Berj

Tornado, "Rostem and Sohrab" is the 8-th chapter of Ferdowsi's "Shahname", and to me it's "Shahname"-s most beautiful part. Here is the link: The Epic of Shahnameh Ferdowsi The epic of Armenians is the "Davit of Sasoun" ("Sasounci Davit"). However, there is a very interesting thing that Ferdowsy says in "Shahname". Somewhere he mentions "Davit of Sasoun the king of Armenians". I don't remember where exacty, I'll look for it. This will cost you (let me think)...mmm... $1. I accept only cash [ May 18, 2001: Message edited by: Berj ]

Boghos, I don't think Armenia's economy has improved even for a iota. I judge the improvment of economy by making sure that the salleries in the budgetary organisations, pensions etc. have increased. Nothing of this kind has occurred yet. The only indice that increased was the figure of industial output. It is conditioned by the re-functioning of several big plants (p.e. the Kanaz aluminium plant), creation of some joint-ventures in software and tourism industry. I don't believe in Armenias tourism industry as a major source of budgetary incomes (which was declared one last year), beacuse tourism developes only in safe regions. Armenia, or the Transcaucasia as a whole, can develop tourism only in 2 cases: 1. Russia collapses furthermore, totaly losing control over anything in Trascaucasia and the EU structures start functioning. 2. US moves out of the region leaving the control to Russia and the EU. Russia's oil export in 2000, for the first time in the last decade, has reached the level of pre Soviet Union break up period and it's going to increase furthermore. It's crucial for Russia to invest all this oil money into industry and not to lose it on conflicts etc. So, if nothing happens in the regions, where Russia has geopolitical interest (Balkans, Trascaucasia, Afganistan), it will manage to do so. Otherwise we will go through a decade of regional conflicts in the noted above regions. Armenia will depends on Russia and the former SU countries as potential markets of its heavy industry products IF WE DECIDE TO DEVELOP THESE SECTORS (currently our aluminium, rubber etc. are being exported to Russia, Ukrain, Belorus). The other partners are the EU (specifically Belguim) where we export the dimonds (note that for the export of diamonds you need a suitcase only) and the US (export of software, brandy, dry fruits, jams etc.). If we decide that tourism and software are to become the main sectors of our economy we must wait for approx. 10-15 years for uncertain results. I have read in the news that the US is discussing to open its Alaska oil fields and increase its sales in Latin America. This is an indicator that the Central Asia oil boom may be delayed.

I'm gonna use this word for the first time for this special occassion, attention !: "LLLLLOOOOOOLLLLLL" If this is serious, I respect the guy without knowing him! Congratulations !!!

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg31821.html Turkey: No foreign policy change should be expected for financial support - minister Turkish news agency Anatolia 17 May 2001 Ankara Foreign Minister Ismail Cem said on Thursday [17 May] that a change in Turkey's foreign policy can be made only with parliament's will, government's decision and the Turkish people's approval. "Some circles should not fall into the error of an expectation of even a little change in Turkey's foreign policy on account of the money they lent. However, we have not seen even an implication so far," he said. Addressing the Parliamentary General Assembly as a response to Oya Akgonenc, a deputy from the [opposition] Virtue Party (FP), Cem said that the so-called Armenian genocide allegations were being used as a weapon against Turkey with political purposes. "It is not true that any reaction has not been shown against these allegations. All ministries of the state and its relevant units are carrying out every kind of work. Nobody should build high hopes and labour under a delusion. It is out of the question for Turkey to give concession to such nonsense," he said. Stressing that Turkey can't be just an onlooker towards a mistake like the acceptance of Greek Cypriot administration's European Union (EU) membership, Cem said, "in such a situation, we do what is necessary to protect the interests of Turkey and the [self-styled] Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC). Besides, what we will do does not have a limit." Cem said that there were points that Turkey became late in democratization but it was trying to overcome those deficiencies on its will. Noting that the EU brought the issue of making use of NATO's capabilities to the forefront regarding the European Security and Defence Identity (ESDI), Cem said, "If NATO will give such an opportunity to the EU, it should protect the rights of non-EU allied countries like Turkey." "There has been a considerable development in our relations with the EU. Now, the ball is in our court. Two financial issues were solved as a result of our talks with the Commission for Enlargement. We were asking a 450m dollars of project loan from the Special Action Fund and we obtained it. Turkey reached the point of receiving 450m million dollars. The European Investment Bank has a 8.5bn dollars of source allocated to candidate countries. This is the cheapest loan in the world. Turkey's private sector or state had the opportunity to get this source by bringing their projects," he said.

