nairakev

MJ, Kurdish Yezids were and are the part of Armenian history and nowdays! So I don't see any reason for moving it to "National" section. Well, as soon as you did not remove it (thanks bunny!), I'd like to ask someone if he can translate German texts. I have a very very limited knoledge of German. Can someone do a translation, please? [ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

Sorry, I can't find any AFP depeche on this issue. Are you sure that it was Agence France Press?

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: I think I'm almost done. I will, however, give it some time (so it matures!!) and see if there is anything else I can comment on. I think I'll post it in about six hours or so. TRose, seems like you are a spy. Kind of a Turkish Matha Hari (LOL...) I'm looking forward to your eye-witness comments. Have fun!

[ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian: Chekhov tells us hatred unites people more effectively than any other sentiment. Our leaders keep promoting hatred of the turks because they think if they stop doing that we may scatter away, get lost in the crowd, and they may end up with no one to lead. Lead where? That’s what I would like to know…. Maybe you can provide an answer…./ara Ara, you are my answer! I don't hate turks after all effort done by ultra-nationalist armenians who are trying to speculate the genocide commited by turks as a an arm to spread the hatrid towards turks. I don't beleive in power of hatrid. I believe in power that "hatrid" spreaders can create. I never let myself gone by hatrid. Once in Russia I was queueing in "Bakery" and suddenly the crowd arround me in that queue got furious. I heard many people shouting "Damn Armenians", "We should send them back to their country", "they are all bloodsuckers", "dirty pigs" etc.... For a second I thought that I'm going to loose my mind. It was very violent. I was in that queue in I did'nt realise that a gipsy lady pushed an old Russian woman and bought her bread without queueing. I was dump, wordless. Frightened and small. I couldn't say anything, because I've seen this small mass of people becoming a huge danse energy of "hatrid". In front of me there was a Russian woman, she didn't look like a teacher neither like a librarian. She was most probably a worker from the Beer Brewery plant, which was not far from the place. She turned her head and lokked at me, while people where shouting and yelling behind the gispsy women who went out. It was just a moment when her eyes crossed mines. She turned her had and she said "Don't you see she is not Armenian". And another man took the relay by saying: "Yeah, Armenian women do not use foul language. It was a gipsy". And suddenly the whole atmosphere have changed. People who were saying the dirtest things on Armenians started to contradict by themselves "their women are polite", "they do not wear dirty cloths" and bla-bla-bla. I came home and I was trambeling. I had a bunch different feelings that I cannot replay now. Many years later... I still remember this. And I think that there is nothing uglier on earth to hate someone because of his skin, origin, religion, the way of walking, talking or eating... I don't really believe that those who spread "hatrid" will succeed to have fidel followers. There will be always a woman (alike that blond fat Russian plant-worker) who will doubt, at least. Doubting is a huge reconciliation tool. What does actually today some ultra-nationalist liga in Jewish Intelligentsia statds in the same row with those armenian "intellectuals" who spread desinformation and hatrid... I side nothing but my doubts, honey! [ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

quote:Originally posted by Tornado: Berj: Tornado, if you want to be friends, as I suppose, help or stay away Dear Naira i don't become upset if someone disgrees with me, but it seems that there are authoritarian minded people here who try to figurely "murder"anyone who disagrees with them. Murder? LOL... Tornado, you're exagerating! Really! Murdered people do not talk the way you do... Stand for your statements yourself. As we all do. If there is someone trying to shut you up! Then tell them to go and have some *** elsewhere... That's what I do! [ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

quote:Originally posted by MosJan: JERUSALEM SHOULD HAVE A STATUS OF AN OPEN CITY,” SAYS CATHOLICOS OF ALL ARMENIANS The Armenian Catholicos Garegin II has supported the idea of giving a special status to Jerusalem. According to him, no decision on Jerusalem should threaten the safety of the holy places in the city. “Jerusalem should have a status of an open city. Whatever the city’s administration, it should guarantee the freedom of all religions,” said the Catholicos. < 04.06.2001 00.28 > Why the hell this 'old' ass pokes his hairy nose where he has actually no mandate to speak out. He'd better take care of his church which is going through a deep crisis (latest events in Russia demonstrate that). Before agreeing or not agreeing "Jerusalem obtaining a status of an open city", he should require for the Armenian church an open "church" status, which is one of the most conservative forces in Armenian World. The destiny of Jerusalem should be decided by those who live there, but not by Armenian clerical who debarks with his "mormon" attitude of the Truth-beholder. That's my o[p]'nion! [ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

