nairakev

quote:Originally posted by MosJan: "ARMENTEL" DECLINES TO ACCOMPLISH THE IMPORTANT STRATEGIC PROJECT FOR ARMENIA 16.06.2001 /PanARMENIAN.Net/. "The government of Armenia has no right to demand that "ArmenTel" must lay optical cable to the south direction from Megri till iranian town Marand. This question must be decided at the level of the committee of "ArmenTel" directors," – said Nikos Georgulas, the executive manager of telecommunication monopoly of the republic, to the journalist. According to his words, "ArmenTel" has not any obligation of contract with the government of the republic concerning to this question. Georgulas mentioned that the decision about laying of optical cable to Iran could be taken only in that case if the realization of this project will bring to the company the subsidiary earnings. At the same time, according to the CAN agency, Ervand Zakarian, the minister of transportation and communication of Armenia, stated that Megri-Maranda direction must be done by "ArmenTel", and the government of Armenia insist that this project must be taken into their company's business-plan for 2001-2004. Here comes the first conflict. It's good to have a monopolist. Wha have created him? Armenian government. Who asked them to sell out 90% of stake. What idiots govern this country?

quote:Originally posted by Tornado: It is an honor as an outsider to become an Aryan Iranian. at least the aryan Iranian racists accept the outsiders and are not that racist like some 'honest'Armenians towards the outsiders. BTW take a look at this message about how the real Azeri's think: http://www.cyberiran.com/forum/?read=8853 http://www.cyberiran.com/forum/?read=8852 http://www.cyberiran.com/forum/?read=8854 [ June 16, 2001: Message edited by: Tornado ] OK. I'll have a look. Thank you, outsider aryan.

quote:Originally posted by Tornado: There is no northern Azerbaijan. This is Aran. and this was an Iranian province too, Nakhjivan signed a petition to reunite with the mainland Iran in 1918 and Shirvan/Gharabagh (Eastern part od Azerbaijan republic)and naxjevan, decided after voting in their parlement, unanimously that they want to reunite with the mainland Iran. the first attempt was frustrated by the Turks and allied who didn't let the Iranian-Nakhjivanian delagation enter the peace talks, and the second attempt was rejected by the Iranian king who wanted to maintain good relations with Russia. I know that some Armenian provocators in some Iranian aforums want to make hostility between different Iranian ethnic groups, in order to have a Fars, Kurdish alliance against Azeri's, but I should say this is very dumb of them, If Iran breakes down, then Armenia and whole transcaucasia has a problem and as one of the counterbalances falls the region would be occupied by the Turks, after the bigger Azerbaijan has concurred back Gharabagh, and concurred rest of Armenia. After this Turkey will try to accupy transcaucasia, as they see the bigger Azerbaijan as a new threat to themselves who may successfully claim Kars abd Ighdir and Erzerum, so Turkey will accupy this new state, as she sees that her counterbalance (Iran) has fallen and sees her way free.But Russia will interfere too and this may lead to the bloodiest war in transcaucasia between the US/Turkey forces and Russian/transcaucasian forces. This scenario is a nightmare, this is a warning to all those troublemaker forces. Look Tornado, your statements stink as any cheap Armenian, Iranian, Chinese, Turk or German lunatic's statements. You live in the past. Please, go to history section and talk on "all-mighty" Persian Empire. I have nothing to talk here with you since you talk about history (which one, still needs some debates) and I was refering to your megalomanis forecats on Azerbaijan 's future. You are an "iranian" "aryan" racist nothing more than that. I have really not much to offer in response to your empty and "ego-centriic" nationalist statements. Go fool youserlf alikes. Still want some interesting debate. Broke you square-headed aryan or iranian approach to the region we are talking about. What a brain-washer. oof!

quote:Originally posted by THOTH: Naira - Here is the URL for MOB - http://www.mailorderbride.net/ I could not get the realplayer video to run - I will ask them whats the buzz... The still pictures were made from outakes of one of my videos...(hardly does it justice of course). You wil not find me credited BTW (at least I hope not...I asked to remain anonymous) Yeah, Jimmy Hendriks fans..; I felt them to be I've seen some video-clps are they the ones you shot? - Petunia - Gift of the Survivor I'm gonna check more on Zappas and Tubes. Since my best machine is on reparation, I should enjoy my old Mac which runs 38-56 Kb/per hour. LOL... So no way to download anything from Napster. Anyway Napster is degraded. They succeeded to kill it. Was a cool tool. So you love older women. I think I'll be to young for you (LOL...), since I'm only 28, well may be 29 soon. But I look very young THOTH! Promise...LOL!