AZERBAIJAN STRUGGLES FOR ENTIRE Artsax: FOREING MINISTER GULIYEV Source:ANS 16.05.01--BAKU--The President of Azerbaijan Heydar Aliyev said during his meeting with the Deputy Foreign Minister of Russia, Vyacheslav Trubnikov that official Baku was satisfied with what Russia and other co-chairs of the OSCE Minsk Group were doing toward resolution of the Artsax conflict. Said Mr Aliyev: «But it’s important that this work gives practical results. Thoughts that some agreements will be signed in Geneva or later create great hopes among people.» The Russian deputy minister recommended not to hurry and be realistic. According to him, the parties must find solution not to «second-rate» issues but those being of more importance. Mr Trubnikov said one would deceive himself if believed the problems will be solved tomorrow. The Russian diplomat noted that the major problems to be solved are determination of the status of Lachin and Shusha, Azeri regions occupied by Armenia. But Azerbaijan’s Foreign Minister Vilayat Guliyev said no concrete city name was discussed during the talks. According to Mr Guliyev, «Azerbaijan struggles for the entire Artsax.» Mr Guliyev said it was unacceptable to divide Artsax into separate regions. It should also be noted that Armenian President Robert Kocharian announced that the peace agreement will be based on a package variant of adjustment of the conflict. But instead of saying «NO» to the package variant like he always did, the Azeri foreign minister said he felt difficulty with evaluation of those documents since he knew nothing of their contents. By Etibar Mamedov

Hello Tornado, There are courses of Armenian language for foreign students in the Yerevan Medical University, as well as in the State Conservatory, where they study Armenian language for apporx. 1.5 year and then go on with their studies on speciality. You can contact Yerevan State University by the e-mail of webmaster, asking him to provide the e-mail of the department dealing with the foreign students. I think there must be classes for foreign students who come to the YSU to study Armenian literature, history etc.

quote:Originally posted by oz: 1.Berj, there could be no excuse for terrorism. 2.I don't accept buts,ifs or becauses when we are talking about terrorism. 3.By the way, I don't know any monument of Talat Pasa or any Young Turk in Turkey. 1.and 2. Yes, it's true. There can't be an excuse for terrorsim on moral level. You don't accept "but"-s. A dogma or what? If you don't accept "but"-s lets make it more cinical: "Which one is more moral, killing one child and going to jail, or killing thousands and covering it?". You say terrorsts were cowards, as if they had any other way or means to strggle for their case. First, we must discuss the "reason=>consequense" link. What's the reason of terrorism. I'm not talking about religious terrorism (like Osma Bin Laden or similar), let's discuss the main reason of the national terrorism: Irish, Armenian, Basque etc. It occurs ONLY as a CONSEQUENCE of surpression, mass killing from the side of those who are in controll of a given country. Let the Kurds establish a free state and they will stop the terrorism. 3.Talaat's body was brought back from Germany in 1970s (not sure about the date), and was burried with honors. I'm sure there must be a monument over his grave. No matter it's small or big, it's there. It must be in the cemetery where your statesmen are being burried.

To my knowledge, Sanscrit is considered to be the oldest written Indo-European language beacuse the Indian epics "Mahabharata" and "Ramayana" were written in that language. I'm not sure whether Abkhazian was a written language at that time. I think the "white race" is called Caucasian by the western science for a number of reasons. According to the biblical legends Iaphet, the son of Noah, settled in Caucasus giving birth to the "white race". The oldest remaits of the "white monkey" (don't remember the scientific name of the "white monkey" but the "yellow one" was is called Cinantropus) were found in Caucasus. There were more but I don't remember them now. I'll try to find out where "Caucasus" comes from.

Well, may be Abkhazia once was a great country which gave birth to other Indo-European nations and languages, but as much as I know the Sanscrit is considered to be the oldest Indo-European language. [ May 16, 2001: Message edited by: Berj ]

Top Russian diplomat rules out early Artsax settlement ITAR TASS BAKU, 15 May: A meeting of the "Caucasus four" will be held in early June in Minsk within the framework of a summit of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), Russian First Deputy Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Trubnikov announced in Baku today. Trubnikov said meetings of the "Caucasus four" are now held regularly. The presidents of Russia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Armenia have of late been meeting twice a year. Their efforts have concentrated on achieving security and stability in the region. Commenting on statements by a number of Western politicians about the possibility of settling the Nagornyy Artsax conflict by the end of 2001, Trubnikov said that "not a single sober-minded politician would speak of a specific timeframe for the conflict's solution". "This problem is quite old, serious and complicated to be solved by a certain date. It requires thinking over and working on," Trubnikov said...