Berj, What emotional effects? That's what we are trying to avoid here, especially in these kind of threads, to get at least some tiny emotionless results. Keep you adrenaline in control. This line you pulled out of its context and after all it wasn't adressed to you neither anyone participating in this thread. ...emotionless results It means nothing... Emotionless? I don't know such a thing. That sentence was a continuation of a thought elaborated in the paragraph ahead and was ment to approve mutually beneficial BUT EQUAL relations between Armenia and Iran. Where do you think you are? In the United Nations? This is a forum for people who represent a variety of backgrounds and nationalities. Not a universal assembley of decision-makers. You talk about history without any approach of a science. You live like what happened in the past does something to do with reality. Pathetic? [ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

quote:Originally posted by dragon: Isg ko harem-it dallagu ov a siroun Naira??? I don't understand what did you say? I guess you tried to speak armenian... Since we can't type in Armenian, please, type in English...

quote:Originally posted by MJ: At your service, Naira. You can count on me ... Count on you? You won't suceed in converting me, baby! I've got no religion! My bible is me! And I didn't finish my "lecture" yet ... You better pray!

quote:Originally posted by MJ: Oh, I see… You are from the league of “Sadist Dominatrixes.” LOL ... not bad! I like this try!

So which part of what I said did you disagree with? Don't be such a "paranoiac", Himbo! I'm not from your ligue of "divine mazochists". I don't find any amusement in the process of 'disagreement". I enjoy rather concesus ... with a bit of "ketch-up" and "spicy-sault-n-peppered" sauce on it ... for "emotional" effect of the matter! Now, you were saying about “Brezhnev.” What was it? It was a "sweet" dream, honey! Now, I'm grown up. I don't believe in those dreams any more. They are too impulsive...I would rather talk about "brezhnev"-s sexual disturbation than on his impotent regime time. I count on some comprehension, here! Sensual despot!

quote:Originally posted by wh00t: Did anyone else know about this? Agence France Presse reported today: This was not the first time that Israeli agents went abroad to collect historic artifacts. It is reported that agents working on behalf of Israel and Turkey have been smuggling large amounts of Armenian collections out of Armenia. Many of these items, including pictures, videos, yet unpublished manuscripts of books documenting the Armenian genocide, and even left over weapons and uniforms, were taken out of museums, publishers offices and government agencies. This pisses the hell out of me... Israel would guard Holocaust artifacts with their life, and us, we just let them take large amounts of our evidence... even though we have yet to prove the Genocide occured to the entire world. I tell you, we are our own worst enemy for letting things like this occur. Do you have a link or a reference to that article? Where was it published?