ara, baby! I loved this Work hard, but not too hard: you may be digging your own grave. LOL... I think you worked hard. Well, being serious. This is one of my prefered comments of yours. So dense and enourmous! Lot's of ideas. Bravo, Maestro!

quote:Originally posted by Hovik: Sorry, one question which has nothing to do with this topic: do you write in armenian at all? Thanks. Is it important to you?

quote:Originally posted by Tornado: I strongly think that the republic of Azerbaijan will be soon or late again part of Iran. I do not believe in it strongly, but I'll say it anyway. I believe that Iran will break apart after another revolution. And the Northern and Southern Azerbaijan will form a new Republic.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: ... Sinan, Akop Dilacar and many, many others. As you know, there are quite a few contemporary Turkish industrialists that are Armenian. Boghos, Sinan according to all Turkish and European sources was greek. I don't know why many armenian sources affirm that he was armenian. This is very unclear. Who is trying to cheat? [ June 14, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: I hope they don't wait long to ban you, Edward. Since this is an open forum and you don't seem to have any reservations, there is no harm in my posting this thread on MEF, is there? "You will be mine, gaa gaa..." TRose, thanks for the pictures. I loved them. Well, as I know already churches that was nothing special. But the special thing is that you went over there to capture this pics and you made them public. It's really special. I appreciate it. --- Looks like you got a "sticking junk". Well, I'm not in the position to give advices, but ignore this idiot, it will save your time and nerves. He looks pretty retarded. And I think he looks desperately for the way out. He doesn't want to live, he prefers to be kicked off. Bad...so..bad!

quote:Originally posted by aurguplu: also is there anyone out there who knows where the late herbert von karajan got his surname from? ali suat I've got know idea where did they pick the "von" title. ---- Here what says karajan.org website in his bigoraphy section: "Herbert von Karajan was born in Salzburg on 5 April 1908, the younger of two sons born to chief physician Ernst von Karajan (1868-1951) and his wife Martha, née Kosmac. His ancestors originally came from Greek-Macedonia, immigrating to the electorate of Saxony by way of Vienna. In Saxony, Georg Johann Karajannis was elevated to the nobility of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nations on 1 June 1792 by Friedrich August, Duke of Saxony. Of Herbert von Karajan‘s relatives, his great grandfather Theodor Georg von Karajan (1810-1873) distinguished himself as a historian and philologist at the Academy of Science in Vienna; he supported Mozart biographer Otto Jahn, for example, and his interest in music led him to write a paper on Joseph Haydn's first visit to London. "

Looks like Oskanyan is discovering a brand new continent? What a luck! Finally, Armenian Foreign policy opens its doors to Africa. God bless Armenia and its Foreign Policy!

YEREVAN, 13 June. /ARKA/. African countries are the key topic of foreign policy pursued by Armenia. RA Minister of Foreign Affairs Vardan Oskayan announced at today's press-conference. In 2001 Oskanyan plans to pay a visit to 3-4 large countries of South Africa. "African countries hold a great potential for co-operation, which we must try to use effectively", - the Minister said. Oskanyan also stressed that in the course of the visit the Armenian delegation intends to take part in the congress on struggle against racism, which is to be held within the framework of UNO.--0--G.D.