TROUBLE IN THE RUSSIAN DIOCESE OF ARMENIAN APOSTOLIC CHURCH COULD BECOME SCHISM Mir religii 14 May 2001 On Sunday, 13 May, during divine worship in the Moscow church of the Holy Ascension, Archbishop Tiran Kiuregian of the Novo-Nakhichevan and Russian diocese of the Armenian Apostolic church announced the departure of the Association of Armenian Apostolic Churches of Moscow from the jurisdiction of Patriarch Catholicos Garegin II of all-Armenians. The reason for this was the decision of the patriarch naming a new ruling bishop for Moscow, who turns out to be the patriarch's own brother. Archbishop Tiran Kiuregian has headed the Novo-Nakhichevan and Russian diocese of the Armenian Apostolic church over the course of almost 25 years. However on 11 April of this year Patriarch Catholicos Garegin II named a new administrator for the diocese, Archimandrite Ezras Nersesian, Garegin's own brother. As the Kommersant newspaper reports in its issue for 14 May, the Moscow Armenian church community has been split into two parts; some of its members support the patriarch's decision removing Archbishop Tiran while others decisively oppose it. The real subtext of the intra-church conflict are questions about the degree of autonomy for the diocese and the disbursement by the foundation for the support of construction in Moscow of a cathedral church of the Holy Cross, whose head is Archbishop Tiran Kiuregian. According to the plan for construction of the cathedral and cultural-educational center which was established by the government of Moscow, the foundation is responsible for the collection of funds and the immediate supervision of the construction of the church. It can easily be understood why it was Moscow that the patriarch chose as the new place of ministry for his brother, who until recently was the rector of the church in St. Petersburg. Addressing yesterday the parishioners of the church of the Holy Ascension with his announcement of departure of the Association of the Armenian Apostolic Churches of Moscow from under the jursidiction of the diocese and catholicos, Archbishop Tiran accused the patriarch and Archimandrite Ezras of subjecting him to restrictions over the course of the past seven months up to the point of prohibiting public statements. On this basis the archbishop declared that he refuses to submit to the catholicos and archimandrite and he forbids the administrator of the diocese from performing any actions in Moscow churches other than praying as a parishioner. In his turn, Archimandrite Ezras declared that the current incident does not signify that a schism has occurred within the Armenian Apostolic church, since the Association of Armenian Apostolic Churches of Moscow still recognizes itself as under the jurisdiction of the supreme body of church authority, the national church council. At the same time he characterized what has happened as criminal arbitrariness with far-reaching consequences. In the words of Archbishop Tiran, he is prepared for the possibility he may be excommunicated from the church and he suggests that this may happen in the near future, but he does not intend to submit to the catholicos whose authority he no longer recognizes. (tr. by PDS).

quote:Originally posted by Azat: Berj jan, 1.Wouldn't this be exactly Darwin's Theory of evolution. Survival of the fittest? (smartest, strongest)? 2.Does this not mean that people in the 1940 were smarter and all that to be able to invent the bomb? Azat jan, 1.Darvin's theory of evolution is one of the basic scientific researches in ths list of similar reaserches in different sciences "proving" that the universe or at least the Solar System started from the Big Bang. Survival of the fittest is one of his points. His reaserach as well as the reaserches of his followars were ment to prove the origination of human being from the animal. If I remeber right, the Biology book in our schools started from the "ameoba" thing (the first bio-unit that was water originating unisex cell), than there was "infusoria" (unisex mutiple-cell organism), than there were different kinds of mutiple cell organism. On one stage they devided into two sexes (I don't know the reason). Than they came out of the water developing into different kinds of organisms and animals, one of which, the monkey trasformed into human being. This theory was stating that the evolution of monkey into human being was taking place because of the natural surroundings, wildlife etc. which forsed the monkeys (I'm calling them monkeys but they have scientific classification by historic time and origination territory) to be more smarter (attention!: "smarter" this is the part I don't believe). Now, let's talk about this "more smarter" thing. First let me give you an example of retrospective comparison of the so called smartness. Question: Who is smarter Bill Gates or Albert Einstain? My answer is, their inventions are different. Bill Gates invented only a tool, a mechanical tool. Now, we must make a jump to the bread invention. The cultivation of wheat by different ploughs which developed in time, the milling of corn by different kinds of mills are inventions similar to the invention of Bill Gates: inventions of tools. These inventions are a result of human effort to make the life easier. These inventions presume a certain amount of human brainpower and immagination. The "weight" of the human brainpower used during the invention of bread must have been much much "heavier" than during the invetions of any kinds of mechanical tools, beacuse the inventor (or the inventors) could not possibly know what problem he was solving. Or, to put it right, there wasn't a problem to solve. They could continue to eat the corns without milling them. The only prolem would be how to produce more corns. To be continued.