Wow, what a hot thread! I've got burnt my eyes... --- Let me drop few lines into it. Would you mind it? --- Tornado, You really rock! I haven't seen any other "Tornado" be as fragile as you are when it comes to discussions where your arguments do not get the "popularity" reate. Well...the discussions are not always end up by having conveinced opponents. There are, certainly, an amount of "square-heads" that nothing will change their mind, but there are also "open-minded" but tough ones. With whom you need more delicacy and espacially well-streched arguments. MJ is a "tough" guy but far away from being restrictive. Say, just you are upset because you didn't suceed to beat his arguments. Though you could have them, if you had spent some more time on analysing the "facts and news" instead of pushing on your "sentiments". We didn't discuss a lot. But honestly I had a very "strange" feeling that you let yourself easily get caught by "sentiments"... And not always with best ones. Remember the "basque" thread in "Language" section. Some citations of your thoughts: oh I didn't know that the Mingrelians hated Georgians. I allways had thought that the fanatic and chauvenist Georgians are from mingrelia, like Gamsakhurdia was. Don't you think that your predjudices are overcoming your "sober" mind. This is an exageration to think that the fanatic and chauvenist Georgians are from mingrelia Be careful when you state something in this forum. Because you are touching very serious subjects like "religion", "origin", "peace", "hate". I understand the offensive tone of MJ (but I do not approve! MJ, you hear me?). He demands arguments. While stating something in public forums where visitors enter from god knows where with god knows what kind of background, you cannot just express your personal thoughts (which are far to be not extremist) and expect people agreeing with you. There are always various reactions. And sometimes very extraordinary. So if you feel offended, I think it's better to avoid launching yourself into such a "touchy" subject as the religion is. I'm armenian, but I'm in a tiny minority here because of my thoughts and ideas. And I do not let myself down when someone tries to push on me. If you felt that someone pushed on you. First bring your arguments in more clear way. Then I'll stand for you. But I don't see a reason why you should leave and make yourself a "victim" when noone asked you to leave. Even if I hated your thoughts, I would have stood for you staying here. But I can't do anything, because nobody asked you to leave. Sorry! In that case it means that you lost your discussion. And you failed to promote your ideas. You can't blame anybody for that, Tornado! Nobody was extremely friendly to some of my ideas here. But I don't look here for friends, neither for enemies. For making firends I've got some "web personals" sites specialised for those who look for friends and pen-pals. This thread doesn't seem to be a "let's make frriends" style thing, don't you think. Log in to "Love and Romance" for that purpose. I'd love to meet you their as well, if you feel ready!!! ------------- MJ, you armenian despot! You've explained in such "brezhnev" style manner the glory of Armenian multi-ethnic society. I know that ethnic minorities were well-protected and prosperous during soviet era. I know that. What about today. Do you have any idea on what's going on there? I don't. I found through some firends some surprising news. Check it out, if you didn't do it, yet! http://www.armenianforums.com/site/read.ph...3?f=3&i=35&t=35 We should learn this with more attention, don't you think. Soviet era is gone. What's happening now? Sad! Though I'm not a big "brezhnev" fan :=) --- I didn't want to say this, but I can't. It's for you Berj! Tornado, if you want to be friends, as I suppose, help or stay away. Should a moderator go that far? I always said, that I like you... But now you are going to make me love you, honey! [ June 08, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

Domino, I think this might be interesting for you, if you didn't discover it already. http://www.armenianforums.com/site/read.ph...3?f=3&i=33&t=18

quote:Originally posted by Mike77: Sorry, if I offended you. I am a simple man. Yeah, you are, Mike! I am what you see, honey. Not a complicated woman either!

quote:Originally posted by Harut: them? you keep harem of guys or what? Sort of a harem!!! LOL... I call it geisha club!

quote:Originally posted by dragon: Tell me if you find him I do find them very often, drago!

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: OK, darling, I was never doubting your scholarship and knowledge. LOL... Je t'adore Paoulo! Flatte-moi encore, encore, encore bébé. J'adore ça!