quote:Originally posted by THOTH:???No - not my job...just a hobby mainly (though I do some pro work-nothing you will likely ever see though)... I did at one time have a conditional job offer with Frank Zappa...but the condition (him getting a variety show on Showtime) never came to pass (cest la vie)-I would have been working with the newsman Daniel Schorr-??Let me check the URLs (don't have them right now)...also - video was initially dummied down to black & white..(shame really)...to lessen bandwith requirements...they talked about switching to/offering a color version (much better). And they are likely short clips (a small bit of what I shot). I used some interesting slow shutter and flash motion (and a variety of other) effects (and interesting angles) in some of them (again, don't remember what they used). (No MTV quick cutaways however-LOL)??I'm not a Hollywood guy per se - lived there for 5 years (Little Armenia!). Now (back) on East Coast. I enjoyed the LA scene - though my version was more underground/intimate/artsy/non-commercial than standard...etc - and I fully understand your reservations (& more), believe me I do-.very much so.. ??Himbos eh? LOL - yea - lots of those. I used to love to watch the Halloween Parade on Santa Monica blvd through West LA-such a show!And you might enjoy knowing that I have a (male) friend that plays (a young) Tina Turner in a cross-dress revue (in San Fran)...LOL...and he can belt it out! Early Ike & Tina...real blues...not her later pop... Agree though - I am more Seattle orientated in my approach/tastes I think...(and I am straight-though have no problem with gays or such- -and Bimbos are OK on the eyes-as long as I don't have to talk/listen to them-?Hm, so you're a professional video-amateur? ?I've done some Audiovision studies here in Paris as well. I was badly in love with all experimental "underground" movements in cinema and audiovision. In this area the US artists are my favourites, well most of them actually are immigrants from Europe or Australia (news to an american? LOL...).??IN VIDEO ONE OF MY MOST PREFERED CREATORS are Steina et Woody Vasulka (a czech couple settled in NY). May be you know their works. At their time they made a "sensation". Now it's called special effect made by programming and with the help "digital" filters.??In Experimental cinema I loved Ed Emschwiller, Maya Deren - great artists. ----AD----- If you are interested in some of Emschwiller's works: http://www.cfmdc.org/queryfilm.asp?section...r=Emshwiller+Ed There are many experimental video-artists of armenian heritage in Canada, Italy and Armenia. I've seen their names often while visiting different expos, festivals but I didn't have time to get close. Here is one I found on the net: Martin Bazarian http://www.cfmdc.org/queryfilm.asp?section...Bazarian+Martin But I loved the documentaries made by Artavasd Peleshian. He never considered himself as an experimentalist. But meanwhile his films are widely studied by European Film academies. He is one of other armenian directors after Parajanov got known abroad. I loved his film "We" (Menk). An outstanding documentary. You should watch, if you didn't do that yet. ---END AD-- I never liked Jonas Mekas, who is known as one of the biggest figures of american experimental cinema (Bob Dylan, Andy Warhall generation). I've seen him here in Paris during his presentation of Walden integrality.??I've seen O'Neil as well, here in Paris during his retro-projection. Very smart guy.? My professor was fond of experimental annimators. But he didn't succeed to transmit his passion for it to his students. I've shot my "long" (LOL...) feature 16mm - 13 min and then I droped my studies. You can't survive by making experimentl films? Domage!!! I don't regret though. I know one day I'll return to my prefered occupations. I had a friend who was good in sound design. He made a fantastic "sound remix" for my film where the silence was the "leitmotiv" of his work. I'm replying to few sentences you've addressed to me in another thread "essay". LOL... hope you don't mind! I am not a "mixer"....I was on the radio...playing Zappa & Eno & Hawkwind & Genesis & Pink Floyd & Gong & the Stranglers, Kate Bush, Bill Nelson/Be Bop Deluxe, King Krimson/Robert Fripp, XTC, Talking Heads, Nektar, Focus, Peter Hammil, Nina Hagen, National Health, the Groundhogs, Bonzo Dog band, Ornette Coleman, Miles Davis, Passport, Jethro Tull, Gentle Giant...I could go on and on and on (have you ever heard of many of these groups? Likely most are before your time...I do listen to new stuff to...i keep up pretty well actually). I was not very popular (and now of course am even more obscure)...but perhaps I was educational to a few (and I still turn on some "youngsters" today to hidden treasures...). Do you know the Tubes? (White punks on dope...covered by Nina Hagen (TV-Glotzer)?...ooops I devolved into music again (my first love...) In your list there are groups and solists that I know and I heard some of their works(oh, yeah, I'm not that young! LOL...) Genesis, Pink Floyd, the Stranglers, Kate Bush, Talking Heads, Nina Hagen (of course, LOL!!!), Miles Davis, Jethro Tull... That's all I've recognised in your list

quote:Originally posted by dragon: Asala started good, but then failed in the mission... when its rifle addressed to diasporan armenians, mostly against Tashnagtsoutiun. We have to wait, to know the Truth. History must say its last word. What was good in ASALA's activity? Killing ambassadors and bombing civil sites? Do you think it was good even in the name of 1.500.000 victims of Genocide? I'm surprised to know that ASALA does have an office in Yerevan. How come? When many oppostion activists were/are jailed in Armenia?