quote:Originally posted by Domino: 1.Sorry Berj, Azat post makes more sense to me. 2.Its like underestimating human capabilities. 1.No need to be sorry, Domino. 2.I'm not underestimating them. But it's obvious that the human brain power is limited. After all, we still don't know where we come from, where are we going, who's really in charge of all of this, where is the start of starts and the end of ends. [ May 13, 2001: Message edited by: Berj ]

quote:Originally posted by Azat: Berj, I am not sure if you are interested in the invention of the bread or the existence of God. If bread, than I do not think that it was an accident. I am one of those people who believe that humans invented everything that we see around us. I cannot argue with anyone if this is right or wrong, it's just my belief. Dear Azat, Thank you for the info. I'm interested in the comparison of the logic which led to the invention of bread (I'm just picking one example) and p.e. atomic bomb. Please, note, I'm not speaking about the tools that were invented to make the bread or the bomb, but simply the products themselves. Surely, each of these inventions registered a historic process with different stages in different regions of the world (I'm not sure, but as much as I know the theory, thechnical solutions and the implementation of the invention of the bomb took place in England, France, Germany, USA, etc.). But there must have been a single person (like Oppengaimer in case of the bomb) who combined all the previous experience to make the product, right? Besides this, in case of both products, there have been breakthrough stages. In case of bread I think it has been the decision to mill the corn to collect the tiny amount of flour in each corn of wheat or whatever cereal was used. I'm sure there have been a similar breakthrough stage in the invention of the bomb. Perhaps, someone with physics background could help us with this. Now. If we compare the breakthrough stages in both inventions, it may be proved that the amount, direction, sharpness etc. of the logic involved in both cases may have been similar. My first questions are: how do you explain the existence of human brain of similar quality in p.e. Roman times and 1940s. Isn't it against Darvin theory of evolution?

Thinking(there have been "best of wishes, happy bithday Raffi, and Raffi jan, and also Raffi jan barekam, with ""be happy"" and ""all the best"" variations, one of our girls is gonna say "Tsnudt shnorhavor"...Bingo!!!) Happy, Raffi jan, birthday!!!

Domino, please don't tell me it was invented accidentally. The list of accidental inventions during history makes a huge statistics, which is an interesting subject itself. Bye for now.

quote:Originally posted by Domino: Berj, are you underestimating Human intelligence by implying that they could not have invented bread ? Hello Domino, The idea of milling the corn for the sake of gathering enough flour to make bake smth. you're not sure about (that's how the first inventor of bread must have thought) is equivalent to the logic of the invention of atomic bomb or similar. This denies the evolution of human brain starting from Bronze Age all the way to 20th century. Well may be it didn't develop from the Dark Age to Bronze Age as well. So, Darvin's monkeys and we have similar quality of logic. This sounds unacceptable to me Regards, P.S. How did you dig out this topic

Ararat mountain

Though "yan" or "ian" in Armenian doesn't mean "son" in English, it is "son"'s equivalent in Armenian. Lot of languanges use this for surname making. In Scandinavian it is "sen", in Arabic "abu", "ibn" or "ben" (like Osma Ben Ladden ), in Jewish "bin", in Turkish "oghli" or "oghlu", in Georgian "dze", in Russian "ov" etc. In Armenian "yan" is a also used to indicate belonging. There are also other endings in Armenian surnames, like "unts", "ents", "uni" "akan", though rarely used. "Uni" and "akan" in history have been the endings of noble famiily names like Artsruni, Bagratuni, Gnuni, Kamsarakan, Arshakuni, Gardmanakan, Syuni, Marzpetuni, Pahlavuni. Historians calim that "uni" comes from Armenian "unenal" meaning "to own". "akan" and "unts"/"ents" also indicate belonging. Garvarents, Gyurjyants, Bakounts, Sevouts etc.

Vay, Mos Jan, akhpers, es postd chei tesel. Kneres. Anhamber spasum em web-page-it. Kneres noric.

quote:Originally posted by Aghmug: After a couple listens to the new CD, my impression is it sounds a little too much like Tata. I would call that a Russian influence, but some of you may better define it. Mike, are you talking about Nune's World CD?