very touching story! If he wasn't austrian I would believe that this is another turkish "armenian terrorism" blockbuster...Somehow these lines seems so déja vue vocabulary stuff: Shocked with the friend's death I began the detailed study of the «Armenian matter». Where? Not mentioned! Is this Turkish sources... Or German archives? May be French? Or Russian? I'd love too see in those archives any information on armenian terrorism. If this book will be bought, probably it will be the first on the self of those archives... Well Turkish archives seem to me got plenty of them. Déja vue, boy! A very old song! Another paragraph, here what I've captured: I was not touched or convinced by the Armenian legends any more, though, frankly speaking, I, as all the Austrians, did remember that there was the time when the Turks besieged Vienna and a priory sympathised with the «poor Armenians». Is this supposed to be something said by a serious researcher? Looks like his vocabulary is pretty "aromated". And he dares to affirm after all But I overcame the prejudice and preconception. Well he didn't seem to have done big efforts. They are, first of all, the «official documents» forged and published in 1920 by some Aram Andoyan, and the novel of «Forty Days of Musa-dag» by Frans Verfel, that, in essence, is the interpretation of crazy inventions of Andoyan. What Adoyan got to do in this whole story? Did he resume his wok's concept about "demythisesing" Adoyan's myth. May be he should have started from German archives, or by memoirs of US ambassador Morgenthau, or by Adolf Hitler's creative works. Some hardcore stuff, he doesn't seem to me, really enjoying his sexual life. May be he was so shcked by the killing of his ambassador-friend killed in fact by armenian terrorists. But what the killing of his friend by armenian terrorists in post-WWII period has to do with events in 1915... Armenian Terrorism did exist during many years after the Genocide. And these were rather groupie actions then a nationwide movement. It is a "dark page" of Genocide Recognition movement. But excuse I can't accept connecting this to the events of 1915 and bring some defamatory information affirming that armenians have killed 2.500.000 turks. Like if we were armed by some nuclear weapons. And then we have all at once dissappered from Turkey. We killed and then we all left Turkey. Great! How delirious human brain can be! Well, let's suppose we made up our story, but we coudn't pay Adolf Hitler to say this. We couldn't have that much money? Because we passed through deserts and then we took boats, and walked thousands of miles throught the world (in Lebanon, Iran, Syria, France, Russia, UK, USA, Canada, Argentina, Brazil) just to escape turkish police...We were terrorists. We were facing death penalty? Let's wait until Turkey abolishes death penalty, in that case we can return and ask them to forgive us... I have issued the command -- and I'll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by firing squad -- that our war aim does not consist of reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formations in readiness -- for the present only in the East -- with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians? ---------------- Source: Adolf Hitler, Obersalzberg, August 22, 1939, speech delivered by Hitler to the Supreme Commanders and Commanding Generals; as stated by Former Bureau Chief of the Associated Press in Berlin, Louis Lochner, in his book What About Germany? (New York: Dodd, Mead, & Company, 1942), p. 2. This particular language does not appear in any of the other primary source accounts of Hitler's speech ------- from the US Holocaust Museum Library http://library.ushmm.org/faqs.htm

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: Shoah is how Jewish people refer to the Holocaust. It is a word play with "There is no business like show business". Most recent and controversial book on the subject is this one: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1859847730/qid=991950083/sr=1-1/re f=sc_b_1/107-4965249-1079741://http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...4965249-1079741://http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...4965249-1079741://http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...4965249-1079741://http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...4965249-1079741://http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...4965249-1079741://http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...4965249-1079741 Beau gosse, I've found about the existence of this book three days ago, much before that I've found about the existence of another book which was written by an Israeli philospher Auron Yair. What Finkelstein had said is not new! What is special? Is that he dared to say that. He - a son of jewish survivors of Holocaust. He said alos that if it was non-jewish in his place, he would have been classified as an anti-semith. Actually jews do not realise how much they should thank this guy who saved them from another holocaust. Paradoxically most of israeli jews cannot get this book! Undeclared boycott??? May be! I was wondering what did ara mean putting this right after Checkov's citation? I feel like I didn't get his point...so I asked that question. Ara, what do you mean? [ June 07, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

Hi Beau gosse! Pretty busy heh? --- This is good news. Because from now all Turkey based website alike armenianterror.com, should be banned. Because they spread defamatory information and hatrid. Have you been there? [ June 07, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

quote:Originally posted by dragon: Ideal lover is the one who matches about 60-70% with the personality that you have in your fantasies... Dragon, sorry, I meant 100%. Less than 0,1111111111% isn't ideal anymore for me! [ June 07, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

quote:Originally posted by ara baliozian: Our leadership has known this for some time; hence, their unspoken slogan: "There is no business like shoah business." what is that, ara?

Just out of topic! Once in Paris I met a black guy Eprem who was from Ethyopia. He said there are still some few Armenians in Ethyopia. The real Ethyopians are rather metisse type, but the new generation from Lebanon is white, told he. So there are also black armenians? Well that's have nothing to do with black heritage I suppose. But in case if there are some armenians who are might be interested to know that.