quote:Originally posted by THOTH: ...Unification...does not have to mean conformity... THOTH, baby! There is no conformity in fatality. --- P.S. Read "The Holocaust Industry" by Norman G. Finkelstein. Drop reading what critics say. Try self! [ June 14, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

[ June 13, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

I think I can agree with most everything you have said here. THOTH, Well, you see baby, I knew that some "spanking", will bring significantly positive results to our "virtual" communication. Though, honestly, I prefer our physical communication, it's more efficient... And funnier somehow. I've seen some art-work there I can be so nasty sometimes. And you my fidel "muse"! Don't call me crazy, THOTH! I never refused to spank you... If the citizens are all composed of a specific religious group I don’t see a problem in a religious based Democracy (and considering it as a Democracy). The issue, in Israel (or similar) case is IMO – are minority (religious/ethnic) groups allowed full rights – both in terms of government access (as citizens and to be elected/with political parties) and are they free from undue discrimination and ability to practice religion and to own property and such. I think that perhaps Israel has a mixed record in this – though not al bad. Most of the problems come, I think, from extremist groups who are able to influence the Government Religious Democracy? That's a funny concept! In that case how many religions should that democracy change each 30-50 years? Since democracy is something that mutates the way human being does. And do you know many religions that did mutate in the same chronological order that we did? Look when were written all those "holly" books? You do not remember the exact day of their "release"? Me either (LOL...) I know that the youngest "antiquity" turns not far from Kasbah. It's the youngest we have, honeybunny? The life is delightful! ... not tragic, indeed... I see it as apartheid to an extent – because like you have implied – those who are not Jewish are second class citizens – it is considered to be a Jewish State. I am not so confident that there will be compromise. In fact Arafat had a very good offer from Barak that could have been the basis for such – he wanted more – he gambled and he lost big time. His refusal to deal on Jerusalem opened the door for Sharon – the worst scenario for the Palestinians – IMO. I used to be an apologist for Arafat…I don’t think I am any longer THOTH, honey! I have never said such a thing "those who are not Jewish are second class citizens - it is considered to be a Jewish State". Speaking about Israel like the Jewish state, I would never say that those are not Jewish are concidered to be like "second class". The actual Israel was created in order to preserve Jewish religion (Judaism), Jewish heritage. Je wish people didn't have their own state since milleniums. It is a lot? It is a difficult ambition to carry. The Jewish culture always was inspired by the myth of "Promissed Land", the same way as many christians cultures did. But the difference of the concept splits over here: - in Jewish culture the "Promissed Land" was Israel - In Christian cultures it was mostly understood like "Heaven". I know that my interpretation are always shocking in terms of comparisons, but I like to analyse all our actuality. I'm a product of my epoque, where we are used to analyse... Kind of "Generation of analysts". I'm quite pessemist about this "hypothesis", but I do not exclude it either. The human race is going to unification. This will happen soon or late... Logicaly "unification" is something "pure", kind of a "symbioz of all great ambitions". And I'm confident that by coming to the end of the story, Judaism is living its biggest period's of mutation. The Jewish Cultural heritage as many other heritages are in eternal competition. This competition is close to the meaning that we most know - the "survival". I do not imagine the future as a result of "Destructive War of Religions", where the strongest survives. I see it in a bit more optimistic way. I imagine rather a "creative symbioz" of all fighting religions, where each religion donates the best part of it, where our concept of logical stops working the classical way. What makes feel that I should think that way. I don't know? May be the fact of the