That's why Ataturk is considered to be a great politician. Turkey was on its knees at 1920 Sevres treaty. So he switched sides from the West to the Bolshevik Russia and back several times. To fully understand what happened between 1920-1923, one must understand who were the Bolsheviks and why did they help Turkey with gold and armour in its struggle against the West without having control over Turkey's government of that time. That's not because they had hopes that Turkey might become soviet. Russia was back on its geopolitical track only when Stalin came to power in 1924. Its realy hard to discuss the situation in Trascaucasus without mentioning Russia. If Turkey wants to have friendly Caucasus, the only thing to do is to make Armenia feel safe, completely safe. Considering the past, I doubt they can do that. I think Turkey will again switch to the Russian side (that's Turkeys traditional move) if Armenia desides to reject the Russian military assistance and security cooperation. So, what I say is, that when chosing between recognition of Armenian Genocide or becoming a partner of Russia, Turkey will chose the second, for a short time. And between these side switchings another 1mln Armenians will die or at least they'll leave from Transcaucasus.

Dear Azat, thank you for the link. It was interesting. I would recommend you to purchase Nune's "Ov inch giti" and "Nune's World" CDs. It will be something new for you. At least it is several big steps forward from Aram Asatrian and alike. [ May 06, 2001: Message edited by: Berj ]

Washington enraged at ouster from UN rights panel By Mustapha Kamil New Straits Times 05 May 2001 THE American diplomatic community was enraged after the US was on Thursday voted off the Geneva based United Nations Human Rights Commission for the first time since 1947. The 53-member commission was established to investigate abuse around the world. Three seats allocated for western nations were up for grabs in a ballot within the UN Economic and Social Council, but the US came in fourth after France, Austria and Sweden. In the balloting at the UN headquarters, France got 52 votes, Austria 41 votes, Sweden 32 and the United States 29. Republicans in the US Congress immediately lambasted the results while others criticised President George W. Bush's administration for not giving enough importance to the UN and some vital rights issues. There were also accusations that a group of nations that frequently violates human rights had ganged up to throw the US out. The US representative at the UN, James Cunningham, told reporters he was disappointed and that the US "wanted so much to serve on the committee". Washington has yet to appoint an ambassador to the UN since ambassador Richard Holbrooke left early this year. Critics, however, said the voting also reflected member countries' displeasure with Washington's continued holding back of its US$1.7 billion (RM6.4 billion) debt to the UN although it has agreed in principle to pay up. Ironically, the ouster of the US and Congress' strong criticism of the world body came the same day UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan told a group of former US ambassadors in New York that "needless irritants between the UN and Washington have been removed by the US agreeing to settle its outstanding dues." "I believe our special relationship is beginning a new decade on a better footing, with greater mutual understanding and appreciation," Annan told the US Council of Ambassadors. The US, along with Russia and India, has served on the commission since its inception. Some diplomats at the UN said the US had not been forthcoming in supporting human rights issues in recent years while others said Washington's decisions on various other issues, including Bush's missile defence shield initiative, were not liked by many countries. While many could not immediately believe the US was voted off, some raised eyebrows at those voted in. South Korea, Pakistan, Chile, Mexico, Croatia and Armenia, Togo, Uganda, Sudan and Sierra Leone are the new entrants. Apart from the US, others who lost their seats are Iran, Latvia and Azerbaijan. Meanwhile, AP reports that UN Human Rights Commissioner Mary Robinson hoped the US "will return speedily as a member of the commission," saying it has made "a historic contribution". But Cuba's Foreign Ministry released a statement in Havana on Thursday night saying that the vote was proof of "the arrogance and coercive methods" it claimed that Washington regularly employs in international organisations. It expressed hope that the United States would "take note of the pertinent conclusions of this lesson," said the statement, carried by Cuba's Prensa Latina news service.

Dear Azat, Aren't her versions of Sayat-Nova traditional Armenian songs. Or "Moush-Sasoun", "Hay Noubar"... I think her traditional Armenian songs are: 1. "Gavare Mer"-cassette -Msho Gorani -Ninon Esav -Vay Nare ...actually the whole album is traditional Armenian 2."Ov inch giti'-CD -Purma Tikin -Ton Kuga Verevic (with beat background) -Qani vour jan im... etc. Only "Khghja du indz" has some Russian "estrdada" influence. The rest are pure Armenian folk songs. 3. "Nune's World"-CD -Ari Yar (folk) -Tamam ashkharh ptut eka (Sayat Nova) -Zagezouri bari tsnound (a Zangezour folk song) -Hala, Hala-Aman Ishken ( Mousa Ler dialect with some Turkish words) Akh mi angam el zijeir (Sayat Nova) ... Again all Armenian folk songs. I can't see what is non traditional about her.