am even prepared to call such a nation a bunch of sadistic bastards! All saviors of all nations have always been crucified, or at least stabbed in back. That's in the nature of the human being. Shall I give examples?

Hello Ara, I had a nice weekend! So, let's go on with heroes... "Azeries have oil" This is the first biggest lie. "if one of us dies, the other may wither away too…" That's the other one. "Azeries have oil" is a media cliche used for political propaganda. A country like p.e. Germany can utilize all Azeri oil in 6 months. Caspian oil is in Kazakhstan and the gas is in Turkmenistan. Azerbaijan is a transport route, so is Armenia. Armenia can and must live without diaspora's assistance. It has a reasonable amount of resources to develop an economy of a normal European country without having oil or gas deposits. Actually, the same Germany has only coal and aluminium.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: When an Armenian judge in California expresses her thoughts about how the reputation of Armenians have been essentially destroyed, one must wonder what is happening. Moreover I see no harm in discussing these issues openly. No problem Boghos jan, let's discuss it. As much as I have read in the news, the local Armenians are making the biggest fuss over this "reputation" thing. All other ethnic groups understand that immigrants usually behave like that.

Oh, I forgot. Hovhannes Tumanyan said it best in his "Mkneri Zhoghove". "Yes zhar asem, te zang kakhem?". Well, zang kakheq paronayq.

IT ALWAYS TAKES A GOOD MAN'S LIFE TO MAKE THE CHANGE. I guess that was what Jesus wanted to say. The critics of the regime in the Soviet Union numbered in thousands. Most of them were becomming dissidents(or just statistics). Two of them, Solzhenitsin and Sakharov, carried the burden for all of them (the critics) right to the end. What they did? Simple, they suffered in the prison. That's why the people remember THEIR names. We are mice. Everyone of us is afraid of losing his piece of cheese. We carry the crumbs of cheese to our ojakh and are happy that we were smart enough to get those crumbs. Yes we are smart, smart as the mice. Forseeing your question...wait until I'm 33.

quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian: YOU WANNA SAVE THE NATION? **************************************** Speaking for myself: I have no messianic ambitions, none whatever! Neither am I a revolutionary or a reformer. That's sad. You could have made the difference.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: I strongly believe, to my own sorrow, that an Armenian's worst enemy is another Armenian. Why ? Immigration mostly from Armenia has changed that dramatically. The new arrivals have quite a different image. Boghos, No shouting. Just read your own lines. And after reading them for some 10 times, count how many Hayastantsis with "quite a different image" you've got on this forum.

Ara, please tell me if you're convenient with the idea of posting your history related observations in this topic. I reposted all your previous entries on history here exept for the "last words", which registered a discussion. TO ALL: if you have an opinion on Ara Baliozian's entries in this thread, please, open a separate topic in the history section. Thank you

MASSALS ************************ Ours is a story of such labyrinthine complexities, with so many unexpected twists and turns, dark corners and underground passages, dead ends and blunders – yes, above all blunders and miscalculations, not to say treason and betrayal – that to reduce it to a narrative of 20 or 200 or even 2000 pages (less than a page for every 365 days) amounts to engaging in magic realism in the manner of THE ARABIAN NIGHTS. Which is exactly where our history texts stand today. I know what I am talking about having concocted such a massal myself: my only best-seller (over 10,000 copies sold so far). And now you may draw your own conclusion… Three apples fell from heaven and all three were rotten! -------------------- ara baliozian