appereance of Israeli state is giving me some reason. I think the day when peace will be instored in Israel, the whole world society will have a huge "War of Religions". And that is not something "unpreviewed". By whom? Read the "holly" books. And try to be convienced by all religions at the same time? You won't advance further the second book. Because the first one will give you some strong advice to commit a suicide after the second holly book... This is called "humour noir", THOTH! Apologist for Arafat? What for? I think Arafat is a "bouc-emissaire" of the Palestinian "elite". He doesn't have that "absolute" power to make historical decesions. I disagree – there is a Palestinian threat (regardless of the dynamics of how it came into being). Young Palestinians are radicalized and many have become single minded racist religious zealots willing to sacrifice themselves against Israel. I would call this a threat. Sure – the Arab world itself is largely cowed (payoffs from the US can blunt any [for the most part originally only] half-hearted rhetoric…etc). European version: Palestinians are desperate! If they are applying to such "painful" acts as "martyr-kamikazing" - that means simply that this people are desperate! When you are desperate you have nothing to loose but your life. I think peace will only come with a reconstitution of the State of Israel which fully includes Palestinians as partners. The (legitimate) fear of Israel is the demographics…but unless they do so – IMO – they will always have bitter Palestinians at their doorstep ready to oppose them… I don't think that demography is a serious argument for Israelis to fear arab threat. The arab threat is nothing else but "hostile" niet!nicht!nein!non! to Jewish state. Point "basta"! It was yesterday. Today arabs do not mind the existence of Jewish state. Today they claim the rights to share. Sharing is the whole separate issues, that I won't discuss. But I'm agreeing with you that peace will be instored only "with a reconstitution of the State of Israel which fully includes Palestinians as partners". I agree, for once, at least! I have always spoke out as such – that to contemplate such is folly and misguided – and even if it were militarily possible (which it is not – nor will it likely ever be) – I would still oppose such – as it is just wrong! We have no right to do to innocent people what was once done to our own. (in a nutshell). We must rely on the eventual maturation of the Turkish State and people to eventually come to some accommodation (access/inclusion etc). (and one day when the concept of a nation-State is perhaps not so rigid who knows… In the mean time any talk or reconquest or hope that the UN or some such will grant lands is just a pipe dream. And will you and the other well off Armenians of the West really move to Eastern Anatolia to repopulate? I don’t think so – not in any great numbers anyway. I mean folks are streaming out of Armenia now…come now I say. And for these thoughts I have been branded by some Armenians as a nay sayer/traitor or worse…etc (some commonly call me a Jew lover as well…LOL (doesn’t bother me – I love all peoples) Oops, I agree for the second time! I knew I'm gonna make it! LOL... I have been branded by some Armenians as a nay sayer/traitor or worse…etc (some commonly call me a Jew lover as well…LOL This people are the "enemies" of Armenians. I put enemies in quotes just to mention that we do not want more enemies. We got them enough. Let's make friends! They can be everywhere...just look around! LOL... This is the best part of what you said. I lked it the most "We must rely on the eventual maturation of the Turkish Sate"...I would add also "we must equally rely on the eventual maturation of the Armenian Sate". This is again a "holly" way for knocking the balls. I really think its funny to dedicate one's life for the "eventualism" of maturation of Turks or Armenians. Let's contribute to the "maturation" itself by maturizing ourselves and the human societies in general. If we are for the "good" we should share with all...no matter where he comes from! I feel the opposite – I sympathize with both sets of peoples – very much so – for a variety of reasons….Its their leaders whom I have problem with… My purposes were addressed only to their leaders, honey! I do not work with "average citizen statistics, neither sympathise public opinion polls". I just watch each society through their leaders this is how each society reflects its everyday... ---PAUSE--- Everyday, Holliday! Holliday! Yeah, soon we got hollidays! It's still damn rainy in Paris. You told me you are a mixer. DJ mixer. Did you mix "Holliday" by Madonna? Once I've downloaded "Mojo" mixed with Michael Jackson. Such a bad taste! But it was a very creative "mauvais goût". You know DJ stuff. I love some songs only in their mixed versions. I think you should be someone who does mix. And that should be a huge pleasure! LOL... ---END PAUSE---- Yes – I too have my problems with this relationship – very much so. But I understand it fully…on the Government level. Sorry, I can't and I don't want to understand it on the Governmental level especially. If there is a Parliament, Senate or Knesset in the world, where Armenians should lobby - it is Israeli Knesset. Because what Israeli Knesset does in regard of the Armenian "cause" is purely hypocritical attitude, which betrays the image of the Jewish state and the world Jewry. You cannot expect more from "armenian" nationalist fanatics after all such a stupid conduct of Israeli government, when they say "jewish lobby" is backing the whole Turkish denialist scenario. I know that the "delirious" stories about "jewish or any other conspiracy" we heard them already. But I want to lobby the Jewish state for only one reason. It is the State where almost each citizen came from elsewhere in the world and each of them carries on the shoulders the pain of humiliating "antisemithism" and "extermination". The State which symbolises a new attitude in our whole modern epouque because of its birth after the recent genocide of Jewry, its extermination from Europe. I just want to make my reasoning around one simple but long question "Why the state of Israel does not Recognise the Genocide of Armenians?" I don't think that there will be many answers. I am giving the first one, and I let you do the rest: "Because it is convinced that the extermination of European Jewry was a "unique" genocide in human history and it cost a lot of blood!" It was the most fascistic answer. I hope your are going to be more human. I understand your specific position of Israel (holding it to a higher standard) – and I share this. However, the US and other western nations also are tight with Turkey. Should not they also be condemned? I think we are mixing something. If we take countries which can be "condemned" than the US will take the "Oscar" for the best screenplay. The US scenario works very well in both Turkey and Israel. In the US there is a all-mighty Jewish community which has enourmous power on White house. You should learn the Jewish American Lobby functioning. There is a book which will give you a very interesting view on American Jewish Lobby, sort of a "true story" from insider - "The Holocaust Industry" by Norman G. Finkelstein In France there is a very powerful Jewish Lobby, but it did loose against the Armenian lobby. Loosing? - I'm using the "correct" word. "Loosing", because the French Jewish elite in France never had any positive reaction to the Armenian "cause". The worst is that many thinkers and theoritians of denialist ligue were "researchers" of jewish origin. Pretty funny conicidence. I know many Jews here in Paris, whith whom I do work and live in the neighbourhood where jews are living during centuries. Many of them are just smiling when I'm saying what I'm telling here! Some agree by smiling, some think that I'am antisemith. If I was antisemith, I would have invited in that case only French, Russians, Iranians or Armenians. But I do not have Armenians around me, and I do friends with jews, iranians and french, of course. And I do not miss any friend because he was Armenian...Hm! So stupid! I think that we have to learn a lot from Jewish heritage, but with precaution do not become copycating in evry possible "errors". There is no perfect human experiences on this earth. Most of worst experiences were possible because some thought that it existed. The perfect - were them. And what do you do when you are really perfect? ----- Well I'll stop there. However, you didn't tell me why you did recognise John Frusciante butt though you didn't have any close experience On the picture I coudn't see butt, it was so distant, far [ June 13, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

quote:Originally posted by Hovik: Yes I know I have been in their college in Istanbul Hovik!!! Hovik!!! Are trying to have fun, man?

quote:Originally posted by THOTH: Naira - in this case I use Israel as an illustrative example of extreme distortions of the policies of a government based upon the undue influence of minority (extreme) coalition partners. Certainly most Eurpean Governments suffer from this to a much lesser extent..though it can be a factor. I never claimed that Israel was a European nation (though perhaps from the Arab perspective Israel could be thought of as the Crusades part 2, seven centuries later...) I find it interesting that you wish to distance Israel from Europe in this instance (and warn away from the Jewish example in a previous post)...LOL...I understand your reticence and I too have problems with Israeli style Apartheid (otherwise called Zionism) and extreme reactions to the Palestinian/Arab "threat". We must understand though - Israel is a representative Democracy (largely of the Jewish subset) and does contain a divergence of opinion on these issues - it is not monolithic in view. I know/have known Israeli's who are very opposed to Israeli settlement, retribution and other policies vis a vis the Palestinians. And not every American suffers from saddle sores you know...etc. THOTH, baby! Israel is considered by Europeans as a non-european democracy. It is not my caprice. But most of Europeans think that Israel while being a democratic society - has a "deep" inclination to religious movements. Though being a secular society the religious presence in israeli democracy is a undevisible "reality". So I cannot consider a society to be democratic while religious influence domintaes social values. Which is not the case in Europe (exept may be Portugal, Ireland and Italy). But again there is nothing to compare even with those strongly influenced by religion european democracies. I thought you brought the example on Israel to demonstrate the controversies of European political picture as far as we were discussing about the US and the Europe. But now, It's much clear, after you explained your example. Israel is not in an easy situation. I don't think it's an apartheid society, but may be too "religious". Meanwhile the biggest dilema of Israeli society is that it does elect governers who do not ease their situation. Pardoxicaly, Israelis want the protection and peace, and they vote for a government which seeks militarism and colonization of palestinian territories. There is no realistic compromise, but a huge tension and deadly confrontation in this region. After all I'm sure that compromise will be found shortly. I don't think there is a Palestinian threat. Palestinians were living there during centuries and they were forced to leave their home when the state of Israel was established in 1949. The only reapproach that one can make to the arab world is their hostility against the existence of the Jewish state and the resistence to recognise it in the beginning. But today after many years of war, I think Israel really doesn't meet serious resistance from the Arab world. The Israeli state is mostly recognised. Now the next step is to define borders and return palestinian refugees and of course to stop colonization of occupied territories. I'm just so simply and easily distributing solutions, you see Majority of Israeli Jewish will affirm that the war against arab world is a "true" one. They will affirm that they only want to return what they consider to be their historic motherland. It is understandable, but not realistic...Sorry! Do you imagine if now diasporan armenians will aim to get back their historic lands in the Eastern Turkey, which they were forced to abandon 86 years ago? What a disastrous idea! I do not sympathise any participant in Israeli and Arab war. I think there is so much hatrid between them, that I refuse to side any type "good" and "true" hate. Hate is hate! I'm not supportive of any hatrid! Why Israel is not a democratic country? While being participant in a bloody war against arabs it does choose partners which have a pretty fat "criminal" past. I can't accept Israel having good "sweet" relations with Turkey, because it is the only option for this state. It is too ugly to justify that Israel needs vitaly some partners in the region. Israeli government knows very well what does represent in reality the Modern Turkish Government and political institutions (it's post-Ottoman junta dressed like Brittish Queen. Sort of camuflated in european look miltary democraZy). Israel Knows what happened in the past of the Ottoman Turkey and it does everything to side Turkey in its denialist policy towards Armenian Genocide. I call it regional "conformism". Some will say it's politics. In that case I'd say it's dirty politics BTW!!! You cannot side openly Turkish state's denialist position and ask reparations from ex-nazi Germany. It's nothing else but hypocrisy in its ugliest appereance! Israel is far from being a democracy. It's a quazi-millitalitarist and quazi-mono-religious society tied by the existential war with its neighbours. Though being well-organised and economicaly developed, Israel stays suburbian "democracy" where the rights are distributed selectively.

John is facing away from us...not that I would recognize his butt per se...LOL After so many years, you did recognise his butt. LOL... Which I find very delicious. Dweezil Zappa Who are they? ------- What about you? What do you play? What type of music?

THOTH, baby! I'm not going to ask you what do you do for living! LOL... Just give me your web URLs, I'm deadly curious about your art-work, videoshots and all the stuff you did. Is it a lot asking? If you don't want public, go private. Mail me, THOTH, I promise, there won't be any spank sessions, honey! Though being Hollywood guy, you sound more SF or wait ... better Seatle boy. You don't look to have bad tastes, like folks in LA do. I hate LA Bimbos, they're so digistingly eye-catching. Yack! But I liked LA himbos, lots of good male chicks

quote:Originally posted by THOTH: ...Israeli situation ... THOTH, baby! I agree with you. In the US and in the Europe as well, democratic institutions work better than elsewhere in the World. The way citizens get in touch with their representatives is an example. True it's sometimes very easy to contact them and to have a response. That's true... --- Talking about Europe, I meant EU or let's say the Western Europe. Israel is far away from the European tradition, I don't think it can be considered as a european democracy, though Israel (Mid East country) takes part in annual EuroVision Song Contest, but not Armenia or Azerbaijan, which participate in many activities of the Council of Europe and soccer teams play in European Soccer Championships. I don't mind Israel's participation in EuroVision song Contest or even Soccer championship, but I would mind it be considered as a european democracy cause it is not.

Hovik, I was right about Mekhitarist congregation being of Roman-Catholic Branch. So it has nothing to do with the Armenian Apostolic Church. Here what Britanica says on Mekhitarists: Mechitarist also spelled Mekhitarist , member of Congregation of Benedictine Armenian Antonine Monks a congregation of Roman Catholic Armenian monks, widely recognized for their contribution to the renaissance of Armenian philology, literature, and culture early in the 19th century and particularly for the publication of old Armenian-Christian manuscripts. The congregation, whose constitution is based on the Rule of St. Benedict, was founded in Constantinople (now Istanbul) in 1701 by the Armenian priest Mekhitar Petrosian of Sivas. Driven from Constantinople in 1703, the Mechitarists moved to Modon in Morea (1703–15) and finally settled in 1717 on the island of San Lazzaro, Venice, which was given to them by the Venetian state. This community, known as the Ordo Mechitaristarum Venetiarum, argued over a revised constitution set up by Abbot Stephen Melkonen, and in 1772 a group of dissidents left Venice for Trieste, establishing a separate branch (Ordo Mechitaristarum Vindobonensis) in Vienna (c. 1810). The Armenian Academy at San Lazzaro, which was set up in Rome by the Venetian Mechitarists in the early 19th century, quickly became a centre of Armenian learning. The academy introduced the scientific and literary journal Pazmaveb in 1843, pioneered a dictionary of the Armenian language (1836), and continues to publish many classics and original works of scholarship in Armenian. The Venetian branch of the congregation maintains five religious houses, two colleges, and four schools, as well as the publishing house. The Viennese Mechitarists are active missionaries. They worked among the Armenians under the Austro-Hungarian Empire and established parishes in Budapest, Cambridge (Mass.), and Los Angeles. Their motherhouse in Vienna incorporates a school, library, museum of ancient Armenian art, and a publishing house that issues Handés Amsorya (1887), a journal of Armenian philology. They also run colleges in Istanbul and Beirut. the Source Britanica.com http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=52993&tocid=0

quote:Originally posted by Tornado: Naira , you are generally right. The Kurdish awareness rose only after the Armenian genocide. In fact the Kurdish intellectuals immitatde the Armenian intellectuals. Also many Kurds took the side of the Turks in the murdering. However you shouldn't forget something. The murderes, were either Hamidiye Kurds, these were irregular army created by the Sultan Abdulhamid to terrorize eastern Anatolia, or were from Tashkilati mahsusya, these were criminals in the prisons, who were recruted for murder, in exchange of freedom.. These Hamidye members were from certain tribes. The kurds still say that those tribes and clans who helped the Turks at that time and murdered the Armenians are still supporting the Turkish fascists for murdering the Kurds. The Bulk of the Kurds was not involved in the pro-Turkish activities. In fact many Kurdish families saved the Armenian children, by adopting them so no one could know they are Armenian, some grown up Armenians were also saved by the Kurds. for example some kurdish village chiefs said that they will protect their Armenian peasants against the murderes and rallied agianst the Hamidiye and Tashkilati Mahsusya murderes. The Kurds are getting more attaention, because they are a larger group I think. So the picture here is not that black and white again. Tornado, are you sure that I said something like that. You are refering to something that I have no idea. I don't seem to say anything to what you refer in your reply! Sorry! Check again my messages, if your message is a reply to one of mines.

quote:Originally posted by Hovik: The last tsar Nikola isn't he a good example to that may be you can tell us... Hovik, I don't feel like talking on monarchies. I thought you understood what I've said previously. If I think that democrasy is the best but not the perfect option for a society, so how can I look for solutions in monarchy. Monarchy is in the past.... it's gone. It doesn't exist for me. So no really motivation to talk about it. I think the British and the Dutch suffer because of their monarchies, but should they follow the Russian way. Unhead their monarchs? Hehe? Very bolshevik idea? No to monarchism, Hovik! Let's talk about the democracy in Armenia. You turn is the second ... Two rows. First row - what's good. Second row - what's bad. So my trun! What's good - the right to elect. What's bad - the death penalty. t should be abolished. ---------- Your turn! [ June 13, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]